The original post is basically flamebait. Seriously, who cares?

Allowing the city to become a more urban, grown-up version of itself will ensure it's still here and functioning in fifty years, because that is what draws talent employers seek.

I suppose someday we may look back and lament the loss of weedy parking lots, strip malls, neglected streets and sidewalks and endless highways going nowhere, no pedestrian activity, obesity and miles of fast-food restaurants. But I'm willing to take my chances.

:congrats:

Well said. Regardless of what the old guard wants for the future (no offense), they will eventually die off, and the city will be left to operate by us what are currently young professionals, and the city needs to have more amenities, density, sustainability, walkability, and other quality of life issues to keep enough of us around in 30+ years to run this City.

Personally, I won't miss the endless sprawl, large chunks of city that become dilapidated within 20 years, miles of fast food restaurants, empty lots, vast parking lots, etc.

Exactly what is it that you would be looking for that the 20-30 age group would want that is the type of thing this type of project can fund? Maybe give us an example? Just remember, by the time these projects would be completed, you probably won't be a 20-30 something but a 30-40 something - maybe married, maybe with children - and with totally different priorities.

A thriving night life and a huge selection of places to shop will never happen without an influx of residents into the downtown area.

Well, for one, it would be really nice if there was a place to go, not necessarily a bar or club, where we could hang out, watch a game, have a meal, just be ourselves, without having to worry about offending some family or group of children. It seems like every single thing opening up or reopening as an entertainment-type place is family-oriented. I've got no problem with family-oriented businesses, but it seems like it's a little out of hand here.

Example: we were at Coaches, a group of 7 or 8 watching a game, having fun, spending money. We were asked to keep it down or move outside because we were startling and disrupting a couple with an infant clear on the other side of the establishment. I think we left that time, I honestly can't remember because it has happened numerous times around town.

Sometimes it really feels like the way non-smokers will deliberately locate a group of smokers just so they can complain about them. I know that's not what's going on, it just feels that way most of the time. And in this city, the "family" always trumps the group of single people with nothing but disposable income to spend.

What we want isn't just a "dive" to go get drunk, as suggested on this forum numerous times.

I'll get to the whole liquor thing below-




jc4455 - email your friends again and ask how many planning to leave the state because of 3.5 beer.

If getting a higher alcohol content is your beer is your biggest ambition in life then MAPS III might not be for you. I was once a 20-something living in Norman and after graduating from OU I had to leave the state to find a job. I was more concerned about finding a job with an income I could raise a family on than I was with how much beer I had to drink to get drunk – but that’s just me.

First of all, it's not just about 3.5 beer. Sure, that's a major factor and a pita when we have to drive to Texas to buy real domestic beer, but it isn't the only problem in this state.

There's the fact that you can't drink in public. When I say "drink in public" I don't mean staggering up and down the streets pissing ourselves. I'm talking about cookouts at the lake, or a park, or trying to have an amateur brewing competition at a "public" location that isn't a bar.

You will get a ticket for $50, sometimes $150 for having a beer with your friends at a park. I know, because I, and almost everyone I hang out with, has before.

As far as I know, the only place you can legally drink in public is in Norman during OU games.

There's the refrigeration thing, the wine issues, the fact that certain brands won't even sell here because of restrictions, even though they're shipped through Oklahoma to get to a final destination.

You're right though, the 3.5 thing is an issue, but we've really got very little problem spending our money in another state to bypass it.



I'm confident should MAPS 3 pass, it will solve a lot of the "wants" category. The mass transit alone will go a long ways in connectivity and walkability of tieing our hip districts together, and bring together the cohesion we seek. OKC still needs upscale shopping (including a WF type grocer) ANYWHERE, even if it's not downtown. More entertainment options as well that aren't clubs, such as Dave & Busters, more live music venues, etc.

Ok, just curious, but what/where are these "hip districts"?

I know there's a wine/coffee bar or 3 that are called "hip" but whenever we go there it's usually full or 40something divorcees trying to pretend they're 20 and douchey middle-aged men.


Part of the problem, I think, is that a lot of these single guys live in Edmond, in residential developments designed for families. Obviously, they think they can't live in Deep Deuce, but they'd have a lot more fun if they did. I talked to a friend who knows a bunch of them last night, and she said the married ones love it here, and she suspects it's the single guys who might be grumbling. She also said it would be nice if we had a few more jazz clubs that cater to people with higher end incomes. And, I suspect they'd like more hip shopping, and more high end shopping. It's annoying, because we've supported stores like Chanel and Balliet's for years and years, probably because our dsiposable income is about the same as any other place, but retailers can't look past average income data.

You're right, many of the people I work with live in Edmond, as do I. I've looked at places in Deep Deuce, I've looked at all the new/refurbished place in and around the DT area. Frankly, they're waaaaay overpriced. At least with the properties in Edmond, I know that if&when I leave, I'll make a return on my investment. In the DT area, it's too much of a risk, especially when place like Maywood park are barely half full and Regency tower is trying out 2-for-1 deals to try and attract people.

Renting/buying in Edmond, or The Village, where you can get twice(sometimes 3 times) the space for half the price and be able to buy groceries less than a mile or two from your house makes more sense than sinking 2-3 hundred thousand on a loft or condo where you can't even host a party with your friends.

Bottom line is that there's almost nothing in this city to draw 20-30 somethings, specifically single ones.

Organized "youth" events are nice and all, but not everyone in this city wants to got to a "dating" event and have to sit through a sermon first, or listen to how wonderful Lifechurch is from all the potential dates who are only there as a witnessing program.

One element that has been missing from this discussion so far is the state of economy, and its influence on an individual's decision to stay in their current locale, or move on to greener pastures.

I saw a recent economic forecast that indicates a third of our metro areas in the US will have jobless rates in double digits in the fourth quarter of 2010, and that 16 metro areas will have jobless rates exceeding 15%. The pain is going to be really bad in California, which will have nine metro areas with jobless rates exceeding 15%. Michigan will have three, and Arizona, Florida, Illinois and Indiana one each. It's a forecast, so ultimately, we'll see.

