Ward 6, but yes, JoBeth

Ward 6, but yes, JoBeth

Duh, thanks, was thinking of my ward. :doh:

Wow! Just walked down this street and this is maybe the worst planning I’ve ever seen. Big groups of people are just walking in the street with cars behind them because there’s literally no access north/south. How do people keep their job’s with such negligence?

Wow! Just walked down this street and this is maybe the worst planning I’ve ever seen. Big groups of people are just walking in the street with cars behind them because there’s literally no access north/south. How do people keep their job’s with such negligence?

Because the negligence, ignorance of best practices, and don't-give-a-sh*t-ness about pedestrians goes all the way up the ladder...

Gotta give this construction project credit for not closing off the sidewalk on Main and Broadway.

Apparently I should not have posted this.

Apparently I should not have posted this.
I had to pick the wife up at the Tulsa airport last night at 11. Leaving OKC I again noted how our downtown looked sad. Minimal buildings lighted at best. Tulsa as always looked superb with all major building nicely lighted and the entire downtown looking like life existed there, at least from the highway. I will be glad when the BancFirst tower and the First National building have some lights. I just hope it doesn't take forever to happen.

Im confused. Are you equating the lighting of buildings to the overall liveliness of a city?

Im confused. Are you equating the lighting of buildings to the overall liveliness of a city?

To his point it definitely has an impact. What do people think driving by a dark city versus a lit up city? BOK did some cool lighting with their crown last night and Bancfirst and First National will drastically change the lighting of downtown. If only Devon would go back to the solid lights. you could see it all the way from Norman

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/banfirst102719a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/banfirst102719b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/banfirst102719c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/banfirst102719d.jpg

It’s funny how many people here like this project and yet complain about cookie cutter suburban development. I guess cookie cutter urban development is okay.

Lingo Construction has tons of construction safety signs around the site, but its actually more dangerous being a pedestrian directly outside the site.

Somebody file an ADA complaint already, this is nuts. I've walked it, and ridden my bike through it. I don't see how this construction needs so much more room than the first national construction has thus far in spots.

Somebody file an ADA complaint already, this is nuts. I've walked it, and ridden my bike through it. I don't see how this construction needs so much more room than the first national construction has thus far in spots.

The situation is made far worse by the fact that there is no other easy way to walk north/south as First National is more or less a super block.

The closest way is to walk the way over to EK Gaylord and then walk past another super block.

Hard to believe they did this.

In that first picture, just picture 10 people walking in the right lane with a car behind them. That's what I saw both times I passed the street. Insanity.

I think DowntownMan's ticket above only got them to put out 'Sidewalk Closed' signs surrounding the construction. Because they were not there last week, but have showed up over the weekend. These same signs to indicate with arrows pointing pedestrians to use the east side of the construction site to pass north/south (through the Santa Fe Garage overhang directly adjacent to the BancFirst Tower Plaza.

Drove by this last night to see what the bid deal was, and ho-ly-sh!t... I get the complaint. There is NO way to walk north on Broadway from Main to Park without going around the buildings. I don't get this and I like Stan and Lingo construction, in general, but this is a major fail...

Somebody file an ADA complaint already, this is nuts. I've walked it, and ridden my bike through it. I don't see how this construction needs so much more room than the first national construction has thus far in spots.

To put this into perspective. If someone were in a wheelchair and needed to go from
Bancfirst current headquarter to the Bancfirst tower. They would need to go west on sidewalk and cross at Robinson and then head east on sidewalk all the way to Gaylord to cross back over. Then head back west to get into Bancfirst tower. And just hope they aren’t coming from anywhere at park and broadway as that makes it even more complicated.
Totally a nightmare for anyone who isn’t physically able to walk across a street or across a street where there isn’t crosswalks.

I'd *love* to file an ADA complaint, but looked it up and I can't do it because you have to have experienced it firsthand and have evidence of discrimination to file one. But if somebody in a wheelchair was down there and just took pics, that would be plenty to file one, I'd think. JoBeth Hamon should be contacted about this if she hasn't already been, and there should be laws/rules/statutes put in place to prevent this kind of crap, OKC needs to grow up and do things *RIGHT* when it comes to this, not just half-ass it, other cities have done this properly for decades.

I don't believe we have any type of pedestrian accommodation ordinance, so providing pedestrian access during construction is not required. Closing a lane of traffic, however, requires approval of the city's traffic engineer.

I'm told the city has an ADA office though, which is responsible for making sure the city is compliant. Seems like that office would be all up in this.

I'm told the city has an ADA office though, which is responsible for making sure the city is compliant. Seems like that office would be all up in this.

If somebody brings it to their attention, maybe. We have so much non-ADA compliant stuff (buildings, sidewalks, bus stops) in OKC, it's insane. Just emailed my councilman (Mr. Cooper) about it to see if he can pass the info on to Ms. Hamon.

You guys should also call or email Lingo construction. Don't know if they will respond but the complaints couldn't hurt.

They didn't indicate the extent of the closure around the building at the tenant meeting a few weeks ago. This is indeed a much bigger nightmare than expected. Really not sure why they need all of the sidewalks closed, especially since the actual sidewalk portion was just completed as part of Project 180 and doesn't need to be touched as part of the renovation.

