So, is streetcar a transportation issue or a quality of life issue like the convention center is being argued here? Or does the city expect tangible benefits for the $ spent. Tangible for the city, not for property owners and developers on the route.

Quality of life and economic development first, transportation w/in the core second. Tangible benefits would be increased sales tax revenue from more people spending time and money in the core?

There would also be economic impact from the actual construction of any transit oriented development that happens.

I think of the streetcar as serving several purposes.

The first, and most important, is that by connecting the existing downtown "neighborhoods" or "attractions" (Bricktown, Midtown, Convention Center, etc), it serves as a convenient, clean, and easy to use introduction to mass transit and rail to the people of Oklahoma.

The second is that it serves as useful transportation around downtown.

The third is that it promotes transit oriented development along the route.

The first priority basically requires it fulfill the second two priorities. It's got to provide good transportation, and we need to see evidence of TOD as well. But the biggest overall benefit will be getting people who have never used public transportation, and getting them to leave their car behind, step onto a streetcar, and enjoy using it. Many people will probably think of it like an amusement park ride at first. There are going to be people who get on the thing with no particular place to go in mind. They're just going to see what it's like. Once they do that, I think they're a lot more likely to support light rail for the OKC area. The streetcar can serve as the "last mile" transportation around the city as well. The idea that you can ride the train into downtown, and then take the streetcar all over the place once you get there, will be very appealing to people.

Quality of life and economic development first, transportation w/in the core second. Tangible benefits would be increased sales tax revenue from more people spending time and money in the core?

What does economic development mean? Does it mean that OKC will grow faster? Will it increase jobs in OKC?

So what difference does it make if they spend it in the core if it takes it from other places in the city? What is the NET increase from out of the area?

What does economic development mean? Does it mean that OKC will grow faster? Will it increase jobs in OKC?

So what difference does it make if they spend it in the core if it takes it from other places in the city? What is the NET increase from out of the area?

Promotes density along the route which increases property values which increase the tax base.

As only the Oklahoman does in local media, here is an article and extensive video interview by William Crum with Marion Van Fosson. who is the president of the Brookville Equipment Corp.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5481284?embargo_redirect=yes


The manufacturer of Oklahoma City's MAPS 3 streetcars expects to deliver them ahead of schedule.

After a year of delays and a false start with another manufacturer that was welcome news this week.

The president of Brookville Equipment Corp. was in town to meet with advisory groups for the $131 million streetcar system.

Marion H. Van Fosson brought word the Pennsylvania company has created a gap in its production schedule and expects to deliver Oklahoma City's streetcars by the fall of 2017.

Promotes density along the route which increases property values which increase the tax base.

I understand this along the route, but tell me what the NET effect in the city or area is? Like sales tax, are we just moving it from one part of the city to another, or actually creating tangible NET value for the city?

I understand this along the route, but tell me what the NET effect in the city or area is? Like sales tax, are we just moving it from one part of the city to another, or actually creating tangible NET value for the city?

Good question Rover,

Are we just recirculating money?

The streetcar is a quality of life project; note some of the progressive cities (Austin, Charlotte, Dallas, Denver, Houston, Kansas City, Portland, Salt Lake City, San Antonio & Seattle) that have them in place or under construction. The streetcar is our precursor to light & commuter rail transit. OKC has a big edge over many cities; our streetcar will be paid-in-full once it's completed.

The more appealing you make the core, the more out-of-state tourist dollars you bring to the area. You put your city in a better position to bring in new businesses like G.E. Global Research & other attractions.

Downtown-Bricktown hotels, convention center, restaurants and related venues capture those 'out-of state dollars' that will be circulated through the OKC economy (creates jobs) through employment & sales taxes which beefs up the city's coffers; again the more out-of-state tourists you attract, the more NEW MONEY you pump into your economy. As the jobs grow, so grows the city's talent base, real estate housing and so on.

Our city was stagnant throughout the 70s & 80s because we built a convention center that was limited on the type of conventions it could host because it lacked the hotels that would have brought 'out-of-state dollars' into our local economy. Note the growth of the OKC hotel industry in the last 15 years.

12295 hey I support the project and all I just remembered this though.

I understand this along the route, but tell me what the NET effect in the city or area is? Like sales tax, are we just moving it from one part of the city to another, or actually creating tangible NET value for the city?

