I think it would be very hard to prove that his MAPS opposition had anything to do with his firing. How about the police and firemen who are pro-MAPS? Wonder if they'd be received with open arms if they told people their position. I know one who told me he's voting for MAPS and is afraid to say anything. It's not right to fire someone for their political views, but there's probably no way to know if it had any bearing.
I find that hard to believe. I'd imagine the Police Officer isn't with Oklahoma City or the Officer doesn't answer calls. We have a few in our supply room that need to be relocated to answering calls. I'd imagine one of those would vote YES..but highly unlikely...Likewise, I've spoken to quite a few employees for Chesapeake, Devon etc...that refuse to announce to many folks that they are voting NO.

I think Devon is more a community minded company.
The Enron on Western is another story..lol
But having friends in both companies, who said they were told how bad it will be for the company to attract and operate as profitable if this MAPS doesnt pass.
I used to work at Amerivision and one of the Executives announce if Bill Clinton is reelected the company will lay off 70% of the employees.
Less then 3 hours later a lawyer got a hold of the memo.

I'm thinking it will pass. Folks do like their Kool-Aid all in all.

Now, assuming it passes, if the city leaders get hinky with things, I have the ability to do all my purchasing outside the city limits. that takes out not only the MAPs portion, but the rest of it as well.

Of course, a lot of folks who reside within the limits have that same option, though it's not real practical for others.

Hopefully, anyone with hinky plans does already realize this simple lil' factoid, as it would cost them a bunch if folks got serious about spending more in the adjoining communities as an after the fact means of protest.

Ok, pot being stirred, time to let it simmer.

Of course, a lot of folks who reside within the limits have that same option, though it's not real practical for others.

Hopefully, anyone with hinky plans does already realize this simple lil' factoid, as it would cost them a bunch if folks got serious about spending more in the adjoining communities as an after the fact means of protest.

Ok, pot being stirred, time to let it simmer.
Get real! Do you think most people will start shopping in other places? Don't you do that already? You live in Norman. Do you drive to a Wal Mart in OKC? :doh: I doubt it. Mark my words. There will be layoffs at this Broke city while they push another LUXURY tax on the citizens. They will NOT complete all the "proposed" projects. They will not meet projected revenues...There will be only a handful of jobs created...mostly from hotels and the like..
"pie in the sky" just others have said....

Get real! Do you think most people will start shopping in other places? Don't you do that already? You live in Norman. Do you drive to a Wal Mart in OKC? :doh: I doubt it. Mark my words. There will be layoffs at this Broke city while they push another LUXURY tax on the citizens. They will NOT complete all the "proposed" projects. They will not meet projected revenues...There will be only a handful of jobs created...mostly from hotels and the like..
"pie in the sky" just others have said....

Wow, you performed some in-depth research there to come up with that angry, whining, emotional diatribe.

Tell us your theory of municipal macroeconomics. This should be entertaining.

I'm thinking it will pass. Folks do like their Kool-Aid all in all.

Now, assuming it passes, if the city leaders get hinky with things, I have the ability to do all my purchasing outside the city limits. that takes out not only the MAPs portion, but the rest of it as well.

Of course, a lot of folks who reside within the limits have that same option, though it's not real practical for others.

Hopefully, anyone with hinky plans does already realize this simple lil' factoid, as it would cost them a bunch if folks got serious about spending more in the adjoining communities as an after the fact means of protest.

Ok, pot being stirred, time to let it simmer.

Shopping outside OKC is always an option for anyone who objects to the MAPS tax. Personally, I make it a point to only shop inside the city limits so I can support the tax, and if this MAPS passes, will continue to do the same. I try to limit catalog shopping if at all possible as well, as I'd rather tax dollars go to OKC than spend an equivalent amount of money on shipping, with all the dollars going to another municipality.

If our city leaders don't follow the MAPS proposals as outlined, they'll lose any opportunity to ever pass another one. People are able to look at what has been done with prior MAPS proposals in order to assume what will happen with the next. If they're not built and people cannot see value for their money, they'll never pass another one.

