I speak for all the guys working as Valets, you think its easy, running in 100 degree weather so you can impress your date, or freezing cold***Come on guys, you wanna act like the big boys, then tip like the big boys!

I have worked at several Valet companies in the city-coming from the West Cost area---YOU GUYS ARE CHEAP______! A dollar tip, come on!!!!

Then its Hilarious when you want us to park it close and give a $5.00 tip, PLEASE!!!!!

Get Real Oklahoma!!!!

Before anybody brings this up---YES, there are some crapy valets out there but give me a break, tip the good ones!!!!!!

I had to valet cars at my summer job in high school. Valeting cars IS extraordinarily easy and mindless work, which is why I don't tip much. Why do you deserve $5+ for jogging to a car, parking it, and retrieving it later? What in that sequence of actions is deserving of a "good tip" by your standards?

"You wanna act like the big boys, tip like the big boys"--LOL. I'm gonna have to share that one with my colleagues.

How much an hour do you make? How many cars an hour do you valet? And how much is the average tip?

Just curious.

Calling people from OK cheap won't win you any fans on this site. If you want big tips why don't you go back to the West Coast.

I live on the West Coast and I tip Valets $1-$3 and that seems to be typical.

Considering you can be tipped 20 times in an hour, that's darn good money for completely unskilled and not very difficult work.

No dude not typical at all, maybe at a medical clinic

Yes, I'm sure the typical valet in California is making over a hundred dollars an hour in tips.

I speak for all the guys working as Valets, you think its easy, running in 100 degree weather so you can impress your date, or freezing cold***Come on guys, you wanna act like the big boys, then tip like the big boys!


Ah yes, and with a screenname "millionsrmine" you're probably not acting like a "big boy" either.......:LolLolLol

FYI.. the wealthy don't act wealthy, the wannabees act as if. Check out the books The Millionaire Next Door, Secrets of The Millionaire Mind or Total Money Makeover.

LOL!!!!!!


Its beyond what you can comprehend

Thanks to this thread, you've pretty well turned me off from valet parking completely. No offense, I think I'll just walk from now on.

mmm exercise. can't go wrong with that.

OK, let's start over...the goober makes a good point. A couple of bucks instead of one won't break anybody's bank. We use valets for our convenience and they do work for their money. I don't see many homeless people who can't afford a tip using valet parking. Recognize that most valets, like wait staff, are paid minimum wage if not even less, with the hope of getting more by doing an excellent job and receiving tips.

Doesn't that sound reasonable? Now millionsrmine - grow up and don't cry so much.

What defines an excellent job as a valet?

My wife worked at Red Lobster in Shawnee and I was dumbfounded at how poorly Oklahomans tip. Not to mention they were very needy and bossy and not only treated her but all servers there like crap. I have witnessed the rudeness and belittlement almost every time I go to eat, I just don't get it...? Now not to say every okie is socially retarded because there were a few rare exceptions were people over tipped her by quite a bit making it somewhat worth while, but most were leaving 3 dollar tips on $80 tabs after making her run her ass off to serve them.

They should maybe teach a social etiquette class in high school along with the "How not to get pregnant at 15" class, and the "How not to tailgate" class.

Tipping is an interesting concept. While we were in Australia, tipping was not expected. We were told they paid their wait staff an adequate wage, therefore tipping has never been an issue there.

Australia has a "living wage" law. Folks here say it causes job losses, price increases et al, but OZ is not even in recession right now and their government is solvent. Works for them - why not here?

A valet makes at least $7-$8/hr. That's enough by my standards. I'll tip $1.00 max. You are expected to park a car and return it. That is your job. Your employer, who I pay $5+ to is paying you to do that job. Why should I have to pay your employer and then you also? That's absurd. You are not a waiter, you do not make $2.15/hr. Most unskilled wages are low. Don't like it? Get a better job.

If you think you can make a career out of valeting, you're probably mistaken.

Works for them - why not here?

Mainly because the government shouldn't be telling businesses how to run. Actually, it's kind of funny, the government telling a business how to run, seeing the well oiled machine that is our government. Pfff.

