I don't live in OKC but it seems the the rank and file of the Police Department and the Fire Department put their faith in a campaign proposed by their union leadership....................and it backfired on them. It's not the first time this has happened to a union and it won't be the last. A good move on the part of the police & firemen would be to elect new union membership. This would go a long way towards mending fences with the city & the citizens.

A vote for MAPS 3 wasn't a vote against policemen & firemen. No one disagrees that they have staffing problems. It's time for the police & fire department to work with the city & it's citizens to come up with a creative way to solve the problem. Keep in mind that you will catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Trying to defeat MAPS 3 was a vinegar approach.

Nobody wants to believe this. Maybe they do not care. Maybe they're just not hearing. Maybe they do not want to hear. But the fact is this. Firefighters Union President Phil Sipe DID NOT force the Firefighters to oppose MAPS, nor did the Executive Board. At the Union meeting he presented and offered the pros, and the cons, the whats, and what ifs. After that the members, by majority vote, MANDATED that the Union oppose MAPS.

Nobody wants to believe this. Maybe they do not care. Maybe they're just not hearing. Maybe they do not want to hear. But the fact is this. Firefighters Union President Phil Sipe DID NOT force the Firefighters to oppose MAPS, nor did the Executive Board. At the Union meeting he presented and offered the pros, and the cons, the whats, and what ifs. After that the members, by majority vote, MANDATED that the Union oppose MAPS.

Doesn't matter now. Damage done. People voted.

Doesn't matter now. Damage done. People voted.Well then I guess it doesn't matter.

Nobody wants to believe this. Maybe they do not care. Maybe they're just not hearing. Maybe they do not want to hear. But the fact is this. Firefighters Union President Phil Sipe DID NOT force the Firefighters to oppose MAPS, nor did the Executive Board. At the Union meeting he presented and offered the pros, and the cons, the whats, and what ifs. After that the members, by majority vote, MANDATED that the Union oppose MAPS.

And if the 'no' campaign not been run in such a scorched earth manner, y'all wouldn't have these issues with image.

For me, it's just business and politics. Other folks take it much more personally.

I'm glad to see that you support police and fire. I will tell you why police officers will never be willing to give up three 10 hour shifts with out a fight. 1 the shifts all over lap. 3rd over laps 1st by 30 min. 1st over laps 2nd by 1 hour. 2nd over laps 3rd by 4hrs 30 min. There are many reasons for this. No laps in coverage when one shift is getting off the other is coming on and there are always police in the field. That way if you are a bad guy you cant increase you odds of getting away with commiting a crime at shift change. Also second and third shift over lap for 4hrs 3o min. this is to put two shifts out when the highest number of calls is coming in. It also gives every officer in patrol every other weekend off for time with thier family even if guy is just out of rookie school. If you happen to work 3rd shift you can also still have friends and family outside of cops. Otherwise how would you go from a day time sleep pattern to a night time sleep pattern in two days with out staying awake for 24hr strait? I wish the public who dont have police ties would take a little time to learn more about why they did what they did. Would you be willing to give up your freedom of speech for your job? The union is there only voice. They love this city and its poeple. If you have a question I will do my best to get it answered for you without any political filtering just a street cops point of view. the guy you could get when you call 911.

I'm glad to see that you support police and fire. I will tell you why police officers will never be willing to give up three 10 hour shifts with out a fight. 1 the shifts all over lap. 3rd over laps 1st by 30 min. 1st over laps 2nd by 1 hour. 2nd over laps 3rd by 4hrs 30 min. There are many reasons for this. No laps in coverage when one shift is getting off the other is coming on and there are always police in the field. That way if you are a bad guy you cant increase you odds of getting away with commiting a crime at shift change. Also second and third shift over lap for 4hrs 3o min. this is to put two shifts out when the highest number of calls is coming in. It also gives every officer in patrol every other weekend off for time with thier family even if guy is just out of rookie school. If you happen to work 3rd shift you can also still have friends and family outside of cops. Otherwise how would you go from a day time sleep pattern to a night time sleep pattern in two days with out staying awake for 24hr strait? I wish the public who dont have police ties would take a little time to learn more about why they did what they did. Would you be willing to give up your freedom of speech for your job? The union is there only voice. They love this city and its poeple. If you have a question I will do my best to get it answered for you without any political filtering just a street cops point of view. the guy you could get when you call 911.Thanks. I really did not know any of this and appreciate reading your comments. It makes more sense to me now.

