It does make you wonder....

.....When development planning firms have suggested building higher than 5 stories, the trust says no because it will "hide the terminal building." What are we going to do in 20 years? Have 6 or 7 5-story lots going all the way out to Amelia Earhart Drive? .....

If they are really thinking this way, it doesn't make sense. The new garage is horribly ugly (a square box made out of concrete - no landscaping, no color, no signage, architectural feature). That building already hides the terminal.

What they need now is a building/garage to hide the new garage.

Skywest and Venture - thanks for the information you provide here. It's interesting and informed.

Do you have any news on the proposed new WRWA website? (Unfortunately I think I know what your answer will be).

If they are really thinking this way, it doesn't make sense. The new garage is horribly ugly (a square box made out of concrete - no landscaping, no color, no signage, architectural feature). That building already hides the terminal.

What they need now is a building/garage to hide the new garage.

With the effort that was put into the terminals redesign it is unfortunate that they did not put more effort into studying ways to make the parking structures more integrated with the design of the terminals. There are some stunning examples of parking garages that while there is no way to hide the mass actually contribute to the vibrancy and activity that an Airport is supposed to be. There are a number of cool ways to screen the garage and add planting in strategic ways or well executed lighting that combined with a well articulated facade design can actually make the building an icon in themselves. Fortunately some of these types of design solutions can be added after the fact so there is still hope yet if they will consider it.

They updated the Terminal Guide on the site, so it's slightly newer.

Other than that, I have no clue. Off to the meeting and hopefully I can talk to someone about it after the meeting.

Delta to Detroit will go down to 2x from 3x daily, I'll bet this a seasonal pull down for winter traffic.

Delta to Detroit will go down to 2x from 3x daily, I'll bet this a seasonal pull down for winter traffic.

It should be. We'll probably see it back in April if all goes well.

Funny they still have "Delta/Champion Air" on Level 2 of the terminal map.

As well as America West, and American/US Airways.

I think it is safe to say the Airport Trust/Dept of Airports really doesn't care about the website at all. They use to have someone chime in here from time to time and she totally vanished.

Southwest is expected to make a huge announcement sometime this week, internally they are really making a lot of noise about it. All I have been told is, "You will remember where you were when you hear the news."

This probably has absolutely nothing to do with OKC, I don't know, and I'm not banking on anything, though, or keeping my hopes up. I don't even know the nature of the announcement, just that it will be big. Since Southwest is a carrier at OKC, I think it's fair to bring this up from the rumor mill. There's also a good chance that this will be a regular announcement of some sort (new station, new route, etc.), and a very good chance it is absolutely nothing.

Parking: Dir. Kranenburg has told me they monitor the situation constantly, and there is plenty of surface parking available. Demand for a 3rd 5-story is not there, etc. etc. Peak traffic right now, etc.

Website: no clue, they updated the terminal map a little bit it seems, but still not very up to date.

I agree with the others stating the obvious...the garages are very non-descript and hide the terminal. If featuring the appeal of the terminal is important, then they have failed already.

The approach to the airport has already been upgraded substantially in the last 10 years with better landscaping etc. However, once you get to the immediate approach to the terminal, it is very disappointing. The best views, unfortunately, are if you are LEAVING and happen to be taking a taxi or shuttle. It seems to me the architects and planners worked on one piece at a time and did a poor job of planning the design for the overall appeal or functionality for those actually using it.

I agree with the others stating the obvious...the garages are very non-descript and hide the terminal. If featuring the appeal of the terminal is important, then they have failed already.

The approach to the airport has already been upgraded substantially in the last 10 years with better landscaping etc. However, once you get to the immediate approach to the terminal, it is very disappointing. The best views, unfortunately, are if you are LEAVING and happen to be taking a taxi or shuttle. It seems to me the architects and planners worked on one piece at a time and did a poor job of planning the design for the overall appeal or functionality for those actually using it.

