I'm not arguing strongly against this renovation but there is an important question to consider: Has any building been re-skinned in an effort to 'modernize' the appearane that wasn't eventually regretted?

How many times have we had the "what were they thinking" discussion here? That only comes with the benefit of time. At the moment -- like now -- this always seems like a good idea. But as far as I know, it never, ever stands the test of time.

So, the question is: Why would we go down this path again?

"Because this time it will be different, because i know how others did it wrong" - Said everyone who has every proposed this after the first attempt

Once again OKC continues to erase its past as it pursues its ultimate goal of being the city without a history.

Once again OKC continues to erase its past as it pursues its ultimate goal of being the city without a history.

this is exactly my feel as well... yes, this building could use some much needed upgrades, especially for efficiency, but i thought it was going to look great in our skyline with the new cap, and some cleaning... it didn't need a complete re-skin so that it doesn't stick out as noticeable at all in the skyline

Also, I might be mistaken but didn't the design of this tower have some kind of connection to the old World Trade Center towers? Same designer, or was it just heavily influenced by them? For some reason I have this recollection of this, but it may have just been my own mind making the tie.

That's the Williams Center in Tulsa, I believe.

The lobby of the building has always felt super empty. I don't even really want to imagine what it would feel like extended out. I think a better idea would be to have a skinny hotel or office building built on one of the corners, that kind of semi wraps around the base of the tower.

Also, I might be mistaken but didn't the design of this tower have some kind of connection to the old World Trade Center towers? Same designer, or was it just heavily influenced by them? For some reason I have this recollection of this, but it may have just been my own mind making the tie.

The BOK Tower in Tulsa and the WTC were designed by the same architect, Minoru Yamasaki.

The building reflects International style of architecture which is considered classic by many.

I stronly disagree that SandRidge, Valliance Bank and Union Bank buildings are also good examples. SandRidge is more Brutalism and the other two are big stretches.

So, this proposed renovation would leave OKC without a tall International building, and that would be a shame as most other cities really embrace their Internalional architecture.

That's the Williams Center in Tulsa, I believe.


The BOK Tower in Tulsa and the WTC were designed by the same architect, Minoru Yamasaki.


Thanks yall!

Keep in mind, the renderings show a completely new exterior, including removing the arches at the top and bottom as well as the contrasting vertical elements that break up the dark colored glass.

It's basically changing every single elment of the exterior.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst053119c.jpg

Keep in mind, the renderings show a completely new exterior, including removing the arches at the top and bottom as well as the contrasting vertical elements that break up the dark colored glass.

It's basically changing every single elment of the exterior.

to replace with an exterior that has no real design features and is just glass.... yes it looks more modern... but it has not architectural style like this building does.

Keep in mind, the renderings show a completely new exterior, including removing the arches at the top and bottom as well as the contrasting vertical elements that break up the dark colored glass.

It's basically changing every single elment of the exterior.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst053119c.jpg

That is a good point, I was thinking it was just new glass. That is a shame to lose those elements as they could look really good if they were cleaned up.

The architect was Thomas E. Stanley who designed a ton of reknowned International style buildings, including the First National Bank building in Dallas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_E._Stanley

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/firstnationaldallas1.jpg

That is a good point, I was thinking it was just new glass. That is a shame to lose those elements as they could look really good if they were cleaned up.

I would argue Sandridge is enough international/brutalist style for OKC. At first I thought what if this is a total braniff situation but after sleeping on it. I’m more convinced this is the right move

Some of us don’t like change. I count myself as one. To put this building in league with first national or even sandrige is an egregious overstep.

Its funny how people complained about the building being in despair & that it needed to be upgraded & it was the ugliest building in the skyline. Then when someone actually comes along & does it right, people still complain. One thing I learned in business processes is that you can't make everyone happy, that is why you do what you need to do & move on, people will get over it. I for one am happy with every aspect of the new design.

Its funny how people complained about the building being in despair & that it needed to be upgraded & it was the ugliest building in the skyline. Then when someone actually comes along & does it right, people still complain. One thing I learned in business processes is that you can't make everyone happy, that is why you do what you need to do & move on, people will get over it. I for one am happy with every aspect of the new design.

Fixing something and completely covering up the outside are 2 entirely different things.

