rant/
For a city with so many plans and high hopes for the future, i can't for the life of me understand how one of the most basic needs for a major metro area continues to go unmet. The roads i'm forced to drive on daily in this city are nothing short of an embarrassment for the city. Am i really expecting too much when all i want are smooth driving surfaces? Is it that unrealistic to expect not to have to dodge pot holes the size of golf bunkers, 3 inch drop offs where manholes are in the street, the debris left behind by emergency response personnel at the location of a car wreck, the wavy ripples you have to traverse when going through many of the city's intersections?

Pardon the rant, but i'm tired i'm just a little tired of having to get my vehicles realigned every other week not to mention the tires and bent rims i've endured over the years. The conditions of the city streets are exactly why i have to laugh anytime someone talks about the lofty expectations for the future of OKC.

"In order to be a leader in the future, you must first conquer the problems that have plagued you in the past"

/end of rant

rant/
For a city with so many plans and high hopes for the future, i can't for the life of me understand how one of the most basic needs for a major metro area continues to go unmet. The roads i'm forced to drive on daily in this city are nothing short of an embarrassment for the city. Am i really expecting too much when all i want are smooth driving surfaces? Is it that unrealistic to expect not to have to dodge pot holes the size of golf bunkers, 3 inch drop offs where manholes are in the street, the debris left behind by emergency response personnel at the location of a car wreck, the wavy ripples you have to traverse when going through many of the city's intersections?

Pardon the rant, but i'm tired i'm just a little tired of having to get my vehicles realigned every other week not to mention the tires and bent rims i've endured over the years. The conditions of the city streets are exactly why i have to laugh anytime someone talks about the lofty expectations for the future of OKC.

"In order to be a leader in the future, you must first conquer the problems that have plagued you in the past"

/end of rant

Dude, its way more important that we have parks and aquatic centers for senior citizens than roads to get to them - haven't you been reading all the propaga....erm...information posted on here?

I'm pretty sure the bond issue passed in 12/07 will be addressing road issues. But, I'm really confused about all the road rants. I drive a mini, which doesn't exactly have a suspension to die for, and I've not noticed anything major here. I've lived up north for half my life, however, and the snow, ice and salt do major damage to roads up there. They were always a mess, and always under repair. So, perhaps my perspective is a little off.

I'm more interested in getting cars off roads, however, as fewer people driving would mean less maintenance.

rant/
For a city with so many plans and high hopes for the future, i can't for the life of me understand how one of the most basic needs for a major metro area continues to go unmet. The roads i'm forced to drive on daily in this city are nothing short of an embarrassment for the city. Am i really expecting too much when all i want are smooth driving surfaces? Is it that unrealistic to expect not to have to dodge pot holes the size of golf bunkers, 3 inch drop offs where manholes are in the street, the debris left behind by emergency response personnel at the location of a car wreck, the wavy ripples you have to traverse when going through many of the city's intersections?

Pardon the rant, but i'm tired i'm just a little tired of having to get my vehicles realigned every other week not to mention the tires and bent rims i've endured over the years. The conditions of the city streets are exactly why i have to laugh anytime someone talks about the lofty expectations for the future of OKC.

"In order to be a leader in the future, you must first conquer the problems that have plagued you in the past"

/end of rant

Perhaps you've noticed, but the city is currently doing about half a billion dollars worth of road repairs. This is from the bond issue we voted for in 2007. That's why you'll notice so many streets are under construction, because, they're, um, getting fixed. But don't let the facts dampen the angry spirit of your rant.

Dude, its way more important that we have parks and aquatic centers for senior citizens than roads to get to them - haven't you been reading all the propaga....erm...information posted on here?

Hey doofus, the roads are being fixed from the 2007 bond issue. Propaganda? You can do better than that.

?

Some of the worst streets on the Southside have been taken care of recently. Mostly neighborhood streets. But Shields, which was straight nasty, was recently repaved. It seems Walker is always getting repaved and as long as I can remember, it's always a smooth ride. Western too. Penn needs some loving, as well as May. 44th is nice. Same for 36th. Santa Fe was recently repaved also. 59th is fine. I just don't really understand this? Maybe you live in the boonies or on the north side which I'm not as acquainted with. Perfectly understandable.