Yeah, the unregulated businesses that got us in the current financial crisis are pretty "well oiled" too. But, I guess that's a good thing considering how may people they screwed.

Mainly because the government shouldn't be telling businesses how to run. Actually, it's kind of funny, the government telling a business how to run, seeing the well oiled machine that is our government. Pfff.

But why is Australia not even in recession and we are econmically approaching dire straits? I suggest they are far more free than we are because they understand the place of government and that some regulation is in order. Here, both sides talk alot of trash, fight each other and acomplish nothing, and then reelect the same legislators term after term. In Australia, I have seen the people completely boot out a government that displeased them. In other words, they don't keep recycling the same politicians with the same failed ideas.

I suggest that we, the citizens of this country, are resopnsible for our own demise because we cannot sit down and discuss the issue rationally together and solve the problem. The problem is the federal legislature who are beholden to the various monied interests that fund their reelection campaigns. We the people, by the power of our vote, could change this, but we would rather fight the Republicans, or fight the Democrats, and we collectively allow ourselves to be influenced by these same monied interests that influence our legislators instead of thinking for ourselves.

I've always found tipping to be odd. Why is it my responsibility to pay for the food and the servers wages? And yes, I've worked in the food industry when I was younger. I depended on tips, but only because its considered the norm for the employer to pay virtually nothing.

I tip, but the amount just depends on the venue, time of day and the quality of the service. Like it or not, I do not normally tip 20% at breakfast or lunch and don't tip 20% other times unless the service is exceptional.

As for valets - I don't use them unless there is no other reasonable option. If I do, I find a $1-$2 tip acceptable.

Additionally, I really get annoyed when people complain about the customers they have chosen to serve. Its like coming face to face with a customer service agent who hates customers - it just makes no sense - get a different job already.

Yeah, the unregulated businesses that got us in the current financial crisis are pretty "well oiled" too. But, I guess that's a good thing considering how may people they screwed.

Unregulated?

Choosing a Business Location | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/start/business-location/)

Small Business Assistance and Training | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/start/assistance.html)

Steps to Registering a Business | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/register/steps-to-register.html)

Business Incorporation | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/register/incorporation/)

Small Business Taxes | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/)

Business Income Taxes | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/business-income/)

Employer Identification Number EIN | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/registration.html)

Employment Taxes | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/employment.html)

Filing and Paying Small Business Taxes | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/filing.html)

Managing Small Business Taxes | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/finance/taxes/managing.html)

Advertising Law | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/advertising-law/)

Employment and Labor Laws | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/employment/)

Environmental Regulations | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/environmental-regulations/)

Business Finance Law | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/finance/)

Privacy Laws | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/privacy/)

Uniform Commercial Code UCC | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/business-law/ucc/)

Business Licenses and Permits | Business.gov (http://www.business.gov/register/licenses-and-permits/)

And this is just a fraction of the rules and regulations that the government imposes on businesses.

Unregulated? Pff...

I've always found tipping to be odd..

To reply to the original post; I avoid valet parking like the plague. Which all started while staying at the Hyatt in Dallas one year. I spent 5 dollars every time my car was parked and every time it was retrieved. After coming and going all week I'd spent way to much on paying some kids to drive my car 100 yards. So paying for valets (I love walking) isnt my cup of tea. But its funny how some people complain about tipping a kid $3-5 for parking their $30-40,000 suv safely have no problem tipping a kid $2 for bringing their $3 sonic burger 20 feet to their car without damaging it. I dont think I'll ever understand tipping.

Tipping is an interesting concept. While we were in Australia, tipping was not expected. We were told they paid their wait staff an adequate wage, therefore tipping has never been an issue there.
I think it's stupid, there should not be a different pay scale based off paying over and above whatever the bill is, with two classes of a minimum wage and a much lower one for "regularly tipped" employees. There should just be a rate of pay and no tipping. That being said I tend to tip higher because I have known many in the restaurant and other service oriented businesses and know just how little many pay.

