yea they probably wouldn't like that would they steve.

Things going on in all parts of this city impacts us all - no matter where we live.
Some of us care about ALL of our city. Some of us are not so selfish that we must wait until something personally touches us to get involved.

You just don't get it and that's fine, and since you think this is just about us, here at 59th and N. May, I guess you have no reason to post in this thread anymore?

Im glad you posted this. One thing that you're forgetting is that those people, the ones you dont like; ARE ALSO PART OF OKC. Cities are a collection of people from many different backgrounds and walks of life that now all live in the same area. Its all part of the experience of living in any city in the world, not everyone is the same and that's what makes it exciting to live in a city over a suburban or exburban (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=exburb)areas. Once you realize that you can't dictate how other people live their lives you'll be a lot happier person.

If your 'ideal' oklahoma city is a quite neighborhood with 98% white people, quite evenings, and no rap music then there are numerous places where you can easily move to make that come true. Its a lot easier than forcing your mental picture of what you think oklahoma city should be on the people you currently live around.

Im glad you posted this. One thing that you're forgetting is that those people, the ones you dont like; ARE ALSO PART OF OKC. Cities are a collection of people from many different backgrounds and walks of life that now all live in the same area. Its all part of the experience of living in any city in the world, not everyone is the same and that's what makes it exciting to live in a city over a suburban or exburban (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=exburb)areas. Once you realize that you can't dictate how other people live their lives you'll be a lot happier person.

If your 'ideal' oklahoma city is a quite neighborhood with 98% white people, quite evenings, and no rap music then there are numerous places where you can easily move to make that come true. Its a lot easier than forcing your mental picture of what you think oklahoma city should be on the people you currently live around.

I knew you didn't get it, but I didn't realize until your last post just how much you didn't get it.

You think it takes thug pockets to make a city "exciting?" You say I should move? It sounds like your ideal place is Detroit, Cleveland, Newark.

You think not wanting this crap at 2 AM and trying to keep thugs and crime out of my neighborhood is "trying to dictate the way people live?" That's just absurd.

I think if you want to do this back and forth we should take it PM. You already said you didn't think this thread impacts you at all. You've also been so arrogant as to tell me (who lives 3 blocks away) that it's not impacting me and that the Ray's problem is really my problem for failing to appreciate the diversity!

PM me if you don't have anything to add to this thread. Most of us here realize this place IS a problem. To you, it's a sign of an "exciting" city and you clearly have nothing more to contribute here. This world is turned upside down.

-You think it takes thug pockets to make a city "exciting?"
-You say I should move? It sounds like your ideal place is Detroit, Cleveland, Newark.

-You think not wanting this crap at 2 AM and trying to keep thugs and crime out of my neighborhood is "trying to dictate the way people live?" That's just absurd.




- Cities are diverse, they have many people from many cultures and WHO are you to say that people acting like 'thugs' is illegal? Obviously the cops have been by there and as i thought, being a 'thug' obviously isn't illegal.

-My ideal place is now Edmond. I used to live in oklahoma city in an apartment and I got tired of having upstairs neighbors blasting their music, having people over for parties at all hours, people parking in my spot, drunk people around my car, car alarms going off, etc.....so I moved. Sound familiar?

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal. So now the trade off is that i have to drive back into the city if i want to meet friends at the bar, try to hang out with people who aren't 40-70 years of age, and my commute to work is much longer.

I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.

- Cities are diverse, they have many people from many cultures and WHO are you to say that people acting like 'thugs' is illegal? Obviously the cops have been by there and as i thought, being a 'thug' obviously isn't illegal.

-My ideal place is now Edmond. I used to live in oklahoma city in an apartment and I got tired of having upstairs neighbors blasting their music, having people over for parties at all hours, people parking in my spot, drunk people around my car, car alarms going off, etc.....so I moved. Sound familiar?

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal. So now the trade off is that i have to drive back into the city if i want to meet friends at the bar, try to hang out with people who aren't 40-70 years of age, and my commute to work is much longer.

I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.

It's called acting civilized. Some countries are civilized and some aren't. You are right, some of the uncivilized types are here in America. You REJOICE in this?