Don't judge every person in uniform for the actions of the group. I think every citizen should treat police and fire personnel with the respect you would expect them to give you.

I don't think anyone is advocating disrespecting the individuals, but instead hesitating to cooperate with the unions that took on these tactics.


Soonerguru, we have a 92% approval rating with our citizens,

You might need to take another survey after the last few weeks.

I'm with betts. I'm willing to hear out both sides on this. I'm not convinced that more manpower is the only solution. We need to hear out other options, then decide what to do.

I wish the public who dont have police ties would take a little time to learn more about why they did what they did.

I actually did this and I'm glad I did. Other departments have these alternative shifts and the officers in those departments have extremely high divorce rates and other problems.

I think OKC does a great job in attracting top quality police officers and to continue to do so, we have to make the total package something which is appealing.

Sooner,

That was gracious? I’m glad I’m not around your house at Christmas time. I see you really dug deep for that one. Sorry for the late response but I’ve been out with the rest of the “goon” squad at the fire station today and I don’t get the opportunity to post until later in the evenings. (Been trying since 5pm)

Let me start off with congrats to those that were in support of maps 3. I hope that all the hopes and dreams of it come true and create thousands of jobs and increase the tax revenue for the city. As I’ve said all along “I support the maps projects but not the most recent one”. The voters have spoken and now it’s our job to the city leaders accountable for what they have promised.

As a longtime lurker of Okctalk but only frequently a poster; aka troll, I would like to thank all those longtime residents of this site that usually contribute their opinions and post accurate and fair information. Doug is at the top of the list regardless of the issues. It was only due to the lies, half truths and basic nastiness of some of the pro maps people that I even got involved in posting to this forum. As a follower, I’ve always been able to read thru the nuts that post radical thoughts and ideas in the various forums and have been able to find the truth by following the evidence. While I didn’t expect to be treated with “kit” gloves when I began posting, I was surprised by the ignorance of many supposed informed and frequent posters. I been on both sides of the “blue collar”, “white collar” and know how the game is played to suit the side that you are on at the moment. I’m glad to hear some of the reason posted by those here not wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater post election time. Many here are “union” bashers; many are unaware of what their police and fire personnel do for a living and I suspect that many have never had to play the politics game with they city. I have had the opportunity to do so for the past 23 years and can tell you first hand that sometimes it’s not pretty. But that’s really a topic for another post.

I wanted to tell all of you “thank you” for igniting the fire (so to speak) in me to respond to any of the topics that I believe I have adequate knowledge and opinion of in the future. Rest assured that you will begin to see my sometimes “strong and passionate” opinion of those things that I know to be true; and to call out the “nut and liars” that try to influence those cold and timid souls that know neither victory nor defeat.

FYI- The City of Oklahoma City broke ground on new Fire Station #6 today. It was part of the 2000 bond issue that was approved by our gracious and supportive public that we serve; even when they aren’t very happy with us. They are why we exist. Not the city leadership that sometimes mires the facts. But I’m sure we’ll get to discuss things like here shortly.

Hoping all stay warm on this cold night.

barnold, I hope you stick around. I think that having direct contact with fire and police is valuable for the public. Sometimes it's just a heck of a lot better to get your facts from the horse's mouth than it is to get it from the PIO.

Thank you for your service.

Midtowner,
Thank you for the invite. As I said, I've watched for a long time but am just now getting involved and intend to stay involved.

I agree, it's much easier to make informed decisions when you have the facts from all sides. To that end, the general public has always been free to come into any fire or police station, schedule ride alongs or get really involved in the inner workings in the citizens academies. Unfortunately they only run a handful of these each year and are limited in size.

...
FYI- The City of Oklahoma City broke ground on new Fire Station #6 today. ...
Hoping all stay warm on this cold night.

Where is the location for new Station 6?
Staying very warm, but bama based son couldn't help but send a plug that since it was 72 earlier, he had to open a window and shut down his heater.
I told him that's how love/hate moments happen and to be safe until he gets home for the holidays later this month.

Good Christmas coming up. All three kiddos home, granddaughter home, grandson to be also here (well, duh.)

Peace out.

Midtowner,
Thank you for the invite. As I said, I've watched for a long time but am just now getting involved and intend to stay involved.

I agree, it's much easier to make informed decisions when you have the facts from all sides. To that end, the general public has always been free to come into any fire or police station, schedule ride alongs or get really involved in the inner workings in the citizens academies. Unfortunately they only run a handful of these each year and are limited in size.

