Here's the photo:

https://scontent-dft4-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e35/14241084_1111827002205322_1821493166_n.jpg

Awesome!

^^^^
I heard about this on channel 5. By the way I love how KOCO references this site so often.

Are there any detailed maps showing which side of the street the track will be ran? I have asked business owners on Broadway (admittedly, not all of them) and have found no-one that knows. They don't know if they are losing their parking spots, or the other side is.
I have worked off N Broadway for 25+ years, and until my retirement will have to use alternate routes.

The streetcar should flow with traffic so it will always be on the right side of the road depending on the direction it is moving. The map earlier in the thread shows the direction the streetcar will go

UP or someone else involved, can you explain why the tracks on Broadway will be on the side of the street instead of in the middle? I'm sure there was solid reasoning behind it, but it seems like a huge missed opportunity.

Elimination of unneeded redundant southbound lane, introduction of turn lane on top of track center alignment, preservation of angled parking spots, pedestrian refuge islands in middle of street, all seem like compelling reasons. Broadway seems like the best (only?) opportunity for this. Sorry, I'm sure it has been explained before, but I've missed it if so.

I believe the reason to be because the streetcar path is not its own right-of-way. The ROW is the street which pre-exists, therefore, the tracks have to run with the flow of traffic in the outermost lane.

OKCisOK4me is generally right. In short, there was resistance to center island median stops. The way the streetcar track alignment is designed is generally in difference to the Public Works Department and the Auto Alley Association.

Public Works wants to move traffic and AA wants parking. The streetcar supposedly will contribute less to traffic congestion by pulling to the curbside portion of the street. As the street is currently designed, that is probably a fair statement.

As a new urbanist myself, I think that Rand Elliot's design should be completely scrapped and the entire stretch redesigned. As it stands this particular street is a hodgepodge of his aesthetically designed influence, the desire by merchants for free parking, the resistance to "back in" parking by Public Works, historical inferences that keep people doggedly committed to a 80' vehicular right-of-way for some reason, and then some traffic models that Public Works says dictates the lane locations.

In short, it's a mess. The streetcar though will make the street more pedestrian friendly and help enable more folks to enter and leave the district without needing a car.

I think the curbside alignment is fine. It is unobtrusive and the impacts to parking were carefully evaluated and generally avoided. A complete street redesign has not been in the cards due to the political machinations of these deferent influences and even if that were enabled the funds do not currently exist to facilitate it.

Remember, there were people so opposed to streetcar on Broadway that we literally threatened to shift the alignment solely to Robinson or Hudson. Auto Alley members voted in majority that they wanted it. Those political forces against it lost out.

Unfortunate, I think. I'm obviously no longer involved with the Autmobile Alley district, but I for one would have made a strong case for the center island median stops. Makes way more sense, and probably there more than anywhere in the system.

Regarding the street design, it is not entirely accurate to describe it as "Rand Elliot's." His firm DID commit to paper the design of it, and he has been a tireless advocate of the design; specifically the stamped medallion intersections. But the ideas for that design came from the "Team 2" meetings driven by Ron Norick after the bombing, which re-imagined the district in the wake of the destruction. It was attended by City officials, state officials, representatives of the Urban Land Institute, Automobile Alley stakeholders and volunteers from throughout the community and even the state.

I'm not speaking for him, but I think Rand views himself as the caretaker of a community-driven vision for that neighborhood that came from a very important and difficult time in the city's history. I see lots of really crappy comments here and elsewhere suggesting his protective behavior when it comes to Automobile Alley is ego-based, but - knowing the guy pretty well and having had lots of conversations with him about it - I can assure you that is NOT where his actions arise from in this case.

We're just going to have to disagree about Rand. It is my personal opinion that pedestrians in his designs are not a primary consideration. The "stamped" medallion intersections are THE absolute prime example. Thanks for pointing that out! lol Where the street really should be narrower to allow a shorter distance for pedestrians to cross, instead, the huge form of the circle forces the intersections to be the same width as the vehicular zones. This is entirely driven by aesthetics. The rough form of the stampings makes it almost impossible for people with wheelchairs or walkers to cross in those areas. They are really cool to look at from a 10+ story building or an airplane though. lol

I do agree with you that he thinks of himself as a caretaker. How much of that is community-driven and how much of that is his ego is for others to debate. I respect his talent and appreciate a great many buildings he has designed. That doesn't mean he is right on all matters. Pedestrian scale seems to be the big one.