... Mark my words. There will be layoffs at this Broke city while they push another LUXURY tax on the citizens. They will NOT complete all the "proposed" projects. They will not meet projected revenues...There will be only a handful of jobs created...mostly from hotels and the like.. "pie in the sky" just others have said....

With respect, your words are, as often as not, akin to water out a whale's blow hole .... rushed, barren of useful substance, flung wide as waste, with little precision, and contributing little to others beyond a simply noisy regurgitation of something that was already there, with a smattering of bile added in.

You write with pseudo-authority, asserting with certainty matters which, though possible in theory, have been shown via local history to be rather improbable results, certainly not probable enough to make them an attractive choice to those possessing a reasonable level of prudence, or even minimally attractive to a somewhat reckless gambler. You're completely entitled to your opinion, but have no entitlement to have others adopt it, and as anyone must, you should expect that some with reject it after reviewing the results you advocate.

There is often a shrillness in your untenable positions which leave your stances a mere mockery of your original advocacy. More and more, your chosen words ring of a desperation and frustration of a position that cannot support its own weight in the realm of public opinion, much less carry another's opinion into the camp you advocate.

Per your request, I have again considered your words, and I have marked them ... albeit with a note of dismissal, as after careful consideration, that is all your words merit.

With respect, your words are, as often as not, akin to water out a whale's blow hole .... rushed, barren of useful substance, flung wide as waste, with little precision, and contributing little to others beyond a simply noisy regurgitation of something that was already there, with a smattering of bile added in.

You write with pseudo-authority, asserting with certainty matters which, though possible in theory, have been shown via local history to be rather improbable results, certainly not probable enough to make them an attractive choice to those possessing a reasonable level of prudence, or even minimally attractive to a somewhat reckless gambler. You're completely entitled to your opinion, but have no entitlement to have others adopt it, and as anyone must, you should expect that some with reject it after reviewing the results you advocate.

There is often a shrillness in your untenable positions which leave your stances a mere mockery of your original advocacy. More and more, your chosen words ring of a desperation and frustration of a position that cannot support its own weight in the realm of public opinion, much less carry another's opinion into the camp you advocate.

Per your request, I have again considered your words, and I have marked them ... albeit with a note of dismissal, as after careful consideration, that is all your words merit.Rather elegant prose -- very nice.

I have never seen so much anti-MAPS before.

Do you all think it will pass?

Do you all think it will pass?
No, it will not.
Kevin. Are you still here? How's everything down in Norman? I'm sorry I didn't mean to strike a nerve. That was a lot of work just to say a whole lot of nothing.

Wow, you performed some in-depth research there to come up with that angry, whining, emotional diatribe.
Understanding why THIS maps isn't going to pass and why it's not good for this city doesn't take some sort of in depth research. :doh: It's mostly common sense maybe that's why you can't grasp it.

I have never seen so much anti-MAPS before.

Do you all think it will pass?

Any election outcome can alter, even in its final 24 hours, but I'll be surprised if MAPs3 does not pass once the countin' is completed.

That being noted, I will also be surprised if it is not a close vote. Indeed, I suspect the final tally will have a spread of 4 percent or less. Whether it is 50%+1 or three to 49.999% against, or whether it is 53% in favor to 48% against, it will be close.

So, whether one is against This MAPs or in favor of it, this will not a race to sit out. Neither side has it whupped, but the Yeas have a lot going for them.

The Mayor can explain the MAPS3 Tax and cost per family a lot better than I can.
Leaving Facebook... | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/l/bc482;www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE)

Since this topic is new information I guess I will have to put my "new information" here. video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/4138849931_6949601741.jpg YouTube Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHAd1PjYLSE) The Math: The figures come from Tom Anderson - project coordinator for the city, a past city budget director, and Mark Snead /OSU Economics Professor and OKC's Budget Forecaster. When confronted the Chamber president Roy Williams agreed.