^

And that sidewalk is not the property of BancFirst, it's city-owned ROW.

Isn't the Underground also now closed in this area?

Yes, ran into this trying to find an alternate route around the sidewalk issue.

Lots of orange and yellow vests and city employees walking around this area and along this street. Not sure if it’s related to these complaints or just related to the construction. But definitely city employees out there right now.
1:30pm 10/29

Got a reply back from Ward 6, basically said "Too bad, Hamon and Nice signed off on all this when they were updated a while back".

I'm not sure about that. I got a response from Councilwoman Hamon and she is looking for ways to help.

I'm not sure about that. I got a response from Councilwoman Hamon and she is looking for ways to help.

Completely different response than what I got, here's my reply from Ward 6, verbatim (and it's not actually from Ms. Hamon or her assistant, it's from the City (which sucks a** in almost every street/pedestrian construction aspect, so I'm not surprised they just said "screw pedestrians"):

We received another email regarding the BancFirst Tower construction and pedestrian access. We asked the City’s Public Works Director for information regarding these issues. Below is the response we received with the attachments.

"Bancfirst is beginning an 18 month renovation project that will utilize a portion of the traffic lanes on both Main and Broadway. First National is already utilizing a portion of the lanes on Broadway as part of their project. The BancFirst work zone was approved last week to reduce Broadway to one lane, northbound which will remain in place until late Summer 2020. As a part of the work zone request from BancFirst, the City required the contractor to reach out to all of the stakeholders in the area including First National, Skirvin, Continental and also BC Clark. All were supportive of the work proceeding and with the plan on reducing the traffic on Broadway.

Since both First National and BancFirst will be under construction at the same time on Broadway, pedestrian traffic from Main to Park on Broadway will not be possible due to the amount of construction in the area and maintaining pedestrian safety. BancFirst will be providing pedestrian wayfinding signage in the area to direct pedestrians in and around the area. BancFirst will also maintain the pedestrian, and all vehicular traffic control signage for the during of construction.

I was able to update both Councilwoman Nice and Councilwoman Hamon last week on the plans. The work zone and pedestrian plans that I also provided to them are attached for your info. They both appreciated the update.

Construction is difficult to accommodate downtown, especially when multiple projects are occurring at the same time. Pedestrian access will be restored on Broadway as soon as the work at First Nation is complete, again likely late Summer 20202. "

I hope this information is helpful.

Regards –

Randy Bennett
Special Assistant to Council
405/297-2404

Main is getting more insane. People are crossing on the north side of Main/Broadway heading East and are basically walking blind into the head-on traffic lane. Today they are also placing red taping and collision water-barrels in front of the entry to BancFirst tower directly across from CLR. This mid-block is high traffic and now people are forced to cross diagonally an even further distance than before - all while dodging cars merging around the closed lane.

The cold weather makes the situation even worse because of the metal crates cover the only sidewalk into the building. Just about bit it this morning walking into the building as those grates had formed ice on them and virtually span the entire sidewalk that is available. They closed the underground just in time for it to be useful!

"Welcome to Oklahoma City construction, where everything's made up and pedestrians don't matter"

You know what would really kill right in the middle of all this construction? A great clips. They would absolutely kill it. Right in between the construction gates on main. I was walking by there the other day and thought “wow, I would just love to sit down and get a quality great clips cut. Right here on the Demi’s sidewalk

“Construction is difficult in downtown”

Hmmmm... I guess construction in OKC is more complex than LA or NYC where they have 80+ story skyscrapers being built on lots a quarter of the footprint of BancFirst site and they somehow can keep pedestrian access open.

“Construction is difficult in downtown”

Hmmmm... I guess construction in OKC is more complex than LA or NYC where they have 80+ story skyscrapers being built on lots a quarter of the footprint of BancFirst site and they somehow can keep pedestrian access open.

Yeah, pretty much every part of OKC construction/traffic/OKCDOT is crap, as evidenced by, well, look around. Wish Couch going away would've also resulted in some of his (no-doubt) cronies infesting OKC government going away too.

“Construction is difficult in downtown”

Hmmmm... I guess construction in OKC is more complex than LA or NYC where they have 80+ story skyscrapers being built on lots a quarter of the footprint of BancFirst site and they somehow can keep pedestrian access open.
I mean, this is pretty much all that needs to be said. Anyone that has walked through Manhattan would find it hard to believe granting pedestrian access through a construction site in downtown OKC is too complex to figure out.

Again, the fact that people whose job is to understand this stuff are justifying these choices instead of fixing it is negligence... and I don't use that word lightly. Will they take responsibility if someone is killed? The reality is that most people will not walk 3+ blocks around a building when the Sheraton is 500 feet away. They're just going to walk in the one car lane as people are already doing. The we-have-two-construction-projects-at-once-so-pedestrians-must-suffer excuse is pathetic. Major league cities figure this stuff out.

So what else can we concerned citizens do to bring attention to this stupidity and get it fixed? Hamon already knows about it and may be able to help (I doubt much will come of whatever her effort is, but it would be great if she could make any kind of impact on this crap), but I suspect that we're just stuck with the idiocy, as we will be for another generation until the Stuart Chai's get out of OKC government.

