It depends on whether the trains are suspended on rails that are on ballasts or are immersed in concrete. The streetcar tracks are imbedded and immersed in a concrete slab. There really isn't a whole lot of opportunity for expansion or contraction with our streetcar system.

The MAX in Portland is probably just designed for parameters that are different.

That makes sense. Thanks.

The MAX in Portland is probably just designed for parameters that are different.

That's the key - Portland's weren't likely designed for this heat, but ours should be. The spacing of rail splits vs welds, I imagine, will be more frequent here than in Portland.

How Car-Centric Cities Like Phoenix Learned to Love Light Rail (http://www.governing.com/topics/transportation-infrastructure/gov-phoenix-sun-belt-light-rail.html)

Thrilled to let you guys and gals know that the chosen Santa Fe Station Phase 1 bid came in $600,000 under budget. Construction is to begin eminently. A great deal is going to happen there over the next 18 months.

"Like" https://www.facebook.com/okcstreetcar for regular pics and updates or follow us on twitter at @okcstreetcar

Ironically, there are gong to be efficiencies gained by merging the Phase 2 pedestrian tunnel "secret tunnel expansion" at Santa Fe Station with the OKC Boulevard BNSF underpass construction that is underway. We will be building the "shoofly" or siding that BNSF requires to shift freight trains to one side while excavation occurs. The sidings and switches will be intentionally left in place to allow for commuter trains in the future. Such infrastructure would normally be taken back up and sold for scrap.

Any idea on how P180 on EKG going to effect this? Is the general plan to lay rails while the street is being redone? Surely they won't redo the street, only to tear up part of it for rails later on.

No. Fortunately, the city has finally timed the two projects in which Santa Fe Station, P180 EK Gaylord, and the streetcar rails out front will be completed within the same time frame and completely coordinated.

P180 EK Gaylord section bids out in the next few months and construction will occur in tandem with Santa Fe Station restoration/renovation. Not only do you have rails going in, but presumably new sewer, water, and other utility service to the Station itself.

EK Gaylord is proposed to be closed and constructed in two "halves" as is the parking lot sections that exist flanking either side of the station. In that way AMTRAK and Pinkitizel accessibility can be retained.

We are also in the process of letting bid out on the both the main alignment rail and the trackage out front of Sante Fe Station. The main alignment steel tracks will presumably coming from the only steel mill in the world that does streetcar tracks with the profile that we need located in Austria.

Oklahoman: Oklahoma City Traffic Congestion Takes Toll on Commuters, Study Says (http://newsok.com/article/5442635)

Oklahoman: Oklahoma City Traffic Congestion Takes Toll on Commuters, Study Says (http://newsok.com/article/5442635)

Of course, Inhofe's solution is to fund wider highways and roads.

Of course, Inhofe's solution is to fund wider highways and roads.

...and why not? That tactict has worked so well in the past that is should be repeated ad naus.... wait.....what? Oh, really!.... never mind.

I made this map today, I guess it would be my dream light rail system for OKC.

Posted in the other thread but felt it would also be appropriate here.

I use the Portland system quite often and have found it to be very useful personally and hope OKC adopts a similar system someday.

https://i.gyazo.com/1cb2ea91fe58316e4d20eac3d1aa58d3.png

Under budget! Haven't seen this brought up yet, but looks like the multi-modal transit hub bids came in a half-million under budget. That's a first in the MAPS era!

And that's WITH a complicated, historic landmark at the center of the project, I might add!

Under budget! Haven't seen this brought up yet, but looks like the multi-modal transit hub bids came in a half-million under budget. That's a first in the MAPS era!

And that's WITH a complicated, historic landmark at the center of the project, I might add!

Fantastic news and a great way to kick off MAPS 3 Transit!

I made this map today, I guess it would be my dream light rail system for OKC.

Posted in the other thread but felt it would also be appropriate here.

I use the Portland system quite often and have found it to be very useful personally and hope OKC adopts a similar system someday.

https://i.gyazo.com/1cb2ea91fe58316e4d20eac3d1aa58d3.png

Add an FAA spur along with WRWA and you have my vote...