The Mayor can explain the MAPS3 Tax and cost per family a lot better than I can.

[link omitted]

As noted in a different thread, actually a piece of satire, not the mayor. Not a surprise, considering the source of the link.

It is often said a mark of a desperate man is putting forth a lie to bolster an otherwise weak position.

Since this topic is new information I guess I will have to put my "new information" here. ...

Cheesy satire, but at least you don't try to present it as being otherwise.

It is often said a mark of a desperate man is putting forth a lie to bolster an otherwise weak position.
Kevin Pate

I noticed a large "Vote Yes" banner yesterday along I-40 west of MacArthur and today it has been vandalized and ripped down. The sign was not in the right-of-way and therefore the city didn't have anything to do with the installation or removal.

ALL legally placed signs, both those supporting the issue and those against the issue, should be left standing and unaltered.

Sadly, many signs won't be left undisturbed. There are fools, hooligans and total wastes of genetic material in both camps.

David, how many times to you intend to post that ugly graphic in this forum? Did you say that you were responsible for the cheap shot graphic? http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gifhttp://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gifhttp://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/coretoshore/maps3/yesmaps.gif

Hi Doug, probably once per relevant topic. I made the video with help, the graphic is a screen grab of the video. I noticed you didn't refute any of the content. I guess you don't think the words are a cheap shot. Your blog helped in the research. Thanks.

Your right, and your right about the $50. Arson may have been a stretch. But then I thought such a tough sounding idle threat by someone hiding behind a screen name was a stretch as well.

Yea, arson was quite a stretch, Andy but no more ridiculous than you threatening to organize a firefighters boycott of my business because of my opposition to the unions tactics on the MAPS issue, as you threatened in your PM to me...

...but that is your and the unions M.O., isn't it Andy..."Give us what we want or else..."

Yea, arson was quite a stretch, Andy but no more ridiculous than you threatening to organize a firefighters boycott of my business because of my opposition to the unions tactics on the MAPS issue, as you threatened in your PM to me...

...but that is your and the unions M.O., isn't it Andy..."Give us what we want or else..."

Wow! That is truly pathetic on Andy part if it is true. What a bully and petty tactics.

Yea, arson was quite a stretch, Andy but no more ridiculous than you threatening to organize a firefighters boycott of my business because of my opposition to the unions tactics on the MAPS issue, as you threatened in your PM to me...

...but that is your and the unions M.O., isn't it Andy..."Give us what we want or else..."Well I thought your tuff guy (or gal, which ever the case may be) threat of how you would burn NO signs sounded ridiculous. So I guess making bold statements while hiding behind a screen name is your M.O. However since you brought it up. By the way, the Union does not belong to me, and never has. Furthermore, I'm retired, that makes me a civilian, so anything I have to say to you will be man to man, unless your a woman.

Let me ask you again here in public. Why would you want to do business with a group of people who disgust you?

Originally Posted by andy157

It seems pretty clear you harbor a strong dislike for the Firefighters based upon their opposition to MAPS. I don't take issue with that, and I doubt few of them would either.

When I consider the level of disgust you display toward them, coupled with the lack of respect you have for them it leads me to believe they're not the type of people whom you would care to do business with.

You mentioned you had a business somewhere on the Southside. I am sure you are aware, as it turns out, the majority of Firefighters who actually live in OKC, live on the Southside. Please forward me the name and location of your business and I will be happy to advise them to shop elsewhere. That will lesson the risk of future conflicts.

Here is your response.

My disgust isn't with firefighters but with the extortionist tactics being employed by you and the union leaders.

Now your taking the opportunity to not only threaten harm to the city and citizens at large but to personally harm be for my opposition to your sleezy tactics.

Way to stoop to a new low. Are you going to want protection money next?

I was asked if they could put no signs in front of my business and I told them "only if you want to see them piled up in the street, going up in flames".