Arguably, streetcar generates construction projects which elevate sales tax revenue from the sales of material to construct those projects. There is the job creation factor for both the streetcar system itself and the development that occurs after the line is built along it.

Oklahoma City is slated to grow significantly over the next thirty years. The streetcar generate viability for properties along the route by allowing them to be more economically viable without the current parking requirements.

As to whether these business generating sales tax might be drawn from the suburbs to downtown or otherwise happen somewhere else is pretty much a debate that will have to play itself out. From my personal observations of other cities, I think this is newly stimulated development that I large part might not occur at all or to the scale this it might without the streetcar system.

I understand this along the route, but tell me what the NET effect in the city or area is? Like sales tax, are we just moving it from one part of the city to another, or actually creating tangible NET value for the city?
Well techincally there is a tangible net value. The Buick building post renovation with Broadway 10 in it is worth more now then it was pre renovation. Take that times the entire route.

I would say it is comparable to stuff like the current east Bricktown developments. The Steelyard and everything around it aren't developments that happened in Bricktown instead of somewhere else in the city, they happened there instead of not happening at all if Bricktown didn't already exist.

One way we'll have it pretty easy to in terms of finding out is if out-of-state developers pick up around the route.

I understand this along the route, but tell me what the NET effect in the city or area is? Like sales tax, are we just moving it from one part of the city to another, or actually creating tangible NET value for the city?

On a metropolitan level, consider:

Someone living near edge of town: May spend 50-70% of shopping/dining budget within Oklahoma City, may find it easy to also travel to nearby suburban shopping district.

Someone living in/near downtown: Likely spends nearly 100% of shopping/dining budget within Oklahoma City because why drive past 5+ OKC commercial areas to get to a suburb (except rare exceptions of suburb having only location of destination stores).

Someone living in suburb: Might as well shop near home instead of going to Memorial Road or suburban corridor. Only needs travel to OKC to spend if there's an experience or business they can't get closer to home

Therefore, increasing downtown population and quantity/quality of the retail/dining experience allows City of Oklahoma City to be competitive in capturing a larger share of the region's disposable income.

Moore, Norman, Edmond, Yukon, and Mustang are all building their own big box strips that compete with those on the edge of OKC. OKC has to provide something other than a big box strip with the same chains to keep its competitive advantage on regional shopping dollars. Doing everything possible to pack downtown with life is part of that equation.

As Laramie pointed out, the more dense and vibrant and easily accessible downtown is, the more out-of-town visitors will be drawn there. The walkable environment itself then facilitates spending.

12295 hey I support the project and all I just remembered this though.

Glad you remembered that Uptowner because we would have had a streetcar in place sometime ago (early 2000s):


This is a story that started 25 years ago, and its potential for future development in the urban core cannot be overstated.

Streetcars have been visualized as part of MAPS since the very first initiative was passed in 1993. That ballot provided $5 million for a 2.7-mile passenger rail system downtown that assumed easy Congressional approval of $13 million of federal funding.

That slam dunk, however, disappeared when longtime U.S. Rep. Mickey Edwards was defeated by Ernest Istook, who then actively blocked the funding and instead insisted the city buy rubber tire trolleys instead. Those vintage style trolleys were retired a couple of years ago and replaced with regular buses that still circulate downtown.

Oklahoma City's streetcar story is all about development | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5480157?scrolling_list=article_small)

Istook blocked OKC's funding; yet he approved funding for Salt Lake City's streetcar system in time for them to host the 2002 Winter Olympic Games.

unlike

The Oklahoman has done a good job covering our project lately. Bill Crum has kept up with the developments and kept people informed. That is also a well done historical summary from Steve.

Shout out to Laura Eastes with the Gazette's economic development article from this past week and Brian Brus coverage in the Journal record.

Thanks to all the journalists who have covered this project extensively over the past couple of months. Their work is appreciated.

Ahh, and I forgot Steve Shaw with News 9. He did an interview with me down on the new boulevard about the route change with a live remote. Many thanks to him as well.

There is so much good news about the streetcar to go around right now. Under budget on rail and Santa Fe Station Phase 2, three million more from the council to the project, great urban integration with the Boulevard planned, and projected to be ahead of schedule by nearly 6 months delivering the cars. All good news so far.

And another cool and crazy thing that is so positive, Larry Hopper with Embark went on a historical binge and found where the original Union Station stone had been quarried. The quarry operations had been closed out of that particular location.