And, as I recall, it is these stamped concrete medallions that were partially a driving force behind not having center island stops. The logical location for these stops, at intersections, would have infringed upon the stamped concrete circles. It wasn't the primary driver, but it was a significant aesthetic driver in the curbside design location decision of the streetcar. And from what I recall, Rand was vocal in these recent arguments leading up to that decision as well.

We're just going to have to disagree about Rand. It is my personal opinion that pedestrians in his designs are not a primary consideration. The "stamped" medallion intersections are THE absolute prime example...

I never said anything about pedestrians being a primary consideration of his. They obviously are not, and this is a place where I tend to be at odds with him. So, not sure what we are disagreeing about.

But again, the symbolic stamped medallions came from Team 2 brainstorming sessions; not specifically from Rand. It was obviously a time when OKC was much less-attuned to pedestrian issues, and it shows. I agree that the design should be revisited.

And by the way, with careful retrofit the stamped medallions could peacefully coexist with curb extensions or center islands. Tracks would not be that different from existing seams/sawcuts. And you are correct that the stamped concrete currently lives in the space where crosswalks SHOULD be. This causes accessibility issues that at some point will have to be addressed by the City. It seems to me like streetcar construction would be the appropriate time to do so, but what do I know?

It seems to me like streetcar construction would be the appropriate time to do so, but what do I know?

Agreed. There aren't funds in the streetcar project for this sort of massive corridor overhaul but I wish there were.

All good on all of your other points friend. And thanks for the historical context regarding the "Team 2" group.

An update by William Crum on the companies competing to operate our system.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5520178

ODOT and OKC intersect with streetcar plans

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 28, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – As work on the new boulevard downtown nears completion, state and Oklahoma City officials are finding their schedules intersecting at the MAPS 3 streetcar route.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation plans to release the former Interstate 40 crosstown to City Hall in January, department spokeswoman Brenda Perry said. After I-40 was realigned closer to the Oklahoma River almost four years ago, ODOT began working with City Hall to lower the road to grade and rebuild it as a main artery through the Core to Shore redevelopment area.

As that project nears completion, City Hall is also preparing to lay rail for a $131 million streetcar route through downtown, one of several projects under the MAPS 3 sales tax. Following feedback from businesses and civic leaders in the area, City Hall decided on a 4.5-mile route to link to a new convention center near the boulevard.

The rail will be laid in rights of way, not the street itself. However, those areas are also held by ODOT.

“It looks like our project needs to be complete so the streetcar can function properly,” Perry said. “We are working very closely with the city. All along the process, we’ve been trying to avoid them (city crews) being at the exact same location so that we’re not in each other’s way for safety reasons and ease of work.”

“We’re really trying to make that happen – get in there and out – so we can let the city do its work,” she said.

In a recent MAPS 3 pre-bid meeting for the streetcar, city officials suggested possible conflicts between overlapping schedules of the state and city. The streetcar corridor will not be available until November 2017, city officials said at the meeting, and the Bricktown loop part of the line must be completed for testing in March the next year, leaving only four months to complete a critical section of the route near the new boulevard.

A reference during the city committee meeting also highlighted the need for coordinating pavement joints at the boulevard-Hudson Avenue intersection with the city’s design team, suggesting that crews will have to come in quickly after ODOT.

MAPS 3 project manager David Todd confirmed Tuesday that no taxpayer money will be wasted by having to backtrack on the route; once rail is laid, it will stay in place.

“The streetcar will take nearly two years to complete, and we’ve already put in the contract document that the contractor will work on that piece of the alignment last,” Todd said. “We won’t build anything there until they (ODOT crews) are finished.”

Reading between the lines here... basically no MAPS 3 taxpayer monies will be wasted but Federal tax monies appropriated to ODOT will be. "Coordinating pavement joints" and "we won't build anything until ODOT is finished" means that the City will basically be tearing up brand new concrete to install the rails across the Boulevard on Hudson.

I am glad Brian Brus got all of this on the record. The timeliness towards ODOT getting out of the way is essential to our schedule. It is just a shame that they won't let the City on the project site crossing Hudson until after the entire roadway section is completed. An rediculous waste of concrete and steel.

"The rail will be laid in rights of way, not the street itself. However, those areas are also held by ODOT."

Except where the alignment does directly completely cross the new boulevard north/south on Hudson on its way to the Maintenance Facility. A major switch is also planned at this intersection. This is PR spin from somebody trying to protect ODOT.

Reading between the lines here... basically no MAPS 3 taxpayer monies will be wasted but Federal tax monies appropriated to ODOT will be. "Coordinating pavement joints" and "we won't build anything until ODOT is finished" means that the City will basically be tearing up brand new concrete to install the rails across the Boulevard on Hudson.