I don't disagree with your post. However, the drive to the airport is pretty much meaningless. For visitors, they want to be able to navigate through the airport, and they care most about the terminals. I get a lot of compliments from visitors about how nice the terminals are. I really doubt they care much about the drive to the airport, unless it is confusing (which, it is not). Granted, I haven't flown everywhere. But in my experience airports are not the most beautiful structures in the world. They are more function than form.

Another infamous "mega super ultra Southwest" announcement. Considering every other one they've been rumored to do has never happened...not holding my breath. About the only thing that would really get attention would be an order for the CSeries or E-Jet line. Finally start using aircraft that fit their load factors. 25% of their seats currently go unfilled, which is one of the lowest numbers in the industry. Right sizing to a smaller aircraft on certain routes would be a good thing. Not to mention it opens up the ability to launch many more markets that can't support 8 737s a day.

The only other things I can think of that would peak some interest...entering Atlanta, merging with AirTran/Alaska/Hawaiian, joining Star/OneWorld/SkyTeam, and umm....yeah that's about it. It'll probably be something lame like starting service to Wichita after that city presents them the check for $3 Million that Southwest is asking for.

Or it could be this (but they are probably still pretty far away from an official announcement): http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_generic.jsp?channel=aviationdaily&id=news/avd/2010/05/20/02.xml&headline=Analyst:

Well, this is gaining steam internally, lots of talk and hype. But most of these turn into nothing. Word is first week of June. Nothing to get too worked up about, if it happens it happens.

It is most likely the announcement of a new city -- if it's anything at all. I wonder why everyone is being told, "you'll remember where you were when you hear it."?

do you think they might start serving canadian cities? like toronto, vancouver, calgary, ect?

Intl. service, Hawaii, or a new aircraft type is all I would consider "major" news for Southwest. I think, as with most of these things, it is overstated. It is most likely a new city or an announcement to connect some of the dots.

They were planning to code-share with Westjet in Canada, but that fell through and Westjet has gone with Delta. Southwest is really reaching the limit of their original business model. Some of the new cities announced are putting them into 2nd/3rd tier markets with overlapping catchment areas. I agree its probably just a new city or some more dot connecting. Of course that usually comes with the elimination of twice as many flights that never make the press. LOL

I've been bored for the past hour, so I have some new food for you (anyone).

I've ran the numbers, here are some stats for tomorrow, which will be what I use to compute total load factors when the June stats come out (July/August).

Airline; # of departures; total number of outbound (Departing) seats

Southwest; 20; 2,740
American; 15; 1,224
Delta; 18; 1,146
United; 13 ; 926
Continental; 8; 507
Frontier; 4; 295

Total of 78 departures, and 6,838 departing seats.

Some preliminary figures for departing load factor:

Using [I]June 2008 data, which was an average month compared to the year before, seeing a 1.11% increase in departing passengers, the June 2010 load factor would be 89%.

Using June 2009 data, which was a very far below average month compared to June 2008, seeing a 7.83% decrease in departing passengers, the June 2010 load factor would be 82%.

Using somewhere in the middle, say about 175,000 departing passengers, which would equal an 86% load factor.

That is all estimated though and can't be determined in concrete form until the actual June 2010 data is available. I don't have any flight schedule info with the detail I am using (down to the exact seat) from April or May, so I can't estimate the LF's from those months.

The good news is the seats are selling, a trend is beginning to form of upward movement in passenger numbers. Also, 78 departures, there's no reason we won't break 80 departures again before the summer is over, as a few more frequencies start in July.

Continental currently flies the largest aircraft in here regularly, which is the Boeing 737-800 (157 seats), and occasionally the Boeing 737-900 (176 seats).

This might be a silly question, but I'll be flying on Frontier for the first time to Denver next month. What can I expect the flight experience to be like when it comes to on-board services and flight attendant interaction? I'm so used to flying SW that I'm really curious what's in store for me on Frontier?