I really don't see what room there is to complain. There is hardly a city in the US of OKC's size or larger where roads are perfect - kinda comes with the territory of being a big city. Not every city can have the money, such as the DFW metro, to pave all the major roads with 18-inch thick concrete that won't decay for 100 years. Our roads are perfectly reasonable compared with any large city. Be thankful OKC isn't in a cold climate where asphalt crumbles like a stale piece of bread.

?

Some of the worst streets on the Southside have been taken care of recently. Mostly neighborhood streets. But Shields, which was straight nasty, was recently repaved. It seems Walker is always getting repaved and as long as I can remember, it's always a smooth ride. Western too. Penn needs some loving, as well as May. 44th is nice. Same for 36th. Santa Fe was recently repaved also. 59th is fine. I just don't really understand this? Maybe you live in the boonies or on the north side which I'm not as acquainted with. Perfectly understandable.

Quit trying to confuse us with the facts! We want to be ANGRY!

:LolLolLol

short term memory.

I could drive directly to several residential streets less than 5 miles from "Downtown" that are gravel.

"Big League" City!!!! :LolLolLol

1. Are they in the city limits?

2. Do you know for a fact that paving them will not be covered by the 12/07 bond issue

3. Why do you live here if you think so little of this city?

4. Do you live here?

I could drive directly to several residential streets less than 5 miles from "Downtown" that are gravel.

"Big League" City!!!! :LolLolLol

Other cities you could do that in..

Denver, Dallas, Fort Worth, AUSTIN, Kansas City, to name a few..

Drive OKC roads on a Harley. Its like being on a obstacble course. If you really want a eye opener drive I-40 on a bike. I won't get on I-40 on my bike or car. You really get to see I-40 on a bike and its scarry. Metal plates , patches and some rebar showing. Its just a matter of time before something happens. I take the long way around town.

Drive OKC roads on a Harley. Its like being on a obstacble course. If you really want a eye opener drive I-40 on a bike. I won't get on I-40 on my bike or car. You really get to see I-40 on a bike and its scarry. Metal plates , patches and some rebar showing. Its just a matter of time before something happens. I take the long way around town.

I'm sure that's a large part of why its being replaced at ground level.

FWIW, I live in the north inner city and there has been road repair (direly needed) going on almost nonstop for many months. The money from the last bond election is taking care of these problems in force. I can't speak for all sides of town, but the construction around here is everywhere. Most of it was direly needed. We got all of our neighborhood streets resurfaced, as did most adjoining neighborhoods, and several major thoroughfares are being done as well (some, such as Classen, needed it direly).

In my opinion, the city's historical method of running things on low budget and disregarding actual needs is what caused this level of disrepair. We'll probably need to regularly have bond initiatives like this to keep things going well. But for now, I'm just ecstatic that it is happening.

So frankly, the correlation between roads and MAPS makes no sense. The biggest roads and bridges projects I've ever seen here are going on right now. I hope we're more proactive in keeping these taken care of in the future, and I think we will be. I would go so far as to say that the first MAPS and their successes, along with changing ideas of government among the general populace of OKC, are why so much is being done now. People trust things to be done by the government finally, and they haven't yet given us a reason not to.

Before all of that, we have a history of distrust for government, voting no on anything requiring the raising of funds for the government, they starve, and nothing gets done due to lack of funds. Then their lack of funds was used to say "Look, they can't even accomplish anything with what they have, so they don't deserve any more." Government and good public service requires money, and in many case taxation, to work. And of course, once the money's there, diligence and oversight is required to ensure that government doesn't go astray. I think we've done well with this ever since the first MAPS.

Wow! I'm really starting to sound like a broken record, but here we go again.

FACT: Basic infrastructure projects such as City (not State) roads are funded through General Obligation Bonds.

