Frontier could be doing so much better here if they just advertised. Their commercials would get people talking. Instead, they'll be stupid and shoot themselves in the foot and not get out and spread the word. Granted, the airport has to do their part as well to help market it.

All in all...Florida has never done good from here, so I'm not shocked to hear it selling poorly.

The flight times are really bad. OMA (Omaha) got the good end of this deal. OKC sells flights best that depart in the morning, especially vacation.

A 230 departure with a 6pm arrival is not attractive for vacation spots, like MCO. You lose an entire day to travel. OMA has a 7am departure with about a noon arrival. Perfect - and guess what? Their flights to both TPA and MCO are just about sold out solid each day. Typical that OKC gets the short end of the stick.

The flight times are really bad. OMA (Omaha) got the good end of this deal. OKC sells flights best that depart in the morning, especially vacation.

A 230 departure with a 6pm arrival is not attractive for vacation spots, like MCO. You lose an entire day to travel. OMA has a 7am departure with about a noon arrival. Perfect - and guess what? Their flights to both TPA and MCO are just about sold out solid each day. Typical that OKC gets the short end of the stick.

I've been in the travel business in OKC for over 20 years and I can tell you without doubt that nonstop flights to business destinations will always be more successful than to vacation destinations which are much too seasonal. I hope the Florida flights work but I've seen that tried before and it didn't. Even with better flights times it would be difficult.

The EMB190 is a perfect jet for this route. It seats 99. Southwest attempted Saturday only in Spring of 2008. That was on 137 seat airplanes. Delta also operated this route with CRJ700's (70 seats). The CASM (Cost per Available Seat Mile) was too high for a 70 seat plane on that long of a stage length. The 737 (137 seats, which Southwest flew) has a lower CASM divided upon 137 full seats. But riding at say half the capacity, it's CASM was higher than they could make a profit on. The EMB190 in theory splits the gap. It sits at 99 seats, which is enough to lower the CASM among more seats, but not excess seats, to make it profitable. We should just give it time, but I am just about ready to write these two routes off due to Frontier and our Airport's own doing.

WRWA needs to not only court the airlines and routes, but they also need to try to put forth a little effort in advertising them. It's a win-win situation. If the route is good it will stay and make the airport look good.

Use it or lose it.

Frontier is now beginning to advertise some.

I have seen some internet ads on google, and I have seen some banner ads on local news websites (KOCO, KWTV, for example). I have also heard some radio advertising, but I only heard the last 3 seconds on 947 the Brew, while I turned my car on.

EDIT: I would also like to add, the Airport Trust approved last meeting (16 DEC 2009) to allocate $75,000 in advertising support for Frontier's new service to MCO (Orlando) only. The Trust voted in 2002 to assist new airlines/routes in local advertising support if they met the following prerequisites: Service must be at least 5x weekly; Service must be non-stop jet service to a major east or west coast city. Frontier's service fits the criteria for the MCO (Orlando) route only.

Some good news for AAR at Will Rogers. Not sure if this will lead to Allegiant doing what Reno Air did.

AAR to Perform Heavy Maintenance for Allegiant Air - Yahoo! Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AAR-to-Perform-Heavy-prnews-3843021934.html?x=0&.v=1)

AAR to Perform Heavy Maintenance for Allegiant Air

WOOD DALE, Ill., Jan. 14 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AAR (NYSE: AIR) announced today that it has signed a five-year agreement with Allegiant Air, LLC to provide maintenance and modification services for Allegiant's fleet of 46 MD-80 aircraft.

Scheduled maintenance work will be performed at AAR's MRO facilities in Miami and Oklahoma City. Additionally, AAR's Indianapolis facility will be available to support Allegiant's unscheduled maintenance requirements and Allegiant may request that AAR provide technical and engineering support services from various field locations. The contract builds upon an October 2008 agreement, under which AAR was contracted to perform maintenance on six of Allegiant's MD-80 aircraft.

"We've built an excellent working relationship with Allegiant and are pleased to be taking the MD-80 maintenance program to a new level," said Donald J. Wetekam, AAR's Group Vice President of MRO. "Our team is committed to providing reliable service with competitive turn times that will enable Allegiant to operate its fleet cost-effectively while maintaining their high levels of passenger service."

AAR leverages its diverse MRO, engineering and logistics capabilities to offer airlines customized, integrated solutions that lower costs, increase asset availability and ensure high levels of quality, safety and service. With heavy maintenance facilities located throughout the United States, AAR is the second largest independent MRO provider in North America and ranks among the top ten in the world.

