I really enjoy Live on the Plaza each month. Each time I think how great it would be if the district blocked off 16th between Blackwelder and Indiana on these nights so the crowd would have even more space and wouldn't be separated by speeding cars and cars trying to find parking. The sidewalks were so packed last night it would've been great for the crowds and activities to be able to spill into the middle of the street (similar to H&8th, Premiere on Film Row). This is a tough ask because parking is so scarce, but I think it would improve the event even more.

Now I'm just dreaming, but I'd love to see plans to completely take away parking/street on 16th between Indiana and either Blackwelder or Gatewood and create a true plaza - a car-free walkable space, add a fountain in the middle of the street, maybe some trees....

When LOTP first began, 16th was indeed closed during the event. Plaza purposefully stopped doing so, because they don't want the district's fortunes to revolve around the highs/lows of events and because the scale of Live was getting too large and unmanageable. You say you want Live to be more like H&8th, but Plaza peeps want it to be LESS like H&8th.

They are trying to build a neighborhood that is always buzzing with activity rather than an out-of-control, once-per-month carnival that attracts a crush of people and burdens the surrounding neighborhood. This is even more important in Plaza than in Midtown due to the density of surrounding housing, but mark it down, H&8th won't remain sustainable at its current level/configuration for much longer, either.

Events are a great way to bring focus and attention early-on to an emerging area, but as it matures it must, well...mature.

That is a very dour outlook on what was a great event. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Success or crazy out of control! I guess they should be more like Bricktown.

I'm reminded of Thunder Alley, which made more people excited about OKC than anything else we have ever done.

That is a very dour outlook on what was a great event. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

Success or crazy out of control! I guess they should be more like Bricktown.

I'm reminded of Thunder Alley, which made more people excited about OKC than anything else we have ever done.

I didn't mean for it to come off so negative. I love LOTP and the Plaza District itself. My concern was more with the cars flying by on 16th street last night than the crowding of people. This is a major problem during the day as well. Drivers simply drive too fast through the district and are not attentive to see pedestrians. Within the past few months while spending time at the plaza I've seen two car accidents (including one hit cyclist) and cars going at least 40 MPH with no regard to pedestrians crossing the street.

The last thing I want is for the Plaza to be Bricktown. The two couldn't be more different and I want the Plaza to maintain the neighborhood vibe it has. But I think we can keep an open mind on the relationship between the district and automobiles.

I agree! We really should close off 16th. That's just a no brainer. Have traffic go around, discover CTP! Win-win.

. . . given the growth and popularity for lots of foot traffic in this area, perhaps they could reduce (and "enforce") a 15-20 mph speed limit a la Brookside in Tulsa (it may be 25 there. . . ) on a permanent/every day basis.

Speed bumps, starting from East @ College and from West just before Kentucky.

More than anything it's a lack of awareness of what's going on, and the fact that the entrance to the district from either side does not establish the built environment that exists between Blackwelder and Indiana.

I didn't mean for it to come off so negative...

He was taking a shot at me, not you.

Temporary speed bumps seems like a low-cost quick thing that can be done. I don't personally like to drive more than 25 through there (would prefer less) because people just dart out sometimes and I'm afraid I'm going to accidentally kill a hipster, but whenever I'm driving that speed there are always people right up on my behind like those few extra seconds will matter.

Temporary speed bumps seems like a low-cost quick thing that can be done. I don't personally like to drive more than 25 through there (would prefer less) because people just dart out sometimes and I'm afraid I'm going to accidentally kill a hipster, but whenever I'm driving that speed there are always people right up on my behind like those few extra seconds will matter.

This is a good idea, but I am not sure how you would get a permit to do this on a public street.

One thing I've noticed is there is now a large boarded up section of the Plaza district where the Plaza Discount Store used to be that looks pretty awful. Does anybody know if there are any plans for it?

One thing I've noticed is there is now a large boarded up section of the Plaza district where the Plaza Discount Store used to be that looks pretty awful. Does anybody know if there are any plans for it?