In Japan tipping means the opposite of what it does here, if you "tip" someone it is considered a reminder that they did not perform service up to your standards.

Luke,

You're right! My eyes have been opened. I now see that it was all that regulation that forced AIG to screw the little guy. Pff...

In reality Luke, the regulations left to many loopholes allowing poor business practices. That's what ultimately resulted in the economic meltdown. Pff...

I wouldn't necessarily call for more regulations, just smarter ones that prevent the excesses that caused our current problems. Pff...

DISCLAIMER: Luke, sorry about all the "Pff's", but I know how much you like them.

I can see both sides. Employers pay a minimum of $2.15 in doing so, the employee must then perform exceptional service to get more money. In this manner, you get better customer service because the server is running around like a trained monkey (yes i've been a server) to fulfill your every dining need. In doing this, the server hopes to get monetary compensation. The employer sees it as having an employee that will give great customer service and provide a better dining experience, and why? because the servers income depends on it.

From a servers perspective, we expected a little monetary compensation for running to get your drink refilled for the 4th time without you asking for it. Weather you drank it or not, we wanted to make sure you were taken care of. We ask how your meal is, and if you need anything else. We check in on you enough that you feel you're being taken care of but not too much as to bother you while conversing over a meal. We do this not only to provide a pleasing dining experience at that particular restaurant, but to get a little extra money. Most of us are college students trying to pay our way out of school, (especially if you come from a family like mine who makes just enough money to not have any money for college, but too much that you can't get financial aide.) Or we're young parents who are trying to provide for our kids. Its a job where we can earn a regular days pay while still being able to take care of children because you cant live on a single income in a family and you can't afford the daycare so you have to take care of the kiddos while the other parent is working as well. I don't have kids, but I know plenty of servers who do, and they're just hoping for a little extra cash to pay the bills and provide better for their children.

I must say, if you've never been a server, go be one. It's a very humbling experience and great exercise to boot.

On the other hand, if you are a terrible server making 2.15 an hour and you make less per hour than minimum wage, you're employer must make up for that difference. Not to mention, do you know how much a restaurant cook is payed? Even the dish washer can make better money than a server sometimes.

anyways... rant rant rant.

In Japan tipping means the opposite of what it does here, if you "tip" someone it is considered a reminder that they did not perform service up to your standards.

Let me get this straight. If I go to a restaurant in Japan and tip my waitperson, I am in essence, sending them a message that their service was not up to par? WoW! That's quite the twist of logic.

Folks, it's THE CUSTOM to tip. Stop being such tight*sses. If you are going where there are valets, you can afford it. Problem solved.

But its funny how some people complain about tipping a kid $3-5 for parking their $30-40,000 suv safely have no problem tipping a kid $2 for bringing their $3 sonic burger 20 feet to their car without damaging it. I dont think I'll ever understand tipping.

I don't tip Sonic kids more than the change leftover. And I don't tip the valet more than a dollar unless something extraordinary warrants it.

I rarely valet park unless I am at Remington or the Grand Casino in Shawnee, and even then only if I have a family member with me that is a senior citizen.

If Oklahoman's are too cheap for the OP, then I suggest getting another job where you earn what you think you are worth or are not made to feel so deprived.

I don't tip Sonic kids more than the change leftover.

Awww come on man! My 17 YO daughter car hops at Sonic...break out your wallet, LOL! :poke:

Awww come on man! My 17 YO daughter car hops at Sonic...break out your wallet, LOL! :poke:

I always tip - husband and son are both former Sonic employees.

Let me get this straight. If I go to a restaurant in Japan and tip my waitperson, I am in essence, sending them a message that their service was not up to par? WoW! That's quite the twist of logic.
Yep, we were instructed not to tip when we worked there.


International Tipping Etiquette (http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A640018)
Japan - Don't.



Awww come on man! My 17 YO daughter car hops at Sonic...break out your wallet, LOL! :poke:

I always tip - husband and son are both former Sonic employees.
My sister was at well.