A subsidiary of Allegiant Travel Company (Nasdaq: ALGT), Allegiant Air, LLC is a low-cost, high-efficiency, all-jet passenger airline focused on linking travelers in small cities to world-class leisure destinations such as Las Vegas, Phoenix, Los Angeles, Orlando, Fla., Tampa/St. Petersburg, Fla., and Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

AAR is a leading provider of products and value-added services to the worldwide aviation/aerospace industry. With facilities and sales locations around the world, AAR uses its close-to-the-customer business model to serve airline and defense customers through three operating segments: Aviation Supply Chain; Maintenance, Repair and Overhaul and Structures and Systems. More information can be found at AAR CORP. (http://www.aarcorp.com).

Frontier is now beginning to advertise some.

I have seen some internet ads on google, and I have seen some banner ads on local news websites (KOCO, KWTV, for example). I have also heard some radio advertising, but I only heard the last 3 seconds on 947 the Brew, while I turned my car on.


F9 (Frontier) is airing the Florida "Thong" commercial on TV now. Oh how I missed that one. LOL

U0VU6HrEai0

Two others of my all time favorites from them.

MJBllAa_8mk

Q6fVcHnozVg

Are these on local TV?

I saw a billboard in Midwest City with the F9 (Frontier) tails and advertising OKC-MCO (Orlando)

I saw that first commercial ("Thong") on tv tonight. It was in the 7:00 hour on NBC/KFOR during Chuck (which is an awesome show-- you should all be watching it). I cracked up. First time I'd seen one of Frontier's commercials.

use the flights and SPREAD THE WORD!. ...

I want to see OKC keep this route and establish others (even if we only get a few days a week service, so be it).

By the way, any idea what plane F9 uses for the OKC-MCO (TPA) routes and if they are dailies?

Flights are being operated by Embraer 190s flown by parent Republic Airlines. Not sure if it will be in Midwest colors or not, since the same aircraft is being use to fly a couple routes out of Omaha I believe under the Midwest brand. For those that don't know, Republic owns both Frontier and Midwest.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/9/2/4/1637429.jpg

I am going to run out to OKC and grab a pic of the E190 departing tomorrow, I doubt I will be able to catch the inbound.

Glad to hear that Frontier is advertising the route now, I think by the time the schedule ends, the flight will be doing well, and they make keep them for the summer.

Unrelated to the Frontier stuff...

What's the biggest equipment Delta (NWA) is flying out of OKC right now? What time(s)?

Unrelated to the Frontier stuff...

What's the biggest equipment Delta (NWA) is flying out of OKC right now? What time(s)?

CRJ9's...they go to ATL (Atlanta), MSP (Minneapolis), MEM (Memphis), and DTW (Detroit).

The Thunder and other NBA teams charter Delta A319's into OKC, but the times vary.

I didn't have time to hit the airport up today, going to go out Saturday or Sunday and get a pic of the Frontier (Midwest) E190's.

CRJ9's...they go to ATL (Atlanta), MSP (Minneapolis), MEM (Memphis), and DTW (Detroit).

The Thunder and other NBA teams charter Delta A319's into OKC, but the times vary.

I didn't have time to hit the airport up today, going to go out Saturday or Sunday and get a pic of the Frontier (Midwest) E190's.

Thanks. I recall flying an E175 in from Memphis last year. Maybe those aren't bigger than CRJ9s, but they feel a bit roomier... I like getting in and out a bit faster due to the smaller planes, but I don't like how small I feel and how little luggage I can bring on board. Oh well.

The December 2009 statistics are available.

For the month (DEC):
OKC [Will Rogers]
*Aircraft Operations were down 15.56% (8930 from 10,575)
*Enplaned Passengers were down 1.47% (138,131 from 140,198)
*Deplaned Passengers were down 2.00% (131,121 from 133,794)
... Resulting in a net Passenger decrease of 1.73% (269,252 from 273,992)
*Enplaned Freight was up 12.67% (2,948,823 lbs from 2,617,120 lbs)
*Deplaned Freight was up 8.17% (3,403,023 lbs from 3,146,083 lbs)
... Resulting in a new Freight increase of 10.21% (6,351,846 lbs from 5,763,203 lbs)

PWA [Wiley Post]
*Aircraft Operations were down 5.17% (4,655 from 4,909)
(Note: Commercial and Air Taxi ops were up 16.42% and 16.52%)

For the year (2009):
OKC [Will Rogers]
*Aircraft Operations were down 5.51% (129,320 from 136,856)
*Enplaned Passengers were down 8.69% (1,688,743 from 1,849,436)
*Deplaned Passengers were down 9.12% (1,695,928 from 1,866,157)
... Resulting in a net Passenger decrease of 8.91% (3,384,671 from 3,715,593)
*Enplaned Freight was down 3.92% (32,620,424 lbs from 33,950,076 lbs)
*Deplaned Freight was down 0.98% (37,723,862 lbs from 38,097,537 lbs)
... Resulting in a new Freight decrease of 2.36% (70,344,286 lbs from 72,047,613 lbs)

PWA [Wiley Post]
*Aircraft Operations were down 5.75% (69,981 from 74,251)
(Note: Commercial and Air Taxi Operations were up 61.11% and 33.55%)

---

All statistics are based on the year before, not the month before. For example: The December monthly statistics are compared to December 2008, not November 2009.