Indiana Center (http://www.okctalk.com/showwiki.php?title=Indiana+Center&highlight=indiana)

Speed bumps (and speed limit signs for that matter) are attempts to fix the symptoms (cars going too fast in a heavily pedestrian-utilized area) rather than the disease (drivers not properly recognizing that it is a pedestrian area). The built environment should provide visual cues that cause people to slow down, without artificial (and often ignored) means. Besides some potential design tweaks (as simple as planters sitting out to the curb, or unique, art-driven and attention-grabbing crosswalk painting (https://www.google.com/search?q=artistic+crosswalks&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=995&tbm=isch&imgil=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%253A%253BVVA59HEOc_9vVM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fudstudio.org%25252Fcapston e2014%25252F%25253Fportfolio%2525253D06-re-imagining-crosswalks&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%253A%252CVVA59HEOc_9vVM%252C_&usg=__3ZN-lV7hIpLSJuCwidvsH-JREfM%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCKHatNLz2MYCFcVZiAoduL4KWQ&ei=xhmkVaHfHsWzoQS4_arIBQ#imgrc=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%3A&usg=__3ZN-lV7hIpLSJuCwidvsH-JREfM%3D)), plus all-way stops at cross streets in the most pedestrian-heavy areas would probably go a long way toward defining it as a walking district. The all-way stops would be challenging due to the stagger of Blackwelder and Gatewood where they cross, but they could be alternated 3-ways perhaps. And though it seems counter-intuitive, even removing the signal at Indiana and converting to 4-way stop would make it more pedestrian-friendly. This is an approach that is heavily encouraged by Jeff Speck in Walkable City.

http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/02/how-make-crosswalk-more-delightful/8487/

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/Colorful-Midtown-crosswalk-a-study-in-art-and-6260952.php

http://weburbanist.com/2008/11/14/street-art-pedestrian-crosswalks/

Also, regarding speed bumps/humps:

Whitepaper: Why Municipalities are Moving Away from Speed Humps (http://www.radarsign.com/why-municipalities-are-moving-away-from-speed-humps/)

Guns Don't Kill People, Speed Bumps Do! | Takoma Park, MD Patch (http://patch.com/maryland/takomapark/bp--guns-dont-kill-people-speed-bumps-do)

My point simply is if these folks are riding my tail when I'm going the speed limit, nothing short of an attention-getting speed bump (or sure, a stop sign) is going to get their attention. I just don't see those kinds of folks as giving a darn about planters. They see 16th as a faster way to get to Penn vs 23rd and until they no longer do, they will keep going that way, in that way (IMO).

All of that said, I love Jeff Speck and would certainly like to see all of his recommendations come to fruition.

The planters (and there are plenty of other approaches) are design elements intended to to make them feel less comfortable speeding. The planters would encroach on the street, which currently feels pretty wide and like a place where you can pretty safely speed. The point is, people drive the speed that they FEEL safe driving. It is a subconscious response. Though the streetscape done in the early aughts was a good start, more can be done to calm traffic. Speed bumps, by the way, are dangerous for bicycles (a huge Plaza constituency) and also for motorcycles.

Also, though signs are not the best approach, they CAN reinforce the built environment approach. The speed limit there should probably be changed to 15, and flashing lights could also be mounted on the signs, and on the stop signs. Car drivers don't as a rule care about pedestrians. They DO generally care about getting a ticket, or getting into a fender bender.

Agree about issues with bikes. Would definitely like to see flashing lights there, both of the signage and of the stepped up enforcement variety.

Speed bumps (and speed limit signs for that matter) are attempts to fix the symptoms (cars going too fast in a heavily pedestrian-utilized area) rather than the disease (drivers not properly recognizing that it is a pedestrian area). The built environment should provide visual cues that cause people to slow down, without artificial (and often ignored) means. Besides some potential design tweaks (as simple as planters sitting out to the curb, or unique, art-driven and attention-grabbing crosswalk painting (https://www.google.com/search?q=artistic+crosswalks&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=995&tbm=isch&imgil=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%253A%253BVVA59HEOc_9vVM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fudstudio.org%25252Fcapston e2014%25252F%25253Fportfolio%2525253D06-re-imagining-crosswalks&source=iu&pf=m&fir=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%253A%252CVVA59HEOc_9vVM%252C_&usg=__3ZN-lV7hIpLSJuCwidvsH-JREfM%3D&ved=0CCkQyjdqFQoTCKHatNLz2MYCFcVZiAoduL4KWQ&ei=xhmkVaHfHsWzoQS4_arIBQ#imgrc=HZIYSpXmJ1i2ZM%3A&usg=__3ZN-lV7hIpLSJuCwidvsH-JREfM%3D)), plus all-way stops at cross streets in the most pedestrian-heavy areas would probably go a long way toward defining it as a walking district. The all-way stops would be challenging due to the stagger of Blackwelder and Gatewood where they cross, but they could be alternated 3-ways perhaps. And though it seems counter-intuitive, even removing the signal at Indiana and converting to 4-way stop would make it more pedestrian-friendly. This is an approach that is heavily encouraged by Jeff Speck in Walkable City.