Under budget! Haven't seen this brought up yet, but looks like the multi-modal transit hub bids came in a half-million under budget. That's a first in the MAPS era!

And that's WITH a complicated, historic landmark at the center of the project, I might add!


Great news, Spartan!


Sales tax collections dipped last month in Oklahoma City, in line with a prediction that the slowdown in oil and gas could hit the city's bottom line.

Accounting for interest and the Oklahoma Tax Commission's processing fee, Oklahoma City received $32.2 million, down from $34.1 million last year.

Oklahoma City sales tax dips with April check | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/5408713)

The 2015 trend continues:


May - up 1.8 percent
June - down 0.3 percent
July down 1.3 percent
August (out)

The oil debacle has many concerned about the future revenue collections for our city.

Really great job on that map Catch 22.

being off ~1% while sucks shouldn't be devastating. It's no 10% hole the state always seems to be in.

I wonder if some of that overage could be used to address the fact that there is not currently adequate stroller/wheelchair access from the new Santa Fe tunnel to canal level. The monumental staircase is beautiful, but practicality suffers with no ramp or elevator.

How do Amtrak riders get to the tracks presently, is there an elevator to go up?

I only ask because if so could the retrofit one that went all the way down to tunnel level?

Tunnel level is above canal level. Tunnel is at street level; tracks are above street level.

My bad, it's hard to tell from inside of it, but the point still stands, is there presently an elevator shaft that could be extended lower?

Not sure, but the problem is that if it were there would need to be ANOTHER tunnel dug at canal level. And even if you did THAT, it would possibly open through the mosaic into empty space.

Here, maybe this will help:

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/9652d1417801223-santa-fe-station-transitnew4.jpg

OH.. okay... there's an elevator at Oklahoma on the south side of the canal at street level. But it's kind of a bitch to go around the "T(erminus)" part of canal to get to it. Are they building a bridge to the other side from just south of the tunnel opening (kinda looks like it in that graphic but can't tell)? That might be okay though not perfect.

For me the stairway is just kinda bland, I would think and hope they could create some sort of ramp to either be built with it or next to it. I think a few months back I saw something on twitter(maybe Toronto) of a ramp built into a stairwell and while I don't know how well it would work it's something like that, that could really help make this a more iconic corridor from the canal to the tunnel and beyond. But I think you are exactly right Urbanized, it might be worth looking into since we came in under budget.

I made this map today, I guess it would be my dream light rail system for OKC.

Posted in the other thread but felt it would also be appropriate here.

I use the Portland system quite often and have found it to be very useful personally and hope OKC adopts a similar system someday.

https://i.gyazo.com/1cb2ea91fe58316e4d20eac3d1aa58d3.png

Looks great.

I think I'd really want to run the Green line up to 23rd, West to Meridian, South to Reno, West to Outlet shops.

One thing to keep in mind when thinking about what our regional transit network should look like is that existing freight rail can NOT be shared with Modern Streetcar/Light Rail vehicles by FRA rules. Any rail transit that follows existing freight rail corridors would have to be commuter (heavy) rail, including the Oklahoma Railway Museum spur (NE 10th to NE 50th).

That said, through Google Maps, I've worked on a dream Commuter Rail map myself, utilizing the three main rail corridors that this city currently has:

N-S BNSF Corridor: Santa Fe / Red Line
E-W UPRR Corridor: Rock Island / Blue Line
NE-SW SLWC Corridor: Burlington / Green Line

I wanted to name the lines according to the predecessor railroads, and give them colors appropriate to this scheme. My dream map is far from perfect - for instance, right now the lines go out too far. My fantasy Burlington line currently extends from Tuttle to Jones, my Rock Island line goes from El Reno to Shawnee, and my Santa Fe line goes from Guthrie to Purcell; demographics that far out would most likely not support commuter rail into the metro, except for maybe Shawnee or Guthrie.

Ideally, I'd like to see a proper N-S and E-W commuter line get done. I know that as long as all goes well with the RTA, we will have the N-S commuter rail, but I think it would be a really good idea to do commuter rail along UPRR's tracks too (either to Midwest City or pushing out as far as Shawnee), as long as we can build a wye to get up to Santa Fe Station.