There is going to be a lot of bad blood long after this election is over. There has been a lot of discussion among my customers about the extortion tactics the unions are using against the city on this issue...

The only threats I can see is removing and burning signs and harboring "bad blood" long after this election is over.

I think Andy was graciously trying to help you avoid having to deal with the disgusting, sleazy, extortionist union members that you so evidently despise.

Maybe you can stand them as long as they're paying customers. Or maybe you were just making idle and empty threats. Either way I think Andy has you pegged pretty well.

The only threats I can see is removing and burning signs and harboring "bad blood" long after this election is over.

I think Andy was graciously trying to help you avoid having to deal with the disgusting, sleazy, extortionist union members that you so evidently despise.

Maybe you can stand them as long as they're paying customers. Or maybe you were just making idle and empty threats. Either way I think Andy has you pegged pretty well.

There is a big difference between deploring the tactics being employed by the firefighters union and "harbor a strong dislike for the Firefighters"...

I have several firefighters who are friends and customers whom I have made my views on this issue very clear to, including the firefighter who asked if he could put signs in front of my store. Of course, his question was somewhat tongue and cheek because he knows how I feel about the MAPS issue, as was my response to him but it accurately conveyed how strongly I feel about the unions tactics on this issue.

I have no problem with firefighters or the police for that matter, nor do I have a problem with their desire for more money for their departments but the reality is, you'd be hard pressed to find any govmt agency or dept. at any level that doesn't feel like they need more money in their budget and you don't see them resorting to these kind of sleazy tactics.

The unions decision to threaten the city with doing everything they can to defeat an unrelated issue if their demands aren't met is extortion, plain and simple and I for one, think it's deplorable.

The union leaders have set the course and now they can take full responsibility for the results. If not for the union's "not this MAPS" campaign, there would be virtually no visible, organized opposition to MAPS and if the measure fails the public perception will be the unions are to blame for the measure not passing. If you don't think that that will create resentment from MAPS supporters, then you are are sadly mistaken. On the other hand, if MAPS passes, the union can expect city leaders to be even less sympathetic to their demands because of these tactics...

Sounds like a failed, no win course of action to me...

I am in the position of wondering if this whole situation was not created by a failed union leadership that has not been able to do anything with the city because of their weak leadership and have led the unions into this destrutive endeavor by grasping at straws to save their leadership positions.

We are in this position because the city forced our hand. Over the past ten years OKC's population has grown appx. 100,000. Our staffing along with police and other city departments have continually taken cuts in our budgets and staffing levels. Those were in huge years of growth. Now they want to take my and your money for more pet projects. By the way, Our union leadership is not weak. The members are the leadership. There is a ton of factual info at Not This Maps.com

Fire Union leadership has never been stronger. Extortion could be used reciprocally in the last offer made by the city to the fire department which makes blatantly obvious the terms of their desired agreement: no maps, no money.

MIII has always been at risk of "dying on the vine" because of the circumlocution employed by city leadership in its presentation of topic to the public, this is true in both previous and current polls. I am not by any means claiming victory for my side, but the city needs public safety on board to promote an easy pass of its agenda and its clear in its desperate attempt at a final offer. Are the citizens to believe that if MIII doesn't pass, poof, the cauffers are empty?

Extortion could also be used in referring to the means by which the city chooses to bargain. Stonewalling is the word, pushing negotiations past the tipping point where good faith is left unattainable, using PS's agreement never to strike as lever, and the threat of public opinion, (as you are doing) as fulcrum.

I'll say it again, this began for PS on the bargaining table. This has become a city wide movement for people who do not wish their representative government to operate under such ambiguity and disregard for essential services.

Public Safety has alleged in this forum that it has a high approval rating in the area of 90 per cent, which I would not disagree with and perhaps that is part of your problem with the city. If the citizens are happy with your services, then the city is not compelled to add more staffing. I would add that perhaps there is a city leadership problem also. The bottom line though is that the city has a long way to go to bring it up to par in quality of life and some of the items you call pet projects are necessary.