How to Make Crosswalks Artistically Delightful - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/design/2014/02/how-make-crosswalk-more-delightful/8487/)

Colorful Midtown crosswalk a study in art and motion - Houston Chronicle (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/transportation/article/Colorful-Midtown-crosswalk-a-study-in-art-and-6260952.php)

Literal Street Art Transforms Pedestrian Crosswalks | Urbanist (http://weburbanist.com/2008/11/14/street-art-pedestrian-crosswalks/)

Agreed minus the artistic sidewalks. Those are more distracting for a driver then anything.

The planters (and there are plenty of other approaches) are design elements intended to to make them feel less comfortable speeding. The planters would encroach on the street, which currently feels pretty wide and like a place where you can pretty safely speed. The point is, people drive the speed that they FEEL safe driving. It is a subconscious response. Though the streetscape done in the early aughts was a good start, more can be done to calm traffic. Speed bumps, by the way, are dangerous for bicycles (a huge Plaza constituency) and also for motorcycles.

Also, though signs are not the best approach, they CAN reinforce the built environment approach. The speed limit there should probably be changed to 15, and flashing lights could also be mounted on the signs, and on the stop signs. Car drivers don't as a rule care about pedestrians. They DO generally care about getting a ticket, or getting into a fender bender.

You are absolutely correct. Here in Portland, even where I live in the suburbs, the lanes are narrowed and you generally drive the speed limit.

The street I live on is signed for 35 mph, and I naturally drive 35 mph just because of the lane widths. I tried (as a test and at risk of getting a ticket) going 45 mph, and I felt like I was considerably speeding.

Also, the interstates in downtown are all 55 mph, and outside of downtown are 60 mph. And I rarely find myself going faster because of how narrow (also rush hour traffic (7am straight through to 7pm...) keeps you at a steady 12 mph.:))

Speed limit signs don't do squat, it's all about the design of the street. Until OKC PW gets out of the habit of 55 mph thoroughfares signed to 45, this will be a continual battle.

Running a white stripe along the curbs down 16th would make the road feel narrower and would make people drive slower because they would perceive the lane to be narrower. Another suggestion would be to expand the double yellow lines. Instead of having them inches apart, separate them by a wider gap which would result in the lanes being narrowed.

The best solution would be to run a green painted bike lane down the street. That would really narrow it down, and as a result would also slow drivers down.

You're assuming people wont drive on the bike lane. Based on what I've seen with the few bike lanes we do have, I wouldn't make that assumption.

You're assuming people wont drive on the bike lane. Based on what I've seen with the few bike lanes we do have, I wouldn't make that assumption.

That is true. I did not want to point that out, as to seem overly cynical.

I have observed many people using the bike lane as a vehicular traffic lane. Especially on Walker and Sheridan (Film Row).

You're assuming people wont drive on the bike lane. Based on what I've seen with the few bike lanes we do have, I wouldn't make that assumption.

The green would help and is not something that we currently have in this city.

RE: Speed Bumps.

I don't think I would want them through the district, but the problem to me is that between Classen and Blackwelder and Indiana and Penn it feels like a wider, well-lit residential street. It's not uncommon for people to approach 45 MPH on their approach to the district, so by the time they slow down at either entrance point, they are still going 35MPH instead of a more appropriate 20MPH. So Urbanized, if you're recommending those things starting all the way back at Classen and Penn and working into the district, then I think that should help, but if we're not doing that until the district has already started, we probably end up exacerbating the problem.

The best solution would be to run a green painted bike lane down the street. That would really narrow it down, and as a result would also slow drivers down.

I don't see this as feasible -- the road is only 26' across, and currently traffic management gets nervous at the idea of any travel lane being less than 11' in width. There are gutters on either side too, so a bike lane would need to take up too much of the road. 2' for gutters 4' for bike lanes (less than ideal) would be 6' from each side, leaving 7' for each travel lane. Cycle infrastructure should cross 16th, not travel along it IMO. 17th is a much better street for cycling.

