Hong Kong has the Octopus card which is basically a debit touch card that is good for the mass transit but also works at some c-stores.That's sick! I wish Apple pay would be available for use on transit systems.

I really like the idea of incorporating it with Keep It Local. And if you want, you could easily work with OnCue for a Keep It Local promotion (a free fountain drink for every $30 you spend in gas or merchandise?), and that way people all over the Metro would be incentivized to own a Keep It Local card and then could use it on all future transit.

This might be a dumb question, but do we know yet if the streetcar system will be compatible with the current Embark bus passes? (Alternatively, if they want to go to a touch debit card system for the busses and the streetcar, that would be preferable to the current mag stripe paper passes Embark uses...)

I've had an exciting opportunity the past few months to ride a number of streetcar systems throughout different cities in Europe and see how these fare systems are implemented. All of them rely on the honor system in some way or another, but some are a lot more easily abused than others. Just a few examples...

In Amsterdam, riders have transit cards that they tap on contactless payment readers as they enter and exit the tram. Paper cards with embedded RFID chips were issued at ticketing kiosks at each station for riders without passes. You could enter only at the front but exit at any other door (there were exceptions to this rule in really busy areas).

In Berlin, if you didn't have a monthly/weekly pass, then you purchased tickets at kiosks outside the train or on the train itself. The kiosks on the trams were a bit old school and only accepted coins, and the fare was selected from a number of physical buttons on the tram kiosk. Once you have a paper ticket, you validate your fare by having your paper ticket stamped by small machines throughout the train upon entering. You could enter and exit at any door. Fare inspectors periodically do spot checks but I never saw any.

In Prague the entire transit system (subway, tram, and bus) operates as it does in Berlin. The validation machines for the metro are upon entering the station rather than the vehicles themselves. You could also purchase the tickets digitally via an app. An inspector checked everyone's tickets the first time I rode, and I saw a local who had to pay the fine (about 32x the normal fare) on the spot.

In Dublin, you either purchased tickets outside the tram at a kiosk at the station, or you had a pass. Pass holders were supposed to tap their cards on contactless kiosks upon arrival at their beginning and ending stations. Ticket holders did not have to validate in any way. Definitely the most liberal use of the honor system of all the trams I've been on.

I've been to more places than this, but all have used systems pretty closely resembling the ones I just talked about. It's been obvious to me during this time that, the more you rely on an honor system, the more efficient your passenger loading/unloading goes. There's just as many ways to implement fare schemes as well, with some cities using a distance-zone system (Berlin), some using a time limit system (Prague), and some allowing for unlimited travel per fare (Dublin, Amsterdam). Trams are a really popular form of transportation in Europe it seems, and it's been fun getting to see what we're going to have in OKC in the future. Part of what makes the system work so well alongside vehicle traffic in Europe is the use of dedicated lanes for tram and public bus traffic. I really hope people embrace the system in OKC, but I don't think it will become hugely popular until it is faster and more convenient than driving a car.

That's sick! I wish Apple pay would be available for use on transit systems.

This is the case in London, and not just for the Tube (subway). All local and regional mass transit can be paid for with an Oyster card, OR you can pay with Apple Pay. The coolest part is that you can pay per ride, but if you go over the equivalent of what a day pass would've cost, then your rates are capped. Even paying for a bunch of individual rides in one day won't put you over the daily rate! It's so cool.

I've had an exciting opportunity the past few months to ride a number of streetcar systems throughout different cities in Europe and see how these fare systems are implemented. All of them rely on the honor system in some way or another, but some are a lot more easily abused than others. Just a few examples...

In Amsterdam, riders have transit cards that they tap on contactless payment readers as they enter and exit the tram. Paper cards with embedded RFID chips were issued at ticketing kiosks at each station for riders without passes. You could enter only at the front but exit at any other door (there were exceptions to this rule in really busy areas).

In Berlin, if you didn't have a monthly/weekly pass, then you purchased tickets at kiosks outside the train or on the train itself. The kiosks on the trams were a bit old school and only accepted coins, and the fare was selected from a number of physical buttons on the tram kiosk. Once you have a paper ticket, you validate your fare by having your paper ticket stamped by small machines throughout the train upon entering. You could enter and exit at any door. Fare inspectors periodically do spot checks but I never saw any.