You're more full of it with every post. Don't ever try to improve a neighborhood? Drop over a quarter of a million dollars on a high-rise condo and then just let the neighborhood go to hell? Just drop things and move when things get rough? Maybe you're in your 20's and can do that. I'm 50 and have chosen where I want to live. When things get out of control at a local bar, I'm not going to just get up and move. (You must be really transient.) What is going on at Ray's is illegal. There are many laws broken in that parking lot every Friday night. The police have been there in the past (you said that was a "waste" of time) and now - for whatever reason they have chosen to not show up.

I noticed you didn't respond to my PM. This is where the discussion should go if you insist on making Ray's the good guy and ME the bad guy for wanting to clean it up. We can argue that all day long, but it shouldn't be in this thread.

You can take your leftist cultural crap and political correctness and shove it, Brad. This is my neighborhood and I CARE.

You can take your leftist cultural crap and political correctness and shove it, Brad. This is my neighborhood and I CARE.

HAHA, Leftist. Everything i've said has been in support of not wasting tax payer resources, unlike yourself. If anything the fact that you are dead set on living in a condo in the city while we are home owners in the suburbs should show you how leftist i am.

You're really grasping for anything at the moment.


I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending.

Bradzilla, its clearly you who isn't capable of comprehending. If people going to Rheas want to wear bling and act all gangsta nobody's stopping them from doing that. What should be stopped is late night noise, loitering in the parking lot and keeping anyone who doesn't have business in the surrounding residential areas from being there.

You admitted you are a renter who allowed noisy neighbors to run you off. As a renter you can pick up and go anytime you want but in doing so you perpetuated a situation where someone violated your right to peace and quiet - yet you picked up and ran. Owners don't always have that luxury and I defy you to find any law or rule that allows others to violate the peace and quiet of a residential neighborhood at 2-3 AM.

If I understand the situation, MikeOKC lives across May Ave from Rheas. There is a huge parking lot to hold the cars so I wonder what possible reason people there would have to be wandering across May Ave into the residential area unless they live there?

Stop burying your head in the sand and recognize that this isn't a racist issue. Its an issue of the clash of mainstream residential life in America and the gangsta lifestyle. Until you've lived in his shoes, stop being such a judgmental person. People who own their homes can't just pick up and move because some building owner 300 feet away decided to open a late-night club. LIke it or not, much of gangsta is virtual worship of thuggery. Thuggery is what it is. If you choose to pick up and run that's your choice. THink about what that is called.

all that i picked up was people playing music, being loud, and neighbors feeling intimidated?

That's all that is necessary right there when it violates the peace, quiet, safety and sanctity of your neighborhood. No one has a right to do this to a neighborhood.

This is really going nowhere with Bradzilla and his theories/POV. What I want to know is why the parent company or one owner who owns the building can't raise their lease rate? When the tenant lease is over they need to jack it up so the owner of Rhea's can't afford it and he has to go find a new location--preferablly somewhere not near residential areas. I'd think they'd be aware of the complaints and the constant Friday night circlings of The Ghetto Bird--please Bradzilla, tell me where else this flies in OKC because of illegal activities not involving car chases???

-You admitted you are a renter who allowed noisy neighbors to run you off.

-If I understand the situation, MikeOKC lives across May Ave from Rheas. There is a huge parking lot to hold the cars so I wonder what possible reason people there would have to be wandering across May Ave into the residential area unless they live there?

-Its an issue of the clash of mainstream residential life in America and the gangsta lifestyle. .

-Im not sure how much you know about law, but im what they call a reasonable person. Reasonably I knew my rights and I knew that I couldn't expect to live in a high density area and not be bothered by other people. Regardless of their race.

-As i mentioned earlier in the thread, if the patrons of that business haven't broken any laws besides loitering for 45 minutes after a club closes, then mike doesn't really have a leg to stand on on getting 'them' out of his neighborhood. You cant punish a group of people for crimes they haven't committed.

-How is it a clash, they are oklahoma city residents hanging out in oklahoma city? What does their race or lifestyle have to do with anything?

I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.

This is really going nowhere with Bradzilla and his theories/POV.


-My 'theories' are based on 8 years of college education and the law; I understand that might sound foreign to you.

All b.s. and conspiracy theories aside. Take a step back and look at the police response and the owners stance over this issue. LEGALLY the owner has nothing to worry about what you think of his clientele and what you feel they are doing to your neighborhood. If you dont believe me just take him to court....