Just for giggles, once I refine my Google map, I'll make it public and post it here.

For me the stairway is just kinda bland, I would think and hope they could create some sort of ramp to either be built with it or next to it. I think a few months back I saw something on twitter(maybe Toronto) of a ramp built into a stairwell and while I don't know how well it would work it's something like that, that could really help make this a more iconic corridor from the canal to the tunnel and beyond. But I think you are exactly right Urbanized, it might be worth looking into since we came in under budget.

Yeah, that was me on Twitter. The stairs are in Vancouver. The problem is - according to what I have been told - is that in the U.S. they would require railings to comply with ADA. Frankly, I think railings could actually ENHANCE the stairs, as they could create protected areas on the steps that would invite people to linger, eat lunch, read, or watch programming in the plaza below. Unfortunately I have received so much pushback when suggesting that I don't think the stairs have legs.

Here are the stairs we're talking about:


https://littlefallofrain.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/stair-ramp-at-robson-square-in-vancouver-by-arthur-erickson.jpg

There are American examples of stairs of this type, however, including Chicago (recently-installed on River):

https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5540/18814586706_aa492ec343_z.jpg

Portland:

https://rebuildingtroy.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/portland2.jpg

More Portland:

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/fyi-guy/files/2013/09/pioneer.jpg

OH.. okay... there's an elevator at Oklahoma on the south side of the canal at street level. But it's kind of a bitch to go around the "T(erminus)" part of canal to get to it. Are they building a bridge to the other side from just south of the tunnel opening (kinda looks like it in that graphic but can't tell)? That might be okay though not perfect.

Would still be a one-block walk to get to the elevator, then to canal level, even if bridge installed. Bridge is still an add-alternate I think.

Another example, on the High Line, in NYC:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fa/06/5c/fa065c0b8ab3c357124b006a27a18fcd.jpg

Another monumental transit milestone was reached yesterday with the unanimous approval by the OKC City Council of a Memorandum of Understanding between the cities of OKC, Edmond, Norman, Moore, Midwest City and Del City authorizing the creation and funding of a Central Oklahoma Regional Task Force for the development of a Regional Transit Authority to plan, finance, implement and operate a regional public transportation system. OKC City Council led the way as the first municipality to approve the MOU. The other participating cities are expected to approve the agreement in the next few weeks.

Regional Transit Authority Task Force - City Council Memo (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/yrvazb45ahdhwd45yddppu45/288559709022015060934948.PDF)

Regional Transit Authority Task Force - Memorandum of Understanding (http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/yrvazb45ahdhwd45yddppu45/288559809022015061701699.PDF)

Thanks urbanized!! I'll post when I get back to my computer but I was just looking at the regulations and it all depends on the slope. There are countless examples in the U.S. Without rails and that brick one was one I was just looking at. Soemthing done in that style could really match well into Bricktown!

Yeah, the limiting factor is that to comply with ADA you cannot have a slope steeper than a 1" drop per foot of run (commonly known as a 1:12 slope) and no more than a 30' slope between landings so that if something gets away from someone it doesn't pick up too much speed.

In this case the vertical drop is maybe 10 feet, so that would mean about 120' of ramp minimum. The ramp would also need to have a certain width (not sure f that is 4' or 5' - I think ADA requires 4 and the City requires 5 in canal area). The good news is that the current retaining wall has quite a run, and it could be sacrificed to allow for long runs

Barring that, I think an elevator beside those stairs would still be great. They can be weather proofed better than the existing ones and cut down on maintenance.

Another monumental transit milestone was reached yesterday with the unanimous approval by the OKC City Council of a Memorandum of Understanding between the cities of OKC, Edmond, Norman, Moore, Midwest City and Del City authorizing the creation and funding of a Central Oklahoma Regional Task Force for the development of a Regional Transit Authority to plan, finance, implement and operate a regional public transportation system. OKC City Council led the way as the first municipality to approve the MOU. The other participating cities are expected to approve the agreement in the next few weeks.

