And if I was on the jury I would require the prosecution to put a witness on the stand to tell how someone was harmed from this pot growing. If it wasn't done, I would vote not guilty because the law against marijuana as used against this case is totally wrong and unjust.

Prior to being seated on a jury, every juror will be asked by the judge if he or she is willing to follow the law. That is, if the state / government has proven each and every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt, you will return a verdict of guilty. If they fail to do so, you will find the defendant not guilty. Harm to any individual is NOT an element of marijuana cultivation (I'm not going anywhere near the argument of harm to the community at large - Ford v. Chevy). And every juror takes an oath to follow the law as instructed by the Court.

If you choose to add your own personal element ("harm"), then you will have certainly violated your oath, but I suppose that's a personal decision.

Let me get this straight. Through the logic of you, Bunty and USG60, you are saying the likes of those selling the black tar heroin wouldn't happen if heroin were legal? Exactly how do you come to that conclusion? How do you come to the conclusion that drugs are not harmful? What about all the grunge rockers of the 90's that died - I think, exclusively from heroin? Did they die of OD's simply because heroin is illegal? NO! They died because heroin is deadly. Do I think marijuana is deadly? No. It's still illegal. So if I am sitting on a jury on a pot possession charge and the facts point to guilt, I will find guilty because that is the law - not because I think the law is wrong or right.Mugsy....doggone it...... you're kinda new and haven't had the opportunity to be in on one of THESE threads. We have beat this dead horse half to death in many other threads. It simply isn't in me to say it all again, so please use the search function and read the other threads, then if you STILL have questions, I won't mind addressing them. Perhaps others might be in the mood for "startin' all over" on someone. I hope they will as I think you deserve to be given some understanding, but I'm too old, too tired and too impatient.

:boxing2: I see, so those of us who may be new to the thread don't get to give our 2 cents worth? It really makes me feel that you don't have a good answer to points in the debate. If you don't feel like having a discussion, then why did you post on the thread in the first place? Maybe you need to go to the thread zone for "old, tired and impatient posters who have said it all and don't give a **** about what anyone else has to say because they are 'new' - even though we are totally and completely wrong." This is an important issue that hits close to home with me. There are too many people out there that have totally illogical and ignorant feelings on the subject that need to be set straight. I know I may be new, but if you are going to be on a posting site but you don't want to participate in the discussion, then don't post.

Sorry about the last post. I was angered at something totally unrelated and off this site and took it out on USG. Please accept my apology for my crabbiness.

:boxing2: I see, so those of us who may be new to the thread don't get to give our 2 cents worth? It really makes me feel that you don't have a good answer to points in the debate. If you don't feel like having a discussion, then why did you post on the thread in the first place? Maybe you need to go to the thread zone for "old, tired and impatient posters who have said it all and don't give a **** about what anyone else has to say because they are 'new' - even though we are totally and completely wrong." This is an important issue that hits close to home with me. There are too many people out there that have totally illogical and ignorant feelings on the subject that need to be set straight. I know I may be new, but if you are going to be on a posting site but you don't want to participate in the discussion, then don't post.I didn't say you shouldn't have your say and you had it. I think you were wanting an answer from one or more of the three of us. I was letting you know why I was not going to and why. I know that answering your immediate questions will lead predictibly to another and another. They have all been answered ad nauseum. Once I know that you have at least been exposed to our side of the arguement, I will be happy to get to details. Perhaps by the time I punch submit one of the others will have jumped in to help you understand. Hope so.

Sorry about the last post. I was angered at something totally unrelated and off this site and took it out on USG. Please accept my apology for my crabbiness.Opps, then you're going to have to forgive my haughty attitude. :whiteflag

And just imagine being a 21 year old white male in a state prison...ever heard of prison rape? Look it up and prepare to be shocked.


Ever hear of the aryan brotherhood? Being a 21 year old white male is not uncommon in our prison system. Whites are still the majority in Oklahoma state prisons.

Second, before we cry a river, let us remember one thing, every single one of us okies KNOWS growing marijuana is illegal in our state. Those marijuana plants did not just jump into the pots and grow themselves.

Those folks made a choice, knowingly and willingly, to disobey the law.

Lastly, what is worse than the marijuana laws are the use of prior felonies to enhance a prison sentence. Meaning, if a person has prior felonies, a minute amount of marijuana can bring 20 years and the zig zags can be a felony Drug Paraphernalia charge with 10 years. That is not a typo and I have seen it many a time.

East Coast Okie,

Are you by chance a child of the 1960's? And no ma'am, I am not suggesting you are old.

And if I was on the jury I would require the prosecution to put a witness on the stand to tell how someone was harmed from this pot growing. If it wasn't done, I would vote not guilty because the law against marijuana as used against this case is totally wrong and unjust.

Well, assuming this went to trial, which it probably won't, the prosecutor is going to screen people like you out, so assuming you don't lie in court, your views won't be able to affect the outcome.

Well, assuming this went to trial, which it probably won't, the prosecutor is going to screen people like you out, so assuming you don't lie in court, your views won't be able to affect the outcome.That's sad........ but true.