Our skyline is already diminished by Devon and BOK blending together and mirroring the sky. If this ends up also blending in and losing distinct characteristics, we might as well just commit to being a city that only allows glass skyscrapers with no character. It might look cool if every building had this style by day, and crazy light displays by night. But when you’re dealing with so few skyscrapers, you can’t make 3 of the most prominent ones all look the same.

I’m all in favor of replacing the old glass, but completely reworking the exterior like this just seems like a decision that will be regretted in a few decades.

Keep in mind, the renderings show a completely new exterior, including removing the arches at the top and bottom as well as the contrasting vertical elements that break up the dark colored glass.

Are we sure about that? The rendering of the entire building definitely looks that way, but the rendering of the street level changes seem to show the vertical elements still intact. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong or maybe the street level rendering was done before or separately from the re-skinning renderings. They look inconsistent to me, either way...

Keep in mind these are just conceptual drawings by Bockus Payne. I would not get hung up on this, the glass will look totally different in real life...

Are we sure about that? The rendering of the entire building definitely looks that way, but the rendering of the street level changes seem to show the vertical elements still intact. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong or maybe the street level rendering was done before or separately from the re-skinning renderings. They look inconsistent to me, either way...

That's a good point, the ribs are still clearly there in this more detailed close-up:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst053019ba.jpg

It would be nice to have a higher quality rendering of the full redesign.

Are they still gonna be able to light up a cross at Christmas time?

That should be the determining factor on if the design review committee passes this or not.

Even if the vertical fins are kept, they'll be virtually invisible due to the lack of contrast with the glass.

And of course, the tie-ins to the arches at the top and bottom will be gone, too.

Just took this one:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst053019z.jpg

Just took this one:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst053019z.jpg

nm

I like the look and it will only be better in real life with the logos and crown on top. But why can’t we get some halfway decent renderings of this project?

Do we know if the new crown will totally cover up the current mechanical's on the roof? If so, appears the building we gain in some height too.

Do we know if the new crown will totally cover up the current mechanical's on the roof? If so, appears the building we gain in some height too.

I believe it will essentially add the look of one extra floor.

I personally would love the paint and windows to look like the John Hancock Center in Chicago, but that's not Bancfirst's colors so we get a blue tower.

We should be thankful Paycom didn't buy it and we get an obnoxious green tower or Loves bought it and we get a yellow tower.

Seriously even during Christmas Paycom can't put up something else besides green on their corporate office. We get it your company's logo is green.

I personally would love the paint and windows to look like the John Hancock Center in Chicago, but that's not Bancfirst's colors so we get a blue tower.

We should be thankful Paycom didn't buy it and we get an obnoxious green tower or Loves bought it and we get a yellow tower.

Seriously even during Christmas Paycom can't put up something else besides green on their corporate office. We get it your company's logo is green.

doesn't dallas have a tower that lights up in green everything? and it doesn't seem that bad.

I think it would be neat if BancFirst could have a rooftop observation deck like Top of the Rock in NYC.

I think it would be neat if BancFirst could have a rooftop observation deck like Top of the Rock in NYC.

Ever been to the Petroleum Club? Not the same, I get it, but near enough.

Here is one more render.

This one makes it looks less like a radical change.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst0531c.jpg

Here is one more render.

This one makes it looks less like a radical change.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst0531c.jpg

Where are you finding all these renderings?

I'm not arguing strongly against this renovation but there is an important question to consider: Has any building been re-skinned in an effort to 'modernize' the appearane that wasn't eventually regretted?

How many times have we had the "what were they thinking" discussion here? That only comes with the benefit of time. At the moment -- like now -- this always seems like a good idea. But as far as I know, it never, ever stands the test of time.

So, the question is: Why would we go down this path again?

Pete, I disagree with this.

What you speak of are situations where we covered buildings in 'modern' facade, the "gold" building a perfect example. However here with Liberty Tower, we are changing the facade installing better glass.

I dont think there will be a regret, as it will still have the same "look" of International - just will be blue instead of black.

I dont think there will be a regret, as it will still have the same "look" of International - just will be blue instead of black.

They are completely covering the top elements, changing the entire podium, the vertical elements will be made invisible, etc.

This won't look anything like the typical International style.


Again, I am not trying to argue this design should be rejected, just that there needs to be a discussion about all this.

Another new rendering:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst060119b.jpg

what if the glass were black, instead of blue. Would that do it for folks?

what about if they refurbished/kept the ribs but changed the glass to blue? or What about all clear glass or even reflective?