We are in this position because the city forced our hand. Over the past ten years OKC's population has grown appx. 100,000. Our staffing along with police and other city departments have continually taken cuts in our budgets and staffing levels. Those were in huge years of growth. Now they want to take my and your money for more pet projects. By the way, Our union leadership is not weak. The members are the leadership. There is a ton of factual info at Not This Maps.com

Well said.

I am in the position of wondering if this whole situation was not created by a failed union leadership that has not been able to do anything with the city because of their weak leadership and have led the unions into this destrutive endeavor by grasping at straws to save their leadership positions.

If by weak and failed leadership you mean bending over backwards to get along with the city leadership, you might have a point. But then we're not really in a position to demand much. We're pretty much stuck in a position of hoping they'll come through on some of the promises they make when they need something from us, and can never seem to remember making once they get what they want.

Do you all seriously think you are alone in this? Do you think private businesses haven't had to cut back on staff? How about state government? Some of us are working harder than ever too for the same reasons. Doesn't mean I want to punish my city, my state or my fellow citizens by trying to block projects that make us a better place in which to live. I'm very happy I have a job, quite frankly, when so many others don't. I'm voting for public works that will create jobs for those without.

Betts

A dead horse called, said something about "please tell her to stop beating me..." I don't know, I just took a message.

Yes we're all in a recession. Yes we are all required to cut back. But we are being required to cut back into the quick, into an area that is fraught with safety issues, and then also convenience issues. We are not relenting, because we are rightly due a fair shake and safe working conditions from which to provide public safety.

Folks what we are dealing with is the biggest GANG in our city,they have to be dealt with,we wont ever get to where we want to go if we let these gang members hold us hostage.Vote Yes for Maps.

Folks what we are dealing with is the biggest GANG in our city,they have to be dealt with,we wont ever get to where we want to go if we let these gang members hold us hostage.Vote Yes for Maps.

Is this guy serious? Where is the camera, I must be getting punked. We're citizens too, pal. We are entitiled to our opinion just as you are. This is not simply union driven. The anti-MIII camp extends well beyond our small influences. Evidence in all the polls suggests a fairly even divide. If you're looking for Hoffa, keep digging bub.

Folks what we are dealing with is the biggest GANG in our city,they have to be dealt with,we wont ever get to where we want to go if we let these gang members hold us hostage.Vote Yes for Maps.

I'm confused.

A group of very wealthy people tells us to give them money. They say they'll build lots of fancy toys for the other rich people to use, and even a couple things that may help the entire city. But, they refuse to guarantee that they'll build -ANYTHING- on the list. They say if we don't give them money, the city will cease any forward progress and we'll never get any new business in OKC.

If we don't pay, we'll be sorry - that's the message I'm getting from the Vote Yes crowd.

Much the same as the message gangs give to business owners who refuse to pay "protection" money.

Which side is biggest GANG?

A group of very wealthy people tells us to give them money. They say they'll build lots of fancy toys for the other rich people to use, and even a couple things that may help the entire city. But, they refuse to guarantee that they'll build -ANYTHING- on the list.

Think you are confusing this with the Ford upgrade...Most of MAPSIII can be used by the po folks as well especially the free park

The sidewalks are free, the bike trails are free, the park is free. In some cities streetcars are free. Watching races on the river is free. Lots of free stuff to do and a lot of it healthy stuff too. We need more things like this in OKC because we're an obese city and people need to start getting outdoors and doing more.

I find it almost comical the the 3 unions the oppose MAPS3 are all very well compensated, decent salary and benefits that no employer in this City or State can match.

Paid leave (sick, vacation)
Education reimbursement (if job related), if your a police officer, they will pay for you to go to school, then increase your salary when you get your degree.
Health Care--for employee and family, at an average cost of over $10,000 dollars a year for every employee and retired employees.

And It should be noted that the 3 Union presidents are on the City payroll and receive the same benefit package.