I too am a former sonic employee... geez, it's such a cliche to have worked at some of these places...

I too kinda think that $1 for a valet is a little pathetic. If you are able to go to an establishment that offers valet, then you should be able to give a couple extra dollars. $1 is ok but $3 will break the bank? I don't get it.

Every tipping guide I've ever seen specifies $1.00 for valet services is acceptable.

Every tipping guide I've ever seen specifies $1.00 for valet services is acceptable.

Hey MT...Have you read anything concerning the history of tipping? Being lazy here, as I could google it, but just curious since you are a well read, scholarly guy.

A downtown hotel in a large city (D.C., LA, Houston, SF) will charge $25-30 per day just to park your car and require you to leave your keys, plus we're supposed to give up an extra $3 each time we want our car? Nyet- not ever for mandatory valet parking. If for some reason I choose to use valet parking (rare) - sure. I'd rather drive and park my own vehicle and walk.

That being said - I always tip waitpeople at least 20%, unless the service really sucks. I've been on the other side and I know what a thankless job it is. That includes Sonic carhops and even some fast food places if someone brings something out to the table.

I'd have to agree with the OP somewhat - Okies do tend to be low tippers - same with other Midwestern/Southern cities in general. I think it has to do with the anti-labor attitude, but I could be biased.:sofa:

I think the FACT we even need privacy laws for businesses shows they cant be trusted to behave in a responsible manner.
I seen alot of patients records, credit card and other financial information being tossed without being shredded stories.
And you who feels that privacy laws is a "undue" regulation, also think its a crime for identity thieves to get away with it.
WHERE do you think they get this information to start with???
Before thinking all government regulation is bad.
THINK IT OUT

Don't forget the Sackers at Crest Discount Foods, Home of Rock Bottom Prices!

I think the FACT we even need privacy laws for businesses shows they cant be trusted to behave in a responsible manner.

We also have laws against spitting on the sidewalk. To claim laws are good evidence of a need seems odd. Think about it.

Don't forget the Sackers at Crest Discount Foods, Home of Rock Bottom Prices!

Hey Thunder...My wife really likes Crest foods! Which one do you work at? We shop at the Edmond store, and I'll certainly pass ya a buck or two for good service!

Hey MT...Have you read anything concerning the history of tipping? Being lazy here, as I could google it, but just curious since you are a well read, scholarly guy.

I'm sure it's just a way for owners of businesses to make available services which otherwise would not be available. I do think it's become somewhat misused, and in some cases is quite absurd. While I generally tip waitstaff well, I have a hard time understanding why the server at Pearl's Graveside deserves to make twice as much as a server at Denny's who performs ostensibly the same task.

I think I heard it best referred to on a BBC program as a self-imposed luxury tax on Americans.

As to the current situation, the reason most other countries do not have tipping is because employees are already well compensated because of living-wage laws. In the U.S., we have something similar to that called the minimum wage. For servers, they earn $2.15/hr plus tips. For valets? They get at least minimum wage and then tips on top of that. If they're in a good spot, they serve a lot more customers in a given evening than does a waiter. The valet doesn't have to memorize specials, learn the wine and whiskey list, nor do they have to familiarize themselves with the merchandise or hock desserts. The valet just has to be able to drive a standard and be in reasonably good shape. Other than that? The job is not unlike many poorly compensated, non-tipping jobs.

Hey Thunder...My wife really likes Crest foods! Which one do you work at? We shop at the Edmond store, and I'll certainly pass ya a buck or two for good service!

You're way too far up north! :omg:

I'm at the smallest one down south. :sofa:

I probably see a lot of OKCTalk members without realizing it. :doh:

I'm sure it's just a way for owners of businesses to make available services which otherwise would not be available. I do think it's become somewhat misused, and in some cases is quite absurd. While I generally tip waitstaff well, I have a hard time understanding why the server at Pearl's Graveside deserves to make twice as much as a server at Denny's who performs ostensibly the same task.

I think I heard it best referred to on a BBC program as a self-imposed luxury tax on Americans.