I don't disagree with your post. However, the drive to the airport is pretty much meaningless. For visitors, they want to be able to navigate through the airport, and they care most about the terminals. I get a lot of compliments from visitors about how nice the terminals are. I really doubt they care much about the drive to the airport, unless it is confusing (which, it is not). Granted, I haven't flown everywhere. But in my experience airports are not the most beautiful structures in the world. They are more function than form.

Try driving into an airport like LAX. It's totally ugly and all you can see are parking garages. Even DFW isn't much better driving in.

This might be a silly question, but I'll be flying on Frontier for the first time to Denver next month. What can I expect the flight experience to be like when it comes to on-board services and flight attendant interaction? I'm so used to flying SW that I'm really curious what's in store for me on Frontier?

For July, you are either going to be on an Embraer ERJ-190 or ERJ-170 (see below). I don't think the Embraer fleet has the inflight TV service installed yet. However, I've always found them to be extremely friendly and reliable. If available, you can spend $15-25 at the airport to upgrade to "Stretch" seating at the airport. This takes you from the typical 31-32" seat pitch up to at least 36. I believe this is only available on the 190, so if you have a 170 it won't be there.

I doubt they'll offer any snack service to Denver, with it being so short, so in flight service will probably be pretty comparable to any short distance flight. I think it is really going to come down to the aircraft. The seats on the 170/190s are wider than most narrow body (737/A320/MD80) aircraft. The cabin will have probably have a bigger feel for you since it is only 2 x 2 seating, instead of 3 x 3.

190:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/4/7/0/1702074.jpg

170:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/1/8/8/1266881.jpg

wow, the 738 and 739 are bigger than the A32X family. I didn't know that even though I used to work for Boeing (although in Corporate Finance however, lol).

I had thought United's A320's were OKC's biggest regular planes and that the A320 family were a bit bigger than the next gen's. OKC never really got regular service on 757's, yet it is the BIG BOY for single aisle planes and sort of a 'status symbol' in a way that you are a major city/market.

It's so sad that the 737X killed the 757. I remember doing some LEAN studies on the 757's empennage back in the day, to make the mfg process more cost efficient. I also had a hand in redesigning the Renton factory (737X and 757). I knew the next gen would kill the 757 but I never thought it would be almost as big (and bigger than the A320 family).

Anyways, Im glad we do have some large mainliners still coming to OKC and hope we continue to grow and get to annual 4M+ pax.

The United Airbus A320 seats 140.

OKC-Chicago O'Hare on American goes from 5x to 6x daily.

Bringing the total now to 11x daily. 5 on United, 6 on American. The new flight begins August 8.

Will be interesting to see how United reacts, if at all.

looking at southwest's map the cities that jump out to me they could add are charlotte, atlanta, wichita, des moines, cincy, and south carolina (hilton head maybe?)

Try driving into an airport like LAX. It's totally ugly and all you can see are parking garages. Even DFW isn't much better driving in.

Had to drive to DFW to catch a flight to Seattle. Hadn't drove and parked down therefpr 20 years or so. Must of parked 2-4 miles or more from terminal. Of course there was a shuttle but man that place has changed

I would like to correct a post. I miscounted, we have 75 flights a day in June on Average. By the middle of August, we will be sitting at about 77 flights a day (including the new AA frequency on ORD-OKC). The number of seats for June is correct though as I counted each individual flight. AA actually has 12 flights a day, not 15, for June.

do you think they might start serving canadian cities? like toronto, vancouver, calgary, ect?

God I hope.

To get flights from Canadian cities wouldn't WRWA have to have U.S. Customs service?

They can do pre-clearance in certain Canadian airports. They clear customs in Canada before boarding.

looking at southwest's map the cities that jump out to me they could add are charlotte, atlanta, wichita, des moines, cincy, and south carolina (hilton head maybe?)

Southwest announced a couple weeks ago that they are going to start flying to harleston and Greenville-Spartanburg. Of course Southwest said it had nothing to do with it, but the state of South Carolina is giving them $15 million to launch the service.