Your other points about strategically placing the white and yellow lines might help, but I think more full stops through the district would help immensely. If taking 16th is slower than the surrounding roads, drivers will be less likely to take it.

Are there other examples in OKC where a neighborhood district has grown to be too big/popular for its urban context?

Is it possible to line the street where parking is available in front of homes on NW 16th (currently not allowed)? Perhaps parked vehicles would encourage slower traffic...I know on other streets (17th for example), cars drive slower because cars are parked on the street and there are stop signs at each intersection.

I don't see this as feasible -- the road is only 26' across, and currently traffic management gets nervous at the idea of any travel lane being less than 11' in width. There are gutters on either side too, so a bike lane would need to take up too much of the road. 2' for gutters 4' for bike lanes (less than ideal) would be 6' from each side, leaving 7' for each travel lane. Cycle infrastructure should cross 16th, not travel along it IMO. 17th is a much better street for cycling.

Your other points about strategically placing the white and yellow lines might help, but I think more full stops through the district would help immensely. If taking 16th is slower than the surrounding roads, drivers will be less likely to take it.

Are there other examples in OKC where a neighborhood district has grown to be too big/popular for its urban context?

Excellent points.

I went out and measured my street this morning in Portland (well the yellow stripe width). They put a 1.25 foot gap between the two strips, which makes each lane feel a bit narrower. The yellow paint also seems to be a little wider than standard.

I think your idea with more physical stop signs, combined with doing some enhanced striping like I have given examples for could both work together to slow traffic down.

Hipster Neighborhoods - The Brooklyn of Every State (http://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/hipster-neighborhoods-the-brooklyn-of-every-state?share=c)

Oklahoma
Plaza District (Oklahoma City)
Does your coffee shop have a toast menu? If the answer is no, then it's not Brooklyn enough for us. Luckily for the good people of the Plaza District, there's District House, which also makes sure to source its beans from a direct-trade/mostly organic roaster. Since toast isn't exactly a meal, Empire Slice House does beer and creatively topped pies (the Brussell Westbrook with Brussels sprouts!), there's modernized pub food and even more beer on the patio at Saints, and modern takes on the Moscow Mule abound at, umm, The Mule. And because it wouldn't be a Brooklyn without vintage everything, there's secondhand goodness (records, clothes) at Dig It and Bad Granny's Bazaar.

Hipster Neighborhoods - The Brooklyn of Every State (http://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/hipster-neighborhoods-the-brooklyn-of-every-state?share=c)

Oklahoma
Plaza District (Oklahoma City)
Does your coffee shop have a toast menu? If the answer is no, then it's not Brooklyn enough for us. Luckily for the good people of the Plaza District, there's District House, which also makes sure to source its beans from a direct-trade/mostly organic roaster. Since toast isn't exactly a meal, Empire Slice House does beer and creatively topped pies (the Brussell Westbrook with Brussels sprouts!), there's modernized pub food and even more beer on the patio at Saints, and modern takes on the Moscow Mule abound at, umm, The Mule. And because it wouldn't be a Brooklyn without vintage everything, there's secondhand goodness (records, clothes) at Dig It and Bad Granny's Bazaar.

Awesome! I've been to two of those - Plaza of course and Bayview in Milwaukee. Anyone else? :)

Really surprised that Tulsa didn't make this list.

I knew before looking that Silverlake in L.A. would be California's entry.

It's arguably the hipster center of the universe.

Does anybody know the story of what happened to Urban Wineworks? Is anything slated to fill the vacancy?

Does anybody know the story of what happened to Urban Wineworks? Is anything slated to fill the vacancy?

The new owners of that building (Steve Mason & Co.) have been interviewing restaurant groups to find a new tenant and concept.

They had one chosen but are now opening up the process again. I believe they'll have a decision soon and then you'll see a remodel and new restaurant in that space.

Plaza progress: Property values continue to rise as new businesses open on NW 16th

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record February 26, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – An area that locals once avoided because of safety concerns now has a combined market value of nearly $5 million, a total that will rise as development continues.

The Plaza District’s combined property values increased 14 percent from 2014 to 2015, said Cayla Lewis, Plaza District Association executive director. The district encompasses about 124,000 square feet on NW 16th Street between N. Blackwelder Avenue and N. Indiana Avenue. In 2014, the district was valued at just over $4 million.