But, it's highly unlikely we'll have anything remotely as ugly economically here, even if things were to deteriorate further. Thus, when I personally consider my options...I have a good job, and a good group friends, and hey, having family around counts for a lot too. Even though Oklahoma lacks a considerable amount of what would be on my wish list socially, politically, and in terms of overall amenities - it scores REALLY well on being able to pay my bills, live well, and hopefully get ahead in life.

I'm certainly open to moving to Dallas, Denver, Chicago, or Seattle, etc. - but only if I were to find a great professional opportunity that made it worth my while. What I don't want is to leave just for want of more restaurants, or a better view. Poverty with a nice view and better aesthetics will still be ... poverty, at the end of the day.

So I think to myself, can I be happy here in light of all that? Sure. And I don't think I'm the only one. (And...I also keep in mind there's a lot of positive energy here, and things ARE getting better).

Ok, just curious, but what/where are these "hip districts"?

I know there's a wine/coffee bar or 3 that are called "hip" but whenever we go there it's usually full or 40something divorcees trying to pretend they're 20 and douchey middle-aged men.

Downtown, Bricktown, Automobile Alley, HSC/State Capitol Area, Arts District, Film Row, Oklahoma River, SoSA, MidTown, Heritage Hills/Mesta Park, NW 23rd (Uptown), Paseo, Plaza District, Asian District, Jefferson Park/Edgemere, Western Ave.

When these area's have some mass transit connecting them to create better connectivity and walkability (not to mention the bike lanes being built and sidewalks being added due to 2007 GO BONDS), these areas are going to explode, and really take off. Most are their own little micro communities and are becoming hipper by the month.

that is an improvement because 5 years ago most nba players were saying, "where is okc?"

exactly!!!

this guy also said he and his buddies have to go to dallas a lot bc the clubs downtown are boring...man you guys must just not know how to party.

Downtown, Bricktown, Automobile Alley, HSC/State Capitol Area, Arts District, Film Row, Oklahoma River, SoSA, MidTown, Heritage Hills/Mesta Park, NW 23rd (Uptown), Paseo, Plaza District, Asian District, Jefferson Park/Edgemere, Western Ave.

When these area's have some mass transit connecting them to create better connectivity and walkability (not to mention the bike lanes being built and sidewalks being added due to 2007 GO BONDS), these areas are going to explode, and really take off. Most are their own little micro communities and are becoming hipper by the month.

Ok, this is a major part of the problem.

I know people like to proclaim that every place you listed is "hip", but guess what? They aren't.

Paseo is the only one that comes close, but you've got to deal with the aforementioned middle-aged people trying to recapture their youth. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't expect a huge youth turnout there.

You know what's Hip? Silver Stallion in Mustang, or 66 Bowl(especially when there's live music and visitors from other countries). These forcibly "hip" places, particularily in BT, "SoSa"(it's midtown, stop making up stupid names, this is a perfect example of forcibly hip), and the Arts District are not even remotely "hip".

If the staggering amount of areas you listed as "hip" truly were, then there simply wouldn't be a problem.

And while I'm sure the "Mass Transit" will cause these areas to grow a bit, I doubt it will "explode". Like I said earlier, nobody I work with, live near or hang out with gives a crap about the trolley system. It isn't going to make any of us move downtown, and will more than likely keep us away from downtown since it's going to take up a lane of traffic in an already congested area.

it seems that most of the problems with downtown are secondary to having a lower percentage of downtown housing compared with other cities of similar size. there is no retail, no grocer, it's impossible to eat anywhere after 9 save for hooters and taco bell.

i think that the 250k condo market is not where the growth will come from (plus many of theses serve as pied-a-terre with people not living there full-time). every rental complex recently opened has done well (deep deuce early on, park harvey, and most recently legacy). i live in sycamore square (say what you want i like it) and have noticed an appreciable difference in street activity and just seeing people out and about after 5 or on weekends since legacy has filled.

what do we need to do the get more complexes built in the dowtown area? i cant imagine how much more vibrant our core would be if we could get another 2k or more full-time downtown residents.

Ok, this is a major part of the problem.

I know people like to proclaim that every place you listed is "hip", but guess what? They aren't.

Paseo is the only one that comes close, but you've got to deal with the aforementioned middle-aged people trying to recapture their youth. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't expect a huge youth turnout there.

You know what's Hip? Silver Stallion in Mustang, or 66 Bowl(especially when there's live music and visitors from other countries). These forcibly "hip" places, particularily in BT, "SoSa"(it's midtown, stop making up stupid names, this is a perfect example of forcibly hip), and the Arts District are not even remotely "hip".

If the staggering amount of areas you listed as "hip" truly were, then there simply wouldn't be a problem.

And while I'm sure the "Mass Transit" will cause these areas to grow a bit, I doubt it will "explode". Like I said earlier, nobody I work with, live near or hang out with gives a crap about the trolley system. It isn't going to make any of us move downtown, and will more than likely keep us away from downtown since it's going to take up a lane of traffic in an already congested area.

How do you define hip? To me, hip is a bull**** word. If an establishment is enjoyable, the drinks are good, service is good, music is good and the architecture is pleasing to the eye, then that is where I am going to take out-of-town visitors.

How do you define hip? To me, hip is a bull**** word. If an establishment is enjoyable, the drinks are good, service is good, music is good and the architecture is pleasing to the eye, then that is where I am going to take out-of-town visitors.

Agreed, it is totally a bull**** word. I'm actually kinda pissed at myself for even using the word.

In the case of this thread I'm using it as a place that would attract people in my age group(20-30), on a recurring basis.

Ok, just curious, but what/where are these "hip districts"?

I know there's a wine/coffee bar or 3 that are called "hip" but whenever we go there it's usually full or 40something divorcees trying to pretend they're 20 and douchey middle-aged men.