Source: FlyOKC.com http://flyokc.com/releases%5C10-06%20Email%20December%20Activity.pdf

Delta Connection will be adding additional flights between OKC and both, DTW and SLC. OKC-DTW-OKC will get one more for a total of 3 daily CRJ 900s and SLC will get one more as well for a total of two daily CRJ 100s/200s.

Source: DELTA Spring 10 N America Increase on 36 Routes AIRLINE ROUTE UPDATES (http://airlineroute.net/2010/01/31/dl-domestic-s10increase/)

May not seem like much but when you're one of just 36 North American markets getting service increases on not one but two routes I'd say it's not too shabby, given the passenger traffic decreases. That too with CRJ 900s to/from DTW.

Im taking a frontier flight in late april to Orlando so hopefully it's not axed by then

The advertising is helping the Frontier Orlando and Tampa flights. And the spring break flights seem to be selling OK. I think once this route gets some momentum they might extend the Orlando route or make it all year. With the proper flight times and advertising, the Orlando route will be a success.

We have the proper advertising now, but the flight times are still very poor for a market like OKC.

I'm loving the OKC-Tampa nonstop since I've moved to Tampa, friends and family will be able to visit easily without an annoying layover in Dallas or anywhere else.

I really hope the OKC-Tampa nonstop with Frontier succeeds.

Of course Orlando would work too, not too far from here.

I would really like to see Frontier do more here. Add a flight to connect with the Midwest flights in Milwaukee, and also provide an alternative to UA/AA into O'Hare. Perhaps additional Florida service or even Cancun.

I would really like to see Frontier do more here. Add a flight to connect with the Midwest flights in Milwaukee, and also provide an alternative to UA/AA into O'Hare. Perhaps additional Florida service or even Cancun.

Rather than competing on flights to O'Hare, competing with Southwest to Midway would be better. They could be the only nonstop there. Cancun is a little more difficult. Until OKC gets a customs and immigration facility they would have to do the same thing the charter flights from here to Cancun used to do which is make a stop in DFW to go through customs and immigration.

Rather than competing on flights to O'Hare, competing with Southwest to Midway would be better. They could be the only nonstop there. Cancun is a little more difficult. Until OKC gets a customs and immigration facility they would have to do the same thing the charter flights from here to Cancun used to do which is make a stop in DFW to go through customs and immigration.

I'm saying serve Milwaukee to compete against Chicago overall. Plus, Milwaukee makes sense being a hub that can offer connecting service on to other locations. Midway is only served from DEN for them, but does little else except offer an O&D market from OKC. Whereas Milwaukee would bring in additional connections to many cities. Route Map - Frontier Airlines (http://www.frontierairlines.com/frontier/plan-book/routes-timetables/route-map.do)

As far as CUN...I am really shocked that OKC didn't think forward some and allow at least a couple gates to be utilized for international flights to allow for charters. Granted, most cities we would have international service from offer pre-clearance...the INS seems to be having issues with Mexico from what I've been reading.

It's funny - we have the National Customs and Border Patrol Training Facility on airport, yet we do not have our own customs facility. The Airport shot itself in the foot by putting the customs facility in the proposed East Concourse. We could have done something like SMF [Sacramento] and build a small customs facility with a jetway attached and staff it only when there is an international arrival coming in.

I also think a Milwaukee flight would do good. The only problem is the low O&D on the route: 25 passengers (12.5 each way) per day on average. Assuming Frontier would get 50% of that marketshare, that is about 6 passengers each way locally. This would be a 100% connecting flight - which does work in some extreme cases: Memphis, for example, has the exact same local traffic, but spread across ~150 seats (average 3x daily CRJ-200's (50 seat Regional Jet))

What they could do is reposition our Orlando/Tampa flights; give Kansas City or Austin our current flight times as they can support the seats better at that flight time. Instead, run Milwaukee-OKC-Orlando/Tampa-OKC-Milwaukee on the E190. If the flight left Milwaukee in the early morning, it would arrive here at around 10am, and be in Orlando at about 1pm or noon. It would be back in OKC by 4 or 5pm and be back in Milwaukee at about 8PM. That would require an entire airplane for the day, but that would work better than the current setup by far.

The flight would work if the flight times were better. Omaha has the good flight times, and their flight is getting extended year round, and ours is set to end on 18APR2010 unless things turn around. Spring Break is selling good, at least, Friday the 12th is.