Corrected links:

Regional Transit Authority Task Force - City Council Memo (https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2885597)

Regional Transit Authority Task Force - Memorandum of Understanding (https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=2885598)

Yeah, the limiting factor is that to comply with ADA you cannot have a slope steeper than a 1" drop per foot of run (commonly known as a 1:12 slope) and no more than a 30' slope between landings so that if something gets away from someone it doesn't pick up too much speed.

In this case the vertical drop is maybe 10 feet, so that would mean about 120' of ramp minimum. The ramp would also need to have a certain width (not sure f that is 4' or 5' - I think ADA requires 4 and the City requires 5 in canal area). The good news is that the current retaining wall has quite a run, and it could be sacrificed to allow for long runs

Barring that, I think an elevator beside those stairs would still be great. They can be weather proofed better than the existing ones and cut down on maintenance.

To be honest, I think ADA is a hugely underestimated added cost to building transit systems. I was in Toronto recently, where the streetcars run on double tracks in the center two lanes, and traffic on all four lanes stops so that riders can walk across the road and step up into the streetcar. It was so non-ADA it wasn't funny, but it was very efficient. They must have well-funded demand-responsive specialized transit for mobility-challenged constituents.

Nm

Two significant steps in moving Regional Transit forward-

https://www.facebook.com/okcstreetcar

Fence is up around Santa Fe Station.

^^^^^^^^
Hopefully someone doesn't become confused by that and accidentally demolish it.

^^^^^^^^
Hopefully someone doesn't become confused by that and accidentally demolish it.

I'd put my house on the market, leave, and never come back…maybe to visit family...

Norman City Council Approves Regional Transportation Partnership (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/government/city-council-approves-regional-transportation-partnership/article_2418f275-5abd-5efe-84ad-ce053775f78b.html)

So, I have two questions to satisfy my curiosity:

First, is there any data available on commuters from Shawnee into the OKC Metro for work?
Second, Shawnee is not part of the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments, and as such was not included in consideration for the OK!Go study. If Shawnee wanted to be a part of the RTA, would they be able to - and what would it take to include them?

I'm spitballing here, with a dream regional system in my head that includes commuter rail to Shawnee along the Union Pacific-owned, Arkansas-Oklahoma Railroad-operated line that goes out that way, and wondering just how realistic of an idea that would actually be.

So, I have two questions to satisfy my curiosity:

First, is there any data available on commuters from Shawnee into the OKC Metro for work?
Second, Shawnee is not part of the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments, and as such was not included in consideration for the OK!Go study. If Shawnee wanted to be a part of the RTA, would they be able to - and what would it take to include them?

I'm spitballing here, with a dream regional system in my head that includes commuter rail to Shawnee along the Union Pacific-owned, Arkansas-Oklahoma Railroad-operated line that goes out that way, and wondering just how realistic of an idea that would actually be.

I feel like connecting Shawnee is much further down the line. If we could complete the OK!GO objectives by 2030, I'd jump for joy. Shawnee has to be like 20-25 years away, and is really only useful after we get everything else set up.

In terms of connectivity, OKC could run a bus from Shawnee to the station at Tinker and provide a connection that way. I imagine that would be more cost effective, but I don't know for sure.

No, I would absolutely agree - a commuter line to Shawnee would definitely come later. Probably a Phase III or Phase IV expansion of the currently imagined RTA. My question is mostly a mental exercise, a "Hey, I wonder how this could be done" sort of thing.

Mostly because I think the old ATSF passenger depot in Shawnee is gorgeous and I would love to be able to ride a train out there someday. :)

Norman City Council Approves Regional Transportation Partnership (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/government/city-council-approves-regional-transportation-partnership/article_2418f275-5abd-5efe-84ad-ce053775f78b.html)

Excellent news!

I saw a train recently at the Santa Fe Station in Shawnee and as it was pulling out I thought how awesome it would be to have rail service. I think of the many who live in the Shawnee area and work at Tinker. A stop there would make sense. Then it's on to Midwest City for some shopping and dining. From there thet rain would take the rider downtown for a Dodger's game or the Thunder plus a trip to Bricktown. You could hop on the streetcar for many other downtown dining and entertainment options. It's a nice vision.

