Yesterday I was driving along I-40 west of MacArthur and noticed two large "Vote Yes" banners...today I was returning from Thanksgiving and noticed someone had vandalized the banners by ripping them down. It is very disapointing to see the people who don't agree with Maps vandalizing.

Yesterday I was driving along I-40 west of MacArthur and noticed two large "Vote Yes" banners...today I was returning from Thanksgiving and noticed someone had vandalized the banners by ripping them down. It is very disapointing to see the people who don't agree with Maps vandalizing.

It's disappointing no matter what the sign says.

A employee has a bumper sticker that says "not this maps", and is not employed.
It is very disappointing to see employers who dont agree with Maps opposition not allowing free speech.

A employee has a bumper sticker that says "not this maps", and is not employed.
It is very disappointing to see employers who dont agree with Maps opposition not allowing free speech.

Are you saying the person was fired after the addition of a Not this Maps bumper sticker?

Are you saying the person was fired after the addition of a Not this Maps bumper sticker?

He had his annual review, last week, then this past Monday, he put up his sign at home, and on his bumper sticker on his car.
And now he's gone.
Circumstantial some will say, even coincidental, but I know his employer, he does not like anyone to disagree with him on anything.

He had his annual review, last week, then this past Monday, he put up his sign at home, and on his bumper sticker on his car.
And now he's gone.
Circumstantial some will say, even coincidental, but I know his employer, he does not like anyone to disagree with him on anything.

Then I would suggest filing a lawsuit against the employer. A Maps vote is not worth firing someone over.

I'm generally an optimist when it comes to people, so I'm on the cynical side that says "coincidence"... but, if true, it's wrong.

Thanks,
But he is talking to someone qualified to do that.
What I find hilarious is he (employee) was sent a copy of his review.
And I hope that dumb*ss ( the employer) gave reason speaking of it to someone else.

Oklahoma's an at will state. And unless the guy is a public employee, his employer can fire him for just about anything (or nothing) absent some contractual agreement stating otherwise.

Oklahoma's an at will state. And unless the guy is a public employee, his employer can fire him for just about anything (or nothing) absent some contractual agreement stating otherwise.

Also, and it is not clear if it is even applicable to the unemployed person in this thread, but there are also many public employees who are 'at will' employees. The public v. private sector nature of the employer doesn't always create a difference. before deciding to leave some time back, I spent a good while with an agency where 100% of the staff were unclassified service and thus were 'at will' employees.

I personally think he should engage in corporate destruction.lol
Since killing this employer is bound to bring notoriety.

Also, and it is not clear if it is even applicable to the unemployed person in this thread, but there are also many public employees who are 'at will' employees. The public v. private sector nature of the employer doesn't always create a difference. before deciding to leave some time back, I spent a good while with an agency where 100% of the staff were unclassified service and thus were 'at will' employees.

Yes since we last talk he told me he doesnt think he can file a lawsuit.
But since he rocks at his profession I think he will do ok.
But I'm going to see why mischief I can cause.
He (the employer), claims to be a veteran, he isnt and he's been getting government contracts on that basis.

I personally think he should engage in corporate destruction.lol
Since killing this employer is bound to bring notoriety.

Sometimes, it's just better to cut your losses.

Someone ripped the sign down in my yard... jerks

That really is rude. Do you think it was kids?

Someone ripped the sign down in my yard... jerks

I have spare signs for my yard.

Go down to the Chamber, they have an entire hallway full.

... He (the employer), claims to be a veteran, he isnt and he's been getting government contracts on that basis.

If he has in fact done something wrong, it's not generally difficult to make appropriate folks aware of any relevant information to which you have access.

Do as your mind leads you. I'm reminded of a note I shared with Kerry. if something troubles you, present the facts to an appropriate source, and they can handle the rest.

The MAPS Yes people are getting smoked in my neighborhood. My wife and I have a sign and there are two other houses with Pro-MAPS signs, but there are at least a dozen anti-MAPS signs in our 'hood.

I hope I'm wrong, but the people running the campaign are getting seriously outworked.

Apparently the polling is still good for MAPS passing, though, and they're starting to run their poorly executed TV spots now.

I put out signs for the Ford Center MAPS, and remember thinking it was really late when we started distributing them.....like 2 weeks beforehand. I think I volunteered to deliver signs again this time and haven't heard anything, but again, perhaps they'll do it later. It is true that if you put them out too early, people stop paying attention to them and they fall apart.