As to the current situation, the reason most other countries do not have tipping is because employees are already well compensated because of living-wage laws. In the U.S., we have something similar to that called the minimum wage. For servers, they earn $2.15/hr plus tips. For valets? They get at least minimum wage and then tips on top of that. If they're in a good spot, they serve a lot more customers in a given evening than does a waiter. The valet doesn't have to memorize specials, learn the wine and whiskey list, nor do they have to familiarize themselves with the merchandise or hock desserts. The valet just has to be able to drive a standard and be in reasonably good shape. Other than that? The job is not unlike many poorly compensated, non-tipping jobs.

People fail to forget this is America, if you do not like the compensation your job provides you can always go work somewhere else or seek job training to get you out of that job. OCCC, OSU-OKC and the area VoTech's can get you into a new job in as little as two weeks to two years. Everyone of them offer finacial aid and a schedule that will mesh with your work hours.

Sure, you may have to give up a few espisodes of American Idol or Lost but... the time spent will pay your more than being a loyal television viewer will in three lifetimes. Bottomline it comes down to making the effort to better yourself. If your not willing to make the effort to change your situation do not expect anybody else to step up to make it better. Tips are a courtesy in my book not a mandatory fee.

People fail to forget this is America, if you do not like the compensation your job provides you can always go work somewhere else or seek job training to get you out of that job. OCCC, OSU-OKC and the area VoTech's can get you into a new job in as little as two weeks to two years. Everyone of them offer finacial aid and a schedule that will mesh with your work hours.

Sure, you may have to give up a few espisodes of American Idol or Lost but... the time spent will pay your more than being a loyal television viewer will in three lifetimes. Bottomline it comes down to making the effort to better yourself. If your not willing to make the effort to change your situation do not expect anybody else to step up to make it better. Tips are a courtesy in my book not a mandatory fee.

I used to think like this, and still do to some extent. Certainly higher education is available to people that want it bad enough. Some vo-tech education is nearly free in some states. All this is true.

But what concerns me is this "if you don't like it piss-off" attitude so many right wingers seem to have, and the absolute refusal to have a discussion on the merits of establishing a living wage law in the United States. I wonder if people with this kind of attitude have ever been to other countries around the world, or even attempted to look via the internet at countries like Australia who pay living wages to service workers so that they do not have to rely on tips, and consumers are not hasseled for tips.

I use Australia as an example because I have been there and experienced it, have family in New South Wales and extremely good friends in South Australia. First off, when a living wage is paid to these service type workers, the incentive to get off the dole is there because it pays more to work. In Australia, they do not call it welfare, they call it the dole! They call it what it is, not some politically correct name like welfare. Further, they require people on the dole who are physically able to work on public projects that are small enough that contractors are not interested in the work. Seems like a pretty reasonable system to me. That, I am certain, is one of the reasons Australia is not yet even in official recession, but we are teetering on the edge of financial abyss.

Australia also has a combined public and private healthcare system that works extremely well and is not tied to a persons employment. So that person does not feel compelled to remain in a dead end job for fear of losing healthcare coverage. EVERYBODY pays, and EVERYBODY is covered, and the overall standard of living in Australia is considerably better than here in the U.S.

Now, before you guys tell me to piss off and move to Australia, know this: That's a cop out and nothing more than political rhetoric to make statements like that. If you truly believe America is the greatest country on the planet and no other country could possibly have a better system than ours, prove it with citable facts, not rhetorical RNC talking points.

Lets have a real discussion instead of an attack-fest.

Awww come on man! My 17 YO daughter car hops at Sonic...break out your wallet, LOL! :poke:

Okay, I admit, on rare occasion, IF, and I mean capital letters IF, the Sonic girl or boy is very nice and pleasant, I give more. But think about it, they just carried a tray with a hamburger on it from the bldg to my car, which is NOT a long way. I mean come on! Seriously.

Now, waitresses are a different story. I WILL tip 15% for good service and more if I really like the service. But that 15% is not a given!