The district is 98 percent occupied. There are 45 businesses in the area that provided more than 400 jobs, gave an outlet to 1,350 artists and welcomed about 1,000 students in 2015, Lewis said. Her association held its annual State of the Plaza event on Wednesday night at The Parish.

Since 2009, association leaders have tracked retail sales of three businesses. One district tenant’s sales grew from $136,000 in 2011 to more than $300,000 the following year. In 2015, that same business had about $460,000 in sales.

Some of the successes of the district business include Pie Junkie selling 1,200 pies on Pi Day, and another 1,700 pies on Black Pie Day, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving.

But people came to the Plaza for more than sweets, Lewis said. People visited for 80 events at PhotoArt Studios. Another 16,500 people went to shows at Lyric Theatre.

People purchased more than 300,000 pizza pie slices from Empire Slice House. That equals 37,222 pies.

Besides food, people visit the district for events such as Live on the Plaza and the annual festival. This year, two new events joined the roster: 16th on 16, a New Year’s Eve celebration, and Day of the Dead Festival. In total, 26,700 came to the district for one-time events, and Live on the Plaza attracted 1,500 to 5,000 people each month.

In 2016, a new restaurant will fill a previous apartment space. Aimee and Jeff Struble of 180 Development Group are renovating the former apartment building on N. Blackwelder Avenue into a first-floor restaurant and second-floor office. Restaurant company 84 Hospitality Group, led by Rachel Cope, will office upstairs. She and Jeff Chanchaleune are behind Goro Ramen + Izakaya, a Japanese pub that will open in the building. Chanchaleune helped create the Kaiteki Ramen food truck.

He said at the State of the Plaza that the Goro menu will have three types of ramen, steamed buns, 16 small plates and a cocktail list curated by Cope.

The restaurant occupies 1,800 square feet and sits 45 to 50 people. It opens this summer.

Cope started in the Plaza District with Empire Slice House. She said she loves the area and is working out details for a third concept in the area.

The Strubles, who first invested in the district in 2006, are making history by constructing its first new building in more than 10 years. It sits on the west side of Chiltepe’s Taco Joint & More, near Indiana Avenue. The two-story, 4,800 square-foot building will be complete by late summer, Aimee Struble said. The spaces can be leased in two 2,400-square-foot blocks, or four 1,200-square-foot spaces.

Aimee Ahpeatone with Sweet Sixteenth LLC is opening a natural nail salon and beauty bar this spring. It is the last business to fill the Market 16 center, which was previously The Plaza Discount Store. Ahpeatone and partner Steve Mason renovated the building to have five storefronts, with four artist spaces that have an alleyway entrance.

One of the new tenants, Folk.Life, came from Western Avenue.

“I wanted to be here since before I opened on Western Avenue, which was great, but it was not the Plaza District,” said Shelly States, owner of Folk.Life.

She worked with Dig It! and Everything Goes Dance Studio to host the district’s first Day of the Dead Festival. The Sunday-afternoon event brought in 8,000 people, and photos were featured on HuffingtonPost.com.

Market 16 is also continuing to bring in new artists with the ever-changing Plaza Walls mural project. The project encompasses the alley walls behind Bad Granny’s Bazaar down to Market 16 and Bad Granny’s wall on Indiana Avenue. The artwork will change as co-curators Dylan Bradway and Kris Kanaly see fit. The Indiana Avenue wall will be updated before every Live on the Plaza, which is the first Friday of every month.

Bradway said it took discussion with the city’s Arts Commission and the Urban Design Commission to get the changing work approved without having to go back to both entities for approval each time new work is added. Kanaly said it gives artists a safe and legal place where they can paint, as well as help create activity in the alley.

Double post

This little building just north of Saints at 1708 N. Gatewood has received a nice renovation and is now for lease:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1708gatewooda.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1708gatewoodb.jpg

This little building just north of Saints at 1708 N. Gatewood has received a nice renovation and is now for lease:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1708gatewooda.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/1708gatewoodb.jpg


Agreed. I walked past it last week on my way to a show at Lyric Theatre.

Wow, that looks great, could be used for any type of establishment. Hope it leases soon.

Why the hell do people paint brick???? Thank you to these owners who took justice into their own hands and righted the wrongs of the previous owners.