You're right, many of the people I work with live in Edmond, as do I. I've looked at places in Deep Deuce, I've looked at all the new/refurbished place in and around the DT area. Frankly, they're waaaaay overpriced. At least with the properties in Edmond, I know that if&when I leave, I'll make a return on my investment. In the DT area, it's too much of a risk, especially when place like Maywood park are barely half full and Regency tower is trying out 2-for-1 deals to try and attract people.

Renting/buying in Edmond, or The Village, where you can get twice(sometimes 3 times) the space for half the price and be able to buy groceries less than a mile or two from your house makes more sense than sinking 2-3 hundred thousand on a loft or condo where you can't even host a party with your friends.

Bottom line is that there's almost nothing in this city to draw 20-30 somethings, specifically single ones.



Village? Edmond? Deep Deuce??!?!?!?! The "hip" sections of town are no where near these places. You couldn't pay me to live in the village. Edmond is DULL for a 20 something. Deep deuce and downtown are WAY over priced. The place to be for young 20 somethings is, as in a lot of big cities, is the "historic" inner city houses. From about N16th to about 36th, from classen all the way to about Portland. There are blocks and blocks of houses, duplexes, quads, etc. All built in the 20's and 30's. They have cool floor plans, many have been renovated very nicely. There are nice rentals and nice homes for purchase. We enjoy a sort of funky inner city environment. Biking downtown or to other inner city bars and ethnic restaurants is very easy. The local population is a very eclectic mix of sort of hip 20-30 somethings, imigrants, and college students. We have nice backyards, neighborhood parks (where it may not be legal to drink but I haven't seen it enforced), and plenty of short distance groceries. The rents are low, and the purchasing price is nice too. There are plenty of hip neighborhoods in this city but literally ALL OF THEM are south of 63rd st.

Now, I've lived in Dallas and you can't drink in the parks there. I've lived in Denver and you can't drink in the parks there - but they don't seem to have a problem with harder drugs being bought and sold in certain parks. I'm not sure where you feel like its OK to go drink in a park but you are giving Dallas way more credit than it deserves on that basis.

Really, it kind of sounds like you have uncovered a business opportunity here. Open a bar for 20-30's and make it clear that children aren't welcome. Actually, anyplace in town that is opened as a tavern fits this description because in OK, you can't have children in a bar area. In TX, you can't have children in a bar after 6PM. In CO they don't seem to have a problem with it at all.

Who's trashing it? Look, from what I've read here from people who have lived elsewhere is that they like OKC because it is cheap and "quiet." Well, if we are to be a city, there will be some parts of it that are bustling. If you don't like that, move to Deer Creek.

Allowing the city to become a more urban, grown-up version of itself will ensure it's still here and functioning in fifty years, because that is what draws talent employers seek.

I suppose someday we may look back and lament the loss of weedy parking lots, strip malls, neglected streets and sidewalks and endless highways going nowhere, no pedestrian activity, obesity and miles of fast-food restaurants. But I'm willing to take my chances.

I didn't mean this thread on the trashing. It is prevalent is quite a few others.
Those are the ones I was thinking of. But I think this post fairly qualifies as trashing OKC since weedy parking lots, obesity and the like is pretty negative and really not necessary unless you just want to insult the place.

Well, for one, it would be really nice if there was a place to go, not necessarily a bar or club, where we could hang out, watch a game, have a meal, just be ourselves, without having to worry about offending some family or group of children. It seems like every single thing opening up or reopening as an entertainment-type place is family-oriented. I've got no problem with family-oriented businesses, but it seems like it's a little out of hand here.

Example: we were at Coaches, a group of 7 or 8 watching a game, having fun, spending money. We were asked to keep it down or move outside because we were startling and disrupting a couple with an infant clear on the other side of the establishment. I think we left that time, I honestly can't remember because it has happened numerous times around town.

Sometimes it really feels like the way non-smokers will deliberately locate a group of smokers just so they can complain about them. I know that's not what's going on, it just feels that way most of the time. And in this city, the "family" always trumps the group of single people with nothing but disposable income to spend.



Have you heard the term, "Ugly American?" That behavior sounds exactly lwhat the Europeans complain about when we go over and act like jerks instead of being respectful to the locals and natives.

Man, jc, you really have some problems with people if thats your problem. Did your Dad beat you or something? Now, I've lived in Dallas and you can't drink in the parks there. I've lived in Denver and you can't drink in the parks there - but they don't seem to have a problem with harder drugs being bought and sold in certain parks. I'm not sure where you feel like its OK to go drink in a park but you are giving Dallas way more credit than it deserves on that basis.

Really, it kind of sounds like you have uncovered a business opportunity here. Open a bar for 20-30's and make it clear that children aren't welcome. Actually, anyplace in town that is opened as a tavern fits this description because in OK, you can't have children in a bar area. In TX, you can't have children in a bar after 6PM. In CO they don't seem to have a problem with it at all.

wtf? Did my dad beat me? what is that supposed to mean?

For one thing I never said we go to Dallas to drink in parks. We go to Dallas because the clubs are more fun and it's generally cheaper than BT in the long run, not counting gas to get down there.

A pure sports bar would be awesome. I can't figure out why nobody's opened one in BT. I know Daiquiri Zone was a sports bar, but the name and the sorta pretentiousness about it didn't really appeal.

Have you heard the term, "Ugly American?" That behavior sounds exactly lwhat the Europeans complain about when we go over and act like jerks instead of being respectful to the locals and natives.

Yes, of course you're right. A bunch of people, at a sports-themed establishment, watching a game on the bigscreen, cheering on the game and having fun is the problem.

I should have realized it earlier. The whole situation is the fault of the 20-30 somethings that live in OKC. We're obnoxious, ugly Americans who have absolutely no respect for anyone else.

No wonder we're staying here in droves.

I'm thinking truck in some hookers and blow.

Let's legalize prostitution first. With some guys, while they may be good looking studs, they want sex even more often than they can get it for free. Prostitution shouldn't be look upon as something for just mainly ugly or homely guys who can't get a date.