FACT: The City underwent a 21-year funding drought between 1974 and 1995 when not a single bond issue was passed, and there was NO FUNDING for infrastructure improvements. Think about if there were only a single source of funding for improvements to your own home. Now think about if the citizens of that home said "no, we don't want to pay for that," for twenty-one years. With no funding for improvements in place, your home will fall into a state of disrepair pretty darn quickly.

FACT: In 1995, the City passed a General Obligation bond initiative that provided funding to start making upgrades and improvements to roads, and build roads to then-developing parts of the City. This started to take care of some of the issues that arose during the twenty-one years when no funding was availalbe (and no infrastructure improvements made), however, after twenty-one years with no funding, there was a LOT of catch-up to be made.

FACT: In 2000, another Bond Issue was passed. Because of the nature of Bond Issues, several of the 2000 project are still under way. (They are not "pay as you go" projects, so some projects take several years to come to fruition. It is the nature of the funding mechanism.

FACT: In 2007, voters passed yet ANOTHER Bond issue including $497 million dedicated to road improvements.

FACT: Repaving and/or reconstruction of I-40 is a Federal/State-funded project. It is not funded by the City.

With a City that is over 600 square miles you can hardly expect roads to be improved overnight. The Bond Issue money is not "up front" money. Only so many projects can be handled at one time, and there are only so many crews that can be out repairing roads at any given time.

In the area where I live, all three MAJOR North/South arteries that comprise the area communting points are being widened. Two of the East/West arteries have also been widened.

There is construction going on all over this place. It's not hard to find. Just open your eyes.

Before anyone complains about why we don't seek another funding alternative for infrastructure improvements, it's because our State Law dictates how local municipalities can fund certain types of improvements.

Another feather in the cap for MAPS. A great "pay as you go" funding mechanism, no interest paid, and you get the projects without too much lag time. Plus, funding doesn't dip into for basic infrastructure improvements.

Are many of our roads in bad shape? Absolutely. Is there something being done about it? Absolutely.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Don't expect our roads to magically all be perfect and improved in a day, either.

Thank you. Rant Over.

DISCLAIMER: Not a single emoticon was used for the dissemination of the information or related facts herewith.

...DISCLAIMER: Not a single emoticon was used for the dissemination of the information or related facts herewith.

:tiphat:

(da debble mud me do dat)

I have lived in chicago,KC, Dallas and here in OKC and these are by far the worst roads I've ever been on. I remember the first time I had to dodge a pot hole on the highway goin 70mph. I was pretty upset! Its sad to say but I've gotten used to it.:numchucks

I say again, you aren't going to find roads any better in any other major city. Bikers will still find gravel in the road, trash, etc. You will still find potholes. You will still have bumpy, dipped asphalt from heavy trucks driving on the roads in hot weather. There is nothing out of the ordinary about roads in OKC.

If you really want some roads to be angry about, come to Tulsa! :omg:

Okay then, when the hell is the worst city councilman ever, Lyin Pat Ryan, going to get 164th between Penn and Western fixed? He has been promising that one for over 2 years. WORST ROAD EVER!

I say again, you aren't going to find roads any better in any other major city. Bikers will still find gravel in the road, trash, etc. You will still find potholes. You will still have bumpy, dipped asphalt from heavy trucks driving on the roads in hot weather. There is nothing out of the ordinary about roads in OKC.

Clearly you have not spent much time driving around city streets in other states if you think the roads here are on par with other major cities. I'm not even expecting them to be NC good bc i've yet to see a place that is, But they could at least be SC good.

I have nothing against dirt/gravel roads. Not every road needs to be paved. I do however have a problem driving on asphault one minute and into a mini grand canyon the next. If you think that's normal, let me know where you're driving.

This thread makes me chuckle.

For some reason it reminds me of the Democratic primary when Hillary suddenly yelled out: "Enough with the big rallies and fancy speeches. Enough!" That was some of the best unintentional comedy of the 2008 election.