Im not sure how much you know about law, but im what they call a reasonable person. Reasonably I knew my rights and I knew that I couldn't expect to live in a high density area and not be bothered by other people. Regardless of their race.

This isn't a high density area and, once again, the issue isn't race. It's the gangsta lifestyle and the lack of concern about people who live in the area.


-As i mentioned earlier in the thread, if the patrons of that business haven't broken any laws besides loitering for 45 minutes after a club closes, then mike doesn't really have a leg to stand on on getting 'them' out of his neighborhood. You cant punish a group of people for crimes they haven't committed.

Loitering in the parking lot of the club is all you need. If "loitering" would break up the after hours noise, that's all thats needed.


-How is it a clash, they are oklahoma city residents hanging out in oklahoma city? What does their race or lifestyle have to do with anything?

This one is so obvious it doesn't deserve an answer. You are clearly not even trying to walk in his shoes and from how you say you live, I am not sure you would understand.


I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.

Never said I was a lawyer but my BA and MBA suit me very well. Apparently your education taught you well about being smarmy and arrogant. I couldn't give a rat's *** about your education. Most of us understand life and our families and our safety perfectly well which has absolutely nothing to do with education and everything to do with observation. When you decide to grow up and buy a real house in a real neighborhood and have real concerns for your real family and your real life maybe you will understand.

I realized that I could not control all the 22-35 year old recent college graduates who still wanted to act like they were in college. Even though they disrupted my sleep, acted like idiots, and i felt like they could damage something due to their stupidity....but it wasn't illegal.
...
I'm giving you advice that you don't seem to be capable of comprehending. The cops said that they weren't going to do anything, the owner wont close the club, and the thugs don't care what you think and obviously according to the cops they aren't breaking the law. So unless you want to run for mayor and put a public ban on acting like a 'thug' inside of city limits your best option is to control what you do have control over and move.


I sometimes take for granted that some people don't have very high education levels or understanding of the law.


-My 'theories' are based on 8 years of college education and the law; I understand that might sound foreign to you.

I'm a lawyer with a pretty high level of education. Since you brought it up and put such stock in it, Brad, I am wondering what in the world about your 8 years of college education (are you a slow learner, or what?) and "understanding" of the law would cause you to believe that thugs and thugettes causing all kinds of commotion at 2 - 3 in the morning should be endured by homeowners? The best advice you give them is to abandon a neighborhood because of thuggery in the middle of the night - this is what you came up with all your education? If every homeowner did this, the city is would simply go to crap. That is ridiculous.

You said:


LEGALLY the owner has nothing to worry about what you think of his clientele and what you feel they are doing to your neighborhood. If you dont believe me just take him to court....

Are you a lawyer? Because if you are, I am surprised you are giving specific legal advice about the homeowner's options and pontificating about whether specific laws have been broken. Moreover, even if you are a lawyer, I would be surprised by the comments about thuggery not being illegal, the police haven't found anything, etc. There are lots of reasons things aren't prosecuted and there are plenty of times when thuggery is also illegal, depending on the facts. And you can't tell from what has been posted, here.

If you aren't a lawyer, why do you feel qualified to hand out legal advice on criminal law, municipal law and homeowners' remedies? Telling someone they have no recourse on (with no more information than you've gotten on a message board) is, I devoutly hope, coming from a layperson. I can't imagine a competent attorney being so reckless. There is a world of difference in discussing the law, which is done frequently on the board, vs. opining whether someone specifically has a case - particularly under these fuzzy facts. You may have 8 years of college education but, apparently, you are still waiting for good judgment to kick in.

And when I say that, I am not saying it was wrong or stupid or illdvised for you to move to Edmond. It was a personal choice and one you clearly thought about. That is one solution to the problem - but not the only one. My concern with what you posted was in diving into the legal options involved and making it sound quite cut and dried. You don't know the facts. You can't know. To give that sort of "it's so obvious even an idiot should figure this out" advice is reckless and it is no wonder you ran into such a firestorm.

Hey Brad, next Friday night(that would be 3/20/2010), how 'bout you and me go to Rhea's around 11PM?

I'll blast some Rammstein out of a Hummer and you can get out and explain how we're just there to have a normal night out in OKC.

I promise not to leave you there.

i'll pay your cover...

Looks like a few people had pretty slow Saturday nights.


-It's the gangsta lifestyle and the lack of concern about people who live in the area.