Ok, this is a major part of the problem.

I know people like to proclaim that every place you listed is "hip", but guess what? They aren't.

Paseo is the only one that comes close, but you've got to deal with the aforementioned middle-aged people trying to recapture their youth. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't expect a huge youth turnout there.

You know what's Hip? Silver Stallion in Mustang, or 66 Bowl(especially when there's live music and visitors from other countries). These forcibly "hip" places, particularily in BT, "SoSa"(it's midtown, stop making up stupid names, this is a perfect example of forcibly hip), and the Arts District are not even remotely "hip".

If the staggering amount of areas you listed as "hip" truly were, then there simply wouldn't be a problem.

And while I'm sure the "Mass Transit" will cause these areas to grow a bit, I doubt it will "explode". Like I said earlier, nobody I work with, live near or hang out with gives a crap about the trolley system. It isn't going to make any of us move downtown, and will more than likely keep us away from downtown since it's going to take up a lane of traffic in an already congested area.


Please tell me listing the Stallion was tounge and cheek.

jc,

What's with the victim act? So far, you have blamed your unhappiness in OKC on watered down beer, "middle aged people trying to recapture their youth", "40 something divorcees pretending they're 20", "douchey middle aged men", and outdated laws that prevent you from "getting your drink on" in the park. Geez, man.

Since you and your friends are apparently experts on what's "hip", why don't you all get together and solve the problem yourselves rather than waiting for someone on this board to do it for you.

I do totally agree with him in terms of the "family friendly" nature of many establishments in the city. There's something to be said for knowing that at an establishment such as a sports bar and grill, your 2 year old is the exception and not the target of the establishment. If you want a quiet family dinner, you probably shouldn't take them to a sports grill on game night...If I go to coach's to watch a game, I should be able to be loud, I mean isn't that what watching a game is all about??!?!

However, once again, the inner city north, has more to offer for the type of customer that I am, and from the sound of it, JC is as well. Check out Iguana on Taco Tuesdays, good cheap food, good cheap beer, and the conversations can be as loud as you want them to be....Also, if you haven't been already, you should try out the 51st St Speakeasy on a week night. You can have a good dinner there, watch a game, have a smoke, whatever you want, and not a kid in sight!

But back on topic, the city is lacking a real urban area. But, from what I've always seen, the people that will inhabit that kind of an area are here. It would just be nice to see them all move to a given area. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping for MORE RENTALS in the inner city north, midtown, and downtown areas. Hip is whatever you want it to be, but no matter what, it starts with having permanent residents under the age of 40 in the neighborhood.

I hope the 66 bowl that he mentioned is not the same one that I just googled. The one I saw will be hosting the 1950's singing sensation Wanda Jackson on November 21st. I am one of those "douchey middle aged men" and even I don't think she's hip.

jc,

What's with the victim act? So far, you have blamed your unhappiness in OKC on watered down beer, "middle aged people trying to recapture their youth", "40 something divorcees pretending they're 20", "douchey middle aged men", and outdated laws that prevent you from "getting your drink on" in the park. Geez, man.

I'm not unhappy, I'm giving reasons why people my age don't think this city is fun.

I find it facinating that you people are focusing on the "getting your drink on" in the park. It was one of a number of OK liquor laws that I mentioned. I never said anything about "getting my drink on", I simply said that I, and others, have been ticketed by police for having a beer with friends at a park cookout. I didn't realized that the morality police here at okctalk.com would define that at "getting your drink on".



Since you and your friends are apparently experts on what's "hip", why don't you all get together and solve the problem yourselves rather than waiting for someone on this board to do it for you.

We all are solving the problem. Most choose to leave the city/state. From the attitudes of many here, that is looking more and more preferable.


Check out Iguana on Taco Tuesdays, good cheap food, good cheap beer, and the conversations can be as loud as you want them to be....Also, if you haven't been already, you should try out the 51st St Speakeasy on a week night. You can have a good dinner there, watch a game, have a smoke, whatever you want, and not a kid in sight!


Thanks! I'll check out Iquana.

We've been to Speakeasy a few times, but it was usually on Fridays. At work we usually go out as a group Wednesday nights in addition to the weekends, I'll put that into the suggestion pot!

No wonder we're staying here in droves.

I know that was meant to be sarcastic.... BUT we actually ARE staying in droves.

Actually it is the same. Bowl 66 has been a counter culture staple in OKC for years. It used to have a ton of punk, hardcore, and rockabilly bands throughout the 90's and 00's and still has live bands today. Rock 'n' Bowl was an almost church like event for me in my late teen years (meaning that I rarely missed it).

Also, Wanda Jackson, has been performing a lot lately and is VERY in vogue at the moment. She was recently inducted in to the Rock and Roll hall of fame, and modern Rockabilly folks love her stuff. Oklahoma City's underculture has always had a pretty big Rockabilly scene and many of them frequent the Blue Note and 66 bowl.

jc,

As far as this "morality police" officer is concerned you can drink anything you want anywhere you want. The only reason I mentioned drinking in the park is because you did. It's just an odd observation because I've never heard that as one of the reasons someone is not satisfied with their community.

If leaving the city/state is what solves the problem for you, then by all means do so. However, I tend to take a more proactive approach to problem solving rather than to just give up and move to "greener pastures". In my opinion, you and your friends are the real problem here. Not because you guys feel like you don't fit into the community, but because you see a need for something, and aren't willing to do anything about it. Instead, you would rather move away to a place where someone with more initiative has already done the work for you. Name whatever city you want and whatever amenity you believe they have. Those amenities did not come naturally. They happened because someone stepped up and made them a reality. If we're just losing a bunch of followers to these other cities, I say let them go. They won't be the ones responsible for leading in the future anyway.

I hope the 66 bowl that he mentioned is not the same one that I just googled. The one I saw will be hosting the 1950's singing sensation Wanda Jackson on November 21st. I am one of those "douchey middle aged men" and even I don't think she's hip.