It's tough to do that when most folks have to work. I for one had the privilege of covering a lot of the activities of the Edmond FD for several months when I was working on my undergrad at UCO (I was an anchor/reporter for the UCO news program). I learned a lot about the local fire department, how things worked, etc.

It's amazing how intense and in depth and constant training is at the Edmond FD. I can only assume OKC is the same.

As far as police go, I've been planning (but haven't quite gotten around to) a ride along with a fraternity brother for quite some time. I've heard some pretty amazing war stories from my friends who interned with the D.A.'s office about their ride alongs.

I have tremendous respect for our emergency services and I hope that as a city, we can give them whatever they need to get the job done.

Kevinpate,
New station 6 is going to be located just NE of Bass Pro site. It is being cleaned up by the OERB since it used to be an old oil well site. Actual construction on the building should begin in about 3 wks. or so. It will replace the old #6 which used to sit just north of Presby hospital on Lincoln.

Could be worse weather, heard from a FF friend of mine in Green Bay and they had 14" of snow on the ground at 10am and were expecting 40mph winds tonight.

Midtown,
I frequently work with the Edmond FD since my second job is training firefighters. They put just as much time and effort into staying trained and ready as the OCFD does and are good to work with.
Understandable about time commitments. My wife and kids would shoot me if I took on another project. They're just happy that I drew off for Christmas this year. 1st time in over 20 years that I've been scheduled to work it that I'll be off.

Sooner,

That was gracious? I’m glad I’m not around your house at Christmas time. I see you really dug deep for that one. Sorry for the late response but I’ve been out with the rest of the “goon” squad at the fire station today and I don’t get the opportunity to post until later in the evenings. (Been trying since 5pm)

Let me start off with congrats to those that were in support of maps 3. I hope that all the hopes and dreams of it come true and create thousands of jobs and increase the tax revenue for the city. As I’ve said all along “I support the maps projects but not the most recent one”. The voters have spoken and now it’s our job to the city leaders accountable for what they have promised.

As a longtime lurker of Okctalk but only frequently a poster; aka troll, I would like to thank all those longtime residents of this site that usually contribute their opinions and post accurate and fair information. Doug is at the top of the list regardless of the issues. It was only due to the lies, half truths and basic nastiness of some of the pro maps people that I even got involved in posting to this forum. As a follower, I’ve always been able to read thru the nuts that post radical thoughts and ideas in the various forums and have been able to find the truth by following the evidence. While I didn’t expect to be treated with “kit” gloves when I began posting, I was surprised by the ignorance of many supposed informed and frequent posters. I been on both sides of the “blue collar”, “white collar” and know how the game is played to suit the side that you are on at the moment. I’m glad to hear some of the reason posted by those here not wanting to throw out the baby with the bathwater post election time. Many here are “union” bashers; many are unaware of what their police and fire personnel do for a living and I suspect that many have never had to play the politics game with they city. I have had the opportunity to do so for the past 23 years and can tell you first hand that sometimes it’s not pretty. But that’s really a topic for another post.

I wanted to tell all of you “thank you” for igniting the fire (so to speak) in me to respond to any of the topics that I believe I have adequate knowledge and opinion of in the future. Rest assured that you will begin to see my sometimes “strong and passionate” opinion of those things that I know to be true; and to call out the “nut and liars” that try to influence those cold and timid souls that know neither victory nor defeat.

FYI- The City of Oklahoma City broke ground on new Fire Station #6 today. It was part of the 2000 bond issue that was approved by our gracious and supportive public that we serve; even when they aren’t very happy with us. They are why we exist. Not the city leadership that sometimes mires the facts. But I’m sure we’ll get to discuss things like here shortly.

Hoping all stay warm on this cold night.

Appreciate what you do to keep us safe. I've stayed out of the MAPS debate on here for the most part because both sides got very ugly. Plus I live in Edmond...

Anyway, I would have voted yes for MAPS had I been able to vote. Just too much to lose in my opinion. But I sure hope his sheds some light on the funding issues with F&P. I really hope something is done soon to get you guys what you need. Emergency services is NOT a place to skimp on IMO...

Excellent post, barnold, a few posts back (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/20110-trying-gracious-3.html#post280244), and thanks for the compliment.

Any public board like this one is going to be a mix of just about everything and everyone and this place is no exception. And anyone, including me to be sure, can and will get their feathers ruffled up from time to time -- when one's underwear gets way too tight for comfort, lots of things are said which would otherwise not be. It does sometimes take a thick skin and a good bit of patience, and humility, to stick around for a long while, which I hope that you will do, just as Midtowner has already said, and which you've already said that you intend to do. I see that you are "fire,"' like a new friend of mine made during this recent process, Andy157. Several, I'd suppose many if not most, members here welcome the kind of input that you and others have to offer.