As per to MAPS 3 street car, do we have an idea of what the operational hours will be?

If they operate at least on the schedule of Route 50 (Downtown Discovery -- runs on Sundays), that would be a good start. But would have to also run later.

I saw a train recently at the Santa Fe Station in Shawnee and as it was pulling out I thought how awesome it would be to have rail service. I think of the many who live in the Shawnee area and work at Tinker. A stop there would make sense. Then it's on to Midwest City for some shopping and dining. From there thet rain would take the rider downtown for a Dodger's game or the Thunder plus a trip to Bricktown. You could hop on the streetcar for many other downtown dining and entertainment options. It's a nice vision.

It's a very nice vision and I love it, but the Midwest City/Tinker component, unfortunately, wouldn't work for the Shawnee line - the line that would get you out to Shawnee starts at the railyard at NE 4th and Sunnylane, then heads up toward and roughly follows NE 23rd - going through Nicoma Park, Choctaw, and Harrah, before curving to the southeast through McLoud and Dale, then entering Shawnee. This would, unfortunately, not line up with the stub of track that once served Tinker AFB - though the western origin point of both lines is at the same railyard. (As an aside - that Tinker line - originally the Oklahoma City-Ada-Atoka Railway - used to also serve Shawnee by way of Newalla, but the line was pulled up in the 70's by the ATSF. The former ROW goes through the deepest part of what is now Wes Watkins reservoir.)

The bit of track in Shawnee that the Santa Fe station sits on is a short 9-mile stub of a line that used to extend from Pauls Valley to Cushing. Most of the tracks north and south of Shawnee were abandoned and removed in the 70's. Today, that line only extends from the Wolverine Tube plant just south of Aydelotte, OK, south to the scrap yard just south of Hardesty Rd, south of Shawnee. Oddly enough, BNSF still retains control of this line, and has trackage rights over the UP/AOK line that comes into Shawnee from the west to get to it. I think they work that line only once or twice a week.

All of that is to say that I am a train nerd. Oh - and also, neither line are really busy, and it would be a perfect fit for commuter service (assuming that there are sufficient customers to make it viable).

As per to MAPS 3 street car, do we have an idea of what the operational hours will be?

The intent is to run late although the frequency may shift from 10 minute intervals at peak times to longer frequency at slow times.

The intent is to run late although the frequency may shift from 10 minute intervals at peak times to longer frequency at slow times.

Naturally.

But is late like 11PM or 2AM?

I think that the public should speak up to the EMBARK board and have influence on that decision....

Id have to imagine theyd be running after NBA games...

Norman City Council Approves Regional Transportation Partnership (http://www.normantranscript.com/news/government/city-council-approves-regional-transportation-partnership/article_2418f275-5abd-5efe-84ad-ce053775f78b.html)

Edmond City Council approved the Regional Transit Authority MOU last night. OKC, Norman, Edmond and Moore are in...Midwest City and Del City still pending.

I thought it was said last night at the ACOG CAC mtg that Del City had approved.

Edmond City Council approved the Regional Transit Authority MOU last night. OKC, Norman, Edmond and Moore are in...Midwest City and Del City still pending.

That's excellent news. Midwest City and Del City at this point are tertiary. I obviously hope that they will participate, especially because I think Tinker connectivity can be massively helpful, but this gives us all of the North/South corridor which is the more important corridor in the metro.

Hopefully we can have revenue models in place in the next 5 years. I would be happy to vote for a one-cent to one-and-one-half-cent tax increase for the RTA. I would definitely like to see some BID taxing as well though.

I thought it was said last night at the ACOG CAC mtg that Del City had approved.

It was on their Sept. 8 agenda...

It was on their Sept. 8 agenda...

I guess that I missed that one...good news...Midwest City will be considering it soon...little chance it won't be approved.

I guess that I missed that one...good news...Midwest City will be considering it soon...little chance it won't be approved.

You don't read the Del City Council Agenda every week?! :p