I have lived in chicago,KC, Dallas and here in OKC and these are by far the worst roads I've ever been on. I remember the first time I had to dodge a pot hole on the highway goin 70mph. I was pretty upset! Its sad to say but I've gotten used to it.:numchucks

See: 21-year funding shortage (which you can thank the Mark Shannon types for)

See: 21-year funding shortage (which you can thank the Mark Shannon types for)

I actually think this is the goal of the more extreme wing of the teabagger set. Just to sow discord and create tangible proof of failure. It gives them a foundation for arguing that the government can't do anything effectively.

Okay then, when the hell is the worst city councilman ever, Lyin Pat Ryan, going to get 164th between Penn and Western fixed? He has been promising that one for over 2 years. WORST ROAD EVER!

dp, have you not looked at the roads currently under construction in the SAME AREA?

May Avenue from 150th to 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Pennsylvania from 150th to 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION - including the bridge, which they just replaced
Western Avenue from 150th - 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION

178th between Western and Pennsylvania - CONSTRUCTION COMPLETED Fall 2009

164th IS and will be in line in the very near future, but don't you think, at least for the purposes of traffic flow, and I don't know, common sense, that they will wait until AT LEAST one of the North-South arteries is completed before working on 164th?

I agree it is one of the worst roads in the City, but once the others are completed, it will be done.

Clearly you have not spent much time driving around city streets in other states if you think the roads here are on par with other major cities. I'm not even expecting them to be NC good bc i've yet to see a place that is, But they could at least be SC good.

I have nothing against dirt/gravel roads. Not every road needs to be paved. I do however have a problem driving on asphault one minute and into a mini grand canyon the next. If you think that's normal, let me know where you're driving.

Clearly, you have no idea where I have or havent lived or driven. I lived in Dallas for 13 years from 86 to 2000 and in Denver for the next 8. The wealthy parts of Dallas and the wealthy suburbs have better roads because they passed a $1 billion bond issue a while back and made the road standard in the metroplex a 6-lane wide, concrete roadway. The energy and tech booms that Dallas benefitted from have also given the city money to build better roads. However, go to the poor parts of town and the side streets and roads don't benefit from this wealth of money and are no better than here.

Denver, on the other hand has worse roads than OKC by a long shot. Weather plays a large part and the fact they still cling to the use of asphalt the way we do. However, the weather in Denver is far harder on the roads than it is here so they decay faster. I just spent a week in KC about 4 months ago and had a chance to drive around there. They have a better highway system than we do but there roads are, overall, no better than here. Asphalt, potholes all over some roads, rocks on many of them which the bikers wouldn't like.

I was in Omaha a month ago and the roads were no different than here other than they were inadequately wide in most areas. Omaha apparently doesn't like 4 lane roads.

You want to talk about bad roads? Go to NYC or Boston.

Chicago I cant speak for.

The problem is that you all live here and you see every road in every part of town and simply feel the roads are worse. The city has passed a large bond issue in 2007 and something like $300 million in road improvements are included. There will be plenty of road work once that gets underway. The delay has been the financial crisis and trying to get the bonds underwritten so they can be sold.

The city has passed a large bond issue in 2007 and something like $300 million in road improvements are included. There will be plenty of road work once that gets underway. The delay has been the financial crisis and trying to get the bonds underwritten so they can be sold.

$497 million, actually

I agree with some on this forum. How about fixing some of the current problems of OKC, such as streets, sidewalks, and other infrastructure, with tax money. And, how about all these pro MAPS TV spots? Who pays for these, the city? (tax money) I believe this blank check made available by the passing of MAPS, may make a corrupt system even more corrupt.

ray99, you really should read a little here before posting such accusations.

1) We passed a massive bond issue in 2007 that includes money for sidewalks, bridges, etc.--including $497 million for roads. If you look around, you will seen many road improvement projects underway right now.

2) YesForMaps campaign materials were paid for by donations.

Also, sidewalks are part of the MAPS 3 proposals as well.

Washington DC has terrible roads.

Okay then, when the hell is the worst city councilman ever, Lyin Pat Ryan, going to get 164th between Penn and Western fixed? He has been promising that one for over 2 years. WORST ROAD EVER!