I've seen several businesses by where I live have their signs disapear.

Well, then start training cameras on those signs to see if it's more than just kids doing it. And put it up on You Tube.

I find it odd that I am resident of MWC and I got a Pro Maps Campaign brocure. At last check, I cannot vote for MAPS unless MWC has decided to sign on for part of the tax dollars. If can vote, I am voting No.

I just do not think it is time for the city to go on another spending spree. They need to show the citizens they can go without the extra sales tax for a little while. If it passes, they should allow 12 months to pass by before the next one starts. Give the citzens a few extra dollars in their pocket. Prove to the people that MAPS is not the city's crack.

We all know if this one passes as soon it expires they will be lined up with another one.

Signs in right-of-ways are illegal and are routinely removed by city employees. It isn't ALWAYS vandalism.

The sign was not in the right-of-way. It was screwed to a giant wall.

It's disappointing no matter what the sign says.
Agreed!!!

Are you saying the person was fired after the addition of a Not this Maps bumper sticker?
YES! Why do you think Chesapeake has polled some of their own employee's? Why? Why would they care? They want to know who to let go...is their any other reason? If you don't think, this group involved in this election isn't vindictive, think again. Even the Mayor and City Manager plan on making it hard on anyone in opposition to MAPS. They've said so. Like small children throwing a temper tantrum when the don't get their way. I think it's ok for someone to have a different stance than mine. I'm proud that they even care. There are plenty more out there that wouldn't even know there was an election on December 8th if not for the publicized controversy it's caused. That's what MAPS3 supporters were hoping for, but that's not going to happen now.

Oklahoma's an at will state. And unless the guy is a public employee, his employer can fire him for just about anything (or nothing) absent some contractual agreement stating otherwise.
Yup!!! Thank you Keating. When are all the jobs going to pour in because we are at will? That's what was promised! Then the guy wouldn't have any problem finding a job.

I just do not think it is time for the city to go on another spending spree. They need to show the citizens they can go without the extra sales tax for a little while. If it passes, they should allow 12 months to pass by before the next one starts. Give the citzens a few extra dollars in their pocket. Prove to the people that MAPS is not the city's crack.

We all know if this one passes as soon it expires they will be lined up with another one.
Now that's real talk. Spread the word. You may be in OKC limits with a lot of your services from another city. So you may be able to vote. I guess the County Election Board may be able to tell you that if you give them your address. Good luck!

Good lord, compared to other places, Oklahoma is in incredible shape for jobs. The union shops, which change the flavor of at will employment even in at will states, have managed to pretty much drive off all their industries overseas. It was great while it lasted, though.

The union shops, which change the flavor of at will employment even in at will states, have managed to pretty much drive off all their industries overseas. It was great while it lasted, though.
I thought because it was cost effective cheap labor etc... I had now idea it was the nasty unions that did it. So, what's your excuse for the AT WILL states?

Change the flavor? In what way?

I thought because it was cost effective cheap labor etc... I had now idea it was the nasty unions that did it. So, what's your excuse for the AT WILL states?

Change the flavor? In what way?

Hahahha. That strikes me as funny. They changed the flavor by making overseas labor cost effective and cheap in comparison! The same thing happens on a smaller scale in the states. At will vs. labor states - much cheaper to pay at will employees.

while I am against this MAPS campaign (Due to the fact that I am sick of beautifying downtown when the city does nothing for the part I live in) I think it is pretty cheap and petty to tear down another persons signs. I am pretty sure its illigal too!!

Hahahha. That strikes me as funny. They changed the flavor by making overseas labor cost effective and cheap in comparison!
I'm pretty sure it's always been that way! :ohno: Maybe you're not old enough to understand that. You don't have a problem with American Companies moving jobs overseas? Your money used to buy products are not only being given other countries, but the jobs are sent over their too?

It's Unions that have forced ALL jobs overseas? How ridiculous!!:doh:

Iron76 acts like such a pathetic troll.

The MAPS Yes people are getting smoked in my neighborhood. My wife and I have a sign and there are two other houses with Pro-MAPS signs, but there are at least a dozen anti-MAPS signs in our 'hood.


What part of town?

I'm pretty sure it's always been that way! :ohno: Maybe you're not old enough to understand that. You don't have a problem with American Companies moving jobs overseas? Your money used to buy products are not only being given other countries, but the jobs are sent over their too?

It's Unions that have forced ALL jobs overseas? How ridiculous!!:doh:

Gosh, did I say labor has forced all the jobs overseas?? That's a fairly incoherent comment. I am not even sure what you said.

Actually, I am 51 and used to teach International Business Transactions to graduate students at OU. I am not only old enough to understand that, I'm practically old enough to have created dirt. Its been awhile since I taught but if you are going to argue that labor hasn't driven up the cost of doing business in the good ole USA resulting in job loss, then you just go for it. That one isn't even worth arguing. Or is that what you said? It wasn't too clear, to me.

Anyime iron76hd starts talking, I turn on the mute button. He just spews union crap left and right whether it's correct or not. Which works out well for me because when a modern union talks, I also turn the mute button on. I voted for right to work, and I'm damn glad to have it. It's sad to see how that type of organization has morphed itself from keeping people from dieing in the factories to the wage battles they have now. GM was a perfect exmaple of a union pricing itself out of the job. Yeah the employees get a great deal...if they're the ones that have been there 20 years (whether or not they sleep on the job now), but by god they had their 60K in salary/benefits for being a high school dropout (and before you bash that iron...thats a quote from an employee in that position that did an interview on KGOU).

You find me a modern union that does what a union in the lare 1800's did in terms of actually working for the worker, and I'll wave my white flag. Child Labor/unsafe conditions/cents per day/etc.

What part of town?
All over! Take a ride through a few neighborhoods and see!

but by god they had their 60K in salary/benefits for being a high school dropout (and before you bash that iron...thats a quote from an employee in that position that did an interview on KGOU).
I'm pretty sure you have to have a high school diploma to be hired, but if it was someone hired in the 60's or 70's it's a possibility. but "by god" they earned their salary and benefits. If you want a piece of it. There is an application process. Keep in mind, this is not the only city or law enforcement agency that possibly compensates their employee's with 60k in salary.

I voted for right to work, and I'm damn glad to have it.
What's so good about it? The overall power to fire someone without cause? Like their political views? Maybe their race? and the bottom line is you got taken for a ride on that vote didn't you? Where are all the businesses that were lined up to move to OKLAHOMA? WHERE ARE THEY?:doh:

The "Not This Maps" people went to the Crossroads Best Buy during Black Friday around 4am and passed out anti-MAPS propaganda and also handed out free donuts. They came to me in line (while wearing this smarky Tee shirts) and I yelled "I'm voting YES for MAPS." I took the guy by surprise and he hurried down the line.


Where can I get yard signs?

What's so good about it? The overall power to fire someone without cause? Like their political views? Maybe their race?

You are not only uninformed, you are spreading ignorance. An at will employee still can't be fired based on race and depending on what you mean by political views, often that is also protected (but that is more fact specific). You didn't mention it but just so you know, they also can't be fired on the basis of sex, national origin, ethnicity, religion, status of being disabled (unless they can't perform the essential functions of the job) or pregnancy.

What's so good about it? The overall power to fire someone without cause? Like their political views? Maybe their race? and the bottom line is you got taken for a ride on that vote didn't you? Where are all the businesses that were lined up to move to OKLAHOMA? WHERE ARE THEY?:doh:

Whoa there bud.

Leave the employment law advice to those who are actually qualified to comment on such matters. When you spew such verifiably false rhetoric, it just makes it easier to dismiss you.

Right to work had jack diddly to do with at will employment. They may be tangentially related, but that's about it. And as Penny said, you can't fire folks because of their race.

Leave the legal commenting to people who are qualified to do it and we'll leave the wharrrblgarbl to you.

(picture related)

http://paycreate.com/perry/wharrgarbl.jpg

Whoa there bud.

Leave the employment law advice to those who are actually qualified to comment on such matters.
Listen Proby, I didn't give any advice or legal opinion?

Right to work had jack diddly to do with at will employment.
Right to work was supposed to bring thousands of jobs to this state.

Leave the legal commenting to people who are qualified to do it and we'll leave the wharrrblgarbl to you.
What are you talking about? You aren't supposed to be able to fire someone because of their Political affiliation but you just read where that happened. I was commenting on a post that was put up. You go waive your bar # at someone who can't read and maybe they'll bow down. I can read believe it or not. You act like without a Bar # a person can't possibly understand any written law and can't even comment on it. I've been backstage to the Lawyer show. Not impressed by most. I'm going to explain to you one more time. I'm no lawyer, but then some with actual Bar #'s aren't really lawyers either. I mere member. That's about it.

Actually, in all fairness, you claimed the guy was fired for his political affiliation but offered no proof and only the flimsiest of evidence that they were connected. It could be that you are correct but absent a pre-existing belief, it just isn't there. Also, I am not exactly sure what law you believe protects against firing for political affiliation. Wasn't your guy working for a private employer? My specialty used to be government employers so I may be missing something, but I am unaware of protection against firing on the basis political affiliation when you are talking about a private employer. Any lawyers up on that issue in the house?

What are you talking about? You aren't supposed to be able to fire someone because of their Political affiliation but you just read where that happened.

Actually, you can absolutely fire someone for their political affiliation in Oklahoma. Other states may prevent this, but not Oklahoma. There are more protections for most public employees, but I don't need to tell you this again. Reread previous posts until it finally sinks in. Federal employment law creates certain categories, state law can add to but not take away from protected classes.


I'm no lawyer

This much is evident.

well, aaaannnyyyywaaaaaaaaaysssss, yes, the tearing down/removing of signs and posters is weak. i hate that stuff. but what can you do

well, aaaannnyyyywaaaaaaaaaysssss, yes, the tearing down/removing of signs and posters is weak. i hate that stuff. but what can you do

cameras, electro shocks, rabid squirrels, shotguns, though of course some choices are way more legal than others.

In younger days, I was very active in some campaigns. Going back out to replace signs was common. I was blessed with stout friends who liked pizza, so it was always fun to go back out when it was necessary to do so and then chow down afterwards.

Iron76 acts like such a pathetic troll.

No, he's not. It makes good sense, even if you're anti union, to be against right to work because since right to work passed in Oklahoma in 2001 employess CAN NOT be truthfully told, (but not government workers, they already had right to work) "If you let a union in here, they're gonna get to take money out of everybodys' paychecks, whether you want to be a union member or not." Therefore, now non-unionized employees can be assured they can try out a union to see if it's worth having around first and then decide if they want to pay dues to it out of every paycheck. In effect, this should make a union once in to work harder to gain the confidence of non union employees to persuade getting their memberships. Come to think of it, I found that to me one of the most persuasive points I heard for letting right to work in during the 2001 campaign for it.

So folks, no wonder Oklahoma didn't start something like create a new trend to follow when it passed right to work in 2001. No state has passed it since.

No, he's not. It makes good sense, even if you're anti union, to be against right to work because since right to work passed in Oklahoma in 2001 employess CAN NOT be truthfully told, (but not government workers, they already had right to work) "If you let a union in here, they're gonna get to take money out of everybodys' paychecks, whether you want to be a union member or not." Therefore, now non-unionized employees can be assured they can try out a union to see if it's worth having around first and then decide if they want to pay dues to it out of every paycheck. In effect, this should make a union once in to work harder to gain the confidence of non union employees to persuade getting their memberships. Come to think of it, I found that to me one of the most persuasive points I heard for letting right to work in during the 2001 campaign for it.

So folks, no wonder Oklahoma didn't start something like create a new trend to follow when it passed right to work in 2001. No state has passed it since.

I'm not arguing in favor of Right to Work. Geez. He's just a troll who showed up on this message board for the express purpose of pushing his propaganda here. He had never been a meaningful contributor here. I'm sure when the election's over and his side loses he will disappear.

He's just a troll who showed up on this message board for the express purpose of pushing his propaganda here. He had never been a meaningful contributor here.
Troll!!!! Personal Attack!!! Personal Attack!!! waaaaaa...
Come on now. I have a different point of view than you. That's not a crime. What, in your opinion, is a meaningful contributor?:irule:

Troll!!!! Personal Attack!!! Personal Attack!!! waaaaaa...
Come on now. I have a different point of view than you. That's not a crime. What, in your opinion, is a meaningful contributor?:irule:

Someone who isn't a political hack who only shows up during campaign season?

:bright_id

On the sign vandalizing: I'm sure that you are all aware that we anti-MIII's are getting our signs vandalized and stolen as well. This is not exclusive to the "Yes" side. We are all, both sides, victims of a cowardly few, (hopefully just a few), who cannot let an argument stand on its own merits.

As to trolling on this site: Really? I hadn't even known about OKCTALK prior to this MIII debate and was referred here by someone that I respect who at the time was fighting my Union's fight on here virtually alone. I'll continue to voice my opinions and insight in this forum because beside a vote, this could be my only voice in matters such as these. I'll use this forum for its intended purpose, to gain an insight into matters that directly influence myself and my city, it is not a right of yours to deny me mine simply because you think my motive fallible.

Iron types more loudly than most of us. So? If you choose to deny him the right to express himself because you think so lowly of him then you are denying yourself an opportunity to: A.) hear the opposition (and in most every opposition one can find merit), or at very least B.) to edify your own agenda, your own talking points, your own stance. Wouldn't it be fair to say that Iron has found insight in some of the oppositions threads?

Calling someone a "troll" is in effect "trolling." You would do better to elicit a response with meaningful argument.

disagreeing with someone denies them nothing.

Being loud, as you described him, doesn't warrant a high level of consideration in return.

Calling someone out for a lie or distortion can impact their credibility, but it is the lie or distortion which does so, not a light shining on it. And that statement is not limited to a specific poster, or even a specific side of the debate, or even to the MAPs3 debates. It's simply a universal truth.

There are folks here who debate passionately, but respectfully. There are folks who do not even make the attempt. May the board always have more of the former than the latter.

There are folks here who debate passionately, but respectfully. There are folks who do not even make the attempt. May the board always have more of the former than the latter.
Kevin Pate Circa 2009:doh:

Iron types more loudly than most of us. So? If you choose to deny him the right to express himself because you think so lowly of him then you are denying yourself an opportunity to: A.) hear the opposition (and in most every opposition one can find merit), or at very least B.) to edify your own agenda, your own talking points, your own stance. Wouldn't it be fair to say that Iron has found insight in some of the oppositions threads?

I'm very happy with him expressing himself. I suspect he's doing a better job promoting MAPS than he would ever guess.

I'm very happy with him expressing himself. I suspect he's doing a better job promoting MAPS than he would ever guess.That's the truth.

My 3 vote yes signs, no stuck in the city's easement but further back on my side of the sidewalk, were removed 2 nights ago. No problemo. I'll put up 5 this time. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif

The "Not This Maps" people went to the Crossroads Best Buy during Black Friday around 4am and passed out anti-MAPS propaganda and also handed out free donuts. They came to me in line (while wearing this smarky Tee shirts) and I yelled "I'm voting YES for MAPS." I took the guy by surprise and he hurried down the line.


Where can I get yard signs?

And? the guy is respecting your pov, he was passing it out to those ready to take the No pov..
Why would he argue with someone whose combative or loud?
its like blowing in the wind.

disagreeing with someone denies them nothing.

Being loud, as you described him, doesn't warrant a high level of consideration in return.

Calling someone out for a lie or distortion can impact their credibility, but it is the lie or distortion which does so, not a light shining on it. And that statement is not limited to a specific poster, or even a specific side of the debate, or even to the MAPs3 debates. It's simply a universal truth.

There are folks here who debate passionately, but respectfully. There are folks who do not even make the attempt. May the board always have more of the former than the latter.

Kevinpate

Good grief man, no one is asking for your consideration. Isn't every point of veiw, no matter how poorly punctuated, poorly referenced, poorly framed (or in your case highly condescending and argumentative at is very core) indicative of someone's belief? Shouldn't you also publicly respect those whom privately you despise simply for the sake of ease of use on this site?

I'll grant you "that disagreeing with someone denies them nothing." What I can't stomach is your choice to fight this fight as someone whose argument means more to anybody but himself, in fact in this latest thread that just the means by which you present your argument is somehow lofty and erudite. Arguing about how one argues is unnecessary, using sophistry to outmanuever the topic at hand.

Please spare us this for argument's sake. Don't read threads from those you don't like, and then what we are left with is just passionate, or factual, or obviously wrong, or blatantly pathetic posts that are all....right.

Back to topic: I'm voting no. Our signs are also vandilized.

MGE1977, you have your style, I have mine.

I don't have a problem calling out nonsense, you appear to think it need not be done. To each their own opinion, and style of expression.

As for signs getting thrashed, no legally placed sign should be disturbed, irrespective of its message.

If there are 1,000 even 10,000 Not this Maps signs placed where they are permitted, every last legal sign should still be in place until the polls close on the 8th, and removed shortly thereafter by those on that side of the issue.

The same is true for the Vote YES MAPs signs, whether there are 1,000 or 10,000 of those.

Removal of signs legally placed is childish at best, the act of cowards and hooligans at worst.