In Prague the entire transit system (subway, tram, and bus) operates as it does in Berlin. The validation machines for the metro are upon entering the station rather than the vehicles themselves. You could also purchase the tickets digitally via an app. An inspector checked everyone's tickets the first time I rode, and I saw a local who had to pay the fine (about 32x the normal fare) on the spot.

In Dublin, you either purchased tickets outside the tram at a kiosk at the station, or you had a pass. Pass holders were supposed to tap their cards on contactless kiosks upon arrival at their beginning and ending stations. Ticket holders did not have to validate in any way. Definitely the most liberal use of the honor system of all the trams I've been on.

I've been to more places than this, but all have used systems pretty closely resembling the ones I just talked about. It's been obvious to me during this time that, the more you rely on an honor system, the more efficient your passenger loading/unloading goes. There's just as many ways to implement fare schemes as well, with some cities using a distance-zone system (Berlin), some using a time limit system (Prague), and some allowing for unlimited travel per fare (Dublin, Amsterdam). Trams are a really popular form of transportation in Europe it seems, and it's been fun getting to see what we're going to have in OKC in the future. Part of what makes the system work so well alongside vehicle traffic in Europe is the use of dedicated lanes for tram and public bus traffic. I really hope people embrace the system in OKC, but I don't think it will become hugely popular until it is faster and more convenient than driving a car.

The convention center is the unknown variable RE ridership, but as far as residents of the metro area, it will be a long while before you routinely have 10+ people getting on the tram at any given point in time. Perhaps convention goers should be allowed to use the tram for free if they flash their badge (possibly at a small premium charged to the convention). Otherwise, I don't think there should be much emphasis on an honor system in order to increase boarding efficiency at this point.

This is the case in London, and not just for the Tube (subway). All local and regional mass transit can be paid for with an Oyster card, OR you can pay with Apple Pay. The coolest part is that you can pay per ride, but if you go over the equivalent of what a day pass would've cost, then your rates are capped. Even paying for a bunch of individual rides in one day won't put you over the daily rate! It's so cool.

That's awesome!

In Argentina, the subway will actually give you a discount after you pass 20 trips in a month and then even further if you pass like 30 trips in a month. I just feel like if you go with a card based system, you can deliver much better benefits to your ridership. Beyond that, if you have a ticket based system like in Berlin, how much does it suck to lose your week/month pass, or to forget to renew it on a day that the fare inspector passes by.

Yeah a card based system is much better. I Beijing, Guangzhou, Seoul (?), and Shenzhen go by the same system when you get a discount when you pass a certain number of trips. The discount get's really good at one point that you basically ride for very low rate. Although I don't think OKC could get anything as good as an Oyster Card or MTR's Octopus Card.

Someone asked Steve on his chat today about the track that will be laid on EK Gaylord. He said it was going to be on the west side of the street opposite Santa Fe Station and that he couldn't explain why or what the track is for. Even though it's gonna be the first portion of track installed, isn't talked about much... Can anyone explain?

That's a great point. In many of the renderings of Santa Fe, they have the streetcar going in front of the station on that portion of EK Gaylord, but on the map of the streetcar route, it doesn't show it going in front of the station. Really confused...

The track in front of Santa Fe Station is paid for in full by the Federal Transit Administration grant that we received through MAPS 3 matching funds for the station. The goal is to move this complex from simply being a station that Amtrak utilizes to being one that is truly a Intermodal Transit Center. Essentially there are three potential streetcar stops that will ultimately service this facility.

Adding the track in front of the station provides the capacity to-

1. add the Health Sciences Center Streetcar line
2. provide operational flexibility for Red and Blue Lines about to be under construction
3. redundancy to "short-circuit" Red and Blue lines in the event of a problem on the Bricktown Loop
4. Serve future redevelopment of the existing and antiquated Cox Convention Center site

All of this is facilitated through two expensive track switches located at Sheridan/EK Gaylord and Reno/EK Gaylord. They can be activated to shift trains from one track to another by Train to Wayside Control or "TWC" via onboard actuators in the control cabs of the streetcars.

This track also allows for direct service to the CBD as future commuter trains come online without the need for every train to go through Bricktown.