Salt Lake City to Oklahoma City to go to 3 flights a day beginning in April.

Source: OAG Changes 2/5/2010:AA/AM/AS/CO/DL/FL/UA/ZK — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/4699664/)

Glad we're keeping Frontier service to Denver....it was announced today that Tulsa will lose theirs. See story: Republic Airways Announces Fleet Simplification Plan - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/republic-airways-announces-fleet-simplification-plan-2010-02-04?reflink=MW_news_stmp)

Glad we're keeping Frontier service to Denver....it was announced today that Tulsa will lose theirs. See story: Republic Airways Announces Fleet Simplification Plan - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/republic-airways-announces-fleet-simplification-plan-2010-02-04?reflink=MW_news_stmp)

Denver is our best served city based on competition with us now having United, Frontier, and Southwest flying nonstop. Airfare into Denver used to be very high but has become quite reasonable in the last few years.

Frontier seems to have an off/on relationship with TUL. Looks like it's off again.

Denver is our best served city based on competition with us now having United, Frontier, and Southwest flying nonstop. Airfare into Denver used to be very high but has become quite reasonable in the last few years.

Yes which means no airline is making money on them now because fares are too low to meet the illogical and stupidly unrealistic demands of the flying public, so we'll probably see more cut backs eventually. So nice of Southwest to dump more capacity in a market that didn't really need it. :-P

Frontier seems to have an off/on relationship with TUL. Looks like it's off again.

Tulsa has never warmed up to Frontier and honestly, airlines need to get away from this need to serve both cities in the state. Serve the large market, and if people are attracted to the service, let them make the drive. We have people driving to Dallas and Wichita for lower fares and nonstop service to certain markets...concentrating on OKC vs. TUL should be a priority for any new entrant into the Oklahoma market.

Now on the flip side. We get larger aircraft, perhaps. If we get the Embraer 170s, it'll be a wash...I think the Dash 8 Q400s seat more or just the same. If they do the 190s which current make the Florida runs, then all the better.

Yes which means no airline is making money on them now because fares are too low to meet the illogical and stupidly unrealistic demands of the flying public, so we'll probably see more cut backs eventually. So nice of Southwest to dump more capacity in a market that didn't really need it. :-P

So the public is illogical and has stupid unrealistic demands? Well that is the reality of any business that deals with the public and it's always going to be that way. The business just has to adjust and deal with it. Having minimum airfares of $500.00 roundtrip to Denver was stupid and unrealistic a few ago too. When the airlines don't have competition they are going to have price points that in some cases could be considered gouging the public. Airlines are always going to have to adjust fares and capacity depending on competition. Some markets are always going to be overpriced and some are going to be underpriced. I don't think anyone would advocate that we go back to the days when the government controlled the prices that airlines could charge.

So the public is illogical and has stupid unrealistic demands? Well that is the reality of any business that deals with the public and it's always going to be that way. The business just has to adjust and deal with it. Having minimum airfares of $500.00 roundtrip to Denver was stupid and unrealistic a few ago too. When the airlines don't have competition they are going to have price points that in some cases could be considered gouging the public. Airlines are always going to have to adjust fares and capacity depending on competition. Some markets are always going to be overpriced and some are going to be underpriced. I don't think anyone would advocate that we go back to the days when the government controlled the prices that airlines could charge.

I guess I look at it this way. For the past couple of years Southwest was not making money operationally except for the fuel hedging part of their business. Yet, they were using this advantage to drive air fares down by competitors. Not a big deal, its business...that's how it works. However, I agree the business has to adjust just like the passengers must be prepared to actually pay for the cost of travel. If anyone thinks a $59 or 79 fare actually pays for most of these one way flights, they are stupid. It is time to suck it up and pay the $150+ that it actually costs. In the long run then, this will drive demand down and allow more consolidation to occur in the industry - which is required. I think we are seeing a happy medium starting to occur right now though with bag and other ancillary fees. US Airways reported about $500M in income from these, which is similar to every other major. Southwest will likely finally give in over the next year or two as they are losing a massive amount of revenue while facing a continued rise in labor costs (thanks to the work for getting older and unions getting stronger).

Just traveled to Las Vegas and back the other day which was only my second time to fly since 2001. It was unpleasant enough for me that I plan to avoid air travel period.

I fly a lot for business and some for pleasure. I think that I've lowered my expectations which has helped decrease stress.

I still dream of a non-stop flight from OKC to DCA - sigh - nice dream.

That would be nice, but with Southwest on Baltimore and United on Dulles, it might be a long shot. But maybe someone will try it. I would like to see Delta announce JFK to OKC and United announce San Francisco to OKC. Both are extremely possible with the current passenger numbers.

