MAPS 3 features big projects along with unfamiliar smaller ones | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/p/12776/a/5040/Default.aspx?ReturnUrl=LwBkAGUAZgBhAHUAbAB0AC4AYQB zAHAAeAAslashAHAAPQAxADIANwAyADkA)

See an e-mail from Chamber President Roy Williams regarding internal polling on MAPS 3, which has not been released to the public:
Oklahoma City Chamber | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/Default.aspx?p=13082)

See an e-mail from Chamber President Roy Williams regarding internal polling on MAPS 3, which has not been released to the public:
Oklahoma City Chamber | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/Default.aspx?p=13082)

interesting..

from the linked article:


Fairgrounds improvements were not among the citizens’ top 20 ideas, but Cornett defended the proposal.
“We had a number of people who wanted improvements on the fairgrounds,” he said.
“It was named by a number of people. It wasn’t just pulled out of the blue.”

How did Fairgrounds improvements rate in the City's MAPS 3 Survey (that the Mayor has said many times is the basis for proceeding with MAPS 3)?


"All indications are that the VAST MAJORITY of people in the community want to go forward. That same web site recorded that over 85 percent of respondents said they wanted to pursue a MAPS 3"

Of the 2,747 individual ideas, a grand total of 22 people (0.8%) suggested Fairgrounds

So when the Mayor says "a number of people who wanted improvements on the fairgrounds", that number is 22. And I am sure that one of those 22 was Mr. Bennett who has served as the head honcho of the State Fair Board for many years (decades?) now.

How did the other projects fair in the Survey?
MAPS 3 | Oklahoma City (http://www.maps3.org/factsheet.html)

2,747 individual ideas the (%) is of the total number of suggestions and the number next to it is how many respondents suggested it.



Transit (light rail, streetcars, etc.)
(24.3%) 668
[I][would be interesting to see what the breakdown on this was, i.e., were downtown streetcars the component most suggested]

Trails
(5.1%) 140

Sidewalks
(3.7%) 100

New Convention Center
(1.45%) 40

Downtown "Central Park"
(1.3%) 36
[this was lumped together w/"General Parks Improvement/Expansion" w/123 suggestions, in the City's MAPS 3 press release, artificially inflating it to (5.8%) 159]

Senior Citizen Centers
(1.3%) 36

Outdoor Amphitheater [supposedly part of the Park]
(1%) 27

Fairgrounds
(0.8%) 22

Gateways to City
(0.35%) 12
[Technically not included in MAPS 3 but the Mayor often links the Boulevard and the Park together. Mayor has described the Boulevard this way, but unknown if that is what respondents had in mind]

Kayaking/River Improvements aren't remotely suggested in the survey. Most be someone's pet project.

Here are the items that scored at least as high as the ones that made the MAPS 3 list and/or prior funding methods (bond issues etc), but were not included in MAPS 3:

69 Downtown Retail
65 Football or Soccer Stadium
33 Free Downtown Parking
29 Lengthen Bricktown Canal
29 Police
27 Homeless
25 Senior Citizen Housing
23 Youth Athletic Facility
23 Citywide Wireless Internet

If the "Gateways to the City" (Boulevard) is included (* items most likely would be a result of MAPS 3):
20 Amusement Parks
20 Community Centers
20 Downtown General Improvements*
20 Economic Development*
17 Old Neighborhood Restoration
16 Opportunity Fund
15 Health Care
13 Aquarium
13 Arts Funding
13 More Retail in General*

Here are the items that scored at least as high as the ones that made the MAPS 3 list and/or prior funding methods (bond issues etc), but were not included in MAPS 3:

69 Downtown Retail
65 Football or Soccer Stadium
33 Free Downtown Parking
29 Lengthen Bricktown Canal
29 Police
27 Homeless
25 Senior Citizen Housing
23 Youth Athletic Facility
23 Citywide Wireless Internet

If the "Gateways to the City" (Boulevard) is included (* items most likely would be a result of MAPS 3):
20 Amusement Parks
20 Community Centers
20 Downtown General Improvements*
20 Economic Development*
17 Old Neighborhood Restoration
16 Opportunity Fund
15 Health Care
13 Aquarium
13 Arts Funding
13 More Retail in General*
Well I can certainly see why these items were not included.