The track in front of Santa Fe Station is paid for in full by the Federal Transit Administration grant that we received through MAPS 3 matching funds for the station. The goal is to move this complex from simply being a station that Amtrak utilizes to being one that is truly a Intermodal Transit center. Essentially there are three potential streetcar stops that will ultimately service this facility.

Adding the track in front of the station provides the capacity to

1. add the Health Sciences Center Streetcar line
2. provide operational flexibility for Red and Blue Lines about to be under construction
3. redundancy to "short-circuit" Red and Blue lines in the event of a problem on the Bricktown Loop
4. Serve future redevelopment of the existing and antiquated Cox Convention Center site

All of this is facilitated through two expensive track switches located at Sheridan/EK Gaylord and Reno/EK Gaylord. They can be activated to shift trains from one track to another by Train to Wayside Control or "TWC" via onboard actuators in the control cabs of the streetcars.

Awesome, thanks for the info. So is it gonna be laid in the northbound lane next to the station, or the southbound lane across the street?

will tickets be purchased at kiosks on the street and validated on the car? Also, will any currently planned route sections have dedicated lanes, or are they all in line with vehicle traffic?

1. Kiosks are planned as well as cross platform transfer and transit passes between buses and streetcars.

2. Most of the alignment is mixed with traffic with enabling GPS based traffic prioritization a number traffic lights at key intersections. The track by the park and convention center along the park is isolated and in a dedicated right of way for two blocks.

Awesome, thanks for the info. So is it gonna be laid in the northbound lane next to the station, or the southbound lane across the street?

Southbound across the street with a mid-block pedestrian crossing. Utilities have been strategically placed to allow for a future northbound track option to be installed.

Southbound across the street with a mid-block pedestrian crossing. Utilities have been strategically placed to allow for a future northbound track option to be installed.

That's great! Thanks for the clarification

great info Urban. I'm more interested in the switches than the actual track on EKG because (to me) it shows new route(s) are already being predicted and planned for. Great news.

As the the actual EKG track, wouldn't it have made more sense to build the Northbound side first (since it is immediately next to the station) than the Southbound since Cox will get torn up/redeveloped rendering the southbound stop/track unusable during said period.?

great info Urban. I'm more interested in the switches than the actual track on EKG because (to me) it shows new route(s) are already being predicted and planned for. Great news.

As the the actual EKG track, wouldn't it have made more sense to build the Northbound side first (since it is immediately next to the station) than the Southbound since Cox will get torn up/redeveloped rendering the southbound stop/track unusable during said period.?

The southbound track was preferred due to the circulation of the starter lines- east on Sheridan and West on Reno. Going south on EK Gaylord is the most functional. Keep in mind that this track is not slated to be regularly used for the Red and Blue lines to start. The stops on Sheridan and Reno accessed through the Santa Fe Station Pedestrian Tunnel to the backside of the facility will be the primary stops servicing the station for the next few years. Adding additional streetcar lines, modifying how the "main line" operates, or greater and expanded use of Santa Fe Station will affect how quickly that stop enters frequent service.

The old Cox site as well. Presumably that asset might be a redevelopment opportunity in the future. I have heard both a desire to keep it as part of our overall convention center sqf offerings or as a placeholder for a large corporate relocation or expansion. Who knows what the future will bring.

The Oklahoma City Council voted Tuesday to formally select Herzog/Stacy and Witbeck to install the rail for the Oklahoma City Streetcar.

Construction is set to begin in January. The OKC Streetcar, which will connect downtown to Bricktown and other districts in the urban core, is funded by the MAPS 3 Modern Streetcar/Transit project.

The Herzog/Stacy and Witbeck bid totals about $50 million, which is about $7 million lower than the projected construction budget.

“The work our residents will start seeing as construction begins is the first step to building a modern, intermodal public transit system for downtown Oklahoma City,” Mayor Mick Cornett said. “The MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board, the streetcar subcommittee, City staff and consultants have put in years of hard work on this project, and it will be exciting to see the finished product.”

Installation of the rail and other infrastructure should take about two years. Brookville Equipment Corporation is building the modern streetcars.

The OKC Streetcar will operate on rails flush with the street in regular traffic lanes, just like a bus or a car. Each streetcar has a driver who follows the same speed limits and traffic signals as other vehicles. Keep an eye out for streetcars when driving, crossing streets on foot and before opening your car door when parking on the street.