You're right! I drive that stretch a lot and it's killer. Anyone who thinks we have good roads in Edmond, get onto N.W. 164th between Penn and Western, and try to do the speed limit without busting something or spilling your Starbucks all over your lap.

I've seen moonscapes with smoother surfaces.

Washington DC has terrible roads.
Every city (or even small town) has bad roads and some good roads. Since the OKC city limits is so large there is more paving to take care of than other cities of similar populations, it also takes awhile to get to them. Austin is a fraction of the size in area and we have many bad roads and worse traffic problems because of the "if we don't build roads, people won't come mentality" that permeated the city council for a long time and seems to be creeping back in since the last election.

You're right! I drive that stretch a lot and it's killer. Anyone who thinks we have good roads in Edmond, get onto N.W. 164th between Penn and Western, and try to do the speed limit without busting something or spilling your Starbucks all over your lap.

I've seen moonscapes with smoother surfaces.

The new asphalt on that stretch was a temporary fix. That road should be completely reconstructed this spring, once some of the other million road projects in that area get complete. People who continue to complain about roads need to get a clue....I can't even drive anywhere without going through construction. So, it's not like we're not already addressing these issues.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Close roads/lanes for construction, and people will complain. Leave the roads as is, and people will complain.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Close roads/lanes for construction, and people will complain. Leave the roads as is, and people will complain.

Exactly.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Close roads/lanes for construction, and people will complain. Leave the roads as is, and people will complain.

:congrats:

The 2007 bond issue is a big start on upgrading roads, but it won't solve the problem. We'll need a couple more bond issues to bring all the streets up. That's probably a 20-year project.

I really don't see what room there is to complain. There is hardly a city in the US of OKC's size or larger where roads are perfect - kinda comes with the territory of being a big city. Not every city can have the money, such as the DFW metro, to pave all the major roads with 18-inch thick concrete that won't decay for 100 years. Our roads are perfectly reasonable compared with any large city. Be thankful OKC isn't in a cold climate where asphalt crumbles like a stale piece of bread.

Drive on Dallas and Houston arterials. Not the FM roads or Texas highways. I'm talking Post Oak Road here in Houston where even on a dry day you have to do 25 MPH just to kepp from doing major damage to the bottom of your car.

You also have to remember the soils in the OKC area are much more elastic (due to the clay) which can be hard on both concrete and asphalt roads as the ground acts like a sponge swelling greatly when wet and contracting greatly when dry. That is something that many other areas don't have to deal with, here in Austin it is almost all some form of limestone not too far below the surface, that really helps with the stability of the roads. I know that I kind of had to "retrain" my brain when it came to foundations after moving to Austin. Dallas is very similar to Austin but I have seen some of the roads built when I lived there (91-93) in bad shape as well, most of those were concrete and they have had to come back and grind them smooth in recent years...of course some of that could be due to poor construction even if it is made of concrete.

Also, I think many of the roads in the more rural parts of OKC have traditionally been maintained by Oklahoma County, I know the ones outside the city limits are but I vaguely recall seeing "county signs" on some road building projects.

You're right! I drive that stretch a lot and it's killer. Anyone who thinks we have good roads in Edmond, get onto N.W. 164th between Penn and Western, and try to do the speed limit without busting something or spilling your Starbucks all over your lap.

I've seen moonscapes with smoother surfaces.

That stretch of road is up for widening, if not already.

That stretch of road is up for widening, if not already.

Here's my standard answer - if you're ever looking for answers on street improvements, call Public Works at 297-2581. Ask for an update on a specific project. The person who answers will be able to direct you to someone who can answer the question.

jbrown 84, thanks for reply. I have read a little on this forum, and am aware of millions and millions of bond dollars as well as gasoline taxes earmarked for the maintenance of streets and highways, and other improvements. I have also driven in most states in the U.S. and in several countries in Europe, and have compared. I just don't believe the money is effectively put to good use. It is sad when I see road workers with a load of asphalt, getting a shovel full, throwing it in a pothole, then letting cars run over it to compress it, and calling this a "fix". And I'm assuming this is their "marching orders".