-Loitering in the parking lot of the club is all you need. If "loitering" would break up the after hours noise, that's all thats needed.

-When you decide to grow up and buy a real house in a real neighborhood and have real concerns for your real family and your real life maybe you will understand.

-Once again, Gangsta lifestyle isn't illegal and black people visiting a business in a white neighborhood isnt illegal either. No matter how much you wish it were true.

-Kinda borderline there, its obviously a good sized club with a lot of patrons. When was the last time that you saw any club parking lot as a ghost town 15 minutes after it closes, cops or no cops?

-Mentioned it earlier I am a home owner, in a neighborhood, and do have a family. They haven't received your stamp as being 'real', but im not going to hold my breath since you are also under the mindset that the 'thugs' dont have the same civil rights that you do since you dont approve of their lifestyle.




-If you aren't a lawyer, why do you feel qualified to hand out legal advice on criminal law, municipal law and homeowners' remedies?



-On the Federal side of the house I get to hear insane things about what people think their rights are all the time. As I mentioned earlier, if he feels that he's been wronged by the club owner for opening a black club a few blocks from his condo then take him to court. I know courts are real big on making sure that cities stay segregated and that blacks dont dare visit businesses in white neighborhoods. The complaint is coming from a guy who said this, so Im positive it will go well -


Not to mention the "There goes the neighborhood" aspect to it all.



-it is no wonder you ran into such a firestorm.

-Its comparable to children bickering because one child rode a bike in front of the other child's house.

Mike, visit your local homeowners' associations. Have them all go in on a lawyer and sue the landlord and club owners for nuisance.

Some fun cases to read:

1) This one actually has a rather hilarious (and short) fact pattern. It's from 1955 and you'll know it real quick. It's not really on point because it's a criminal case and as you've said, you've had no luck getting the OCPD to actually enforce the law.

Gibson v. State:


1 The defendants, Ketter Gordon and Jack Pittman, were jointly charged in the County Court of Seminole County with operating and maintaining a public nuisance, were tried, found guilty and sentenced to serve 90 days in jail and pay a fine of $250 and have appealed.

¶2 The only issue presented by the appeal is whether the evidence was sufficient to sustain the conviction.

¶3 The proof of the State showed that the defendants operated a barbecue stand and dance hall in the negro community known as Nobletown near Wewoka. Several officers testified to having visited the place of business of defendants at various times and having observed mixed crowds of colored and white people there drinking and carousing. Many arrests had been made at or near defendants' place of business for drunkenness, fighting, assault with a dangerous weapon and attempted rape. Many other witnesses testified to having gone to the premises of the accused and there having purchased intoxicating liquor from one or the other of the defendants. Some of them testified to buying whiskey in Seven Up bottles for $1.00 a bottle and others bought "Choctaw" beer. Fights in which knives were used were not uncommon and on one occasion, according to a witness, the defendant Gordon hit a teenage boy so hard with a pistol that it almost severed his ear. Many white teenagers from Wewoka would attend the dances where the music was provided generally by a jukebox.

¶4 The proof of the sale and open drinking of intoxicating liquor and a general course of disorderly conduct was wholly sufficient for the jury to determine that the two defendants were operating and maintaining a public nuisance in accordance with the definition of our statute, 50 O.S. 1951 § 2 [50-2]. King v. State, 71 Okl.Cr. 158, 109 P.2d 836; Hilbert v. State, 44 Okl.Cr. 89, 279 P. 910. Judgment and sentence of the County Court of Seminole County is affirmed.

2) MACKEY v. STATE EX REL. HARRIS was a case where the defendant was operating a place called the Red Dog Saloone back in the late 60s/early 70s in OKC. The complaints were much the same as what Mike is complaining about. Through the courts, eventually, the plaintiffs acquired an order permanently closing the business, requiring the sheriff to padlock the door. The Supreme Court of Oklahoma, finding that the trial court found that there was indeed a public nuisance, affirmed.

OSCN Found Document:MACKEY v. STATE EX REL. HARRIS (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=42287)

In short, if the renters don't meet your demands and the noise issue really is bad, then you do have more than adequate remedies through the courts.

Some fun cases to read:

1) This one actually has a rather hilarious (and short) fact pattern. It's from 1955 and you'll know it real quick.


Good idea, Midtowner is obviously a good source for all of your legal advice now I see why you two get along so well.