Do you all seriously think you are alone in this? Do you think private businesses haven't had to cut back on staff? How about state government? Some of us are working harder than ever too for the same reasons. Doesn't mean I want to punish my city, my state or my fellow citizens by trying to block projects that make us a better place in which to live. I'm very happy I have a job, quite frankly, when so many others don't. I'm voting for public works that will create jobs for those without.

And how many people wouldn't get angry if a fifth of their staff was laid off so a business owner could buy a flat-screen TV for their storefront?

Think you are confusing this with the Ford upgrade...Most of MAPSIII can be used by the po folks as well especially the free park

I'm sure that little endearment will garner plenty of Yes votes.

Btw, who's going to be providing free rides to all the po folks to the free park?

talked to a guy that just retired from driving for the rail system in san diego ..

he said the rail system is a money pit. The city will always be losing money on a rail system.

how are we going to pay for a system that's going to pay for about 15-20 percent of it's operating costs?

I'm sure that little endearment will garner plenty of Yes votes.

Btw, who's going to be providing free rides to all the po folks to the free park?

As if free rides are necessary to most people? You're really pulling things out of a hat to whine about now.

talked to a guy that just retired from driving for the rail system in san diego ..

he said the rail system is a money pit. The city will always be losing money on a rail system.

how are we going to pay for a system that's going to pay for about 15-20 percent of it's operating costs?

Perhaps it is in San Diego. Its not necessarily a money pit everywhere. Dallas and Denver have pretty successful rail systems that are packed like sardine cans during rush hour and are continuing to expand.

Frankly, roads are a tremendous money pit. Unless they're a tollway, they pay for none of their operating costs. And we have to personally buy the car we ride in on them, as well as maintain and fuel it.

As if free rides are necessary to most people? You're really pulling things out of a hat to whine about now.

Wow.

That's all you got out of my response to Flatlander

No wonder the city council is able to hoodwink you people.

Wow.

That's all you got out of my response to Flatlander

No wonder the city council is able to hoodwink you people.

Purple - I think the issue is that we make our own decisions and we look past our own noses to see the benefits of MAPS3. We don't have unions and personal interests that make us willing to shoot ourselves in the foot.

There is no denying there are other things in the city that need addressing, but MAPS isn't the forum to address them. Otherwise, there is no denying that MAPS and M4K were wildly successful programs that brought billions in private investment to our city and provided much better learning environments to many of our children. MAPS3 is clearly a continuation of that process and will bring in hundreds of millions in additional private development and redevelopment to the central city.

Purple - I think the issue is that we make our own decisions and we look past our own noses to see the benefits of MAPS3. We don't have unions and personal interests that make us willing to shoot ourselves in the foot.

There is no denying there are other things in the city that need addressing, but MAPS isn't the forum to address them. Otherwise, there is no denying that MAPS and M4K were wildly successful programs that brought billions in private investment to our city and provided much better learning environments to many of our children. MAPS3 is clearly a continuation of that process and will bring in hundreds of millions in additional private development and redevelopment to the central city.

And my point is that the rest of the city needs hundreds of millions in additional private development and redevelopment. The central part of the city is thriving right now. You're asking the people in the blighted areas of this city, areas that have become hundreds of times worse in less than a generation, to foot the bill to reward the central part of the city and the residents living there.

Us "po folk" are being told to sit down and shut up. The rich folk living it up in the downtown area know what's good for us. If we're silent, obedient little "po folk", we might just be lucky enough to get a job and one of these fancy new projects cleaning up after the rich downtown residents. Hey! we might even get to drive rich people around in one of the Streetcars! Woo!

Oh, and if we don't shut up and vote Yes, we'll be sorry!!

The gangsters in the city council are taking this city for a ride. That's why they worded the ballot the way they did to specifically circumvent Article 10, Section 19 of the Oklahomoa Constitution.

Perhaps it is in San Diego. Its not necessarily a money pit everywhere. Dallas and Denver have pretty successful rail systems that are packed like sardine cans during rush hour and are continuing to expand.
Ok. How much of the rail systems in those cities are paid for by the City and not the riders?