Actually it is the same. Bowl 66 has been a counter culture staple in OKC for years. It used to have a ton of punk, hardcore, and rockabilly bands throughout the 90's and 00's and still has live bands today. Rock 'n' Bowl was an almost church like event for me in my late teen years (meaning that I rarely missed it).

Also, Wanda Jackson, has been performing a lot lately and is VERY in vogue at the moment. She was recently inducted in to the Rock and Roll hall of fame, and modern Rockabilly folks love her stuff. Oklahoma City's underculture has always had a pretty big Rockabilly scene and many of them frequent the Blue Note and 66 bowl.

What Ebah said.

66 Bowl is very underrated. People seriously travel here from all over the globe just to go there. It's a shame that the City promotes places like Red Pin instead.

and Mack, no offense, but I think you just proved my point.

how?

By saying to get off your ass or quit complaining?

JC,
A streetcar wont eleminate a lane of traffic. It will be on rails on the far right lane. Cars can use that lane when there is no streetcar. Also Daiquiri Zone is no longer. Another new sports bar opened in its place called Brix.

I do somewhat agree with you that our "hip" places arent all that hip. Western is ok, but it could stand to have better establishments and have them closer together such as Cherry St in Tulsa. And I am kind of surprised that there havent been a few more adventerous young bar/restaurant entrepreneurs in this city. However, things have picked up in the last year or two.
As far as a solution, or more of a prediction: Midtown is the future. There is so much oppurtunity in Midtown its ridiculous. There are vacant lots and older empty buildings that are begging to be redeveloped. If we can just get A) some people to build more housing B) make sure current property owners dont sit and do nothing with their property ala bricktown and C) make sure the street car covers the area fairly well. Everytime I drive through Midtown I just picture what it should be like. Dense, vibrant, urban, popular and most importantly fun.

I'm not unhappy, I'm giving reasons why people my age don't think this city is fun.

Okay, but that can always be changed. City leadership obviously wants young professionals in the city, and Oklahoma City does have the market to support the type of entertainment you are looking for.


We all are solving the problem. Most choose to leave the city/state. From the attitudes of many here, that is looking more and more preferable.


When most choose to leave the city/state, it kills the market. So the herd that continues its move to the Big D in hindsight does a disservice to OKC by killing the market. I understand why they left, so now the only question is... who is going to step up to make a difference in OKC?

Okay, but that can always be changed. City leadership obviously wants young professionals in the city, and Oklahoma City does have the market to support the type of entertainment you are looking for.



When most choose to leave the city/state, it kills the market. So the herd that continues its move to the Big D in hindsight does a disservice to OKC by killing the market. I understand why they left, so now the only question is... who is going to step up to make a difference in OKC?

I understand that it has the market, and I understand that the real solution isn't just up and moving. My problem is that OKC sometimes feels very anti-youngAdult.

That's what I was referring to about the general feeling I get from this forum. That it's our fault. The young professionals that this city wants to draw in work insane numbers of hours. We would LOVE to open up a club or a bar or some sort of establishment that caters to our demographic. The problem is that we're too busy working. We're just starting to establish our careers. The City wants to draw us in and is seemingly doing nothing to accomplish that. The only solution provided to us is a doom-and-gloom promise of "Pass MAPS3 or else" as far as creating an atmosphere for us, with a caveat of recognizing that it won't happen before we're to old to care about it anymore.

The only real solution I can come up with is for the City Leadership to listen to the young professionals in this city instead of listening to 40-something marketing consultants who use flowcharts, google searches and powerpoint presentations to determine what's "hip".

Yes, of course you're right. A bunch of people, at a sports-themed establishment, watching a game on the bigscreen, cheering on the game and having fun is the problem.

I should have realized it earlier. The whole situation is the fault of the 20-30 somethings that live in OKC. We're obnoxious, ugly Americans who have absolutely no respect for anyone else.

No wonder we're staying here in droves.

Look, you're the one who says it has happened repeatedly. "Numerous times around town." Boorish behavior is what gets you asked to leave. And if it has happened "numerous times" at different establishements, perhaps you might want to think about whether you know how to behave in public.

I've been with and around plenty of loud mouthed drunks and never once has anyone ever been asked to leave or, for that matter, to keep it down. So what you said is either BS, or you are acting way outside the lines of what is remotely appropriate public behavior. I'm wondering if it happened once when you were being ridiculous and rather than examining your own behavior, you are now trying to make OKC out to be the bad guy. I don't know, but I have to wonder.

Look, I don't like to go to nice places and have to deal with screaming kids or ones running around like wild Indians. When my own kids were little, we saved up for a nice dinner and it used to really irk me when thoughtless parents would bring kids to ruin a nice experience for other diners. I "get" that not everyone wants to be around families, all the time. And I also "get" that some families don't use good judgement. But what you are saying is that YOU have been asked to leave at places where you are just spending your own money and having "fun." I think that tells us what is actually happening.

jc4455... you really need to pick up a Gazette, Look at OKC, or SOMETHING and involve yourself in the the great variety of things that ARE happening.

I can promise there aren't that many people that work the 'insane hours' I do... and I have all kinds of fun... and I am a 'young adult'.... 29 still counts for that right... or do i need to wear A&F, Hollister, Affliction, or Ed Hardy shirts *gag*??

PennyQuilts... I wondered the same things you mentioned in you last post... I'm picturing obscenities flying left and right.

I can promise there aren't that many people that work the 'insane hours' I do... and I have all kinds of fun... and I am a 'young adult'.... 29 still counts for that right... or do i need to wear A&F, Hollister, Affliction, or Ed Hardy shirts *gag*??

umm, no, you don't need to wear a special uniform or anything.

I didn't say we work too much to have fun, I said we work too much to try and open up a club or bar or whatever else was suggested as a "solution" to the problem.

Oh man, dont even get me started on how the shopping here for young men is lacking that could be my own thread as long as this one is getting....