As to MAPS 3, I'm just guessing, but my guess is that the MAPS 3 experience has perhaps presented OkcTalk with the greatest single-issue challenge to its existence. I cannot recall anything else here quite like it.

I say, "challenge to its existence" because the polemics which have been bandied about here for the past several weeks can (I'm guessing but the guess is logical) cause some existing members to just quit participating ... unless a member is predisposed to masochism. Who else needs or wants the grief?

When the mainstay of the forum's existence, this Okc Area Metro Talk part, becomes almost wholly consumed with only one topic and when that one topic generates a goodly number of messages which begin to take on the collective appearance of a group of unruly children (all guys ... I can't recall one gal who acted in an unruly fashion) who are locked in a room with each other without any adult supervision, I would suppose that such a circumstance could well cause some existing members to say, "This isn't what I'm here for and I don't need that," and they simply walk away.

The second challenge relates to the attractiveness of the forum to potential new forum members. When some unsuspecting newbies might drop in, perhaps having heard that this was a good place to discuss any and all issues which might pop up which concern our city, when such people might drop in and they see nothing but the above over a several-week period of time, they might easily say, "This isn't what I expected. I've got better things to do than become involved with this forum."

So, the spike which must have occurred in forum membership here by anti-MAPS people becoming members here who had not previously been involved here does not necessarily bode well for the overall membership health of the forum once the single-issue has been resolved, particularly if many of those who were part of the "membership spike" drop away. Formerly active members may or may not become active again. Newbies who peeked into the forum during this "zone" and were appalled by what they saw may not be inclined to look again and reconsider for quite some time.

I'm rambling and I'll just end this post by saying that the patience and forbearance of Pete in relaxing forum conduct rules in favor of not inhibiting open discussion/debate on perhaps the most singularly important Oklahoma City issue in many years, while laudable, most certainly has had its down side as to the OkcTalk forum, generally, and about that I'm sure that he is well aware. But, after all is said and done, this is his place, and he gets to make the rules.

For what it's worth, my evening of celebratory gloating is now over! Now I'm just getting pumped thinking about what the future holds for our city!

For what it's worth, my evening of celebratory gloating is now over! Now I'm just getting pumped thinking about what the future holds for our city!
Good. Keep it up! I share your optimism.

Feelings are checked at the door- check
Skin is like an elephant- check

Arguing/debating is more like a sport for me, but is always based on reality and not on the ineffective strategy of purely hope.

Look forward to future as well. Whether I like it not at times, I'm part of it and what it holds for my children and grandchildren's future. I'm a lifer'.

Doug, once again you have eloquently voiced the facts of what the last few weeks were like and am sure you speak for many of us who have been long time visitors and participators to this forum. I visit OKCTalk to find out what is going on around town and mainly frequent the threads in OKC Metro Area Talk. I try to ignore the Politics threads altogether because at heart I really do hate confrontation. My favorite reads of my typical day had turned into an ugly place that after a while I just had to ignore. I made up my mind about MAPS III the day the projects were announced and no arguing was going to change my mind. It appears that barnold will stick around and be a good contributor probably because he knows what the "real" OKCTalk is all about. I am glad for that and am sure he will have much to offer in the future.

Doug, once again you have eloquently voiced the facts of what the last few weeks were like and am sure you speak for many of us who have been long time visitors and participators to this forum. I visit OKCTalk to find out what is going on around town and mainly frequent the threads in OKC Metro Area Talk. I try to ignore the Politics threads altogether because at heart I really do hate confrontation. My favorite reads of my typical day had turned into an ugly place that after a while I just had to ignore. I made up my mind about MAPS III the day the projects were announced and no arguing was going to change my mind. It appears that barnold will stick around and be a good contributor probably because he knows what the "real" OKCTalk is all about. I am glad for that and am sure he will have much to offer in the future.Come on people enough already. If you keep this up he (barnold, not Doug) won't be able to get his head in the door........ LYLAB

crack me up......i know where you work, don't make me come down there

I think he might be right. I've seen your head.

Thanks barnold. Wasn't sure if it was the BT one or another one.
And on the weather, flipping the telly on earlier reminded me why I nevah evah considered moving to the NE. I don't mind snow, but ICK!