And I'd bet that if anybody got injured or killed, that person would just get cited by OKCPD for walking in the traffic right-of-way...

Yeah, pretty much every part of OKC construction/traffic/OKCDOT is crap, as evidenced by, well, look around. Wish Couch going away would've also resulted in some of his (no-doubt) cronies infesting OKC government going away too.
Correct me if I’m wrong but the new manager doesn’t have as much power as couch did.

I haven't been in the area in awhile, so I have a question and an observation.

Question. Can't pedestrians go across the street and walk north-south on the west side of the street (in front of the Sheraton)?

Observation. I haven't traveled to a bunch of downtown areas in other cities, but I have made scores of trips through construction zones on the Las Vegs Strip over the last 15 years. And fear of death is constant while walking amongst the thousands of people going north and south in a 42 inch wide enclosed sidewalk area taking up part of a traffic lane. I haven't noticed Las Vegas area construction zones being any better than Oklahoma City.

I’m in Las Vegas all the time and I disagree. Vegas does much better in insuring protected ped access

I think only option now is to try to get a news station to do a story and get bad publicity on the coty as that is usually the only way they listen these days

I’m in Las Vegas all the time and I disagree. Vegas does much better in insuring protected ped access

With zero snark, I will say we have a difference of opinion between two people who are both intelligent, well informed and love Oklahoma City. Nothing wrong with that.

You'd think they were dropping anvils on peoples' heads as they walked by. It's not that serious.

I haven't been in the area in awhile, so I have a question and an observation.

Question. Can't pedestrians go across the street and walk north-south on the west side of the street (in front of the Sheraton)?



FNC construction is taking the whole southbound side Broadway. Plus, either way, its nowhere near ADA compliant.

The solution is simple really, if they wanted to spend the money,anyway. Build a covered walkway. There spending millions of dollars on a remodel, they can build a covered walkway.

There is no way to get to the Sheraton from the Skirvin without walking in the car lane.

Vegas is NOT a great pedestrian city. Neither is Dallas. Not really sure the point of pointing out other cities that are terrible for pedestrians. If it’s bad it’s bad.

Yet Vegas boulevard has more pedestrian traffic per hour than lots of cities see in a year. lol okay

I feel that median along Broadway will probably be turn up eventually for a turn lane into fnc garage so why not turn it is to a temporary sideway right now?

Vegas is NOT a great pedestrian city. Neither is Dallas. Not really sure the point of pointing out other cities that are terrible for pedestrians. If it’s bad it’s bad.

Buildings aren’t close together, and there’s tons of elevated walkways, but it’s pretty easy to walk place to place without interacting with BLVD traffic.

My reference to Las Vegas regards only pedestrian protection during construction on Las Vegas Blvd. And I have had many harrowing experiences on narrow and uneven diverters during construction at Palazzo, Linq, Harmon Corner, City Center, etc. Permanent pedestrian access is another story.

Only reason I mentioned it is because posters opined that OKC is the worst at construction pedestrian protection.

^

And that sidewalk is not the property of BancFirst, it's city-owned ROW.

Isn't the Underground also now closed in this area?

generaly speaking property owners own the the middle of the street around their property

ROW and easements are not ownership

generaly speaking property owners own the the middle of the street around their property

ROW and easements are not ownership

What???

I've heard Eric Wenger give this lecture as well. He says that in OKC the property line goes to the middle of the street. Not testifying to the veracity, just saying I have witnessed him say this on at least three occasions.

Yeah, well try building anything on a sidewalk or into the street and see how that works out.

And if you look at the county assessor site, you can see this is 100% not true. Lines are clearly drawn.

And for example, all the P180 work was done on city property (sidewalks, streets) and with city money.

I've heard Eric Wenger give this lecture as well. He says that in OKC the property line goes to the middle of the street. Not testifying to the veracity, just saying I have witnessed him say this on at least three occasions.

Even if that is technically true, does that really change anything? It's still the cities ROW, I cant just go out and block the road because I feel like it. Also, if someone hits a pothole in the street in front of my house, they cant expect me to pay for damages.

But the city expects you to mow their ROW on your own dime...

Oklahoma counties assessor is very good IMO, but can be inaccurate when it comes to the property lines on the map. Surveys provide the most accurate lot line locations which shouldn't surprise anyone. I will say though I have never experienced people owning to the middle of the road. Usually it is just to the curb cut where there is ROW as well as zoning setbacks that cannot be built on.

What???

ie when the city vacates an alley easement or vacates a street the ajoining property owners don't "buy" that land back from the city


when REHCO wanted the city to close the streets going through their property next to the peake they would not have had to buy that land from the city

ie when the city vacates an alley easement or vacates a street the ajoining property owners don't "buy" that land back from the city


when REHCO wanted the city to close the streets going through their property next to the peake they would not have had to buy that land from the city

Yes that's correct, the property lines do go to the center of the street, but the owner of the easement is reponsible for maintining it per the terms of whatever ROW/easement agreement was made with the surface owner at the time.