The owners got excited about the project and have agreed to supply us stone from the exact site so that the Maintenance Facility facade matches Union Station architecturally. Apparently they are even doing this at less cost than we would have payed for fake split block stone concrete blocks.

I don't even know how that is possible, but that is what we were told at the last meeting. So cool....

Now that really is cool!

That is awesome Jeff and that needs to be shared. Is it Dolese or someone else who owns the quarry?

Very nice to hear the media is finally covering something positive regarding Oklahoma City development AND is using valid sources and language in their reports. I hope this is a start to much better media in the OKC market - utilizing the best sources for their stories.

Vvery nice all around re the streetcar project. Since we're under budget, any chance they will add more rail with the difference? can we put in more rail extending the reach (a mile from Midtown into 23rd or the 1/2 mile from 4th/Broadway to OHC would make a HUGE difference) or perhaps two-rail more sections along the existing run.

If not, will they at least fully complete the pedestrian scapes along the routes and especially at/near the Hub. This facet seems to ALWAYS be cut from OKC projects, the HUMAN interface (lighting, landscaping, human scale elements, graphics/video). Can we assure to fully implement the project? Any leftover goes to more rail. ...

The City has money that they would prefer to keep in the General Fund.

Think it's a good idea to save on as many projects as we can now that they are under projection. Those funds can be used on the very projects that didn't go over projection or go into a leftover MAPS' surplus or contingency fund (projects over projection).

Hot Rod, keep in mind that we are $3 million over our original budget to be able to add more rail and switching to go down to the new Convention Center site.

All around the news has been positive. However, the real test to the over all budget comes when the actually alignment goes out to bid later this year. That is the real test as to whether the project is falling within the consultant's projections and paper budget.

Another element for example, both Phase 1 and Phase 2 have come under budget in the Santa Fe Station project. However, we are being conservative and waiting for the Phase 3 numbers to come in before we make decisions as to how to spend that surplus money.

Yes, enhancing urbanity and good design at Santa Fe Station and around stops are an ongoing discussion. At our last meeting, concerns were voiced as to how the stop on the new OKC Boulevard will interact with the street and adjacent sidewalk. There are opportunities for funds to be applied to make those connections the best they can be.

Other items that still are being discussed that will probably require additional funds is additional automatic signal prioritization at traffic lights and digital interactive signage at stops. So, there are many smaller items that need to be addressed over the long term in which savings can be applied.

That is awesome Jeff and that needs to be shared. Is it Dolese or someone else who owns the quarry?

Apparently it is in NW Arkansas. I will drop Larry a line and see if he can email me a summary on the stone.

Good points Urban! I wasn't aware there were a few additional bids still left to go out. Yes, hope they too come under (and I suspect they might given the mini-OKC recession which likely might have contributed to the other under bids).

Great that you, Betts, and other 'urban pioneers' who have resided/worked in larger cities, are on these URBAN development committees so that you make positive impacts to Oklahoma City! I can't wait until this all gets bid and u/c.

Glad to see these be mostly wireless.

Oklahoma City gives go-ahead on streetcar deal | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-gives-go-ahead-on-streetcar-deal/article/5486808)

Oklahoma City gives go-ahead on streetcar deal | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-gives-go-ahead-on-streetcar-deal/article/5486808)

Oklahoma City gives go-ahead on streetcar deal | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-gives-go-ahead-on-streetcar-deal/article/5486808)

Still glad to see that most of the line will use overhead wiring to keep a full charge on those batteries!

Still glad to see that most of the line will use overhead wiring to keep a full charge on those batteries!

Yuck, why would you want wires? They just make an area look cheap, I hate it. It's 2016, could they have not done something with solar to help keep batteries charged? It just seems like we could have done something better. This seems like a backwards step to me, especially when we are trying to beautify areas.

Yuck, why would you want wires? They just make an area look cheap, I hate it. It's 2016, could they have not done something with solar to help keep batteries charged? It just seems like we could have done something better. This seems like a backwards step to me, especially when we are trying to beautify areas.

Is this sarcasm?

Is this sarcasm?

Not even a little bit.

Solar technology isn't even close to being to the point where it could power a streetcar. You'd probably have to have a solar panel about the size of Devon Tower... ...and then bring the power to the cars using overhead wires.

Much more likely that at some point that battery systems could be developed with enough capacity to charge overnight in the barn, but even then the technology still is not quite there.

Not even a little bit.
I agree, Zuplar. I do not like overhead wires either.