As for the plaza, Instead of making the podium larger I'd love to have a large pyramid to accompany the smaller/Underground ones - where the large new pyramid containing an Apple Store (or heck, even Microsoft Store lol).

What a sure fire way to activate that plaza while also igniting Park Avenue and downtown retail!

what if the glass were black, instead of blue. Would that do it for folks?

what about if they refurbished/kept the ribs but changed the glass to blue? or What about all clear glass or even reflective?

As for the plaza, Instead of making the podium larger I'd love to have a large pyramid to accompany the smaller/Underground ones - where the large new pyramid containing an Apple Store (or heck, even Microsoft Store lol).

What a sure fire way to activate that plaza while also igniting Park Avenue and downtown retail!

Personally I'm much more disappointed about them getting rid of the ribs than changing the color of the glass.

Personally I'm much more disappointed about them getting rid of the ribs than changing the color of the glass.

Yes, this. Without the ribs, it's just another big glass personality-less square tower, doesn't matter what the color is.

I don’t know . . . the building in the renderings looks like a BLC tower to me.

I'm so torn on this!!!!! I really like the idea of updating this place so it's not a pile of crap (thanks Cotter) and can actually attract tenants again. And I actually do like the new look (even if I'm in the minority) but i can't help but thinking we are going to miss having that classic example of International Style one day. Technically, there are a couple of others downtown that are International style, but nothing else SCREAMS it like this one. And we're not far enough away in time to really appreciate it yet.

So i usually like to look at the glass half full, so how about this?
If the building is built in a way where a re-skin like this can totally modernize the look 50 years after it was built, then it really has the potential to re-skin again in another 50 and continue to reinvent itself. Maybe this can be the building that regularly updates with the times? It wont be long and places like FNC will be hitting that centennial year and look what's happening with that complex. The fulgy International style newer building is the one that got dozed. Thankfully, structures like that can't re-skin...whew! But these glass curtain buildings....maybe we're just starting into the next phase of International Style's flexibility?

what if the glass were black, instead of blue. Would that do it for folks?

what about if they refurbished/kept the ribs but changed the glass to blue? or What about all clear glass or even reflective?

As for the plaza, Instead of making the podium larger I'd love to have a large pyramid to accompany the smaller/Underground ones - where the large new pyramid containing an Apple Store (or heck, even Microsoft Store lol).

What a sure fire way to activate that plaza while also igniting Park Avenue and downtown retail!

I do think if they just replaced the glass with same color of glass, but removed the different shades of glass, most people who thought tower was ugly would be happy.

If you look closely at the latest rendering in Pete's post, the ribs are still there, but they're painted the same color as the blue glass.

Not sure about this, but I imagine the ribs are an integral part of the structure.

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on conceptual renderings? Designs can change several times before the final building permits are filed. I would take all images with a grain a salt right now.

I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on conceptual renderings? Designs can change several times before the final building permits are filed. I would take all images with a grain a salt right now.

Its the plans resubmitted to Downtown Design Review Committee. They can only deviate so much once they get approved. They want to get started by fall so I don't expect the renderings to change significantly if they get the green light from the DDRC.

The new plans have yet to be submitted to the DDRC but these renderings are likely what will be included.

Their submission will also include a detailed description, which should answer a bunch of questions.

I'll be sure to post everything with the plans are formally filed.

In the second rendering, it looks like they plan to put a shade structure between the lobby and the SF parking garage.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst060419a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst060419b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bancfirst060419c.jpg

I don't know why, but for me the covering of the columns at the bottom is the most bothersome part of this proposed renovation. I really like how those look, with the way they taper up at the top. They kind of remind me of the Frank Lloyd Wright columns in the Johnson Wax building: https://www.scjohnson.com/en/a-family-company/architecture-and-tours

^

And they will be removing half the columns in total.

They should add baby back ribs and paint them Purple, because any paint on this building would be better then the dump that we currently have to look at. LOL, does it really matter at the end of the day?

They should add baby back ribs and paint them Purple, because any paint on this building would be better then the dump that we currently have to look at. LOL, does it really matter at the end of the day?

^ this is the best post yet, lol.

They should add baby back ribs and paint them Purple, because any paint on this building would be better then the dump that we currently have to look at. LOL, does it really matter at the end of the day?


Thank you... In all due respect to historical architecture, I have never liked the look of this building from the time it was built... I thought the earlier renderings were an improvement and think the final renderings are a huge improvement...but beauty is in the eye and all that...