I am glad Brian Brus got all of this on the record. The timeliness towards ODOT getting out of the way is essential to our schedule. It is just a shame that they won't let the City on the project site crossing Hudson until after the entire roadway section is completed. An rediculous waste of concrete and steel.
I agree it is ridiculous and wasteful for them to built and then OKC have to dig up and basically redo the sections. However on the flip side I wonder if OKC laid the track and then ODOT did their work, how badly they would manage to mess up the tracks and the project.

The Oklahoma Department of Transportation plans to release the former Interstate 40 crosstown to City Hall in January,

Gonna be tough to do when the main section through C2S hasn't even begun construction yet.

And won't be done until late 2018, right? Which is when the streetcar is supposed to get going? Something is going to have to give.

Herzog was the apparent low bidder this morning, bid was just over $48 million. They are an experienced rail contractor, built Phoenix's light rail I believe.

This is a MAJOR moment as it puts the program under budget and allows us flexibility to consider important add/alternates that improve system function and help minimize long term operational costs. Keep in mind, this was the largest contract in the streetcar and hub program.

Great job UP and the rest of the committee. Appreciate what you do.

I believe this came in over 8 mil under the budget.

https://www.okc.gov/Home/ShowDocument?id=5929

$48,906,586.61 after Alternate 1 ($50,000,586.61 base bid).

Is there a way to use the savings to ensure a future expansion? I mean if someone highly placed can go on a renegade and announce an unfunded fairgrounds arena, why not go ahead and just announce a mostly-unfunded extension up Classen and then actually seed it with the $8 million saved from Phase 1.

Then again any extra money is likely to get gobbled up by the CC.

apologies dbl

Allocate savings into betterment of the proposed shelters @ the stops.

Allocate savings into betterment of the proposed shelters @ the stops.

Or proactively buy extra spare parts for the streetcar vehicles. If the company that produces the vehicles were to ever go out of business, the city would be in a bidding war with other cities for any remaining spare parts. Also, as models evolve part commonality can erode, thus potentially leaving shortage of parts in the future.

I would propose all extra funds be used as "fare" for use of the streetcar. The longer the city can provide free access to the streetcar system the more the public will come to appreciate/rely upon it. We paid the MAPS tax, why not let it run for free for a while?

I don't know how feasible it is, but I'd support Spartan's idea of going with a line expansion for the system. The more places it reaches and the more people it services, the better it's going to be.

I would propose all extra funds be used as "fare" for use of the streetcar. The longer the city can provide free access to the streetcar system the more the public will come to appreciate/rely upon it. We paid the MAPS tax, why not let it run for free for a while?

I like this one, too.

I would propose all extra funds be used as "fare" for use of the streetcar. The longer the city can provide free access to the streetcar system the more the public will come to appreciate/rely upon it. We paid the MAPS tax, why not let it run for free for a while?

I also like this. I think the only way you get some people to ride (and I include myself in this group), is if it's free and they get to ride it a few times to see the benefit.

Perhaps I am mistaken, but it was my understanding that the streetcar was already intended to be free at first. I don't know how long the free period was supposed to be, but I am pretty sure that the streetcar will be free for a little while once it's running. I would rather see any budget surplus go into other improvements for the system, like nicer stops or laying the groundwork for a phase II expansion.

I don't think unused budget can be used for operating costs (free fares). All MAPS funds must be tied to capital improvements. I could be wrong though.

It is already slated to have free fares for the first year (or so) of operation. But yes it would be nice to extend this if possible. However, I would put improving the stops @ #1.

However, I would put improving the stops @ #1.

How so?

Just to clarify my earlier post, there are a number of add/alternates all throughout the project that could potentially improve system stability and reduce ongoing Operations and Maintenance costs. We wanted the main bid to provide us with a baseline completion cost for what it actually costs to build the system. Add/alternates are wide and varied and are all throughout the system. The bidders were required to provide pricing for these add/alternate options. And yes, there are broader ideas on how to use the surplus to make the system even more effective from a user stand point. At the last meeting, I requested that we have a meeting specifically to go over all of these options and ideas in the event that a surplus occurred. The committee agreed and I think one will be had in the near future.

Great job UP and the rest of the committee. Appreciate what you do.

Thanks!

How so?

As we discussed many pages back in this thread. I would like to see fully/mostly enclosed shelters, along with interactive kiosks.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3059432.1473128074!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

As we discussed many pages back in this thread. I would like to see fully/mostly enclosed shelters, along with interactive kiosks.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/polopoly_fs/1.3059432.1473128074!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_960/image.jpg

...and giant poos on top?