Lane and street closures will affect downtown-area traffic during construction.

William Crum's article about the contract being awarded.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5528142?embargo_redirect=yes

How do streetcars interact with intersections and traffic signals? Do traffic signals prioritize approaching streetcars?

I accidentally asked this in the wrong thread, so here it is in the right place: Has final engineering been completed to determine how the streetcar will traverse the traffic circle at 10th and Walker? Is it planned for the streetcar to simply cut through the center of the circle? I am fairly sure that streetcars would be too big to negotiate the circle in the regular lane of traffic...

I accidentally asked this in the wrong thread, so here it is in the right place: Has final engineering been completed to determine how the streetcar will traverse the traffic circle at 10th and Walker? Is it planned for the streetcar to simply cut through the center of the circle? I am fairly sure that streetcars would be too big to negotiate the circle in the regular lane of traffic...

I answered you in the other thread, but the plans show the streetcar using the traffic lane rather than cutting through the center. keep in mind that the portion of tenth that is connected to the roundabout is angled southwest which is prolly why this will work.

How do streetcars interact with intersections and traffic signals? Do traffic signals prioritize approaching streetcars?

We have a line item budgeted in our program for GPS actuated Traffic Signalization Prioritization. It is unknown if this will be installed at every traffic signal or just some key intersections that we know are going to definitely cause delays. Example would be the 4th and Broadway intersection. There will be an extensive "testing phase" once the construction is completed lasting two to three months. In this phase, we will be able to determine if we have problems at intersections and need to install the GPS actuators. Money is at hand to do all of the intersections if need be. Some intersections will also be triggered by a different technology called Train to Wayside Control or "TWC". This is applied at intersections using RFID to enable special lane changes, protected turns, and switching.

I answered you in the other thread, but the plans show the streetcar using the traffic lane rather than cutting through the center. keep in mind that the portion of tenth that is connected to the roundabout is angled southwest which is prolly why this will work.


That is correct. Only a minor modification will need to be made to perimeter curb to allow the track to make a semi radius to navigate the roundabout. It is very nearly a straight shot within the travel lane.

Ross and UP, thank you for the info! After looking at that traffic circle in Google Maps, that makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking.

So has a firm date been set yet for Herzog to start their work installing the rail? Last I've heard is just a generic "2017".

What kind of speeds are the streetcars going to travel at? I don't care, but I could see people getting pissed if it is going 10 mph under the speed limit.

What kind of speeds are the streetcars going to travel at? I don't care, but I could see people getting pissed if it is going 10 mph under the speed limit.

My experience with them in Portland is the frequency of stops (which allows people to pass on the left) as well as the infrequency of service (at 10 minute headways there will only be a streetcar on any given street 6 times per hour. The odds you are behind one are fairly small. No different than your odds of being behind a city bus or a delivery truck. Most of the time you will not interact with one, and when you do they are not terrible to be behind.

What kind of speeds are the streetcars going to travel at? I don't care, but I could see people getting pissed if it is going 10 mph under the speed limit.

I'm certain I recall UP saying they would travel the same speed as the speed limit for autos so figuring 25mph.

What kind of speeds are the streetcars going to travel at? I don't care, but I could see people getting pissed if it is going 10 mph under the speed limit.

15 - 30mph. They are capable of traveling at 45. Ironically, with signal prioritization at some of the worst spots downtown, I would not be surprised if some people follow streetcars to get through traffic lights. I know I will. It will be fun to know what the system is automatically going to do and how it is programmed to do it. Inside perk I guess until others pick up on the patterns. lol Small comps for sitting through hundreds of meetings.

How are traffic lights going to be programmed? Particularly at the Boulevard, Reno, and Sheridan where traffic lights currently favor cars going east-to-west.

How are traffic lights going to be programmed? Particularly at the Boulevard, Reno, and Sheridan where traffic lights currently favor cars going east-to-west.
Spartan, please see post 6503.

Got it, thanks LJ. Was just asking due to the situation down in Cincinnati, where the signals have wreaked havoc on operating the streetcar. Daily ridership is down to under 2,000 and the anti-streetcar media (which even includes Planetizen, City Lab, Atlantic, Vox, in addition to local media) is having a field day with it.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5531422

This was posted elsewhere, reposting here because:


Some improvements are coming soon, thanks to the city's public works department and MAPS 3. The new traffic lights, which will include pedestrian signals, are being added as part of the upcoming construction of a streetcar system that will travel most of the length of Automobile Alley. Eric Wenger, director of public works, also reports the traffic lights along Broadway will be re-timed to better coincide with the streetcar schedule.