Oh man, dont even get me started on how the shopping here for young men is lacking that could be my own thread as long as this one is getting....

lol!
you could dedicate a whole forum to the lack of shopping here for young women.

jc4455... PennyQuilts... I wondered the same things you mentioned in you last post... I'm picturing obscenities flying left and right.

I totally agree. After reading thru jc's posts it really sounds like that's whats going on if he's been kicked out of several places.

Overall, I really don't see what his opposition to MAPS3 has to do with a lack of 20-something hangouts where he and his buddies can freely scream out the F-bomb or brew beer and cook brats in the park. One has nothing to do with the other except that approving a MAPS3 type of program should help attract new housing projects and new residents downtown. More residents downtown will mean more privately owned businesses and more places he can go and feel comfortable. Picture MAPS3 a reality and watch the west side of downtown turn into kind of a Deep Ellum type area.

I totally agree. After reading thru jc's posts it really sounds like that's whats going on if he's been kicked out of several places.

Overall, I really don't see what his opposition to MAPS3 has to do with a lack of 20-something hangouts where he and his buddies can freely scream out the F-bomb or brew beer and cook brats in the park. One has nothing to do with the other except that approving a MAPS3 type of program should help attract new housing projects and new residents downtown. More residents downtown will mean more privately owned businesses and more places he can go and feel comfortable. Picture MAPS3 a reality and watch the west side of downtown turn into kind of a Deep Ellum type area.

Really?

I've never been kicked out of anywhere in this city. We aren't sucking back drinks and hurling F-bombs.

This is exactly what I mean by anti-youth. We were asked to quiet down in a Sports bar while watching a SPORT on tv because we were waking up the infant of the morons that brought it to a place that's going to be loud on a game day. So we decided to leave. Suddenly this forum decides I'm hurling F-bombs and getting kicked out of places all over the city.

I also never said I was opposed to MAPS3. I'm opposed to the use of MAPS3 as a tool for people to say "Vote YES or you'll be sorry!!" BS that I've seen all over this forum. I'm opposed to people saying that NOTHING will be done to attract/keep my demographic here unless we vote Yes for MAPS3.

jc,

Above you said that, "The City wants to draw us in and is seemingly doing nothing to accomplish that." What would you suggest the city should do to draw you in?

If you have ideas that would make the city better we would all like to hear them. As a group I think we would appreciate hearing any ideas that would benefit the city. Our concern for the city is why we are all here in the first place. My frustration with this thread however, is that it seems like a bunch of random complaints with no solutions offered. There are ways around the 60 year old with the "flowchart", but you have to have some ideas to get the momentum started.

Ok, this is a major part of the problem.

I know people like to proclaim that every place you listed is "hip", but guess what? They aren't.

Paseo is the only one that comes close, but you've got to deal with the aforementioned middle-aged people trying to recapture their youth. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, but don't expect a huge youth turnout there.

You know what's Hip? Silver Stallion in Mustang, or 66 Bowl(especially when there's live music and visitors from other countries). These forcibly "hip" places, particularily in BT, "SoSa"(it's midtown, stop making up stupid names, this is a perfect example of forcibly hip), and the Arts District are not even remotely "hip".

If the staggering amount of areas you listed as "hip" truly were, then there simply wouldn't be a problem.

And while I'm sure the "Mass Transit" will cause these areas to grow a bit, I doubt it will "explode". Like I said earlier, nobody I work with, live near or hang out with gives a crap about the trolley system. It isn't going to make any of us move downtown, and will more than likely keep us away from downtown since it's going to take up a lane of traffic in an already congested area.

Do you realize that Mass Transit is proven to reduce traffic congestion? That's the point of it. It doesn't increase traffic. It gives a reason NOT to have to drive to heavy traffic areas, but to park or walk from elsewhere and then take the mass transit into congested areas.


wtf? Did my dad beat me? what is that supposed to mean?

For one thing I never said we go to Dallas to drink in parks. We go to Dallas because the clubs are more fun and it's generally cheaper than BT in the long run, not counting gas to get down there.

A pure sports bar would be awesome. I can't figure out why nobody's opened one in BT. I know Daiquiri Zone was a sports bar, but the name and the sorta pretentiousness about it didn't really appeal.

Have you tried Brix that replaced Daiquiri Zone?

[QUOTE=jc4455;266638]Example: we were at Coaches, a group of 7 or 8 watching a game, having fun, spending money. We were asked to keep it down or move outside because we were startling and disrupting a couple with an infant clear on the other side of the establishment. I think we left that time, I honestly can't remember because it has happened numerous times around town. QUOTE]

Sorry if I misunderstood, but from what you wrote above, you stated you "can't remember because it has happened numerous times around town." Sounds like you were saying you get "kicked out."

So, if the point is that you are in a sports bar being loud and are asked to quiet down, then go to a different sports bar. I used to go to one in Denver for the OU Club of Denver and yelled until I got hoarse. However, that is for a designated gathering. If a bunch of us went any other night, they might not want us being that loud.

Years ago there was a place in Dallas called Boley and Wilsons. It was a place to go on the night before the OU-TX game because the place was half OU fans and half Texas fans and while the Boley and Wilson band played raunchy music and everyone got drunk, the fans yelled insults at each other in good nature. I went there on another occasion and a couple of tables started getting loud about a baseball game on the TV and were quieted down by the manager.

Without being there and seeing your group its hard to say what happened but in OK, you can't have a child in a bar. If you were in a sports bar restaurant, then yeah, you shouldn't be so loud.

Really?

I've never been kicked out of anywhere in this city. We aren't sucking back drinks and hurling F-bombs.

This is exactly what I mean by anti-youth. We were asked to quiet down in a Sports bar while watching a SPORT on tv because we were waking up the infant of the morons that brought it to a place that's going to be loud on a game day. So we decided to leave. Suddenly this forum decides I'm hurling F-bombs and getting kicked out of places all over the city.

I also never said I was opposed to MAPS3. I'm opposed to the use of MAPS3 as a tool for people to say "Vote YES or you'll be sorry!!" BS that I've seen all over this forum. I'm opposed to people saying that NOTHING will be done to attract/keep my demographic here unless we vote Yes for MAPS3.