69 Downtown Retail - you can't make successful retail by using tax money. Retail is a result of demographics which are not there in our downtown or most others, for that matter.
65 Football or Soccer Stadium [QUOTE]- a valid project, but since no viable user or serious proposal is out there to attract users, it shouldn't be included at this time.
33 Free Downtown Parking
- parking doesn't pay for itself. Nothing is free. Perhaps some consideration will be given to free downtown parking for seniors or something when the city's budget problems have been reduced.
29 Lengthen Bricktown Canal - a lot of us would like to see this.
29 Police - see the other threads. The funding is there, this is an issue between the citizens and the mayor/council.
27 Homeless
- for another thread. Lots of pro's and con's to this.
25 Senior Citizen Housing
- nothing would prevent the city from proposing some of the Core-to-Shore property be set aside for subsidized senior citizen housing. Federal Gov't probably has influence and funding for this.
23 Youth Athletic Facility
- Core-to-shore area already has Wheeler Park with its ballparks.
23 Citywide Wireless Internet
- Not a computer expert but I believe other cities are beginning to try this. What are the successes/problems with this?

There are reasons some of the issues above are not in the current MAPS.

There are reasons some of the issues above are not in the current MAPS.

If issues dont have the support of the political and financial to be gain by a very few.
Mayor Mickey can twist more around then any other homegrown thief
(politician) I know.

Again, we hear the worry about financial gain by a few. Life is pretty much like that unless you think we should just put the money everyone makes in a big pot and split it up. I deal with that by not worrying about whether some one else is going to benefit, as long as it benefits a larger group. Right now there is incredible construction going on at the Health Sciences Center. Should we stop that because the contractors are undoubtedly gaining financially? Is the fact that our university is expanding and offering more to the public, as well as the fact that there are a lot of people who have jobs because of the construction of no merit? It's entirely possible (and incredibly likely) that people made money on all the preceding MAPS projects. Would we be better off if they didn't happen? I think we need to spend less time worrying about who is going to make money constructing or selling land, and simply focus on whether the projects that will occur are good for the city.

I love wireless areas in cities. Beats hell out of stealing from your neighbors.

I love wireless areas in cities. Beats hell out of stealing from your neighbors.

no kidding..lol

Again, we hear the worry about financial gain by a few. Life is pretty much like that unless you think we should just put the money everyone makes in a big pot and split it up. I deal with that by not worrying about whether some one else is going to benefit, as long as it benefits a larger group. Right now there is incredible construction going on at the Health Sciences Center. Should we stop that because the contractors are undoubtedly gaining financially? Is the fact that our university is expanding and offering more to the public, as well as the fact that there are a lot of people who have jobs because of the construction of no merit? It's entirely possible (and incredibly likely) that people made money on all the preceding MAPS projects. Would we be better off if they didn't happen? I think we need to spend less time worrying about who is going to make money constructing or selling land, and simply focus on whether the projects that will occur are good for the city.

No its the bribery I'm concern with Betty.
Influence peddling is illegal, and I'm pretty damn sure Mayor Mickey does it.
Are you ok with it?
When did you stop caring about high standards for elected officials?
Could it be you're part of the good ole way, of slicking snot in the hands of locals officials?
When did you stop?
Could the problem be your aging FAST and feel like this ( giving your opinions) is the only way you can live long enough is to see some fantasy that is built on the limited incomes of some for the benefit of those who have not by their own labor but on others before them.
Why wont you just answer with the truth?
You have many times give long and often wordy "explanations", without actually "going there".

See an e-mail from Chamber President Roy Williams regarding internal polling on MAPS 3, which has not been released to the public:
Oklahoma City Chamber | OKG Scene.com (http://www.okgazette.com/Default.aspx?p=13082)

Wow, that's quite the smoking gun! This may be the biggest cover up since Watergate!

:rolleyes:

No its the bribery I'm concern with Betty.
Influence peddling is illegal, and I'm pretty damn sure Mayor Mickey does it.
Are you ok with it?
When did you stop caring about high standards for elected officials?
Could it be you're part of the good ole way, of slicking snot in the hands of locals officials?
When did you stop?
Could the problem be your aging FAST and feel like this ( giving your opinions) is the only way you can live long enough is to see some fantasy that is built on the limited incomes of some for the benefit of those who have not by their own labor but on others before them.
Why wont you just answer with the truth?
You have many times give long and often wordy "explanations", without actually "going there".

I post my opinion here, and I don't recall making any claims that my opinion is more than just that. Truth independent of opinion has links to hard data. If you're sure the mayor is doing something illegal, then, call the presses, call the city attorney, but don't post innuendo here that has no proof to back it up.

The "some" with limited incomes can apply for a rebate on the sales tax. A lot of the rest of us feel we're getting a lot for our penny, or we wouldn't keeping voting "yes" on the MAPS proposals. I have utilized almost every one of the first MAPS amenities, some more than others. I don't have chilren in school here, but I was very happy to be able to contribute towards the improvement of our older schools and the construction of new ones. There are a lot of middle and lower income people who received benefit from that being done, in my opinion. I personally would use a lot of the things being proposed in the new MAPS proposal and I can see them significantly improving Oklahoma City for residents and visitors. My opinion.

from the linked article:



How did Fairgrounds improvements rate in the City's MAPS 3 Survey (that the Mayor has said many times is the basis for proceeding with MAPS 3)?



Of the 2,747 individual ideas, a grand total of 22 people (0.8%) suggested Fairgrounds

So when the Mayor says "a number of people who wanted improvements on the fairgrounds", that number is 22. And I am sure that one of those 22 was Mr. Bennett who has served as the head honcho of the State Fair Board for many years (decades?) now.

How did the other projects fair in the Survey?
MAPS 3 | Oklahoma City (http://www.maps3.org/factsheet.html)

2,747 individual ideas the (%) is of the total number of suggestions and the number next to it is how many respondents suggested it.



Transit (light rail, streetcars, etc.)
(24.3%) 668
[I][would be interesting to see what the breakdown on this was, i.e., were downtown streetcars the component most suggested]

Trails
(5.1%) 140

Sidewalks
(3.7%) 100

New Convention Center
(1.45%) 40

Downtown "Central Park"
(1.3%) 36
[this was lumped together w/"General Parks Improvement/Expansion" w/123 suggestions, in the City's MAPS 3 press release, artificially inflating it to (5.8%) 159]

Senior Citizen Centers
(1.3%) 36

Outdoor Amphitheater [supposedly part of the Park]
(1%) 27

Fairgrounds
(0.8%) 22

Gateways to City
(0.35%) 12
[Technically not included in MAPS 3 but the Mayor often links the Boulevard and the Park together. Mayor has described the Boulevard this way, but unknown if that is what respondents had in mind]

Kayaking/River Improvements aren't remotely suggested in the survey. Most be someone's pet project.

Here are the items that scored at least as high as the ones that made the MAPS 3 list and/or prior funding methods (bond issues etc), but were not included in MAPS 3:

69 Downtown Retail
65 Football or Soccer Stadium
33 Free Downtown Parking
29 Lengthen Bricktown Canal
29 Police
27 Homeless
25 Senior Citizen Housing
23 Youth Athletic Facility
23 Citywide Wireless Internet

If the "Gateways to the City" (Boulevard) is included (* items most likely would be a result of MAPS 3):
20 Amusement Parks
20 Community Centers
20 Downtown General Improvements*
20 Economic Development*
17 Old Neighborhood Restoration
16 Opportunity Fund
15 Health Care
13 Aquarium
13 Arts Funding
13 More Retail in General*

just so you know ... no online survey of 2,747 people has any real statical relevance

f you're sure the mayor is doing something illegal, then, call the presses, call the city attorney, but don't post innuendo here that has no proof to back it up.
Gmwise. she has to see on video they mayor and someone from the chamber in a back alley handing him an envelope with money falling out. Ahhhh take that back. She'd just say the video was tampered with...and the mayor was set up...better yet...the police planted the money one him...you'd pull the money out of his right pant pocket and the mayor would yell..."these ain't my pants"...

Betty,

Take a look...
Cornett Blogs (http://markshannon.com/CORNETT.htm)

Betty,

Take a look...
Cornett Blogs (http://markshannon.com/CORNETT.htm)

Quit linking to Shannon's blog like that is proof of anything. Most people don't take him too seriously.

just so you know ... no online survey of 2,747 people has any real statical relevance

Don't disagree and the survey site, clearly points out it's "limitations" (non-scientific, 4 month, open to anyone, didn't have to be a registered OKC voter, received suggestions from all 50 states and several foreign countries, taken over 2 years ago, could vote early and often, etc.)

Yet it is this Survey that the Mayor keeps using as the basis to move forward with a MAPS 3...mentioned that they are listening to the people (12 of the 14 top suggestions are either addressed in MAPS 3 or other things like the 2007 General Obligation and School bond issues).

They say they are listening, but what did they hear? The Mayor has correctly stated mass transit means different things to different people and it was the most suggested item in the Survey (all lumped together). What did we end up getting when MAPS 3 was revealed? Just the Downtown Streetcars. Since they lumped it all together in the Survey, we don't know if Streetcars were the most favored or not. But just like when the City lumped General Park improvements with the Central Park (in a MAPS 3 press release), it artificially inflated the Park to make it look much more prominent (the 2nd most requested).

Just to be clear, in the earlier posting listing the rankings and which items made the cut and didn't, I wasn't advocating one way or the other on them. Or suggesting that they were/weren't MAPS worthy. These were suggestions that (for the sake of argument) were made by our fellow OKCitians.

Shoot, they only included the items suggested by at least 10 people. An Oklahoma columnist, mentioned that someone suggested a Pirate Ship!

And before any one says the Mayor never said that...

From the Mayor's 2009 state of the City address:


"All indications are that the VAST MAJORITY of people in the community want to go forward. That same web site recorded that over 85 percent of respondents said they wanted to pursue a MAPS 3"

But 85% of 2,747 respondents in a city of just over a half-million people hardly can lead to a blanket statement that "the VAST MAJORITY of people in the community" want a MAPS 3. IMO

Quit linking to Shannon's blog like that is proof of anything. Most people don't take him too seriously.
:congrats:

If theres smoke there's fire


Or if they are heard to be into nesting others eggs for their gain...
Mayor Mickey will be a subject of a federal investigation sooner or later.

I love wireless areas in cities. Beats hell out of stealing from your neighbors.

Beats being the neighbor people are probably stealing from. :tiphat:

And before any one says the Mayor never said that...

From the Mayor's 2009 state of the City address:

But 85% of 2,747 respondents in a city of just over a half-million people hardly can lead to a blanket statement that "the VAST MAJORITY of people in the community" want a MAPS 3. IMO

Perhaps the mayor has talked to "a few" other people besides those surveyed. I have. Obviously my selection is not random, as they're people I'm at least vague acquaintances of, with the exception of the two people outside the Ford Center at the AC/DC concert.

I have yet to talk to a single person in person who doesn't think MAPS was a smashing success and who's not fervently in favor of continuation. In fact today I talked to several twenty-somethings who were having a conversation with a friend of mine. One said, "Anyone who thinks Oklahoma City has made it has not lived anywhere else. It's fine, but my husband and I have already been talking about moving to a city with more going on." The other said in response, "The only reason I'm staying is because I love Oklahoma." Both said, unsolicited by me (as the conversation was already going on when I joined it), that they couldn't imagine not voting for MAPS.

People, we need to pass this thing (quit nitpicking) and stay on a roll; because if we don't, Police and Fire Departments will continue to use this as a bargaining chip, whenever they want to position themselves to negotiate against the City.

We will never get on a roll like this again and this City will continue its decay of the late '80's and we will lag further behind the agressive cities like Phoenix, Nashville, Raleigh, Austin, Fort Worth and Albuquerque for bringing in new money to this area.

Conventions bring in new circulating money--you only need to look at Dallas and Houston to assess what the convention industry has done for those cities.

Trust your city leaders, everthing in MAPS 3 is not going to appeal to everyone; however, the City is flexible in making adjustments.

We are centrally located with an abundance of water, natural and diverse human resources. We have access to a major airport, great universities and trade schools and we are close enough to Dallas without the headaches of a mega city as the Metroplex.

Look for new businesses and industries to come to our region because of our central location and our positive voting image toward our City.

They can always come back with projects and better ballot language.

People, we need to pass this thing (quit nitpicking) and stay on a roll; because if we don't, Police and Fire Departments will continue to use this as a bargaining chip, whenever they want to position themselves to negotiate against the City.

We will never get on a roll like this again and this City will continue its decay of the late '80's and we will lag further behind the agressive cities like Phoenix, Nashville, Raleigh, Austin, Fort Worth and Albuquerque for bringing in new money to this area.

Conventions bring in new circulating money--you only need to look at Dallas and Houston to assess what the convention industry has done for those cities.

Trust your city leaders, everthing in MAPS 3 is not going to appeal to everyone; however, the City is flexible in making adjustments.

We are centrally located with an abundance of water, natural and diverse human resources. We have access to a major airport, great universities and trade schools and we are close enough to Dallas without the headaches of a mega city as the Metroplex.

Look for new businesses and industries to come to our region because of our central location and our positive voting image toward our City.

:kicking::kicking::kicking::yourock::k-bunny::k-bunny::busterbun