On a serious note another idea is to search around the houston area for similar cases, after katrina they had a mass influx of people from NOLA and had much of the same problems that your describing.

Oklahoma law is Oklahoma law, Texas law is Texas law. Yeah, I did disclaim the fact that the first case wasn't even really on point. I just thought the fact pattern was fun. Good lord.. gotta watch out for those "mixed crowds of colored and white people there drinking and carousing." I always enjoy reading cases where it's so obvious that what the Judges, and I'm guessing everyone else, back then knew and valued was so different than today. I checked the location of Nobletown on Google Maps. It's not even really a 'town.' Just more of a crossroads NW of Wewoka.

The Red Dog Saloone case gives a more full description about what the landowners' remedies would be. If Mike isn't exaggerating, I don't think he's going to have a hard time proving a public nuisance in court and getting something done. Now -- I'm not saying that a court is just going to go out and close Rheas. But they might issue an injunction to the landowner/club owner to tell them not to allow this situation in their parking lot to keep happening. After that we can start to talk about padlocking the place.

Folks certainly have the right to live their life and lifestyle [if you can call it that] however they want. They don't have the right to substantially interfere with other folks' enjoyment of their property though.

It's that whole concept of your right to swing your fist ends at my nose theory.

Folks certainly have the right to live their life and lifestyle however they want.



Why so judgemental of another culture?

Have you really taken a step back and looked at popular white culture and whats happening all over america right now?

-would rather hire someone to clean their own house, raise their children, yard work, and take care of their parents then do it themselves. then talk about it like its some sort of great status symbol that they have someone do that for them.
-Buying cars they cant afford (then losing)
-buying huge house they cant afford (then losing)
-plastic surgery obsessed
-maxed out credit limits to try and sustain some of what they consider lifestyle
-Celebrity obsessed
-highest rate of depression and suicide of any race
-majority of people are on some sort of medicine for anxiety or depression
-so obsessed with appearing weathly that they bankrupt their entire future

is that what culture is and how is it different than this ?



-These black guys have their own culture to where dressing up to the nines
-the bling
-acting like a mafia boss
-I have seen them chauffeured up to the door and walk to the club doors with an[I] entourage, I kid you not.
-but pull up in a Lexus with tinted windows

-it's truly a cultural problem that can't be shrugged off lightly.


Clothes and brand obsessed, buying stuff they cant afford, acting like the money ( which is actually debt) means that they have higher status, car they cant afford.

Doesnt sound that much different to me.

Why so judgemental of another culture?

Have you really taken a step back and looked at popular white culture and whats happening all over america right now?

-would rather hire someone to clean their own house, raise their children, yard work, and take care of their parents then do it themselves. then talk about it like its some sort of great status symbol that they have someone do that for them.
-Buying cars they cant afford (then losing)
-buying huge house they cant afford (then losing)
-plastic surgery obsessed
-maxed out credit limits to try and sustain some of what they consider lifestyle
-Celebrity obsessed
-highest rate of depression and suicide of any race
-majority of people are on some sort of medicine for anxiety or depression
-so obsessed with appearing weathly that they bankrupt their entire future

is that what culture is ?

That is a strawman. It has NOTHING to do with gangsta culture. It is just saying that other "cultures" have problems. Granted. But gangsta culture is in a class by itself for the distruction of a entire group - and it is spreading beyond the black community to everyone else.

I defy you to find one constructive aspect of Gangsta culture. One. Name one consistently positive attribute of gangsta culture that constributes to the stability of the family, the community and the country. One. Name ONE positive characteristic that would justify the rest of our society supporting the lifestyle and value system.

It glorifies crime, demeans women, denigrates education, advances drug abuse, undermines the care children should be entitled to, encourages violence, and does nothing to promote the dignity that comes with working and supporting your family and other responsibilties. Moreover, nothing in the gangsta lifestyle encourages respect by individuals of either their neighbors or their neighborhoods. And finally, listen to gangsta rap lyrics - it is the most bigoted crap - and I mean towards other minorities, not just "the man." Some "cultures" deserve to fail and this is one of them.