Jury nullification is a dangerous concept. "We the jury choose to acquit one defendant for the same actions for which we would convict another...."

I think it's apt to point out again that all of these "gross miscarriage of justice" cases brought up here on this board have been about white, middle class, employed people.

Not a single tale of woe about a black or Hispanic unemployed individual sent to the pokey for cultivating marijuana for sale. I hate to accuse anyone of racism, but maybe the shoe fits here?

Let me get this straight. Through the logic of you, Bunty and USG60, you are saying the likes of those selling the black tar heroin wouldn't happen if heroin were legal? Exactly how do you come to that conclusion? How do you come to the conclusion that drugs are not harmful? What about all the grunge rockers of the 90's that died - I think, exclusively from heroin? Did they die of OD's simply because heroin is illegal? NO! They died because heroin is deadly. Do I think marijuana is deadly? No. It's still illegal. So if I am sitting on a jury on a pot possession charge and the facts point to guilt, I will find guilty because that is the law - not because I think the law is wrong or right.

Well, some of us just don't want to defend another government program that has failed, such as the war on drugs. Like I mean, if I absolutely despised drugs and visioned a drug free environment, I would feel mighty strange in defending a program that only seized 10% of the underground market, with that figure coming from a past article about drugs in the Oklahoman on its front page.

Neither do some of us want to be in the same company who don't want to see drugs legalized--the drug pushers. They sure don't want to see their underground market destroyed like what happened with alcohol.

Whether legal or not, death can be a result of using drugs.

Just because a law is a law doesn't also mean it's also so important that it must be enforced and citations issued even where a cop is present. For instance, I was stopped one time in OKC for speeding. But I didn't get a ticket because the cop had to stop what he was trying to do because he got a call about a shooting. I think possession of marijuana should be a lower priority than speeding.

Those marijuana plants did not just jump into the pots and grow themselves.

Actually, I do know an attorney who saw his client acquitted because these pretty plants with pretty yellow flowers just started growing in pots on her front porch and she decided that since they were aesthetically pleasing, she'd keep them.

So it is conceivable that those plants did just "jump" into those pots and grow themselves. The plant is apparently indigenous to this area.

26 years ago, the first spring I lived in my present house, as I was mowing my lawn the first time I saw a little 4" plant that looked familiar and I stopped the mower just in time to save it's life. I mowed around that little booger and continued to do so for weeks. It was sorta out in the middle of the yard and the bigger it got the more paranoid I got. I knew I could put something to prevent the electric meter reader from seeing it, but the ONG guy would have to walk right by it. Plus it was PUN-gent. Whew. By the time it reached 2' I chickened out. All I can say is that it was a mild smoke. :rolleyes: :Smiley181

Speaking of marijuana, did anyone else happen to catch Joe Cocker preaching and singing on Daystar Television tonight? I was channel surfing and when I went past that channel I had to do a u-turn and check it out just to be sure.

When did Joe Cocker get religion?

Actually, I do know an attorney who saw his client acquitted because these pretty plants with pretty yellow flowers just started growing in pots on her front porch and she decided that since they were aesthetically pleasing, she'd keep them.

So it is conceivable that those plants did just "jump" into those pots and grow themselves. The plant is apparently indigenous to this area.

I have lived in northeast KS and saw plenty of ditch weed because it grew wild around Manhattan, KS. But I have yet to see any wild marijuana "ditch weed" growing in Oklahoma.

And I am sure I would know about it as would every teenager. So please share with us what area it is indigenous to and I will take your word for it.

My landlady was 92 years young in KS, and she had a marijuana plant growing in the flower bed. She thought it was pretty, so she watered it.

*I don't recall ditch weed having yellow flowers though...*

Her grand daughter told her what it was and they called the police to make sure and sure enough, it was good old KS ditch weed.

You can imagine my surprise when I first saw wild marijuana plants 10 feet tall growing along side the bike path in Manhattan, KS!

But we both know the difference between knowing and unknowingly growing marijuana, so let's not kid ourselves or insult anyone's intelligence.

...and ditch weed will give you a headache. It's not like the cover of High Times by any means.

Did they die of OD's simply because heroin is illegal? NO! They died because heroin is deadly.

The effects of heroin on a family is god awful. Some of my worst GAL cases have a parent who is hooked on heroin. Just awful. If you (not Mug) saw the distruction it causes the kids, you'd NEVER made the boneheaded argument that regulation would make it okay. As if an addict can adhere to legal regulations or is capable of the restraint we expect from a parent. They are buying it illegally to begin with. And they will prostitute themselves and anyone around them to get it.

You haven't seen anything so pathetic as a young woman with a heroin habit who will do anything to get her drug. The degradation of a human would bring tears to any feeling person. Just because it was legal in the first place wouldn't protect her from getting hooked and needing more and more and more.

East Coast Okie,

Are you by chance a child of the 1960's? And no ma'am, I am not suggesting you are old.

Oh, darling, I was born in the 50's - and I am not sensitive about my age so not to worry! :dizzy: