We had a pretty good turn out this past weekend. Being a season seat member myself, I have seen the product greatly improve since the start of the season, these past 4 or 5 games has been fairly enjoyable soccer. From what I hear there is a fairly large group of supporters or potential supporters who have been unhappy with Taft Stadium's setting, i.e. the existence of a track, quality of seating, location, parking issues. From my own experience, we need to have a stadium that was designed for soccer, not a multipurpose stadium. Even though I want the stadium now, I rather not ask for tax payer money. Hence why I support a "pop-up" stadium such as Rising Phoenix has. There are a number of areas which I believe the stadium location would be a good fit. There seems to be some vacant land around E Grand Blvd and SE 22nd that could be a good fit. Of course there is the Crossroads Mall site that might do well, though I prefer it to be closer to the CBD, and the USL is getting more strict on how far out a club can be from a downtown center.

I can't help but think people in OK are still in the mindset that they will only throw support for a major league team, i.e. the support for the Thunder wouldn't be there if we only had a D-League team. But the soccer community is changing and with time I imagine people will see the flaws with the MLS. I personally hope to we stay in the USL, since the MLS essentially owns the teams and franchises them out to owners rather than teams being individually owned. I also think with how many teams are in the USL, you see more variety in the competition. I also would like to see the Energy FC ownership put the major league investment and get us to the top of USL consistently rather than waste money away on the MLS fees. But this is just a small part of a much large conversation about soccer in the U.S.

They play a 17 game regular season home schedule. Seems like quite an investment in potential disruption of a city park as well as a sizeable commitment of tax payer revenue to justify for a team that is minor league. Most nights there is no local coverage on the sports segment of the local news. I think a study needs to be done by an independent entity( not the CC or Funk) to determine how much interest there is and whether that interest translates to the cost. Maybe Funk should partner with one of the Native American nations to see it happen.

They used to be broadcast on YouTube and one of the local Cox channels, however this season the USL sold the rights to ESPN, and now people have to pay for ESPN+...

They're getting pressure from the league is my understanding. They have an exemption to be playing in a high school stadium and are the last ones left doing so in the whole league. I'm sure the 2020 soccer-specific thing comes into play a bit as well.

This is the more likely situation. Currently, the field at Taft Stadium is the narrowest in the USL nationwide, which is also under width requirements for a soccer field. They knew this when re-designing Taft and didn't do anything about, so I assume they were planning on not staying in Taft for a long period of time.

We had a pretty good turn out this past weekend. Being a season seat member myself, I have seen the product greatly improve since the start of the season, these past 4 or 5 games has been fairly enjoyable soccer. From what I hear there is a fairly large group of supporters or potential supporters who have been unhappy with Taft Stadium's setting, i.e. the existence of a track, quality of seating, location, parking issues. From my own experience, we need to have a stadium that was designed for soccer, not a multipurpose stadium. Even though I want the stadium now, I rather not ask for tax payer money. Hence why I support a "pop-up" stadium such as Rising Phoenix has. There are a number of areas which I believe the stadium location would be a good fit. There seems to be some vacant land around E Grand Blvd and SE 22nd that could be a good fit. Of course there is the Crossroads Mall site that might do well, though I prefer it to be closer to the CBD, and the USL is getting more strict on how far out a club can be from a downtown center.

What parking issues are you talking about?

how has attendance been this year?

seems like to me and the people i follow on social media, the buzz seems over.

The $12.5 million OKC spent to renovate Taft Stadium, the City could have built a decent 20,000-seat double decker stadium (without all the bells & whistles) on the riverfront for less than $25 million on land the City owns.

Energy FC did better when we had Rayo OKC in the competitive mix.

As of the following date:
Taking Attendance 4/25/2018: First USL Numbers Of The Season: http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=9581

Check out the notes in the above link, majority of the USL franchises are down. As soon as an update on Kenn.com is available (this one is 2 months back), will post an update.

I'm under the impression a renovation of Taft stadium was going to happen regardless, just like with the stadium at Grant (?).

I'm under the impression a renovation of Taft stadium was going to happen regardless, just like with the stadium at Grant (?).

Good reminder that Taft & Capitol Hill stadiums were preservation projects.

Mick Cornett did admit that he would have liked to put some kind of football stadium on one of the early MAPS initiatives. There just wasn't enough funds that could have done a stadium justice.

What parking issues are you talking about?

Currently most people have to park on neighborhood streets or in the lot at NW Classen HS and cross over May Ave. It isn't about lack of parking, rather it is not the safest setup.

Lack of parking and sitting in the hot sun keeps me from going. What ever they decide to do most of the stands need to be on the west side of the stadium with some shade. Go to a baseball game in bricktown your sitting on the 3rd base side.

I'm under the impression a renovation of Taft stadium was going to happen regardless, just like with the stadium at Grant (?).

Right, its a high school football stadium first, professional soccer stadium second. It wouldn't have made sense to optimize it for soccer.

Sacramento spend 3 mil on their 8k usl stadium in 2014. This doesn’t have to cost that much money

Sacramento spend 3 mil on their 8k usl stadium in 2014. This doesn’t have to cost that much money

Exactly. In fact, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems to me that they're going to go the pop-up stadium route after this season in an attempt to boost interest back up. I'm sure Prodigal can fully fund a 7,000-8,000 seat pop-up stadium. From there, try to market the team better, and make a push for a permanent stadium if/when the pop-up stadium starts selling out consistently. Now, I do have my doubts about whether they can market the team successfully, as the last 2-3 seasons have been uninspiring at best in that regard, but the fact that they brought in the co-founder of one of the most successful teams in the USL at least gives me hope that they're going to try.

Some articles on stadiums:

http://www.us.jll.com/united-states/en-us/news/4697/jll-builds-phoenix-rising-fc-soccer-stadium

http://midfieldpress.com/2017/08/14/understanding-modular-stadiums-the-future-of-lower-division-soccer/

"So how many billions of dollars would a North American city have to pay for a great-looking stadium that could seat up to 27,528 fans? Vancouver paid $14.4 million. In the world of big-time sports, $14.4 million is pocket change."

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2018/05/halifax-pop-up-stadium-to-open-next-month/

http://soccerstadiumdigest.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Halifax-stadium-rendering.jpg

https://www.thecoast.ca/RealityBites/archives/2017/03/24/pop-up-soccer-stadium-could-come-together-this-summer

"Current plans call for an easy-to-assemble facility with two large bleachers seating 5,000 to 6,000 people. Martin says it may even have a beer garden for refreshments.
...
While it’s too early for him to discuss financials, Martin told reporters the combined costs for a team and stadium would run between $3 to $4 million, and will be financed by private investors. The company isn’t asking for funding from HRM, and SAE will assume all installation and management costs."

Exactly. In fact, the more I think about it, the more likely it seems to me that they're going to go the pop-up stadium route after this season in an attempt to boost interest back up. I'm sure Prodigal can fully fund a 7,000-8,000 seat pop-up stadium. From there, try to market the team better, and make a push for a permanent stadium if/when the pop-up stadium starts selling out consistently. Now, I do have my doubts about whether they can market the team successfully, as the last 2-3 seasons have been uninspiring at best in that regard, but the fact that they brought in the co-founder of one of the most successful teams in the USL at least gives me hope that they're going to try.

And worst case scenario, if the Energy FC ends up folding at some point it would be a lot easier to put that stadium back in the shipping containers it arrived in and sell it to somebody else than it would be to to sell any kind of permanent stadium.

Being out of the market but being knowledgeable about Taft Stadium, what is unacceptable about the nicely remodeled Taft creating the need for a new stadium?

The size of the field is below USL standards and the team cannot host any US Open Cup games because of the size.

And worst case scenario, if the Energy FC ends up folding at some point it would be a lot easier to put that stadium back in the shipping containers it arrived in and sell it to somebody else than it would be to to sell any kind of permanent stadium.

Yeah, attendance is pretty dire this year but I have to believe this market is big enough to support a second-division soccer team. I just don't think they've ever been promoted quite right, so interest has really fallen off once the initial buzz calmed down. Hopefully Prodigal either fixes that, or eventually sells the team to someone who can succeed in this market. MLS has always seemed like a pipe dream, but OKC is just about middle of the road in terms of USL markets. I don't think there's any reason the Energy can't at least draw 5,000 per game.

As someone else mentioned above, the sun in Oklahoma is a pretty big issue. And being the time of year that they have the games, its going to be the hottest part of the day and the sun is up till after 9. Granted, it gets cooler by 8-830, but that's halfway through the game. When we get to the permanent stadium, i think the awning for sun shade is going to be a necessary item.

I was never a big fan of them using Taft and you can go back in this very thread to find me voicing that and about how Taft is first and foremost a HS stadium and any work done there should be for the betterment of OKCPS kids, not anyone else. The Energy just helped and made some extra changes. But they've stayed their time, and it's time they moved on. Good leadership from the ownership would have capitalized on the first year buzz to put money away for a new stadium. What i'm seeing is that they were hoping the city would step in and provide the land or even the stadium, so that money is gone and squandered. Lost opportunity.

I dont want the city paying for a facility for a minor league team. This isn't like the Dodgers where the stadium was a crown jewel in a MAPs project. We could do that, and im no opposed to that, IF the stadium can be used for other things. And that's where i think the deal breaks down. OKC would be looking at 30-40k seats for a stadium that can host anything worth its time. If you're looking at 5-6 attendance max right now, that's gonna make the place feel super empty. That's high school football stadium numbers. You can still build a VERY nice high school size stadium for those dollars and that size though. Look at basically any 6a Texas high school on how fancy-pants those can get. BUT, i dont think that's a deal OKC residents should pay in to. If its multipurpose, then you can host high school playoffs, band contests, DCI, etc. If it has to be soccer specific then you lose everything except some small soccer events. And come on, who wants to come to a pop-up stadium fora soccer event? Maybe some local high school age team tournies or something, but your extremely limited.

Hopefully Prodigal either fixes that,..

hahahahahaha... as someone who sat on the season seat holder advisory board for the Barons... I wouldn't hold my breath. Prodigal keeps doing things the same way and waiting for different results.

If its multipurpose, then you can host high school playoffs, band contests, DCI, etc. If it has to be soccer specific then you lose everything except some small soccer events.

Agree with pretty much all your points, just want to point out that Children's Mercy Park in KC hosts other types of events, from concerts to lower division college football playoff games (can't remember if it's NAIA or what). Not sure on field dimensions, but would rugby would work as well? Depending on how much you wanted to put on your turf.

I had season tickets for the first year of the team back when they were playing at McGinnuess. Then we had kids and had to give up the tickets but I hope to get them back one day. One thing I dislike about Taft is the lack of nearby amenities, IE bars and restaurants near that I want to go to. BMG was great because you could easily walk across western and hit up the barfecta. I guess I don't really see that improving with the pop-up stadium if they're just looking to get it up (especially if it goes on the fairgrounds).

Another thing (and maybe it's just me) but I feel like it's harder for the average sports fan to engage with minor league teams, especially a team like the Energy where it isn't part of a professional team's identity (I know there's the relationship with FC Dallas but I don't think that's the same). The rosters are so fluid, it's more difficult to build the 'relationships' with players like many people feel they have with their favorite pro team. The product on the field can be so dramatically up and down as a result.

Basketball Cavalry here didn’t have great attendance. Thunder has a very long sold-out streak going. Minor league attendance doesn’t necessarily predict major league attendance. People know the difference and will pay for better play and better competition, as well as for a big-league experience.

I wish Rayo OKC would have succeeded. They signed better players and were more exciting to watch than Energy.

Basketball Cavalry here didn’t have great attendance. Thunder has a very long sold-out streak going. Minor league attendance doesn’t necessarily predict major league attendance. People know the difference and will pay for better play and better competition, as well as for a big-league experience.

Agree, this is why you wouldn't want to use poor minor league attendance as an indicator to gauge future major league performance. There are other demographic factors to better gauge a market's potential. OKC & Fort Worth had better CHL minor league hockey attendance than Dallas & Nashville; cities where the NHL looked at the TV Households, potential corporate support & long-term viability to sustain a franchise.

Taft Stadium is a great high school venue with emphasis on the HS sports like football, soccer, track & field.

A new regulation soccer specific stadium with room for expansion could help the sport immensely. OKC has a competitive NBA arena, great AAA baseball venue; however let's address the need for a soccer-American football venue. It would give us a well rounded season of sports on OKC's highest level that could support minor league football. A soccer specific stadium could be used for outdoor concerts and large gatherings.

I wish Rayo OKC would have succeeded. They signed better players and were more exciting to watch than Energy.

Debatable on whether it was more interesting... If you mean unruly supporters chunking bottles and trash at players than yes, it might have been more exciting.

I too would have liked to see the club remain, but their ownership group was too fractured and then to have their Spanish investor club get relegated just didn't spell success for a new club. I wouldn't mind seeing other teams in the metro area, maybe a USL D3 team along with a NIISA or whatever the new Div 4 league will be. I am all in for having more soccer around.

Debatable on whether it was more interesting... If you mean unruly supporters chunking bottles and trash at players than yes, it might have been more exciting.

I too would have liked to see the club remain, but their ownership group was too fractured and then to have their Spanish investor club get relegated just didn't spell success for a new club. I wouldn't mind seeing other teams in the metro area, maybe a USL D3 team along with a NIISA or whatever the new Div 4 league will be. I am all in for having more soccer around.

An NWSL club would be nice, might be a bit of a pipe dream, though.

Debatable on whether it was more interesting... If you mean unruly supporters chunking bottles and trash at players than yes, it might have been more exciting.

I too would have liked to see the club remain, but their ownership group was too fractured and then to have their Spanish investor club get relegated just didn't spell success for a new club. I wouldn't mind seeing other teams in the metro area, maybe a USL D3 team along with a NIISA or whatever the new Div 4 league will be. I am all in for having more soccer around.

USL D3 https://www.usld3.com/

NISA (National Independent Soccer Association) https://www.nisaofficial.com/


An NWSL club would be nice, might be a bit of a pipe dream, though.

NWSL (National Women's Soccer League http://www.nwslsoccer.com/

Kenn.com (Attendance): http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/

An NWSL club would be nice, might be a bit of a pipe dream, though.

I have been wanting the Energy FC ownership group to start a NWSL club. With the DA academy getting started and the success of the WPSL club Oklahoma City FC, I think the metro is ready for the top flight of Women's professional soccer.

Looks like the Energy may be moving to Chisholm Creek:

http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=520-Soccer-stadium-planned-for-far-North-OKC

Boooooo

There has been discussion about the possibility of removing the track at Taft to make it more soccer-friendly.

As you can see from this recent photo from https://www.facebook.com/EnergyFC, that does not appear to be happening. Looks like they are just replacing the turf and the field is still very narrow by soccer standards.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/taft071422a.jpg

Is there still talks of building the stadium in Chisholm Creek? IMO that's still the best case scenario

Is there still talks of building the stadium in Chisholm Creek? IMO that's still the best case scenario

I think east of Omni would be a great place and right in the center of the city just off 40 and 235

Is there still talks of building the stadium in Chisholm Creek? IMO that's still the best case scenario

No, that ship has sailed. One big factor was that the Energy did a bunch of focus groups with their fans and found there wasn't a lot of support for that location.

The Energy will almost certainly stay at Taft until the new MAPS stadium is built and open, something that is going to take at least 5 years.

I could see this spot for the stadium as well, to bad that entire area is split by OKC blvd, I'm referring to the above road areas that you have to walk under on western and blackwelder


You are talking about the area I highlighted right?

17554

Yes, that's the area I'm referring to.

Regarding the idea that the Farmers Market area is 15-20 years away from walkability/community, I strongly disagree. With a huge stadium development and the associated large influx of people (and their spending money), all you'd really need is a little bit of streetscaping to clean it up.

You've already got the Farmers Market itself, Palo Santo, Powerhouse, Loaded Bowl, a yoga place, a plant shop, a couple small retail outlets, Urban Agrarian, Bad Axe Throwing, Anthem, Lively, two Strawberry Fields projects, that weird outdoor weed place, and a new gas station within 2 blocks of this place. It's ready made for a big investment like the stadium. You'd basically have a full, lively, soccer fan neighborhood pop up overnight with the stadium and a little streetscaping. Both of which would spur more investment in the huge old building stock nearby. It's a knockout just waiting to happen.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/taft072422a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/taft072422b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/taft072422c.jpg

I am so glad they didn't tear down the original front. I went to Taft and NW .. graduated in 1964.

I am so glad they didn't tear down the original front. I went to Taft and NW .. graduated in 1964.
I'm completely with you. I went to both and graduated in 1977. To me that front is iconic.

My mom said her grandpa helped build Taft stadium. She would've been 85 this year.

I have no idea why OKCPS wouldn't just remove the track at Taft, which is smaller than the one across the street, and make this a Soccer/Football only venue. Then put some money into building seating and press boxes at the larger, better sized area for field and Track events on the east side of NW Classen HS. It is a bit aggravating.

I have no idea why OKCPS wouldn't just remove the track at Taft, which is smaller than the one across the street, and make this a Soccer/Football only venue. Then put some money into building seating and press boxes at the larger, better sized area for field and Track events on the east side of NW Classen HS. It is a bit aggravating.

It's very dumb, but still not as dumb as the Energy taking an entire season off for renovations that seemingly could have been completed in what, maybe two or three weeks? From the outside looking in, the whole situation just seems like an absolute disaster, although I'm sure there's a variety of information on both sides that I'm not privy to.

Folks Taft is a HIGH SCHOOL field. This is FIRST and foremost for OKCPS. Energy has to take a back seat. They want to contribute in some way to make some things better, cool, whatever. But don't screw with the functions of the facility (ie the track) just because the Energy wants it. If it doesn't benefit OKCPS or if it makes them pay for it, then absolutely no. If it benefits OKCPS and someone else is willing to pay for it, then great, fine, whatever. But the Energy absolutely does not get to come in to this place and start making terms. If that happens, OKCPS can just kick them out and make things a lot less complicated. Less wear and tear on the facility to not have them there.

Folks Taft is a HIGH SCHOOL field. This is FIRST and foremost for OKCPS. Energy has to take a back seat. They want to contribute in some way to make some things better, cool, whatever. But don't screw with the functions of the facility (ie the track) just because the Energy wants it. If it doesn't benefit OKCPS or if it makes them pay for it, then absolutely no. If it benefits OKCPS and someone else is willing to pay for it, then great, fine, whatever. But the Energy absolutely does not get to come in to this place and start making terms. If that happens, OKCPS can just kick them out and make things a lot less complicated. Less wear and tear on the facility to not have them there.

I could not possibly agree more. Right on bomber!

Not disagreeing in principle but Taft is a middle school and the high school across the street has its own track and field...

Not disagreeing in principle but Taft is a middle school and the high school across the street has its own track and field...

Right, but Taft has always been used by other OKC schools in addition to Northwest Classen.

And it's frequently used by the OKC public schools for band competitions, track meets, all-city preseason football, etc.

That's good context for everyone

Right, but Taft has always been used by other OKC schools in addition to Northwest Classen.

And it's frequently used by the OKC public schools for band competitions, track meets, all-city preseason football, etc.

Not to argue, but I have not seen a band competition at Taft for some time.

And I was not saying Taft should cater to the Energy, rather as a football spectator and marching band alum, I have always preferred trackless stadiums. Much better fan experience to be closer to the action. My point was why the HS track and field facility, which is more appropriately sized for Track and Field events was not upgraded with seating for such events and Taft allowed to have larger stands, larger field size for football, band, soccer, lacrosse, graduation, outdoor concerts, etc.

I know a lot of the divisional T&F meets are happening at PC North or Original instead of Taft and most others happen in suburbs like Edmond, Norman, and Yukon.

Taft is a part of this place.

Not to argue, but I have not seen a band competition at Taft for some time.

And I was not saying Taft should cater to the Energy, rather as a football spectator and marching band alum, I have always preferred trackless stadiums. Much better fan experience to be closer to the action. My point was why the HS track and field facility, which is more appropriately sized for Track and Field events was not upgraded with seating for such events and Taft allowed to have larger stands, larger field size for football, band, soccer, lacrosse, graduation, outdoor concerts, etc.

I know a lot of the divisional T&F meets are happening at PC North or Original instead of Taft and most others happen in suburbs like Edmond, Norman, and Yukon.

Look, the school district just spent a ton of money to renovate Taft and purposely put in a new track. This is OKC public schools that is always strapped for cash.

That stadium isn't just used by Northwest, but it's also home to John Marshall and middle schools and even elementaries.

The Energy came along later (after McGuiness did not want to renew) and could leave again at any time. In fact, they were looking to do that at Chisholm Creek.


This is yet another silly argument. The new field is already in and the track isn't going anywhere. And there were very good reasons behind all of those decisions.

Not to argue, but I have not seen a band competition at Taft for some time.

And I was not saying Taft should cater to the Energy, rather as a football spectator and marching band alum, I have always preferred trackless stadiums. Much better fan experience to be closer to the action. My point was why the HS track and field facility, which is more appropriately sized for Track and Field events was not upgraded with seating for such events and Taft allowed to have larger stands, larger field size for football, band, soccer, lacrosse, graduation, outdoor concerts, etc.

I know a lot of the divisional T&F meets are happening at PC North or Original instead of Taft and most others happen in suburbs like Edmond, Norman, and Yukon.
Removing the track wouldn't put fans closer to the football field unless another major remodel was done. Not very likely to ever happen. I agree with Pete that the whole track or no track is a silly argument.

Maybe I should have prefaced, when they did the first remodel of Taft, that is when they should have left out the track.

Not to argue, but I have not seen a band competition at Taft for some time.

And I was not saying Taft should cater to the Energy, rather as a football spectator and marching band alum, I have always preferred trackless stadiums. Much better fan experience to be closer to the action. My point was why the HS track and field facility, which is more appropriately sized for Track and Field events was not upgraded with seating for such events and Taft allowed to have larger stands, larger field size for football, band, soccer, lacrosse, graduation, outdoor concerts, etc.

I know a lot of the divisional T&F meets are happening at PC North or Original instead of Taft and most others happen in suburbs like Edmond, Norman, and Yukon.

It's been a hot minute, but there was actually a DCI event there about 15 years ago for the smaller divisions. It wasn't advertised like anywhere. A friend of mine happened to have seen it and so we ran up there and it was pretty stinking cool. The event changed a bit and moved to Mustang HS in the years after Mustang renovated their stadium. This was before OKCPS rebuilt the seating so those high angle site lines were pretty amazing. It really is a shame that the new seating lost that high angle, but you can appreciate it when you walk up the steps LOL.

Maybe I should have prefaced, when they did the first remodel of Taft, that is when they should have left out the track.

If they'd left out the track how much closer would the stands be to the field?

If they'd left out the track how much closer would the stands be to the field?

Just a estimate from the picture in my head but maybe 20ft.

Just a estimate from the picture in my head but maybe 20ft.

I was responding to the remodel, not the original design. And the answer is no closer.

I was responding to the remodel, not the original design. And the answer is no closer.

Ok. Absolutely true in that case. I was thinking back to the post about if the track was left out during the remodel.

If they'd left out the track how much closer would the stands be to the field?

zero feet because you're not going to pick up the stadium and move it. They also aren't going to shift it all to one side of the stands, only to double the green space for the other side.
If you take the track out, you just add more green space of nothing. It'll look like UCO's field.

Everything seems good. The Energy resurfaced the stadium. Oklahoma City will build a soccer field. I am unsure if Bill's across the street will ever accept credit cards.

Just making sure everyone in this thread realizes, regulation-sized soccer fields are wider than football fields, this would be the entire reason for removing the track.

Just making sure everyone in this thread realizes, regulation-sized soccer fields are wider than football fields, this would be the entire reason for removing the track.

I understand that, but it means that the stadium looses something it has, just for the Energy, which is a temporary user. I would argue, they can continue to make do until they build their own.

I'm not an OKPS student or parent or anything like that, but I am protective of education resources being used in ways that do not benefit education. If you can show me how removing the track and expanding the turf will help OKCPS in some way (even though the high school soccer regulation field fits here), then great. Otherwise, I can't support this.

I understand that, but it means that the stadium looses something it has, just for the Energy, which is a temporary user. I would argue, they can continue to make do until they build their own.

I'm not an OKPS student or parent or anything like that, but I am protective of education resources being used in ways that do not benefit education. If you can show me how removing the track and expanding the turf will help OKCPS in some way (even though the high school soccer regulation field fits here), then great. Otherwise, I can't support this.

HS regulation soccer is still wider than a football field.
American Football field: 120yd x 53 1/3yd
HS Soccer field: 100-120yd x 55-80yd