Haha, giant dog poo is a must.

Thanks for the clarification. You will be happy to know that Interactive Kiosks are being actively discussed. I personally visited Kansas City specifically to evaluate their kiosks as well as the newly opened streetcar system. The shelters currently specified in the OKC program are the same Brasco shelters Embark is now using at bus stops. They are enclosed by glass on three sides and have a roof.

UP, so they'll be the curved-top Brasco Eclipse shelters, not the flat-top ones? All the renders that I saw showed the flat-top ones, which don't look as good (in my personal opinion). But if they're basically larger versions of the bus stop shelters, and enclosed on at least three sides, then that should be fairly nice. Will they be equipped with the interior LED lighting like the bus stop shelters too?

UP, so they'll be the curved-top Brasco Eclipse shelters, not the flat-top ones? All the renders that I saw showed the flat-top ones, which don't look as good (in my personal opinion). But if they're basically larger versions of the bus stop shelters, and enclosed on at least three sides, then that should be fairly nice. Will they be equipped with the interior LED lighting like the bus stop shelters too?

It is my understanding that it is the same shelter being used by EMBARK at other locations. I will ask about the curved versus flat although EMBARK may chime in here if they see this.

Lighting is planned, some degree of art on the interior glass panels reinforcing neighborhood identity. It is enclosed on three sides. A large "pylon" is to one side of the shelter next to the platform. Currently the pylon has static displays specified for advertising and route maps. We are (the committee) is trying to get this upgraded to touch-screen interactive display to be able to house more content and enable EMBARK to sell more advertising to generate more transit funding revenue. A "Next Train" digital display timing board is specced. We are also trying to get a real time GPS display map of the entire system with all trains identified as part of the touch screen interface.

Some stops are grander than others and with more platform and shelter capacity. The biggest one is down on the new OKC Boulevard. Other stops are minimized to fit into their urban spatial context. Many stops are dual purpose and have longer platforms to allow for both busses and streetcars to intersect to make transfers and share facilities.

I suspect that there are many, many people who do not realize how much of a game changer this system is in terms of setting the expectation bar high for the rest of the system throughout the metro in the coming years.

Urban Pioneer, thank you so much for your (and the others') countless hours and energy spent on this work, and for updating the OKCTalk community as well. This will indeed be a game-changer for our city. Just this morning at the breakfast table I was explaining to our 9-year old daughter how cool it will be to have a streetcar stop within easy walking distance of our house, so that we'll have access to anything we want without ever taking out the car. She replied, "So even if it's snowing and we can't take our bicycles, we can ride the streetcar!" I think now she gets it.

No problem! I enjoy the dialogue with folks! Criticisms are welcome too. I would also throw out there that if there are members in the OKC Talk Community or non-registered members as well that want to be involved in making our Public Transit System better, please reach out to me.

Streetcar bid $7 million under budget

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record November 1, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – The variance between projections and the low bid for the downtown streetcar speak to the hard lessons learned from another MAPS 3 project, David Todd said.

City officials underestimated the cost to build a whitewater recreational facility on the Oklahoma River earlier this year, so this time they overestimated. Todd, MAPS 3 project manager, said he doesn’t know how the untapped part of the project budget will be spent.

“I think it was a function of being ultraconservative,” Todd said Tuesday. “This being a project we’ve never done before, and there were lessons learned on the whitewater project, which we had never handled before either.”

In 2014, City Manager Jim Couch told City Council members that he expected the riverside water sport center, one of several projects under the Metropolitan Area Projects sales tax issue, to cost no more than about $23.8 million. But the three bid packages City Hall received revealed contractors’ targets for the work were as much as $21 million more. The city redesigned the project and opened the raft and canoe course last year.

The opposite was true at the end of October when Herzog Contracting Corp. turned in a base bid of $50 million to lay the 4.5-mile streetcar line through downtown. Archer Western and Connect OKC came in closer to the expectations of city leaders and Jacobs Engineering, at bids of $52.7 million and $56.9 million, respectively. Todd said the price range suggests expectations for the project were made clear.

Herzog was involved in building the KC Streetcar line in Kansas City. The Streetcar Authority operates the 2.2-mile system through downtown; the contract was managed by City Hall in Kansas City, Missouri. Authority spokeswoman Donna Mandelbaum said Herzog, in partnership with Stacy and Witbeck Inc., did a good job and the new service has been wildly successful since it opened in May.

Oklahoma City’s loop will be twice as long, serving the Bricktown entertainment district, city parking garages, Chesapeake Energy Arena and the convention center and adjacent hotel.