About our only shot at DCA would have been US Airways, but I doubt we'll ever see them back in OKC.

Southwest will likely finally give in over the next year or two as they are losing a massive amount of revenue while facing a continued rise in labor costs (thanks to the work for getting older and unions getting stronger).

You could be right but I doubt it. I just read an article about Southwest being very pleased with their passenger count and revenue being up substantially. They attibuted the rise in large part to their policy of no baggage fees

Southwest must be doing something right (true they came out ahead w/fuel deals as mentioned earlier). But also read they operate without going into debt? While other airlines are higher priced they have to keep adding on more and more extra charges and still are struggling to make a profit. Essentially, if SW flies there, thats the airline I am going to take without question.

Southwest must be doing something right (true they came out ahead w/fuel deals as mentioned earlier). But also read they operate without going into debt? While other airlines are higher priced they have to keep adding on more and more extra charges and still are struggling to make a profit. Essentially, if SW flies there, thats the airline I am going to take without question.

While I appreciate what Southwest does in terms of prices and competition, I really don't like flying with them. The idea of almost fighting for seat assignments like musical chairs doesn't appeal to me.

Southwest must be doing something right (true they came out ahead w/fuel deals as mentioned earlier). But also read they operate without going into debt? While other airlines are higher priced they have to keep adding on more and more extra charges and still are struggling to make a profit. Essentially, if SW flies there, thats the airline I am going to take without question.

Umm what? Southwest has $3.3B in debt as of the end of 2009. Not that this is bad though, but they are in debt like any other airline. Operating margins continue to slide and their expenses increase. Their CASM (cost per available seat mile) is at 10.29 cents. Roughly 2 cents higher than companies like Frontier, and 1 cent lower than US Airways. So they are in the situation like most long standing airline of having their costs continue to rise, while newer airlines will be able force some pricing pressure.

However, like LJ stated - it is the product that Southwest offers that isn't attractive. They may have decent fares, they are *NOT* the lowest fare airline in the country (at times the highest on certain routes), but their in cabin service is barren. No you don't have to pay for bags, but you also have no in flight entertainment, reserved seat, etc. I'm sorry, I don't like waiting in line trying to deal with every redneck that chose to fly that day. My preferred company has been Frontier this past few years (yes, at the expense of my medallion level status with Delta) and I have no desire to change. The crews are great, the product is awesome compared to other airlines, and I've never had a problem with a flight. Yes I've dealt with delays, I've done that at any airline...but I always get where I'm going. My last trip on Southwest...my bag came out damaged and the crews were more interested in joking around than dealing with doing their job.

I also don't really care for the company that couldn't really care less for the market and provide nonstop markets that smaller cities have.

Umm what? Southwest has $3.3B in debt as of the end of 2009. Not that this is bad though, but they are in debt like any other airline. ...

Don't know what their current status is but that is what I read a few years ago (and I did have a ?). It was shortly after 9/11 and how the major airlines were all neck deep in debt and in severe danger of all going bankrupt. Guess the debt was manageable until people stopped flying.

How does their $3.3B debt compare with the other airlines (presuming they didn't discharge it through bankruptcy reorganization)?

If assigned seats and inflight entertainment are important to you, then by all means, fly those airlines that provide that. Oh, by the way, don't you have to pay extra for the entertainment? I understand that with SW it isn't even an add-on option but there are other options available to passengers (BYOE).

Similar to inflight meals. SW doesn't serve or offer them, but nothing stopping you from bringing your own snacks and meals. Are there any majors that offer meals that aren't charging extra for them too? Remember reading a while back, just as charging extra for baggage, they were charging for meals now too. Point is many things that used to be "free" or included are now additional charges.

@venture79

Southwest is not a public service providing service everywhere. They operate on profits versus expenses, if OKC is not a city that can be expanded much, I don't see why they WOULD add more routes. OKC is not a major city by any means, and the bigger cities with a more guaranteed passenger flow will obviously get the service. OKC and other cities like us are very high risk, and as we have seen time and time again, we have service we cannot sustain.

Look at the relatively high O/D (100 or more passengers, 50% each way) markets out of OKC that are not currently served nonstop.
Seattle WA, Sacramento CA, San Diego CA, Oakland (Bay Area) CA, San Antonio/Austin TX, Nashville TN, Philadelphia PA, Santa Ana CA.

All of those are served just fine with one stops or with one connection. The routes are not strong enough to support non-stop service, with the exception of San Diego and San Francisco. Even then, those two routes would be risky, even trying to fill seats on 70 seat jets. Southwest flies 137 seats each flight, and only a handful of the above cities have 137 passengers between the two. Add in other airlines offering connections, and you are looking at maybe 30 people or 40 people per plane at the best on the nonstop flight.

Let's fill our current seats before we beg for more.