As for Valet, the Firelake Grand casino and Remington offer valet, and neither is considered upscale, so quit whining or get a new job. Now, if you are a valet in Beverly Hills or at the Brown Derby restaurant, yes, I can see the valets crying over a dollar tip.

Get an education and get a decent job. One dollar is all you are going to get for bringing my car. Sorry. I won't tip a rude taxi driver in Vegas, and it is a dollar a bag at the casinos in Vegas for the bellhop.

The difference is that in the US, we are rewarded more for our hard work at improving our lot in life than we would be anyplace else. I've worked my butt off and spent a pretty penny for my law degree. I should be able to enjoy earning $200K/year or so without having to worry about covering the shortcomings of folks who have failed to work remotely as hard as I have to improve their lots in life.

In America, you are given an opportunity to pursue wealth and power, but you are guaranteed nothing. It's not necessarily a better philosophy than in Europe or Australia, just different.

The difference is that in the US, we are rewarded more for our hard work at improving our lot in life than we would be anyplace else. I've worked my butt off and spent a pretty penny for my law degree. I should be able to enjoy earning $200K/year or so without having to worry about covering the shortcomings of folks who have failed to work remotely as hard as I have to improve their lots in life.

In America, you are given an opportunity to pursue wealth and power, but you are guaranteed nothing. It's not necessarily a better philosophy than in Europe or Australia, just different.

How would paying a living wage cut into your $200K salary or business income? If this translates to less people on the dole, meaning less tax revenue spent funding the dole, how would this harm your earnings?

In Australia, you can make as much as you are capable of earning, just like here, only they have a much larger middle class, and a much smaller class of poor. Sounds like a win-win situation to me, and certianly worth considering here.

It would cut into my income because it'd cut into my overhead. It'd further cut into my effective income because most other places I'd purchase from would pass on the costs of their increased overhead to the consumer, thus increasing prices of other goods and services.

It would cut into my income because it'd cut into my overhead. It'd further cut into my effective income because most other places I'd purchase from would pass on the costs of their increased overhead to the consumer, thus increasing prices of other goods and services.

I have heard that argument often when discussing a living wage, but have never seen any numbers put to it. That would tell the true story. But lets hypothetically look at your situation as an aspiring attorney. After establishing yourself through competent hard work, persistence and due dilligence, you now find yourself with the confidence to open your new law office. What will you need to open your doors to the public? A building for an office, purchased or, most likely leased, and maybe one paralegal and one secretary to start. I would think it safe to assume an educated paralegal will make far above the living wage, but lets say you have to pay your secretary $15 per hour to start.

The paralegal's wages will be the reasonable and customary wage for that occupation depending uopn experience, and as such, will not contribute to an increase in what you charge your clients. The wild card is the secretary in the front office earning $15 per hour. Lets say that is $5 per hour more than you might have paid a secretary without the living wage law. You would then divide that $5 per hour by the number of clients you serve and add it to their bill. Depending upon the number of clients you acquire, this hourly amount will likely wind up being less than $1 per hour per client, and if you are really good, it will amount to pennies per hour. That's not much of an overhead increase, and your secretary will have more money to spend at more businesses.

The living wage paid to the people who constructed your business building must also be factored in, and divided accordingly. This likely will add only perhaps several hundred dollars to the cost of each individual structure these workers bulid, but will give these workers more money to spend and save. However, in many locales in the country, skilled construction workers are paid over $20 per hour, so there would be zero effect from the living wage. Only the laborers would be affected. Another positive.

You can keep carrying these examples out, and it looks to me to result in fewer workers on the dole, and more money flowing through the economy, and less money spent on unemployment insurance premiums.

I was told by a Vegas resident that the valets at the casinos don't get paid anything by the casino, and yet make easily $70,000/yr. I agree Oklahomans are cheap.

Most valet operations are contracted, so only the contracted company MAY get paid by the casino or they may have to pay the casino to operate much like a stylist/barber pays the salon or shop for booth space. I would image that valets out there get paid at least a minimum wage (not sure if it would be the normal or "regularly tipped employee" rate) by the valet operator.