WRA daily departure count as of June 14th:

-American 7; M80, M83; DFW
-American Eagle 4; ER4, CR7; ORD (4)
-Continental 1; 737; IAH
-Continental Express (Expressjet) 8; ER4, ER4X; IAH (7), EWR (1)
-Continental Express (Chautauqua) 1; ER4; IAH
-Delta Conx (ASA) 4; CR7; ATL
-Delta Conx (Pinnacle) 5; CR2, CR9; ATL (2) , MEM (3)
-Delta Conx (Comair) 3; CR9; DTW
-Delta Conx (Skywest) 5; CR1, CR2, CR7; SLC (2), MSP (3)
-Delta Conx (Mesaba) 1; CR9; SLC
-Frontier (Republic) 4; E170, E190; DEN
-Southwest 19; 733, 735, 73G; BWI (1), DAL (5), DEN (2), HOU (4), MCI (2), LAS (1), PHX (2), STL (2)
-United 3; 319, 320; DEN
-United Express (Go Jet) 1; CR7; ORD (1)
-United Express (Skywest) 3; CR7; DEN (1), LAX (1), ORD (1)
-United Express (Trans States) 1; ER4; ORD
-United Express (Mesa) 4; CR7; DEN (1), IAD ( 1), ORD (2)

Total: 77 daily departures

Continental is switching between the classic 737s and NGs (Next Generation 737s) this month, I saw a 735 scheduled also on the daily morning run.

As of August 16th:

-American 7; M80, M83; DFW
-American Eagle 6; ER4, ERD, CR7; ORD (6)
-Continental 1; 73G; IAH
-Continental Express (Expressjet) 9; ER4, ER4X; IAH (8), EWR (1)
-Delta Conx (ASA) 3; CR7; ATL (2), DTW (1)
-Delta Conx (Pinnacle) 2; CR2; MSP
-Delta Conx (Comair) 7; CR1/2, CR7; MEM (3), MSP (1), ATL (3)
-Delta Conx (Skywest) 3; CR7; SLC
-Delta Conx (Mesaba) 2; CR9; DTW
-Delta Conx (Shuttle America) 1; E75; ATL
-Frontier (Republic) 4; E70, E90; DEN
-Southwest 21; 733, 735, 73G; BWI (1), DAL (5), DEN (3), HOU (4), MCI (2), LAS (2), PHX (2), STL (2)
-United 1; 320; DEN
-United Express (Go Jet) 3; CR7; DEN (2), IAD (1)
-United Express (Skywest) 5; CR7; DEN (1), ORD (2), LAX (2)
-United Express (Trans States) 2; ER4; DEN (1), ORD (1)
-United Express (Expressjet) 2; ER4; ORD

Total: 79 daily departures

Interesting changes are by DL Conx, introducing the 175 on one daily to/from ATL, and CR7s to SLC. DEN has gone from all-mainline to just one mainline and some RJs now.

As always, feel free to correct me on this Skywest and/or venture if you see anything missing.

OKC-DEN is 1x mainline on UA for 14JUN, OKC-LAX is 2x OO (SkyWest) for 14JUN.

OKC-ORD is 5x on AA for 14JUN.

Are you using the airline booking engines when counting or a firm schedule? I am simply curious because our counts are off of each other by 2.

Continental is phasing out, albeit slowly, the 735s. As they bring in the 738s and 739s, they're retiring the old ones. They just recently sent the last 733 out to the desert.

I bet were going to see some turboprops, the Q400, soon from Continental Connection (Colgan). Presently, most all the Q400 service has been to/from Newark, with limited Cleveland service. Houston service has been planned for awhile, and I hear they're about to get it rolling. As much as I dislike turboprops and Colgan, OKC makes perfect sense for the Q400. They seat about 20+ more than the ERJ-145 and OKC is the ideal distance from Houston for these planes.