Southwest is not at fault. Nor any other airline. No one seems to understand we have a limited amount of people flying out of OKC each day, and we can only support the service we have now. We are not filling flights up right now, what makes you think we can support a major, forget that, a MINOR OKC expansion?

When the people begin to fly more, we will see our service increase. It's not a right to have air service, it is a privilege, and we are given more than we can handle right now.

With that said, I do think OKC will be in positive numbers by the end of this year if the current developing trend continues. Maybe by 2011 we'll have a few new cities? Right now, it's a risky move to add new service to OKC. Frontier is paying for that now, they took a risk on OKC with Florida, and they are losing on that. I heavily doubt this service will continue past April 18th.

With that said, I do think OKC will be in positive numbers by the end of this year if the current developing trend continues. Maybe by 2011 we'll have a few new cities? Right now, it's a risky move to add new service to OKC. Frontier is paying for that now, they took a risk on OKC with Florida, and they are losing on that. I heavily doubt this service will continue past April 18th.

I clipped most of your post so the reply wasn't miles long. To sum it up, I think you took my post the wrong way or I wasn't clear enough. Through my involvement with the industry, on and off for the last 12 years - and not as a ramp rat, I don't disagree with anything you have said. I look at the way Southwest has approached the market over the last 10 years. Every move they have made was reactionary and never proactive to growing the market. Las Vegas - to knock out Allegiant and US Airways...Baltimore - because United is doing it...Denver - to try to kill Frontier. If we saw Allegiant follow through and begin OKC-Sanford (Orlando) service, before they chose to just leave the market completely, we would probably have Southwest in the market also. That is, if the market was sustainable.

This brings me to the part I did quote. Oklahoma City is not a Florida market. Never has been, probably never will be. Allegiant was going to do 2-3 flights a week to Sanford, they dropped it. Delta had some RJs flying down there, they dumped it (along with most of the Orlando O&D service), and now Frontier is trying. It is a waste of time. There are other markets that should be look at first.

We saw relative success with TSA's service to New Orleans, but San Antonio was a dud. ExpressJet's Austin service was good at first, and then fell apart...San Antonio had the same result again. So where can we grow? I think any place in Texas is dead because WN or AA will win the battle with one stops through Dallas. We've seen relative weakness to the Northeast, but PHL or BOS may be an option (I would go for PHL to connect into US's network). CLT may be an option going to the Southeast to tie into a network again, much like PHL. To the west, not really much. Seattle is about the only thing that stands out, and that would require Alaska to show interest here.

Some of these markets though require selling the route as OKC being the destination, not origin. If US jumps out of Star and goes to One World, there could be an opportunity to get them in here to add OKC as a spoke to their network. My opinion, CLT or PHL would have worked much better than Phoenix since the US West market just needs to be dissolved and refocus on their eastern strength - but that's for another time to debate. LOL Alaska would be another where OKC is a good opportunity to be a spoke. Considering the strength of the aviation industry in OKC, and Oklahoma in general, 1 daily flight would probably be a good addition.

Other than that...only one other word I can think off to add into OKC. AirTran.

OKC is just in grid lock because of the availability of one stops now. We have an advantage on getting Seattle, though, because we do a large amount of the maintenance for Alaska in OKC. A weekly flight would definitely work just for the maintenance flights, and later it probably would make it more than weekly.

I think Florida COULD have worked this time, if the flight times were proper. But the poor flight times are a major reason these flights are arriving and departing with less than 30 people on them.

OKC is just in grid lock because of the availability of one stops now. We have an advantage on getting Seattle, though, because we do a large amount of the maintenance for Alaska in OKC. A weekly flight would definitely work just for the maintenance flights, and later it probably would make it more than weekly.

I think Florida COULD have worked this time, if the flight times were proper. But the poor flight times are a major reason these flights are arriving and departing with less than 30 people on them.

I'm not sure if Alaska could make the station work with just one weekly flight. RenoAir started out in similar fashion, and was able to get up to 2-3 daily flights to Las Vegas. Then AA bought them and gutted everything like they normally do. LOL

I do agree that Omaha got the better end of the deal with their flight times.

I think Florida COULD have worked this time, if the flight times were proper. But the poor flight times are a major reason these flights are arriving and departing with less than 30 people on them.

Didn't these flights just begin January 17th? It seems a bit early to declare them dead. But then again, I don't have the experience either of you do in the industry.

My point is they've hardly advertised them.

Are there any majors that offer meals that aren't charging extra for them too?

Continental does.

Didn't these flights just begin January 17th? It seems a bit early to declare them dead. But then again, I don't have the experience either of you do in the industry.

My point is they've hardly advertised them.

That is a big problem. The advertising didn't start until after they launched. It should have been going crazy to lead up to launch. Of course I've never seen the airport authority really go out of their way to promote services.