Of course a valet (and other people in the service industry) in a "flash and trash" capitol have more opportunity to make large money because people tend to throw money around to impress others. You don't work at that level of the service industry in "fly over" land if you want to become rich, it's something you do to get by until you figure out what you want to do when you grow up. If you want to make a career of it you need to be on the coasts or Vegas.

I don't trust valets. I figure they are stealing my gum and stuff. Or making copies of my keys.

Ever since those valet's in Ferris Beuller's Day Off went on a joy ride in Cameron's dad's car I just don't trust them.... :-)

its not so much that oklahomans are cheap, but the ratio of residents here versus ratio of residents on "the west coast" who hold college-degreed jobs simply pales in comparison.

to live comfortably on the west coast you pretty much need a college degree to afford decent housing for certain, let alone other necessities and/or luxuries.

here in oklahoma, there are some who hold college degrees and others who dont. however, in oklahoma its possible for one to live decent and comfortably without a college degree although sometimes living that way tends to cause one to consistently budget their finances.

that being said, theres only so many times that a given individual can afford to tip x amount of times in a given month to various establishments: valets, restaurant workers, hotel staff, etc.

more than ever today those who dont have college degrees are wanting to enjoy many of the same luxuries that those who do have college degrees already enjoy. the more luxuries that they are able to enjoy, the better quality of life they feel that they have attained.

so if in their mind they eat out 500 times, and refuse to leave a $2 tip each of those times...thats $1,000 they have saved.

its the reason many manufacturing jobs are located overseas for cheap labor, why sunday newspapers are jammed-packed with coupons, why many flock to yard sales seeking the best bargains, and why walmart thrives....

the occupationally underpriveledged are more and more demanding a higher stature of living thats akin to their college-degreed counterparts..even if that means withholding tips here and there to achieve that.

its not so much that oklahomans are cheap, but the ratio of residents here versus ratio of residents on "the west coast" who hold college-degreed jobs simply pales in comparison.
It has nothing to do with the issue if you are "educated" or not, it has more to do with personality types and respect for what others do more than anything else. Some of the biggest tightwads that I have known have been very highly educated people (some with very advanced degrees) but they also treat everyone else around them with very little respect while some of the most generous and well respected people are the ones who made their own way through life without such an educational "pedigree".

To me there is just an overall lack of respect for the labor of others in today's society, it just seems that most people want everything for nothing.


I don't trust valets. I figure they are stealing my gum and stuff. Or making copies of my keys.
There have been more than a few theft rings (car or home) that have originated with valet connections. I have my car/house keys on one of those keyrings that you can separate. It was mainly for my convienence with swpping out car keys between our cars.

I don't trust valets. I figure they are stealing my gum and stuff. Or making copies of my keys.

lol an elitist if ever heard of one.

We also have laws against spitting on the sidewalk. To claim laws are good evidence of a need seems odd. Think about it.

No...think about this.
To show a reason for lawsuit,negligence or criminal behavior you need to define a "breaking of a law", such as .."making copies of car keys by some dishonest valets" ...duh?!

My son worked at Sonic until recently (got a great job at Sam's), however, I never tip the carhop unless the weather is really bad (rain, snow, etc.) and then its only about $.50-$.75.

As for valets... I too rarely use one unless there is no other option or the weather is really bad. I only tip $1-$3 depending mostly on my mood.

I do have a question though. How do you guys handle car services? I travel alot to do TV shows and speaking engagements. Most of the time a car service picks me up at the airport/hotel, etc. Usually for a ride to/from airport I tip $5. The ride to the studio or college, etc. is usually very short and sometimes I tip, but sometimes I don't.

I've asked friendlier drivers and they tell me they are paid pretty well and don't expect a tip from people they are transporting under contract as opposed to private rentals.

In this situation do you tip?

No...think about this.
To show a reason for lawsuit,negligence or criminal behavior you need to define a "breaking of a law", such as .."making copies of car keys by some dishonest valets" ...duh?!

That has nothing to do with an underlying need for a law. You are just describing an element of a claim.