Maybe you think this is about racism. I don't. When I hear/read/become aware of another stupid-ass shooting, stabbing, drive-by, petty crime, etc., etc. you know what I am thinking? I'm thinking about the older black grandparents trapped in that environment where their neighborhoods have been devalued by the gangstas to the point where they can't sell out and escape to a decent neighborhood. I think of innocent black kids forced to go to violent schools, through violent neighborhoods because gangsta thugs who don't concept of responsiblities toward their communites don't give a crap about the kids or their future. I think about a young black girl whose future is thrown away because no sooner does she hit puberty that the young men in the neighborhood decide she would make a good broodmare - and she doesn't have a daddy or a granddad - or a strong male neighbor - willing to step up and keep those bad boys in line - resulting in another generation thrown away. Gangsta lifestyle is not harmless and the worst victims are the innocents who can't escape to Edmond. It is a blight on the black community and as far as I am concerned, we should have zero tolerance. And it isn't about being black - that type of behavior is distructive, no matter your race. It is killing African Americans and until you've gone into the hood (I have) you have no idea how that "culture" is destroying families and their futures.

Calling it a legitimate culture to advance some sort of highbrow notion of "tolerance" is morally bankrupt when you open your eyes and see the victims, be they the neighbors impacted by their ridiculous, disrespectful behavior, or the innocents left back in the hood waiting to be chewed up and spit out by the thugs in question. It is bad enough what goes on in their neighborhoods - there is little you can do from the outside when that sort of thing has taken over and corrupted the core. But to suggest that people should abandon their nighborhoods to allow these thugs to bring that BS to others in the interest of "entertainment," suggests a complete lack of understanding of what makes a community thrive. NOTHING good comes from allowing that sort of behavior to spread - it is a cancer.

Why so judgemental of another culture?

Have you really taken a step back and looked at popular white culture and whats happening all over america right now?

-would rather hire someone to clean their own house, raise their children, yard work, and take care of their parents then do it themselves. then talk about it like its some sort of great status symbol that they have someone do that for them.
-Buying cars they cant afford (then losing)
-buying huge house they cant afford (then losing)
-plastic surgery obsessed
-maxed out credit limits to try and sustain some of what they consider lifestyle
-Celebrity obsessed
-highest rate of depression and suicide of any race
-majority of people are on some sort of medicine for anxiety or depression
-so obsessed with appearing weathly that they bankrupt their entire future

is that what culture is and how is it different than this ?


Who cares? This thread is about a public nuisance, not American culture. It's as if you want to pass off the stereotype that black folks are loud and obnoxious as fact and then excuse it. If your premise is that black folks are loud and obnoxious, that in itself is inexcusably ignorant. If you want to continue and use this cultural excuse to justify the extreme interference with landowners who simply want to enjoy their property, then I don't think you're going to find many takers.

I don't think anyone here really gives two craps about anyone else's culture so long as their living within that culture doesn't interfere with my life, liberty, property, etc.

I think we've had similar threads on this forum regarding potential public nuisances created by loud church bells, minarets blasting the daily prayer, etc. If you think a particular culture is being singled out, I'm going to posit that you're dead wrong.

Folks just want to enjoy relative peace and tranquility at 2 o'clock in the morning.

And Mid is right - while I went off on gangsta culture, that was in response to your attempts to legitmize it. It is really about being a nuisance in the middle of the night for any reason. No one should have to put up with that, regardless of the motivation of the ones causing the problem. And I think it is also dead on to note that you seem to have pigeonholed this sort of behavior as a "black" problem or somehow defining black people. Not all black people are like that and not all people behaving like that are black.

-class by itself for the distruction of a entire group - and it is spreading beyond the black community to everyone else.

NOTHING good comes from allowing that sort of behavior to spread - it is a cancer.


Have you seen what has gone on in the US in the last two years due to white american culture?

How is that not disruptive, and how has this black culture effected your life in anyway?

I can say with out hesitation that the 'thug culture' hasnt had any effect on my home price, my 401k, my TSP account, skyrocketing layoffs, or families losing their homes.

It's as if you want to pass off the stereotype that black folks are loud and obnoxious as fact and then excuse it. If your premise is that black folks are loud and obnoxious, that in itself is inexcusably ignorant.


Please qoute anywhere where i said that.....

You're really searching and its sad.

Have you seen what has gone on in the US in the last two years due to white american culture?

How is that not disruptive, and how has this black culture effected your life in anyway?


I can say with out hesitation that the 'thug culture' hasnt had any effect on my home price, my 401k, my TSP account, or the skyrocketing layoffs.