Ok, so let me say this, and keep in mind I have background on aviation besides JROTC and flying at least once a month, if the airlines are failing so much, why doesn't SW just send 50 flights a day to Dallas and United send 50 to Chicago and call it a day since they don't seem to fill plays 100% of the time. It feels like that what they do any more anyway. I am not being cynical here, but I mean wtf, its frustrating getting good air service here. Especially with the crappy service I get from AA.

I would like to see a international flight to London in my life time to see my family personally(I can wish right?), what is the situation with the phase 3 expansion with a customs gate, I know its on hold, but is there any new updates?

I doubt we'll ever see London here, simply due to the lack of demand between the industries based here and the banking center in London. I do think that if we get the east concourse done with a customs ready gate - we could see AeroMexico or Mexicana arrive.

I'm trying to understand the earlier part of your comment which I believe is to the capacity dumping airlines tend to do. This is a huge problem with the industry and there needs to be more consolidation. However, some airlines keep bucking the trend. Southwest, opened their massive Denver base to try to kill off a competitor. This is reflected in their load factors which rank them 28th in the industry right now among airlines...74.3% of their seats are filled. In comparison to another major airline, Delta - which is now the largest in the US/world...filled 84.8% of its seats (still ranked 5th overall). One of the best things that could happen right now would be for Southwest or other airlines that have over 25% of their capacity going unused, to either cut back or go under.

If it were needed, it wouldn't be that difficult to build a small customs facility at one of the existing gates. Nashville has a very small one that stays locked up except when the Air Canada flight(s) arrive. If one was needed here, it could be very small since it'd be a regional jet anyway.

I have to give Southwest credit for a couple of things. One, they have done a wonderful job giving the "appearance" of being cheaper than everyone else. While they are generally cheaper than the legacies for walk up fares, that's about it.

Secondly, they have done a great job marketing the no bag fee.

That been said, I'll do just about anything to avoid flying them. No need to go through the list why, since most of the reasons have already been posted. My biggest reason for not flying with them is the lack of a developed elite status. As much time as I spend in air, these perks (Upgrades, priority baggage handling, upgrades, mileage bonuses, lounge access, and did I mention upgrades) are what makes air travel bearable. I'll be the first to say the benes aren't what they used to be, but it still beats being herded like cattle and making two stops on a "Direct Flight".

A direct flight actually is a flight that makes one or more stops, nonstop flight is one that doesn't make any.

I've flown Southwest multiple times now, and feel it's the best domestic airline out there. This, coming from a person who has flown lots domestically and internationally, on airlines like LH, AF, DL, CO, United Express, etc. I'd rather pay a higher fare then get nickled and dimed with baggage fees, paying for onboard food etc. when I can check bags for free, take whatever food I want onboard and so on. Southwest is a no-nonsense airline, and it's efficient. It is not an international airline (yet), so it doesn't make sense for it cost-wise to have an elite status program.

And I'll never buy the "herded like cattle" argument. You can check-in online early or have someone do it for you, and get a A boarding pass. Even before that system was augmented, WN never treated passengers like cattle. I've seen much worse on international carriers, believe me. I have first-hand experience.

A direct flight actually is a flight that makes one or more stops, nonstop flight is one that doesn't make any.

I've flown Southwest multiple times now, and feel it's the best domestic airline out there. This, coming from a person who has flown lots domestically and internationally, on airlines like LH, AF, DL, CO, United Express, etc. I'd rather pay a higher fare then get nickled and dimed with baggage fees, paying for onboard food etc. when I can check bags for free, take whatever food I want onboard and so on. Southwest is a no-nonsense airline, and it's efficient. It is not an international airline (yet), so it doesn't make sense for it cost-wise to have an elite status program.

And I'll never buy the "herded like cattle" argument. You can check-in online early or have someone do it for you, and get a A boarding pass. Even before that system was augmented, WN never treated passengers like cattle. I've seen much worse on international carriers, believe me. I have first-hand experience.

Different strokes for different folks. Even though personally, I am exempt from them, I think bag fees are pretty ridiculous as well. Now the overheads are way too crowded, or everyone gate checks their bags.

BTW a good example of a direct/through flight with two stops is WN 512. ORF-BNA-MCI-OKC.

Being international airline doesn't mean you can't have a good elite program. Both Air Tran and Frontier have nice programs. Air Tran provides for complimentary upgrades. Frontier gives you access to their premium seats, Direct TV, and complimentary (adult)drinks.

has anyone heard if the frontier flight to orlando will be extended in to may?

@traemac: I would say it is highly unlikely to severely improbable.