This has nothing to be do with being anti youth. It has everything to do with how you originally presented the scenario. You said you were asked to be quieter and also asked to go outside so you just left - and that it had happened in "numerous" other places. If true, that behavior speaks for itself and whether you are twenty year old college kid or a boorish middle aged matron doesn't matter. You don't get asked to settle down or go outside unless you are breaking the norms of the establishment. And if you were asked to leave a SPORTS BAR, I can't imagine you and your friends were being anything but obnoxious. You really have to work hard to be asked to calm down at a sports bar. Which one was it? Well, back to your original posting - which ones were they?

This has nothing to be do with being anti youth. It has everything to do with how you originally presented the scenario. You said you were asked to be quieter and also asked to go outside so you just left - and that it had happened in "numerous" other places. If true, that behavior speaks for itself and whether you are twenty year old college kid or a boorish middle aged matron doesn't matter. You don't get asked to settle down or go outside unless you are breaking the norms of the establishment. And if you were asked to leave a SPORTS BAR, I can't imagine you and your friends were being anything but obnoxious. You really have to work hard to be asked to calm down at a sports bar. Which one was it? Well, back to your original posting - which ones were they?

You're so much better than I am at stating my thoughts. I'll just turn them over to you.

jc4455... you really need to pick up a Gazette, Look at OKC, or SOMETHING and involve yourself in the the great variety of things that ARE happening.

I can promise there aren't that many people that work the 'insane hours' I do... and I have all kinds of fun... and I am a 'young adult'.... 29 still counts for that right... or do i need to wear A&F, Hollister, Affliction, or Ed Hardy shirts *gag*??

PennyQuilts... I wondered the same things you mentioned in you last post... I'm picturing obscenities flying left and right.

Ditto. I was the Executive Director of AEP (the young professionals group here in town), we had 600+ people on our email list, etc. and 200-300 that would show up for events. None of them seemed to have this problem and as a YP living/working/owning property in the MidTown area, I sure don't buy it. Not to mention for the hundreds of people I network with in the inner city on a regular basis. Maybe it's too hard to see all the way up there in Edmond. And personally, I've never seen the City promote Red Pin nor do I think it is their job to promote clubs or open up "hip" clubs and businesses. That's the private markets job. These things come in "hipper" larger cities because of DENSITY and a larger population. Chicken and Egg and just becomes a snowball the more population you get. As others stated, if it's that big of a problem you can either move, or be a solution to the problem and not just a complainer.:fighting4

Allow to me to take a different tack...

I have not lived in OKC for a long time, but I wonder if OKC has developed a social culture for young people in their 20s and 30s to meet outside of a bar or a restaurant. Perhaps they have, but if not, perhaps my experience in St. Louis is illusrative of a cosmopolitan city.

In St. Louis, every cultural and charitable organization has a "Young Friends" group specifically for people in their 20s and 30s. YF of the Zoo, YF of the Art Museum, YF of Jazz St. Louis, YF of COCA (Center of Contemporary Arts)and on and on. There are - no exaggeration - 30 or 40 such groups. These groups all have regular inexpensive parties, maybe $10 or $20 or $30 specifically designed for networking and community building. I am not exaggerating when I say that on any given Wednesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday night in the Spring, Summer and Fall, something social is going on. Sure there is eating and drinking, of course, but you would not believe the social, and importantly, business connections that are made at these parties. There is a whole huge cadre of young, socially aware, upwardly mobile people that rotate through all these events. To the point that, if you want to develop friendships and connections in St. Louis, you can go out and know that you will find friends on any given night.

Sure, I go to plenty of bars, concerts, plays, ethnic restaurants, but I always also have this option. Almost any night someone will call me and say "Are you going to ZooTini, (or COCAcabana or Party In the Park in Clayton...)"

There is even a "Young Friends Collaborative" made up of board members of all these groups, that have their own parties.

In addition, every neighborhood in St. Louis has music festivals or arts festivals or bar crawls all the way through the warmer months. And there are a thousand other young-oriented networking groups like Fuel, River City Professionals, St. Louis Ambassadors.

My point is, much like a small-town atmosphere in a big city, these types of events serve to bind young people to their community and make them feel really involved. You want to go to these parties and if you are tired and stay home, you feel like you missed something because the next day, the e-mails and texts will be flying about what a good time it was. Perhaps most importantly, these groups are also training the new generation of civic philanthropic leadership.

Again, I don't know if OKC has this kind of culture, but if it doesn't, it is missing out.


I think that's a great idea. Organizations like that would make it easy for young people to meet people in their age bracket with similar interests. It's really easy to meet people when you are in college. Not so easy once you get out of college.

You're so much better than I am at stating my thoughts. I'll just turn them over to you.

You know better than that.

I'm just glad to see Junior showing an interest in the community. It is nice to see young ones being involved and I hope he sticks around. He is not alone in wanting some fun places.

jc4455... you really need to pick up a Gazette, Look at OKC, or SOMETHING and involve yourself in the the great variety of things that ARE happening.

I can promise there aren't that many people that work the 'insane hours' I do... and I have all kinds of fun... and I am a 'young adult'.... 29 still counts for that right... or do i need to wear A&F, Hollister, Affliction, or Ed Hardy shirts *gag*??

PennyQuilts... I wondered the same things you mentioned in you last post... I'm picturing obscenities flying left and right.


I think that's a great idea. Organizations like that would make it easy for young people to meet people in their age bracket with similar interests. It's really easy to meet people when you are in college. Not so easy once you get out of college.

Plenty of these groups. I used to lead 1 and am a board member on another one. See post #58 on page 3.

You know better than that.

I'm just glad to see Junior showing an interest in the community. It is nice to see young ones being involved and I hope he sticks around. He is not alone in wanting some fun places.

Its just unfortunate that he feels he can't support a series of programs designed to improve this city and make it a more desireable place to live because he and his friends don't like the bars. He's shooting himself in the foot.