Yeah, the gangsta culture pretty much paid my bills for the past few years, so I guess you can say it affected my life. I spent more time in the hood with its crappy neighbors, shootings, trash in the streets, no window panes despite the snow and ice (sheets are frequently tacked up to keep out the northwind), carpet destroyed by the pitbulls left locked in the house, no dads, dads in prison, drug abuse, kids spitting out babies by age 14, drop outs, grandparents trapped in their homes, no one working, etc. I'd have to schedule home visits in the afternoon because no one was up before that - including up to get the kids off to school.

Keep talking, Brad. As long as it doesn't affect you, you are perfectly happy to look the other way, even if it means you have to move to Edmond. Sadly, these grandparents and kids don't have that option. Gangsta culture is horrible. And yes, I have seen what has happened in white culture - I suspect far more than you have since I work in the business.

The gangsta values glorify violence and self centeredness. Yes, it is spreading. If I had to put my finger on the difference between trailer trash mentality and gangsta mentality is that trailer trash tend to be stupid, uneducated people who have washed out of competitive society. They have low standards and don't "reject" mainstream culture so much as they individually can't compete, either from laziness, ignorance, stupidity or foolish lifestyle choices. But you also see a lot of disabled or elderly in the trailerpark simply because they can't afford to live anywhere else. It is less a moral failing than just circumstances out of their control. In the bible, they say the poor will be among us, always. These tend to be the poor that every society has.

In contrast, gangsta culture actively glorifies violence, crime, self indulgence, and doesn't even make a passing attempt to uphold protecting children or putting them first. It is not the result of stupidity or disability. It is a set of fundamental values that destroys whatever it touches.

Oh, and to equate this with black vs. white culture, as you have done in your post, is racist and insulting. Most black people don't embrace this culture.

Why is everyone taking Brad's bait? He's just a troll.

Please qoute anywhere where i said that.....

You're really searching and its sad.

Context is key.

It's amazing that Brad fails to see the obvious. Or, as mentioned above, he's just a troll. I'm not even going to bother correcting his cut 'n paste job on me, taking out a few words and leaving out the context. Stringing things together to make it look different than it is.

It was a bit back upthread, but Brad bragged on his education. I have learned that anytime someone defaults to their education (as proof their opinion somehow carries more weight), on internet forums it almost always means one thing: They don't have what they claim.

It's interesting how Brad went from a guy angry that the police were even bothering with Ray's to (within 24 hours) being a suburban homeowner who had to flee similar things and felt I should do the same. I don't buy it for a minute. I suggested we take these back & forth things to PM. I tried and he ignored me.

It all probably means TROLL.

I appreciate all the ideas on dealing with this situation from many of you who have offered constructive thoughts. It is very much appreciated.

Me :poke: Brad

-It's amazing that Brad fails to see the obvious. Or, as mentioned above, he's just a troll.

-It's interesting how Brad went from a guy angry that the police were even bothering with Ray's to (within 24 hours) being a suburban homeowner who had to flee similar things and felt I should do the same. I don't buy it for a minute. I suggested we take these back & forth things to PM. I tried and he ignored me.


I enjoy quoting myself since your reading and comprehension skills are lagging behind.


Personal attacks on me is all fine and good but you arent actually addressing the problem, what exactly has any of the people at the club done to you or your property?



Its a waste of time to respond and its isnt going to go anywhere, this thread is about your neighborhood and the club. Not me.

there goes the neighborhood. All you folks have just verified in many different ways that this "ghetto" group is a cancer on society, and probably always will be. They probabably don't have a job, and who would hire them? There are portions of humanity that just aren't capable of being civilized. To some, being a so called thug, is the only life they will ever know. My guess is that they were all living in granny's house, because the parents moved to E. St. Louis.

the odd thing all, all the rather interesting back and forth notwithstanding, is that the real issue is not thug activity, it's the noise and the activity, without regard to who is doing it.

If folks are fighting, messing with private property, exceeding reasonable noise levels at 2-3 am, it really doesn't make a tinker's damn whether the source is Rhea's, or the patrons are black.

The same intrusion could exist if the place was called 'NECKS, the blaring music was George or Toby, the skin tone was pasty white, and the bling were spurs on pointy toed chitkickers.

For that matter, call it PREPS, w/ everyone in blue blazer and khakis and whatever passes for preppie shoes, and the music is blaring top 40 claptrap and the bling is all in Greek letters.

The real issue is what's happening - excessive noise, loud fighting, private property being messed with in the surrounding neighborhood.

Focus on the what, and 90% of the posts are meaningless, because those are focusing on the who. Someone urinates on my porch or messes with my car, I could not care less what he wears, listens to, drives or drinks elsewhere. I don't want his drunken arse messing with my peeps, my stuff or momma's flowers.

Simple really.

is that the real issue is not thug activity, it's the noise and the activity, without regard to who is doing it.

Focus on the what, and 90% of the posts are meaningless, because those are focusing on the who.

Amen.



-how is it a clash, they are oklahoma city residents hanging out in oklahoma city? What does their race or lifestyle have to do with anything?

Lifestyle, if that means a mob of folks are engaging in this sort of antisocial behavior on a consistent basis, has quite a lot to do with the situation. It suggests that this is not atypical behavior for this particular group and that their behavior is not going to change absent some sort of external intervention.

Originally Posted by kevinpate
is that the real issue is not thug activity, it's the noise and the activity, without regard to who is doing it.



Originally Posted by bradzilla in response to kevinpate:

Amen.


Brad continues his reinvention. What happened to the Bradzilla who said it was our choice to live in the city and it was this kind of thing that made urban life "exciting"? The Bradzilla who said the cops should lay off of Rhea's and said they were wasting taxpayer money?

Once again, Gangsta lifestyle isn't illegal and black people visiting a business in a white neighborhood isnt illegal either. No matter how much you wish it were true.

No its not, I never said it was and I never mentioned one single word about anyone being black, white, purple or yellow. You're the one who introduced race so lets not be hypocritical. Gee, I even know there are white people who embrace that lifestyle - yes, that's what I said before, LIFESTYLE that glorifies prison life, its a lifestyle that glorifies gangs, its a lifestyle that glorifies the submission and mistreatment of women, its a lifestyle that glorifies crime and murder. The club is on the west side of May Avenue - not IN a white neighborhood.


-Kinda borderline there, its obviously a good sized club with a lot of patrons. When was the last time that you saw any club parking lot as a ghost town 15 minutes after it closes, cops or no cops?

Happens all the time when the club has been deemed a nuisance and the police are there to move it on or if the club owner had sufficient security on hand to move it on. The police in Denver routinely move crowds on from the club in Denver where Darrant Williams was prior to being shot because it has a history of violence. My former policeman neighbor told me of a nightclub in a very nice part of Denver that draws a non-gang-related crowd but that several violent incidents took place in the parking lot after closing so the police routinely cleared the lot after closing time.


-Mentioned it earlier I am a home owner, in a neighborhood, and do have a family. They haven't received your stamp as being 'real', but im not going to hold my breath since you are also under the mindset that the 'thugs' dont have the same civil rights that you do since you dont approve of their lifestyle.

My apologies, I misunderstood one post you made where you said you lived in an apartment in OKC and moved to Edmond - I assumed to an apartment. The point is still the same, however. You moved to Edmond to run from aspects of what this thread is about. You were able to move and you chose to run from it rather than fight it by complaining to the managment, filing noise complaints, etc. Perhaps you ran from it because you were simply renting and it wasn't worth it. If you OWN your home, its worth it and no one has a right to violate your peace and quiet or violate your property in the middle of the night.

If Rheas moved 300 feet from the house you are in now and you were chronically being awoken at 2-3AM by loud, thumping bass speakers, looked out your window and saw people walking near your front door at that time of night, heard people cursing at each other, etc., you wouldn't be singing the same tune AT ALL. You might try to tell us on here you would, but you know you wouldn't.

Amplify what I said above by 10X if you have a wife and children in your house.

Whether you feel these people have civil rights to be a nuisance, even a non-lawyer can figure this one out. You are incorrect. In a previous post I stated that all that is necessary is to enforce loitering laws and now I'll throw in noise laws and the problem is mostly solved.


-Its comparable to children bickering because one child rode a bike in front of the other child's house.

This is your most inane comment yet. People from the club walking in your front yard at 2AM up near your front door isn't even close to being comperable.

So any news on this situation?

^^^
check this thread out (http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/15152-paralogia-ultra-lounge-2.html).

apparently, rhea's is closed and another club is taking its place. -M