Has construction started on this? I saw on Bricktown's twitter they had to move the parklett off Sheridan due to streetcar construction.

kicks off next week

The MAPS 3 Streetcar Groundbreaking Ceremony will be held-

Tuesday, February 7th, at 1:30 PM outside of the Melting Pot Restaurant on Sheridan in Bricktown.

Will this thing run on Sundays once operational?

Will this thing run on Sundays once operational?

Think it's too early for the city to make that decision.

Seattle and Portland have Sunday service on their streetcar routes. Maybe we will try to be cool like them.

Honestly, I think it will be very important for the streetcar to be operational all week for the general public to see the streetcar as a worthwhile (and successful) investment. I think most downtown residents and workers will quickly see the streetcar's utility, but for those residents of OKC that only come downtown on the weekend, they need to see (and be able to use) Sunday service for it to make sense to them.

Especially as it facilitates safe Sunday Fundays.

Seattle and Portland have Sunday service on their streetcar routes. Maybe we will try to be cool like them.

I hope so!

Groundbreaking is February 7th, so what is the latest estimated date of completion for the entire line?

FYI I believe construction begins today despite the Feb 7 groundbreaking. Happy Streetcar Day, OKC!

Is there anyway we can get the OP updated with all of the latest information, estimates, renderings, etc.?

FYI I believe construction begins today despite the Feb 7 groundbreaking. Happy Streetcar Day, OKC!

Boring photos, but Yaay!:
1343513436

Over on a different thread the tearing up of streets three times post P180 was discussed, but it almost seems worse to put in rails without having re-done the streets as it seems like that would cause even more problems in the future...

Bricktown has been overdue on redoing streetscape for a decade now. I would rather the streetcar get implemented now into the crappy streets than delay the streetcar any further.

Plus, the expanded loop in front of Santa Fe will likely be complete by the time Bricktown gets new streets, and the streetcar can circumvent Bricktown entirely during construction and still be relatively close via pedestrian tunnel.

Valid. Didn't mean to imply at all that it would be better to wait for bricktown streetscape re-doing. Definitely want streetcar sooner rather than later. Was just offering a counter-argument to the complaint of tearing up P180 streets. And strictly for academic conversation, not to start anything.

Noticed tonight all the construction cones and vehicles are gone on Sheridan. Does anybody know why?

They are already redesigning some of it because surprise they are running in to things that weren't drawn on the plans. The local contractors working could keep it moving but Jacobs wants to redraw plans. Expect to see work pick back up Tuesday

You probably don't want crews spinning their wheels while changes are pending.

Not what I meant. Sometimes things can be done in the field to move things along and keep workjng, but engineers get paid to draw things so take from that what you will.

Not what I meant. Sometimes things can be done in the field to move things along and keep workjng, but engineers get paid to draw things so take from that what you will.

Engineers don't "draw things". Draftsmen draw things. Engineers solve problems and design things to do that.

Engineers don't "draw things". Draftsmen draw things. Engineers solve problems and design things to do that.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you Mr. Engineer. My opinion of some (not all) engineers is that they do not do enough of what you say they do.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you Mr. Engineer. My opinion of some (not all) engineers is that they do not do enough of what you say they do.

Yep. As an engineer, I agree. :)

Yep. As an engineer, I agree. :)

Wait, how many engineers do we have on this board?

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you Mr. Engineer. My opinion of some (not all) engineers is that they do not do enough of what you say they do.

Didn't offend me....I'm not an engineer. Just pointing out that if it is going back to engineering it is not just for re-documenting something, it is going that way to fix a problem.

"Engineering is the application of mathematics and scientific, economic, social, and practical knowledge in order to invent, innovate, design, build, maintain, research, and improve structures, machines, tools, systems, components, materials, processes, solutions, and organizations."

At this point, I bet they are going back to draw/document what the contractor has already proposed as a working solution for in the field.

Wait, how many engineers do we have on this board?

Way too goddam many.