OKC-DEN is 1x mainline on UA for 14JUN, OKC-LAX is 2x OO (SkyWest) for 14JUN.

OKC-ORD is 5x on AA for 14JUN.

Are you using the airline booking engines when counting or a firm schedule? I am simply curious because our counts are off of each other by 2.

I am using the booking engines, since they're updated to reflect latest changes, but I check them roughly bi-weekly on a monthly basis. I did miss the June stuff though, so that could be why mine is a bit off. Thanks for the corrections though!


I bet were going to see some turboprops, the Q400, soon from Continental Connection (Colgan). Presently, most all the Q400 service has been to/from Newark, with limited Cleveland service. Houston service has been planned for awhile, and I hear they're about to get it rolling. As much as I dislike turboprops and Colgan, OKC makes perfect sense for the Q400. They seat about 20+ more than the ERJ-145 and OKC is the ideal distance from Houston for these planes.

CO also has the 73Gs, mostly which markets like OKC get most of the time. But yeah, Q400s will likely be getting stationed at IAH. I have heard the Q-variant turboprops aren't that much noisier than an ERJ or a CRJ. Better than getting Brasilias (remember ASA's runs back in the day to/from DFW?) that would cause your voice to quiver with the vibrations from the props. Anyway, OKC has already been getting Q400s when they were part of Frontier's Lynx fleet.

As far as turboprops go, they're not that noisy. They're also pretty big. They seat around what a E-170 seats. From a comfort standpoint, I still prefer the A side of an E145 or E135 (if you can find one).

Flew a Q200 about a month ago EWR-ALB. It was pretty noisy and teeth rattling.

I would recommend using a schedule that is downloadable from their website. All except WN have one, they offer instant results to your searches and all flights are shown. Sometimes the booking engines block some flights to be seen in order to help fill up the other flights. Southwest is the only one I have to use the booking engine for.

It is a .exe program, btw. TravelDesk I think is what most airlines call it.

I would recommend using a schedule that is downloadable from their website. All except WN have one, they offer instant results to your searches and all flights are shown. Sometimes the booking engines block some flights to be seen in order to help fill up the other flights. Southwest is the only one I have to use the booking engine for.

It is a .exe program, btw. TravelDesk I think is what most airlines call it.

I wish I had time while I'm at work to use my SABRE system to help with this but I'm just too busy and can't use it at home. It compiles all of the airlines together.

Yeah, there is a free tool available online, it is calles KVS Availability. It is good to see all of the flights, but I prefer my method of just using the schedules off the airline website. The program makes it where it takes me no longer than 10 minutes to find all the info I need.

^I will check it out, thanks for the info Skywest :).

Buddy of mine is reporting that both OKC-LAX flights have been pretty much sold out for the majority of the summer peak season so far. The First Class seats are also selling good.

Looks like United was right in adding the second flight.

The First Class seats are also selling good.



That's going to be the key to maintaining the service or even growing it and maybe even getting SFO eventually. Anytime the front cabin can get filled that's normally a good sign they are making money. Well...unless it is all frequent flyers getting free seats or low cost upgrades. :-P

Most of these, from what I am told, were booked F or J. So, the moneymaker seats are selling, which is good.

Hey Venture or SkyWest, if I want to suggest a new direct or nonstop route on WN should I contact someone at WRWA or at WN?

Talk to both WRWA and WN.

Might I ask, what route are you looking at? Maybe venture or I could gather some data for you to use. (data is available to WRWA and WN anyway, though)

SAT and AUS. The few direct flights they have are a good step but there should be more or even at least a non-stop. I've ran some reports but the data is choppy. My estimate is that there are 105-125 pax per day from OKC to SAT/AUS. Don't think these numbers support a non-stop but tell me what you can find will you?

Express Jet and Trans States (operating as United) both attempted these markets. They started off fairly well, but fell flat. AUS was propped up early by Dell traffic, but even then their travel department moved people to Southwest or American. SAT never really caught on that much. Now New Orleans did really well, but the operation was scrapped so XJet and TSA cut all services - even those that did well.