I have heard that argument often when discussing a living wage, but have never seen any numbers put to it. That would tell the true story. But lets hypothetically look at your situation as an aspiring attorney. After establishing yourself through competent hard work, persistence and due dilligence, you now find yourself with the confidence to open your new law office. What will you need to open your doors to the public? A building for an office, purchased or, most likely leased, and maybe one paralegal and one secretary to start. I would think it safe to assume an educated paralegal will make far above the living wage, but lets say you have to pay your secretary $15 per hour to start.

I'll probably never need a paralegal (and I don't even really know what that is as there's no consistent mark of qualification or quality for individuals holding themselves out as 'paralegal,' and even so someone who is somewhat educated in the law, but not enough to be licensed to practice is just a little on the scary side, particularly from the perspective of one who would be responsible for their malpractice.

That said, I'm more than likely at some point to take on someone to work as a receptionist and file clerk. I'm also more than likely going to seek out a law student or a college student for that work and I plan on paying them as low a wage as I can get away with. There's no shortage of kids who need an employer who can work with their schedule and understand that they need some slack around finals, and many are willing to be paid a subsistence wage for that sort of 'understanding.' Take the D.A.'s office -- they pay interns around $8/hour to do basically the same work in many cases that the A.D.A.s would be doing.

To force the issue of a living wage would mean that the D.A.'s office and I will simply not be employing these people. No way am I going to part with $35-$40K of the money I bring in for services I don't necessarily want or need and no way is the D.A. going to be able to pay for more Assistants on its already shoestring budget.


The paralegal's wages will be the reasonable and customary wage for that occupation depending uopn experience, and as such, will not contribute to an increase in what you charge your clients. The wild card is the secretary in the front office earning $15 per hour. Lets say that is $5 per hour more than you might have paid a secretary without the living wage law. You would then divide that $5 per hour by the number of clients you serve and add it to their bill. Depending upon the number of clients you acquire, this hourly amount will likely wind up being less than $1 per hour per client, and if you are really good, it will amount to pennies per hour. That's not much of an overhead increase, and your secretary will have more money to spend at more businesses.

If I hire a paralegal and they're willing to work for less than the "reasonable and customary wage for that occupation," either I made a good deal in convincing them to work at that wage, or possibly market forces say that there are a glut of paralegals and not so many jobs to be had, thus market forces dictate a lower wage than was previously "reasonable and customary."

Further, I don't want to get into the particulars of running a small law office, but to say I could simply "pass along the costs" says to me that you really don't understand how a law office works. It's not so simple. We can't just pad our bill and we can't assign these overpaid employees to do work that they're unqualified to do or work that doesn't really need to be done in order to simply justify a higher bill. That'd be extremely unethical, not to mention the fact that it'd be a stupid business practice which would run clients off.


The living wage paid to the people who constructed your business building must also be factored in, and divided accordingly. This likely will add only perhaps several hundred dollars to the cost of each individual structure these workers bulid, but will give these workers more money to spend and save. However, in many locales in the country, skilled construction workers are paid over $20 per hour, so there would be zero effect from the living wage. Only the laborers would be affected. Another positive.

A few "hundred" dollars? That's pure fantasy. In the construction business, what'll happen for laborers is that in many, if not most cases, the work which wasn't already going to illegals would most definitely go to illegals, cash would go under the table. No one would earn a "living wage" and in that case, fewer Americans would earn any wage at all.


You can keep carrying these examples out, and it looks to me to result in fewer workers on the dole, and more money flowing through the economy, and less money spent on unemployment insurance premiums.

It seems to me the result would be just the opposite. More workers would be on the dole as more workers who were previously only suitable for subsistence wage jobs or who like law students, interns at the D.A.'s office or college students, workers who because of their other commitments make less than desirable employees without major concessions on the worker's part.

This living wage business assumes too much about the equality of workers. It further hamstrings employers who are looking for a particular type of employee who don't mind trading effectiveness for pay.

I'm sure you've heard this argument before -- maybe it's right?