Why the hell do people paint brick???? Thank you to these owners who took justice into their own hands and righted the wrongs of the previous owners.

I also wonder why so many developers in the 70s and 80s thought it was a good idea to cover brick Art Deco structures with a metal siding facade. There are so many examples still scattered throughout the urban core.

^^^^^^^^
It mostly happened earlier than that; in the sixties and even a bit before that in some cases. It was a response to the emergence of the suburban shopping mall. You'll notice that most of these changes happened to buildings with retail frontage. Shopping patterns were changing, mostly due to post-war suburban migration and the resultant driving patterns. It simply became easier for most people to head to a mall or strip center.

But - as usual - the data was misinterpreted and the cause misdiagnosed. Shop owners felt like the change in shopping patterns were due to a rejection of old in favor of modern, so they altered their facades in an attempt to mimic the modern/mid-century malls they were competing against. Of course these alterations were usually ham-handed attempts to cover architectural details that made a building look "old" (which was considered to be a negative). It inadvertently robbed older buildings of their best features - their character - homogenized them, and in the long run made them more vulnerable to apathy, abandonment and removal.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-plaza-district-set-to-add-much-needed-parking/article/5495574

No doubt that parking is an issue, however I always walk by those duplexes and think how charming they are. hate to see them gone. :(

No doubt that parking is an issue, however I always walk by those duplexes and think how charming they are. hate to see them gone. :(

From what I can tell from the article, I think just the one duplex is being torn down and the other one closest to The Mule will remain.

Well I guess one is better than none.

If it were anyone else, I would think they could fix it, but knowing Jeff and what he has done in the Plaza District, I trust that it is really beyond repair:

The project, Struble said, will include more than a dozen angled street spots. The application also calls for demolition of a duplex built in 1921.

“It needs a lot of work,” Struble said. “It has foundation issues; the brick is bad. It's coming down.”

I really like that the new parking is more than a few feet away from 16th. This should allow more visitation without the main drag losing it's walkable/bikeable feel. Also, trust in Struble.

It's like the virus we can't get rid of. No matter how much we build, how many neighborhoods we revitalize, we just can't stop ruining them by insisting on parking, can we? I don't know much about Struble (I should probably learn), but why on earth would we want to build more parking?

It's like the virus we can't get rid of. No matter how much we build, how many neighborhoods we revitalize, we just can't stop ruining them by insisting on parking, can we? I don't know much about Struble (I should probably learn), but why on earth would we want to build more parking?

Because people in Edmond have money.

It's like the virus we can't get rid of. No matter how much we build, how many neighborhoods we revitalize, we just can't stop ruining them by insisting on parking, can we? I don't know much about Struble (I should probably learn), but why on earth would we want to build more parking?

Read the article below about the developer Jeff Struble. The last thing he wants is to turn the Plaza a sprawling suburban wasteland of parking lots.

http://newsok.com/article/5466437?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NIC-Twitter

It's like the virus we can't get rid of. No matter how much we build, how many neighborhoods we revitalize, we just can't stop ruining them by insisting on parking, can we? I don't know much about Struble (I should probably learn), but why on earth would we want to build more parking?

Read the article below about the developer Jeff Struble. The last thing he wants is to turn the Plaza a sprawling suburban wasteland of parking lots.

http://newsok.com/article/5466437?utm_source=NewsOK.com&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NIC-Twitter

why can't we require STRUCTURED PARKING in the core? Why do we always have to tear down buildings and SETTLE for parking LOTS!!!

23rd Street Uptown will have a parking LOT for the Tower.

Now, the Plaza will tear down a townhome building to expand/develop a parking LOT.

Uggh - both of these could easily have been parking garages (with more spaces than a lot) and allow retail on the bottom, thereby expanding and enhancing the district they reside AND prividing additional revenue for the ownership. Why can't OKC get behind this and why can't city leadership REQUIRE this for lots of a certain size in the CORE and/or if ANY building is town down if it is to be parking then a structure must exist (preferably with retail on the bottom)?? Perhaps make restriction on lots to X number of years (as in ONE year) then there must be a structure or a building.

I just don't get it, why does this city insist on having a prarie mentality in its core? Don't we have enough of that just 10 minutes in any direction from Downtown? why not insist on the core of OKC to be as urban as possible, again - you'd even get MORE cars/people into the city with structured parking vs. LOTS. ...

I agree with you that OKC does a poor job of choosing lots over garages in many circumstances. However, I would never support a parking garage going in the Plaza. You realize Classen 10 Penn is a neighborhood, right? The blocks due south of the Plaza are residential. It wouldn't fly from a zoning standpoint and it would certainly ruin the aesthetics.

Please understand I am very much against leveling a bunch of homes to create more ground parking. I think this one lot is a good step in the right direction as Struble seems to have thought through where, if at all, a lot is appropriate. If he lacked vision it would be apparent in the Plaza by now. I think this lot will be helpful, and I support Struble's plans, but I do hope it is the last addition to parking in the area.

Maybe one day a streetcar will provide transport to/from the Plaza and Downtown!

why can't we require STRUCTURED PARKING in the core? Why do we always have to tear down buildings and SETTLE for parking LOTS!!!

23rd Street Uptown will have a parking LOT for the Tower.

Now, the Plaza will tear down a townhome building to expand/develop a parking LOT.

Uggh - both of these could easily have been parking garages (with more spaces than a lot) and allow retail on the bottom, thereby expanding and enhancing the district they reside AND prividing additional revenue for the ownership. Why can't OKC get behind this and why can't city leadership REQUIRE this for lots of a certain size in the CORE and/or if ANY building is town down if it is to be parking then a structure must exist (preferably with retail on the bottom)?? Perhaps make restriction on lots to X number of years (as in ONE year) then there must be a structure or a building.

I just don't get it, why does this city insist on having a prarie mentality in its core? Don't we have enough of that just 10 minutes in any direction from Downtown? why not insist on the core of OKC to be as urban as possible, again - you'd even get MORE cars/people into the city with structured parking vs. LOTS. ...

Because structured parking is extremely expensive. Besides, all a parking garage would do is reduce the walk you have to The Mule or whatever by a block or two. Its not as if you cant find a spot to park within the area.

Agree with those that suggest structured parking in the Plaza would be overkill. I say that as someone that cringes every time I walk/drive past a surface lot in the core.

The best solution for the parking problem in the Plaza District is to create street parking on the adjacent streets. There is a huge lot next to the Lyric Academy, a 35-40 spot lot across from Lyric and a lot of street parking. I have been to shows at Lyric and to restaurants in the Plaza district and have no problems parking on 17th street and walking one block... It's an f-ing block!!!! Get out there and walk a little bit instead of complaining (not directed at anyone on this board, but people I have talked to) of the parking issues. If all the streets were full of street parking from 13th-18th street and the side streets to the east and west, then I would agree that we have a parking problem...

Agree with those that suggest structured parking in the Plaza would be overkill. I say that as someone that cringes every time I walk/drive past a surface lot in the core.

But that's in the urban core, where they can go up 5-10 stories. Even if you did one two level parking garage in the Plaza District, it would be so much more invasive to the surrounding neighborhood than a 10 story parking garage on Bricktown.

I agree with you that OKC does a poor job of choosing lots over garages in many circumstances. However, I would never support a parking garage going in the Plaza. You realize Classen 10 Penn is a neighborhood, right? The blocks due south of the Plaza are residential. It wouldn't fly from a zoning standpoint and it would certainly ruin the aesthetics.

Please understand I am very much against leveling a bunch of homes to create more ground parking. I think this one lot is a good step in the right direction as Struble seems to have thought through where, if at all, a lot is appropriate. If he lacked vision it would be apparent in the Plaza by now. I think this lot will be helpful, and I support Struble's plans, but I do hope it is the last addition to parking in the area.

Maybe one day a streetcar will provide transport to/from the Plaza and Downtown!

I'm pretty anti-parking garage in the Plaza too, it just wouldn't fit. I think one could work somewhere in Uptown, but the Plaza is much less commercial and such a smaller area.

But that's in the urban core, where they can go up 5-10 stories. Even if you did one two level parking garage in the Plaza District, it would be so much more invasive to the surrounding neighborhood than a 10 story parking garage on Bricktown.

Which is exactly why I think structured parking would be overkill.

It's like the virus we can't get rid of. No matter how much we build, how many neighborhoods we revitalize, we just can't stop ruining them by insisting on parking, can we? I don't know much about Struble (I should probably learn), but why on earth would we want to build more parking?

This is probably the one thing you and me agree on.