They should add baby back ribs and paint them Purple, because any paint on this building would be better then the dump that we currently have to look at. LOL, does it really matter at the end of the day?

Right now it's a strong example of the international style. I know that's not everybody's cup of tea, but it's easily OKC's best example of it. Right now that design style is probably at its lowest point of popularity. Now maybe 20 years from now people will say "oh god those were hideous", but I think it's likely that people will think they look retro and cool.

Even if you don't like it, getting rid of it now would be like throwing out your MC Hammer pants right before they come back into style.

Even if you don't like it, getting rid of it now would be like throwing out your MC Hammer pants right before they come back into style.
For some, they were never in style... and for others, they never will be again.

For some, they were never in style... and for others, they never will be again.

same can be said for any form of architecture.... your point???

This building looks like a monument to bolo ties and polyester slacks. At first I thought this could be a braniff building type mistake but we already have enough international style in OKC. This is one opportunity to move away from the bolo tie and polyester image this building represents.

same can be said for any form of architecture.... your point???
I was commenting specifically on Hoya's "MC Hammer pants" remark (which is why I quoted that specific part of his post). But to your point, you are never going to make everyone happy... especially on this forum.

Another Oklahoma-based company is making a very substantial reinvestment into a downtown landmark after decades of neglect; yet it never seems to be good enough. Devon Tower wasn't tall enough, BOK Tower didn't quite measure up to idealistic expectations, insert another present large-scale project that fails to meet perfection, and the same song goes on and on.

I keep waiting for one of these idealists to step up to the plate with their own resources to build the perfect project. Easy to be critical when you have no actual skin in the game.

This building looks like a monument to bolo ties and polyester slacks. At first I thought this could be a braniff building type mistake but we already have enough international style in OKC. This is one opportunity to move away from the bolo tie and polyester image this building represents.

Honest question, I'm not an architecture nerd so I don't know - what are the other International Style buildings in OKC?

I understand the whingeing on the Mummer's Theater, but this is a substantial upgrade that is also a responsible one. The replacement of modern windows should cut the AC Load factor by tons and make this a much better internal environment.

This building was never an important architectural statement, or leading edge, or inspired or inspiring. The building isn't being torn down and is in fact being made much more appealing. This isn't just someone putting sheet metal facade over a brick face 1 story building. This is a major commitment with an uplift to downtown. And yet, the whingeing goes on....and on... and on.

In 50 years if one of these critics of the change want's to buy the building and put back the arches on the top and bottom to revive the original look, more power to them - shouldn't be that hard. But I doubt even then they will want to go back to the crappy ineffective glass that is in there now.

I understand the whingeing on the Mummer's Theater, but this is a substantial upgrade that is also a responsible one. The replacement of modern windows should cut the AC Load factor by tons and make this a much better internal environment.

This building was never an important architectural statement, or leading edge, or inspired or inspiring. The building isn't being torn down and is in fact being made much more appealing. This isn't just someone putting sheet metal facade over a brick face 1 story building. This is a major commitment with an uplift to downtown. And yet, the whingeing goes on....and on... and on.

In 50 years if one of these critics of the change want's to buy the building and put back the arches on the top and bottom to revive the original look, more power to them - shouldn't be that hard. But I doubt even then they will want to go back to the crappy ineffective glass that is in there now.

Don't believe I've seen it mentioned, but why can't the new glass just replace the old glass and leave the architectural details intact instead of re-skinning the entire building?

Honest question, I'm not an architecture nerd so I don't know - what are the other International Style buildings in OKC?

50 Penn Place is probably the single best example along with the former BOK Plaza tower in downtown. Look at these two towers and there's clear relation to Liberty/BancFirst. Union Bank in NW is another excellent example. Valliance Bank may also be considered a form of International as well (mainly due to the four prominent columns on the corners).

None of these are as tall nor prominent as Liberty/BancFirst tower, OKC's 2nd tallest building, but we do have many examples of International once the facade changes.

Finally - I want to reiterate that BancFirst will still be an International-Style skyscraper, it just wont be as IN YOUR FACE brute International with the facade changing to blue glass and blue rib panels. Make no mistake those facets upcoming and the overall style of the building are still International. It's not going to smooth out and jump to Modern-Style ala Leadership Square or Oklahoma Tower all of sudden.

If there's an architectural style that OKC missed out on it is Post Modern, seen in many of the prominent buildings in downtown Dallas.