I still think there is a way to make the routes work, I just feel Southwest is more interested in serving the market through Dallas and never provide nonstop flights. Much like how they prefer to service Chicago through Kansas City and St. Louis here. They could definitely get a flight or two going a day, but there isn't THAT much demand pushing for it.

One thought I would like to entertain: with United's LAX service doing well, and with Delta playing around with adding previous LAX routes back into the schedule with San Fransisco, Hartford CT, Columbus OH, and Raleigh/Durham NC. I wonder what the chances are of Delta adding OKC out of LAX again?

I don't think OKC could support 3 nonstops, but if it is working for United, I wonder if Delta might try and capture some of that market again. They did use to have this service, so it wouldn't be that far out of the question, in my opinion.

If there was an Austin direct flight we might consider taking it at times instead of driving since the travel time involving multiple connecting flights the travel time (for everything involved) takes almost as long as the drive.

Met a friend at the airport, looked like they painted some of the street lines. There was a roped off section in the short term elevator building, where I presume the 'pothole' was. Everything else seemed to be running, and I didn't really notice much or any disrepair except the area that was roped off.

Met a friend at the airport, looked like they painted some of the street lines. There was a roped off section in the short term elevator building, where I presume the 'pothole' was. Everything else seemed to be running, and I didn't really notice much or any disrepair except the area that was roped off.

Did you see this at baggage claim?
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54092/x2_196c692

Yes, appeared to be at Claim number 2.

Did you see this at baggage claim?
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54092/x2_196c692

Nice. Real Nice.

OU has a really nice banner right now above the stairs/escalator down to the baggage claim. Much better than the plain red "OU has more National Merit Scholars, etc. and OU leads the Big 12 in research funding, etc." banners they used to have.

Ha, Russell Westbrook was actually on my flight to OKC from DFW on Sunday. I'm sure he got a kick out of those banners in the baggage claim, if he hadn't seen them before.

Southwest will go down to 3x daily to Houston Hobby with the new fall schedule. I'm not sure on when it will go down, but it will be before 07 JAN 2011.

Much better than the plain red "OU has more National Merit Scholars, etc. and OU leads the Big 12 in research funding, etc." banners they used to have.

LOL, I hope OU never had a banner claiming to lead the Big 12 in research funding, as it's not even remotely close to being correct nor has it been correct as far back as I can find data. However, I do recall the NMS banner with the asterisk disclosing "per capita at a public university"--perhaps there was such a similar disclaimer on the research funding banner?

LOL, I hope OU never had a banner claiming to lead the Big 12 in research funding, as it's not even remotely close to being correct nor has it been correct as far back as I can find data. However, I do recall the NMS banner with the asterisk disclosing "per capita at a public university"--perhaps there was such a similar disclaimer on the research funding banner?
OU hater.

Woo! Woo!

Delta mainline returns as of October 1st, from Atlanta.


ATL-OKC 6:50PM - 8:11PM MD-88
OKC-ATL 5:30AM - 8:47AM MD-88

Frequency remains the same at 6x, so it is a capacity increase.

OU hater.

Neh. OU likes to stretch the facts some times with all of their qualifiers. For instance OU claims 27 Rhodes scholars and in reality they have 26. "OU is the #1 University in the Nation*"

*North of the Red River, east of the Rockies, West of the Ozarks and South of the Arkansas River.

Neh. OU likes to stretch the facts some times with all of their qualifiers. For instance OU claims 27 Rhodes scholars and in reality they have 26. "OU is the #1 University in the Nation*"

*North of the Red River, east of the Rockies, West of the Ozarks and South of the Arkansas River.

You mean like this (except my example is real)


The University of Idaho enrolls the second highest number of National Merit Scholars of all public institutions in the Northwest, and has 10 times as many as all other Idaho schools combined.

They need to define "Northwest".