On a different note, @venture: A 1x weekly flight could work because I believe they could contract their ground services and above wing to say, American or Delta, for that one flight. It would get their foot in the door and would probably eventually lead to a daily flight or two. An interesting statistic: OKC-Seattle has more local (O/D) demand than Atlanta. The economics of running a Boeing 737 versus a handful of CRJ's though would be a debatable topic, which I don't want to get into. Seattle could work because of connecting traffic to support the relatively strong local demand.

About US Airways, Charlotte could work on a Regional Jet. OKC-Memphis is a very low O/D (local traffic) route, with the strong majority of passengers connecting to different flights. Charlotte could work given a good connection base and an early morning departure from here. Philadelphia could work on RJ's also and so could DCA (Washington Reagan). Those three destinations could work on US Airways if the flights were timed correctly to join the connections. With US Airways' balance sheet and the shakiness of the economy, I doubt we'll see them enter again, for the short term foreseeable future. But the opportunity is there if they wanted to gamble on OKC.

About AirTran, I do not see anywhere they could enter. They could attempt Orlando with better flight times and advertising, as well as offer connections - they would probably kill Frontier on the route (even the Frontier is already bleeding red ink on the route). Baltimore to compete with Southwest, but I don't see that one either. Atlanta; Delta would throw a fit and we'd have a bloodbath on the route: probably capacity dumping on Delta's side. Is that good or bad? You decide.

I would like to see Southwest try Oakland, but I have a good feeling United will beat them to the idea with a non-stop to San Francisco. Midway might be a possibility in the future on Southwest, it would give United and American a run for their money.

On a different note, @venture: A 1x weekly flight could work because I believe they could contract their ground services and above wing to say, American or Delta, for that one flight.

I would imagine Alaska would outsource above and under wing here regardless...I don't see a service going above 2 flights a day. America West had CO handle things for awhile with 2-3 daily flights. I just don't see Alaska starting the route with just 1 weekly flight as it would provide no benefit to the business passenger. Sure they could code-share back on just about anyone, but it would be little value to start the route with any less than a single daily flight.


About US Airways, Charlotte could work on a Regional Jet. OKC-Memphis is a very low O/D (local traffic) route, with the strong majority of passengers connecting to different flights. Charlotte could work given a good connection base and an early morning departure from here. Philadelphia could work on RJ's also and so could DCA (Washington Reagan). Those three destinations could work on US Airways if the flights were timed correctly to join the connections. With US Airways' balance sheet and the shakiness of the economy, I doubt we'll see them enter again, for the short term foreseeable future. But the opportunity is there if they wanted to gamble on OKC.

I would probably expect something with Republic ERJ-170s on any of those routes if they happen. I don't think US Airways' balance sheet has anything to do with it, they ended the year with 2.5 billion in cash and are actually pretty stable. They need to get out of Las Vegas and Phoenix though and go back to serving the high yield traffic they have back east.


About AirTran, I do not see anywhere they could enter. They could attempt Orlando with better flight times and advertising, as well as offer connections - they would probably kill Frontier on the route (even the Frontier is already bleeding red ink on the route). Baltimore to compete with Southwest, but I don't see that one either. Atlanta; Delta would throw a fit and we'd have a bloodbath on the route: probably capacity dumping on Delta's side. Is that good or bad? You decide.

Considering their relationship with Frontier, which is getting closer and closer...I doubt they'll want to compete against them. However, they have no fear of Delta and will go after them on the Atlanta market. Sure, Delta can capacity dump all the way...but that usually screws them over in the long run.


I would like to see Southwest try Oakland, but I have a good feeling United will beat them to the idea with a non-stop to San Francisco. Midway might be a possibility in the future on Southwest, it would give United and American a run for their money.

I don't see Southwest trying anything else further west from here. They'll serve the west coast through Denver and Phoenix.

I still like Frontier/Midwest to Milwaukee, AirTran to Atlanta, and US Airways to either Charlotte or Philly.

NewsOK (http://newsok.com/airports-take-weather-hit/article/3440149)

According to the article, Frontier is reporting up to 90% Load Factor for some of the Orlando and Tampa flights. I will try to peak at the Frontier gate sometime next week when they are boarding and deplaning and try to get a passenger count from my naked eye.

A couple weeks ago I was walking by the bag claim when a Tampa flight arrived and I counted about 15 or 20 bags and maybe 25 people there to pick them off the belt. Not a full description of what was on the flight because some people carry-on or are on one night business trips and whatnot.

Last Sunday I was at the United gate when they boarded the Tampa flight. GA mentioned it was a full flight. (Whatever that's worth.)

I've been pricing trips recently, and some where will over $500 RT on some days...so they are packing a few flights it seems.

The January performance was absolutely horrible. I am very glad to see that it is turning around and that I may in fact be be proven wrong.

Next week I'll look around if I can find a few minutes off around that time.