The rail and related construction material is already stacked at SW 10th Street near Robinson Avenue, ready for installation. Each piece is about 60 feet long and weighs 2 tons, Todd said.

The bid committee doesn’t have the authority to declare a winning bid and instead will review them to confirm specifications are met before passing the decision to the City Council. Todd said council members are expected to award the bid before the end of November.

As for the budget overage, Todd said he has an idea but it’s not his call to make.

“My preference would be to hold it until we get about halfway through the project to make sure there aren’t any surprises,” he said. “There’s been a lot of things talked about, and I think each subcommittee member might have his own ideas. That’ll be something they have to talk about.”

If I am remembering correctly, wasn't there some sort of city ordinance that will need to be changed for advertising on the shelters/kiosks to be allowed?

If I am remembering correctly, wasn't there some sort of city ordinance that will need to be changed for advertising on the shelters/kiosks to be allowed?

IIRC it had to do with not allowing advertisements of alcohol or cirgarettes; possibly are few other items...

Allocate savings into betterment of the proposed shelters @ the stops.

The scope for shelters seems pretty standard though, at least the ones I saw (I think they were yellow?).

$7 million can do something substantial. Leveraging that $7 million to do something even more substantial is also a distinct possibility.

I agree. I know what a few of the add/alternates are, however not all of them. Not only has Herzog the low bidder on the construction, but also the operations. I'd like to know what items would help them operate the system more smoothly and efficiently that may have not been incorporated into the original design. Lot's of discussions and decisions to be had for sure.

I don't have time to follow these threads as much as I used to, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Recently I've been to a lot of cities with streetcar/tram systems including Dublin, Amsterdam, Prague, and Berlin. Something I'm really interested to know is if it's been decided how ticketing and validation are going to work. For instance, will tickets be purchased at kiosks on the street and validated on the car? Also, will any currently planned route sections have dedicated lanes, or are they all in line with vehicle traffic?

Thanks!

In Buenos Aires, we have a card called "SUBE" that works on every form of public transportation in the city, and in fact, almost the whole country!! It looks like any sort of members/rewards/credit card and you just touch it to the machine, it reads your balance, deducts the tariff, and off you go.

It would be cool if we could work with "Keep It Local" so that the card would act as both a "Keep It Local" card and would be able to work with an electronic system that keeps track of a balance that can be used on all OKC Metro area transit.

In Buenos Aires, we have a card called "SUBE" that works on every form of public transportation in the city, and in fact, almost the whole country!! It looks like any sort of members/rewards/credit card and you just touch it to the machine, it reads your balance, deducts the tariff, and off you go.

It would be cool if we could work with "Keep It Local" so that the card would act as both a "Keep It Local" card and would be able to work with an electronic system that keeps track of a balance that can be used on all OKC Metro area transit.

In LA, Metro Pass works on a lot of different forms of transit except Amtrak and Metrolink however you can get a month pass for metrolink and have it work on Metro, but not vice versa for some reason.

Rode the streetcar in Portland all week long and loved it. And tickets were only $2.50, valid for 2.5 hours and worked on trains and buses. Fantastic system. Makes me excited for the potential ours has!

I don't have time to follow these threads as much as I used to, so sorry if this has already been discussed.

Recently I've been to a lot of cities with streetcar/tram systems including Dublin, Amsterdam, Prague, and Berlin. Something I'm really interested to know is if it's been decided how ticketing and validation are going to work. For instance, will tickets be purchased at kiosks on the street and validated on the car? Also, will any currently planned route sections have dedicated lanes, or are they all in line with vehicle traffic?

Thanks!

The following may not answer all your questions but you may find it interesting. Last month a change order for the streetcar purchase contract was approved by the MAPS 3 Committee. Fare boxes were eliminated from the cars.

"Item No. 1, Fare Box Credit, <$6,500>: At the operator's request, the fare boxes will be removed from the streetcars, which results in a credit to the project."

I suspect that if there is a fare collected it will be done similarly to how it is done in Dallas. With DART, tickets are purchased at kiosks. Passengers are subject to random checks for a valid ticket. I rode six times in one day and was never asked to show verification of a valid ticket. I am not a regular rider so I don't know how strict they are with enforcement.

That's how Portland's system is. It is the honor system with random spot checks by transit officers. There's a hefty fine for riding without a validated fare.

In LA, Metro Pass works on a lot of different forms of transit except Amtrak and Metrolink however you can get a month pass for metrolink and have it work on Metro, but not vice versa for some reason.

Hong Kong has the Octopus card which is basically a debit touch card that is good for the mass transit but also works at some c-stores.