I'm pretty sure in those two cities, which I've been to several times, they have a major traffic problem. Do we? No, We don't.

So what's the need for a rail? Parking downtown?

(Article IV S 11 No officer of the City shall benefit DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY in any contract made by, to or with the City, or be otherwise directly financially interested in any corporation having any contract or subcontract for doing any contact job or work for the City.)

Yea. How does the Mayor get past this Article with his job at Akerman? Doesn't he violate this article? Nay.. I'm crazy..:bright_id

Betts, I haven spoken to you in awhile and I hope you are doing fine. I just want to say that the NOT THIS MAPS campaign was probably the last to come aboard an already large number of people who oppose Maps 3. I also wanted to remind you that I was the first to tell you some 2 weeks ago that this is not going to past on the first try, trust me.

Purple - I think the issue is that we make our own decisions and we look past our own noses to see the benefits of MAPS3. We don't have unions and personal interests that make us willing to shoot ourselves in the foot.

There is no denying there are other things in the city that need addressing, but MAPS isn't the forum to address them. Otherwise, there is no denying that MAPS and M4K were wildly successful programs that brought billions in private investment to our city and provided much better learning environments to many of our children. MAPS3 is clearly a continuation of that process and will bring in hundreds of millions in additional private development and redevelopment to the central city.What is it about the members are the supreme authority of the Police and Fire Unions that you people for some reason don't or can't seem to understand?

Betts, I haven spoken to you in awhile and I hope you are doing fine. I just want to say that the NOT THIS MAPS campaign was probably the last to come aboard an already large number of people who oppose Maps 3. I also wanted to remind you that I was the first to tell you some 2 weeks ago that this is not going to past on the first try, trust me.

I don't think anyone is sure this will pass. I also think it's almost impossible to predict what is going to happen on election day, but, if it doesn't pass on the first "try", I'm not sure why you think there will be a second. I may not be around for a second try, as, if I see nothing but bleak days ahead for this city, I may end up giving in to my husband's wishes and go back to Denver, which, quite frankly, is a better city with far more to do. I'm not 30, and I don't want to wait around five years just in case the voters start caring more, and then wait another ten years for the projects to be implemented. MAPS is the only reason I stayed in the first place, and it's depressing to think we've got citizens who are so short sighted that they think there's anything good that can come of not passing this one. I love Oklahoma City, but I certainly loved Denver more when I moved here. There I can live downtown and use mass transit. I can shop downtown, I would again have four different professional teams, and a reasonable chance my kids will move to be near me. I can't get any of them to consider moving back here.

I'm just one person, although I'm diligent about keeping my sales tax money in the city, and one person doesn't matter. However, what I've found is most of us aren't unique, and if I'm thinking about it, I'm probably not alone. I keep racking my brain trying to figure out precisely how MAPS not passing IS good for Oklahoma City. I have yet to see one single valid argument for that point of view.

Ok. How much of the rail systems in those cities are paid for by the City and not the riders?

I'm pretty sure in those two cities, which I've been to several times, they have a major traffic problem. Do we? No, We don't.

So what's the need for a rail? Parking downtown?

About the same as San Diego. But guess what? The direct and indirect benefits far outweigh the cost. The people of Dallas and Denver see that, and that's why they are investing billions more.

You're right they do have congestion problems, far greater than OKC. But I guarantee that had they had the foresight they would have started their systems before the traffic became stifling. Instead, they are reacting to the problem. We have a chance to be proactive for better transit and better land uses. We have the opportunity to catch it on the front end. You're right though, let's just wait till s#!t hits the fan.

True or False. This MAPS (3) is structured the SAME way as the original MAPS (1) and MAPS 4 KIDS, except the ballot has been changed because of lawsuits. This MAPS (3) has the SAME legal requirements in place as the original MAPS (1) and MAPS 4 Kids.