Okay, I'm going to read the rest of Page 4 later but in the mean time I have something to say!

I thought this thread was entitled "NBA Players Think OKC is Boring...boo hoo"?! Mods, can you change it to "jc4455 Thinks OKC is a Piece of Crap Wanna Be Big City"? It'd be much appreciated...

jc--and no, you're not Jesus Christ--you talk up Dallas so much and how much more awesome it is than OKC. I do agree with you on that because it serves a metro population of 6.3 million and therefore has to be very diversified when it comes to the amenities provided for the vast array of lifestyles and ethnic groups that live there. On the other hand you bring up just a few points that have nothing to do with nothing other than whining like a little b***h.

Point #1 - You and your 'friends' (are these your fingers?) don't care about a trolley system because it would take up a lane of traffic??? Ever been down on McKinney Street just north and west of downtown Dallas?!? It has a circular street car system. Oh smack, I bet you don't go down there and hang out in that "hip" district because one little car comes along every five minutes and disrupts traffic in that area and before you know it it creates a butterfly effect that throws off all the traffic in the DFW metroplex!

Point #2 - Your beer thing. Our beer is 3.5, yes. 6 point beer is technically 5.2. If you know somebody close to you that has worked at a beer distributor, they'll pretty much inform you of that. I could drink more beer up in Missouri (certified 5.2 beer) than I could down here, but isn't that kinda bassackward?? Do you honestly believe that a 1.7 difference is really gonna do it for you? Go to Google and look up some drinking games or try drinking some heavy liquor before you get intimate with your next 3.2 beer! You and your fingers (friends) can have a party with that can, or bottle. Oh and also, there's places called liquor stores here--granted they're not open past 9pm or on Sunday's, which I agree is kinda stupid--that stock all kinds of beer that has a much higher alcoholic percentage. Maybe that's up your alley. Granted it's not refrigerated (sub-point) but buy another refrigerator yourself, being I've read about all of your disposable income.

Point #3 - Your complaints of 30+ douchebags reclaiming their youth. They're not reclaiming their youth, they're living their lives as you 20-30 somethings are able to live them here now because of the amenities that are available (although few in your book) that weren't available when they were in that age group.

Point #4 - Clubs. Please tell me how much better Dallas clubs are?? I went down there for a bachelor party. Yes, primarily because it was Dallas, but secondarily because the groom was living in San Angelo and it was less traveling for him & obviously more entertaining than S.A. We went to clubs--dance clubs, strip clubs, and let me say w o w (not as in wow oh wow this is big time) but w o w as in that's pretty much exactly like OKC--minus the stripclub dress code for on stage performers, lol. The main club we went to was Club Purgatory. So wow, it was cool that I got some exercise because it's 4 levels and I took a lot of stairs but was it suppose to impress me? It looked better on its website than it did in person--granted that's what Photoshop can do for you! And of course with a bigger city and a higher cost of living comes more expensive products. Who wants to dish out $4 more for 1.7% more alcohol in the same quantity?? Not me. You been to one club, you've seen them all--unless of course, you're VIP like yourself.

Somebody pointed out that the only way this state/city will change is to get the old out and the new, more "hip", in. They said "bring the sinners". I say, put the "sinners" in office! That seems to be the only way this place will go from being conservative to being a jewel in the Midwest/South that WILL get there with that positive attraction of the city that you obviously don't have now. Unfortunately for you and those of us older than you, we won't get to see it because the progression of a MAPS 3 and the implementation of future developments it spurns will take years and years to come to fruition. But at least we can provide that for other future 20-30 somethings and give them something that we missed out on. I WANT to see it go through and see it be built. If you don't, get a darn U-Haul and move on!

Yeah, I've said all I care to say to him. Same to the NBA'ers who alledgedly are complaining. Go on a bender when you are on the road. Relax when you're home.

Sheesh, people sure get hostile whenever someone says they don't think there's a lot to do.

That's why we spend so much time being hostile to each other on the computer every day!

Not taking sides, but as a former DJ in Minneapolis the club scene here is pretty lame. I see where JC is coming from. I mean - Citywalk gets the best dance club for about 4 years in a row??

My 2 cents.

Oh, yeah? Well, Jack-in-the-Box is coming to Moore, so there!

Not taking sides, but as a former DJ in Minneapolis the club scene here is pretty lame. I see where JC is coming from. I mean - Citywalk gets the best dance club for about 4 years in a row??

My 2 cents.

The problem is, how do you improve that? What kinds of entrepreneurs create clubs? If ours are lame, then might there not be money in new ones?

I personally was just getting some hair off my chest (rather putting some on). I'm all smiles now. Just thought I'd throw a little poison back jc's way since he's venting it on the majority of us that appreciate our city and there are too many people on here that would rather not be to the point to make a point. All is well here. And I'm sure jc is a rather pleasant guy that sometimes just gets a little drunk in public and acts like a fool. We've all done it--although repeatedly, that's another story. I will admit that sometimes I appear to be an a$$ on here but I honestly believe it was warranted and not a squabble over something like college football teams. Don't put down the OKC is all I'm sayin. If you want to, go to tulsatalk or one of those national websites like skyscrapercity.com and spit your venom there...

One of the inherent problems with "hip" is it is transitory. What is in now is out tomorrow.

1. My son is going to be the first college graduate in our family and wants to be a rocket scientist and I am so excited about that and want to make sure that he goes to a good college and studies hard and saves his money and it is just going to be so cool and I am so proud of him.

2. My son is a total **** and always will be because he is lazy and stupid and fat and I will probably be supporting him until I am in my grave.

The difference in the messages of the ones who love OKC and want it to succeed and improve vs. the ones who just bitch.

I'm just saying.

Man, PennyQuilts, I was gettin' ready to tell you that that is so f'in (fricken) cool that your son is going to be a legit rocket scientist and that he probably because of that industry would have to live in Houston or Florida, obviously....

But now I'm just laughing because you have a valid point!