You can't compare what is done here with European countries. For starters, their gasoline taxes are far higher than ours are and always have been. Yes, they do maintain their highways better than we do but they don't have nearly the miles to maintain that we do in the US. As far as roads inside major cities, I believe the ones in OKC are comperable to those in European cities. Finally, European countries are generally the size of states in the US, so they don't have to rely on DC politics to dictate how much money is distributed every several years. They tax, they spend. None of the DC shenenigans to deal with like we have to put up with.

This is exactly the reason the MTP is a great idea. It will make for less cars on the road and they won't have to be fixed as frequently. Add to that a major hub and potential for light rail.

Ray, don't try to say that all they're doing with this money is patching potholes. That's absurd.

I was actually thinking the other day how good the city has been recently about resurfacing. I live near 23rd and May. May has just been redone in the area (with incredible speed I might add) and the 23rd St. repairs have been going very well (despite how much I fuss about it on my way to work).

We are a very large low density city, with a HUGE amount of roads for our population. I can definitely see my tax dollars at work in road resurfacing, and I've been very satisfied so far.

Thanks for talking sense, EBAH! :)

I was actually thinking the other day how good the city has been recently about resurfacing. I live near 23rd and May. May has just been redone in the area (with incredible speed I might add) and the 23rd St. repairs have been going very well (despite how much I fuss about it on my way to work).

We are a very large low density city, with a HUGE amount of roads for our population. I can definitely see my tax dollars at work in road resurfacing, and I've been very satisfied so far.

I live in the same area and drive neighborhood streets to get to I-44, but will be looking forward to when they are done, I hear as soon as February. I believe then they will begin work on the area from May to Villa.

Thanks to MAPS3, we'll have new sidewalks, walking/jogging trails and a new trolley system, you can sale your car and never have to drive on city streets again.

:welcome5::welcome5::welcome5:

Depending on where you live...

But we're getting there.

Depending on where you live...

But we're getting there.

So true, I was speaking with tongue-in-cheek, but it is exciting times in OKC

With the streetcar, it will be possible for someone to choose a carless life between that, new bike lanes downtown (Project 180) and general increased walkability in the inner city. They'd have to work and live in downtown or midtown.

Yeah, I would love to see a street car eventually extended down the 16th corridor to all of us in the "historic neighborhoods" west of classen. It would be a good route, that would probably have a strong ridership, and it would be GREAT for reinvigorating the underappriciated gems that they are (the neighborhoods that is). But, I know we all can't have exactly what we want. At least with the route posted in the MTP thread, I could ride my bike to the 23rd/classen area (which I do regularly) and hop on a car from there.

dp, have you not looked at the roads currently under construction in the SAME AREA?

May Avenue from 150th to 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Pennsylvania from 150th to 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION - including the bridge, which they just replaced
Western Avenue from 150th - 178th - UNDER CONSTRUCTION

178th between Western and Pennsylvania - CONSTRUCTION COMPLETED Fall 2009

164th IS and will be in line in the very near future, but don't you think, at least for the purposes of traffic flow, and I don't know, common sense, that they will wait until AT LEAST one of the North-South arteries is completed before working on 164th?

I agree it is one of the worst roads in the City, but once the others are completed, it will be done.

No, common sense would be not to have construction on 3 consecutive North/south roads AT THE SAME DAMN TIME...AND DURING CHRISTMAS traffic. If it would have been done when he promised the first 2-3 times, we would not have these problems. They are now making Penn 4 lanes - which means they are tearing up 2 lanes that were just paved a few years ago - instead of 164th. Great planning dumbass.

No, common sense would be not to have construction on 3 consecutive North/south roads AT THE SAME DAMN TIME...AND DURING CHRISTMAS traffic. If it would have been done when he promised the first 2-3 times, we would not have these problems. They are now making Penn 4 lanes - which means they are tearing up 2 lanes that were just paved a few years ago - instead of 164th. Great planning dumbass.

I don't drive in this area as I live further south so I'm curious. Are some areas shut down completely or are there fewer lanes than before? If not, why is it a huge problem?