Google image search: san francisco street cars (https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+street+cars&tbm=isch)

I think we'll probably be fine with the wires.

I love San Francisco! I drive all the time. It is one of my favorite cities. However, their streetcar system was built a long time ago. We are building ours new.

I just don't like the look from the wires, but that is just my 2 cents. I completely understand points from other posters who pointed out last time we had this conversation that the wireless streetcar is still a prototype and hasn't been fully tested so there could be problems with them. I would rather OKC go for a hybrid system at this point to ensure success.

Don't necessarily like the wires either. Dallas has had it's system in play for some time now; they are ready to transition into the off wire system as DART commuter rail expands.

Know that we're talking about a street car vs. commuter rail. Our street car is our precursor to commuter rail that would involve cities like Edmond & Norman which will exceed populations over 100,000 come 2020.


Hutchison noted polls that show there is strong public support for rail infrastructure in Central Oklahoma. He also showed a map of existing rail lines and noted that if commuter rail lines were approved, they would potentially extend to Norman, Edmond, Midwest City, Tinker Air Force Base and Yukon.

"We're set up for running commuter rail," Hutchison said. "We've got existing infrastructure."


MAPS 3 could bring commuter rail to area | Local News | normantranscript.com (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/local_news/maps-could-bring-commuter-rail-to-area/article_c4693bf4-2a6d-553e-a7a1-23f617e915cf.html)

Why Transit Matters: Benefits to the Oklahoma City Metro - ACOG (http://www.acogok.org/transit-matters-okc/)

Google image search: san francisco street cars (https://www.google.com/search?q=san+francisco+street+cars&tbm=isch)

I think we'll probably be fine with the wires.

Thanks for this. Completely reinforces my opinion that wires suck. In a day and age where everything is going wireless, it seems very dated.

It does seem dated, I agree, but there is (currently) no acceptable substitute for getting the necessary power to the vehicles in a way that is safe for people on foot.

Not to mention that, unlike you Zuplar and Plupan, the average citizen of OKC is probably gonna pull left through and in front of streetcars cause they saw no wires. Honestly, even if the wires exist, people will still get into accidents with them cause as Pete has pointed out in another thread, Oklahoma drivers are horrible...

Oh and don't forget that the "dated" terminology is just as bad. Every year since their initial investment, SLC has been expanding their streetcar and they still overhead wire it.

It's not dated so long as the overhead wire remains state-of-the-art, which it continues to be at this point. If you want electric fully off-wire vehicles you might be waiting for a decade or more; if you want off-wire SOLAR-POWERED you might have to wait literally forever. I'd rather not wait for either.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the wires are dated.

Not even a little bit.

We are going to have batteries as efficient as any available. The technology continues to improve and our second generation batteries may enable us to take down wires. Our wires will be fairly unobtrusive though because we have couplets that will require only one wire. Even where the route crosses you will not see the mass of wires like you see in San Francisco.

I read all the facebook comments for this article from NewsOK... Wow every single one was basically complaining about funding for education and repairing roads instead of putting money into [what they claim] a gimmicky streetcar.

Several posters pointed out that they had already paid for this a long time ago via MAPS 3, but alas people want the funds to go towards other things.

Really shows just how out-of-touch the average OKC citizen is about this city. I would be lying if I said I was not scared for the success of the streetcar.

I read all the facebook comments for this article from NewsOK... Wow every single one was basically complaining about funding for education and repairing roads instead of putting money into [what they claim] a gimmicky streetcar.

Several posters pointed out that they had already paid for this a long time ago via MAPS 3, but alas people want the funds to go towards other things.

Really shows just how out-of-touch the average OKC citizen is about this city. I would be lying if I said I was not scared for the success of the streetcar.

I've said this before, and I know I've gotten nailed on this site for saying it, but most people in OKC and suburbans couldn't care less about the street car, and yes I'd put myself in this category. I'd rather it not happen personally, I think there are greater concerns. Oklahoma is a state that drives, and regardless of what a few urbanist around here think, that's not going to change anytime soon. My other gripe with it is the majority of the route it covers isn't even that far. I mean really I think about the walking I did in NYC and DC and then looking at all of Bricktown, and it's a joke that people need transit to go from one side to the other. Come on. I imagine the streetcar is going to keep some people, like my parents, from going downtown because they don't want to hassle with screwing up and accidentally turning in front of it. Yes that may sound dumb to some, but I can understand cause there are lots of people out there that have never dealt with that kind of stuff. I've already tried to make a mental note of most of where it's going to run, so I can get used to avoiding the roads on which it will run best that I can.

But it is, so I guess we have to deal with it and at this point I've accepted that. I'd have rather we connect Edmond with Norman, and El Reno with Shawnee with a light rail and enhance bus service. So since we are getting it regardless I'd at least like it to be the best it can be, and hopefully it changes the opinions of us haters, lol.

I read all the facebook comments for this article from NewsOK... Wow every single one was basically complaining about funding for education and repairing roads instead of putting money into [what they claim] a gimmicky streetcar.

Several posters pointed out that they had already paid for this a long time ago via MAPS 3, but alas people want the funds to go towards other things.

Really shows just how out-of-touch the average OKC citizen is about this city. I would be lying if I said I was not scared for the success of the streetcar.

I'm betting many of those people are rarely downtown. There's a group of perennial complainers on news ok who seem to have very little understanding of city vs. state spending, MAPS or bond issues. I think their comments are unlikely to be representative. I agree education is a mess, but that is mostly due to state legislature failure. MAPS did what it could to help with schools, within the purview of its power.

If you're looking at this streetcar line in a vacuum then it doesn't serve a critical purpose. However, if you consider that this line could lead to an expanded line and commuter rails to Edmond and Norman then you'll start to realize that this could be a big deal for changing the transportation options for OKC. Moreover, stops on the line should become more urban and dense, thus making OKC more dense with more urban options.

This is my favorite project not simply for what it is, but what it could lead to.

For those complaining about wires, remember too that our system is far longer than many starter systems. Its much easier for a short system like the new line in Dallas to go wireless. Union Station to Oak Cliff is only 1.6 miles long. Our system is 4 times that distance. Battery life is not yet good enough for that distance off wire.

I'm betting many of those people are rarely downtown. There's a group of perennial complainers on news ok who seem to have very little understanding of city vs. state spending, MAPS or bond issues. I think their comments are unlikely to be representative. I agree education is a mess, but that is mostly due to state legislature failure. MAPS did what it could to help with schools, within the purview of its power.

Yes, I do think that a lot of people don't understand how things are funded, which causes a lot of confusion.

... I imagine the streetcar is going to keep some people, like my parents, from going downtown because they don't want to hassle with screwing up and accidentally turning in front of it. Yes that may sound dumb to some, but I can understand cause there are lots of people out there that have never dealt with that kind of stuff. ...

Wow, should they even be driving if they think they can't handle being in the vicinity of a streetcar?

As far as wires go, doesn't matter if they look "dated" or "bad" or anything else, there is no alternative to them right now, there will be wires, it's the only way they can get enough power to the streetcars, so why even discuss?

I stopped supporting the streetcar last year honestly because I believe a lot of these streetcars being built in other cities similar to OKC are just a fad right now. I think BRT is the best way and we could have gotten a lot more miles of BRT than we are streetcar.

However, with all of the planning and money that has been poured into it so far, I'd rather it just get done and I hope it is successful. For Oklahoma City's sake.

Wow, should they even be driving if they think they can't handle being in the vicinity of a streetcar?

As far as wires go, doesn't matter if they look "dated" or "bad" or anything else, there is no alternative to them right now, there will be wires, it's the only way they can get enough power to the streetcars, so why even discuss?

No need to be condescending. I can think of many people, myself included, who have never driven around a streetcar. So yes I can imagine some people would be afraid to drive around it, because they don't know what to expect, so they avoid it. You have to consider downtown is busy traffic wise as it is. There is a lot going on. So adding something foreign that most people aren't worried about when there is already an abundance of other things, such as bikes and pedestrians it can be stressful.

No need to be condescending. I can think of many people, myself included, who have never driven around a streetcar. So yes I can imagine some people would be afraid to drive around it, because they don't know what to expect, so they avoid it. You have to consider downtown is busy traffic wise as it is. There is a lot going on. So adding something foreign that most people aren't worried about when there is already an abundance of other things, such as bikes and pedestrians it can be stressful.

Not being condescending, it's just that when someone drives, it doesn't matter what else is around - autos, trucks, semis, buses, pedestrians, motorcycles, what-the-hell-ever - you just allow for the streetcar as a subset of "other motorized vehicles" and obey any signs that are around (and I'd hope there will be signs directing people to do/not do certain things around it, like there are in other cities, and something like the "DO NOT STOP ON TRACKS" signs at RR crossings), and just move on with it. Basically, just pay attention, drive carefully, figure out what's going on around you, drive past your front bumper, and you should be OK with a streetcar (or semi trucks, or unicyclists, or rubber-tired trolleys or streetcars).

I'm just kind of baffled at folks that won't drive somewhere because it's unfamiliar and weird, it doesn't matter to me, I've driven in *all* kinds of places, just be aware of what's around you and don't be stupid.

And doing a little research is not very hard:

https://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=what+to+look+for+when+driving+near+a+streetcar&oq=what+to+look+for+when+driving+near+a+streetcar&gs_l=serp.3...19621.29821.0.30352.38.27.0.0.0.0.47 8.3856.0j6j4j4j1.15.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..32.1.17 1.LjBKcG14wsY

If it is the state of the art, it by definition cannot be dated.

I read all the facebook comments for this article from NewsOK... Wow every single one was basically complaining about funding for education and repairing roads instead of putting money into [what they claim] a gimmicky streetcar.

Several posters pointed out that they had already paid for this a long time ago via MAPS 3, but alas people want the funds to go towards other things.

Really shows just how out-of-touch the average OKC citizen is about this city. I would be lying if I said I was not scared for the success of the streetcar.

Judging the city by the people who comment on a news article is like judging a school by the kids in the special ed class.

Judging the city by the people who comment on a news article is like judging a school by the kids in the special ed class.

That is an unkind comparison....to the kids. Most kids in special ed aren't constantly angry and telling anyone who will listen.

I'm betting many of those people are rarely downtown. There's a group of perennial complainers on news ok who seem to have very little understanding of city vs. state spending, MAPS or bond issues. I think their comments are unlikely to be representative. I agree education is a mess, but that is mostly due to state legislature failure. MAPS did what it could to help with schools, within the purview of its power.

Name a state that isn't constantly complaining about their education system. Complaining about teacher pay and crappy schools is always in vogue.

I get the education system in OK isn't great, but let's not pretend that people ranting and raving about education funding is anything unique, tune em out.

http://youtu.be/RybNI0KB1bg

BRT can be just as expensive as streetcar, FYI. And although we may walk long distances in NYC, how many of you regularly stroll from, for example, the Bricktown Ballpark to McNellie's to pick up a quick bite after a game? The streetcar will serve very well to tote people around. I think the route very cleverly touches or is a short distance from virtually all the downtown attractions and we seem to be doing it all fairly closely (knock on wood!) to a budget conceived from very little hard data almost a decade ago and are even extending the predicted range by almost a mile. For those who are nervous about driving around it, park in the garage on 10th or in a angled spot on Broadway and ride it wherever you want to go! I think people will be amazed at how au courant it makes this city feel. I predict people will bring out of town guests to ride it just to show off how our city has grown and changed. It was never intended to be the be all of transportation, but rather, the "last mile" of a larger system and a way to facilitate getting around our most urban part of the city, which does get the most visitation by locals and visitors. The cost of the project wouldn't come close to paying for a light or heavy rail system of the kind being mentioned. It will take a dedicated sales tax of some portion of a cent to do that. But it might help make people more amenable to paying for more rail transit.

Judging the city by the people who comment on a news article is like judging a school by the kids in the special ed class.

As an educator, I'll just say that this is a poor comparison. Students in special education classes are some of the best people I've met, which is pretty much the opposite of the comments section.

Name a state that isn't constantly complaining about their education system. Complaining about teacher pay and crappy schools is always in vogue.

I get the education system in OK isn't great, but let's not pretend that people ranting and raving about education funding is anything unique, tune em out.

http://youtu.be/RybNI0KB1bg

Not trying to turn this into an education discussion, but most people have no clue what they're talking about in regards to education. They rely on platitudes, political slogans, and psuedo-science to form their opinions. It's why there's a chasm in surveys that asked whether parents were satisfied with their child's teacher (parents are generally happy) and whether they were satisfied with education in general (parents are generally unhappy). I'm not saying there aren't problems, but the public is incredibly uninformed on education (see Common Core, which 99% of people and politicians did not understand on basic levels).

In that sense education is Just like good urbanism. All the public wants is wider roads and more highways because they often don't understand the downsides. The public often needs leaders who will help educate and lead the public, not just try to garner votes.