ImTheDude
06-21-2009, 08:41 PM
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View Full Version : More CHK news ImTheDude 06-21-2009, 08:41 PM .. Libbymin 06-21-2009, 08:52 PM I talked to a friend who works for CHK and he said that it was between 100-200 layoffs, 20 or so in Land Admin. Never like to hear about anyone losing their job, but he's been complaining about some of the lazy people around him who do NOTHING and show up when they want. His comment was that these were people that should've been gone a while ago. ImTheDude 06-22-2009, 07:55 AM They manipulate their employees Yes, they manipulate their employees by offering high paying jobs, great work environment, excellent cash and stock bonuses and a 401k that is 2nd to none. Its a terribe place to work. I really think some of you for whatever reason get off on anything negative that happens to CHK and/or AM. metro 06-22-2009, 08:31 AM So any real proof of these layoffs yet? ImTheDude 06-22-2009, 08:37 AM So any real proof of these layoffs yet? Are you serious? icecold 06-22-2009, 09:23 AM So any real proof of these layoffs yet? Well my roommate works at the mother ship and he confirmed to me last night about 200 people. He is in the land department and knows plenty of folks that got the pink slip. Take it FWIW. Steve 06-22-2009, 09:34 AM I'm on vacation folks, but checking my emails I've received a some communication from within Chesapeake City saying the same thing. LordGerald 06-22-2009, 09:37 AM I'm on vacation folks, but checking my emails I've received a some communication from within Chesapeake City saying the same thing. metro needs proof. He needs to see a photo of someone walking out with a box of their desk belongings. pokemike 06-22-2009, 09:38 AM KOKH FOX 25 :: Top Stories (http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_2581.shtml) metro 06-22-2009, 09:39 AM Geez people, I'm simply wanting to know if the local media has confirmed this or not. gmwise 06-22-2009, 10:49 AM Metro, the only media outside of the internet that covered this was Fox25. AM must have done some serious public relations purchasing, and of course CB would never bad mouth AM. When you leverage a little bit of cash and you win, you have admirers, when you do and lose you're a numskull. If you're a business that does this you either a innovative and far sighted company IF you win. If not you're a Enron/Tyco/WorldCom. AM never paid to get this large properly, this is just a market correction, aka karma..lol lasomeday 06-22-2009, 11:20 AM Metro, when are you going to wake up and realize that the media isn't the bible. You can't rely on them. LordGerald 06-22-2009, 12:00 PM Metro, when are you going to wake up and realize that the media isn't the bible. You can't rely on them. But I thought metro was the media. PLANSIT 06-22-2009, 12:07 PM But I thought metro was the media. :laughing_ OKCMallen 06-22-2009, 12:41 PM So any real proof of these layoffs yet? Never happened. Nothing to see here. :tiphat: metro 06-22-2009, 01:05 PM Metro, when are you going to wake up and realize that the media isn't the bible. You can't rely on them. duh, obviously you haven't read many of my posts. I break most stories before the media, and I work in the public relations so believe me I know. Doesn't mean I can't ask a question, and FYI, on stories that are as big as this, the media usually DOES COVER THEM. You can't buy your way out of 200+ layoffs. I don't care who you are. Martin 06-22-2009, 01:27 PM ok, people... back to topic. -M Soho 06-22-2009, 02:20 PM I don't want to come across as an Aubrey apologist because I am not. I have competed with him in the past and he is a worthy opponent, sometimes mercenary but always ethical. I just want to offer that very few CEOs could have negotiated ~$10B in transactions in a time that markets were crashing. While $75M is a huge amount, it is small in the scope of things and in my opinion, well deserved. The financial condition of CHK is much more sound because of his actions. While we all feel for those let go, let's not lose sight of the thousands of jobs that have been saved due to AM's negotiating skills. Kerry 06-22-2009, 02:35 PM The only thing I can find in any media is the laying off of about 200 people in Charleston, WV. However, this doesn't come as a surprise after this story last year. The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports - Breaking News - Chesapeake scraps $30m headquarters plans (http://www.wvgazette.com/latest/200805290234) acpaxton1 06-22-2009, 03:09 PM Here's a clip from FOX 25. KOKH FOX 25 :: Top Stories (http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_2581.shtml) gmwise 06-22-2009, 04:39 PM Here's a clip from FOX 25. KOKH FOX 25 :: Top Stories (http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_2581.shtml) Thanks AC! Steve 06-22-2009, 05:53 PM At NewsOK now or soon - 50 laid off soonerguru 06-22-2009, 06:28 PM Fifty? Not so bad, after all. Still feel for those folks. Thanks for the update, Steve. LordGerald 06-22-2009, 07:40 PM Fifty? Not so bad, after all. Still feel for those folks. Thanks for the update, Steve. Fiddy today. Fiddy tomorrow. Here are some questions to think about: Q: If layoffs occurred on Friday, why is it "officially" becoming news late on a Monday? Q: Why, when Aubrey had to pay for margin calls, did that become news at 5:30 on a Friday? Q: Are the residual savings from "50" layoffs enough to cover the losses that the company has taken in the past year? Q: Why 50? Why not 100, or 200? Q: When was the last time you saw an insert in the Sunday Oklahoman showing the new hires at CHK? Q: Why is a company advertising itself to its own audience during Thunder basketball games? Is the average Thunder fan going to buy CHK stock, or is it simply a case that we should feel good that we are supporting one of the owners? Q: Name me another Fortune 500 company that doesn't have a spokesperson. LG has met Aubrey Mac several times and he is impressive. I admire him enormously and thank him for the contributions he has made to the community. But, a little more honesty would be nice. naturalgasok 06-22-2009, 08:47 PM My apologies for the multiple posts. I thought maybe my account wasn't working for some reason. Turns out I was just awaiting approval by the mod. LG has met Aubrey Mac several times and he is impressive. I admire him enormously and thank him for the contributions he has made to the community. But, a little more honesty would be nice. The lack of forthrightness to both the employees and the public is one of my biggest complaints about CHK. There are a lot of good aspects to the company, and, no doubt, Aubrey is charismatic, and, for the most part, genuine in his desire to make Oklahoma City a great city. However, I often think that CHK is like one of those seemingly awesome families that everyone admires at church, but who are seriously dysfunctional within the walls of their home. Libbymin 06-22-2009, 11:06 PM Talked to my friend again who works there and he informed me that the layoffs were mostly performance-driven, not financially motivated like some are thinking. The people he said that got laid off were people that should've been canned a while ago according to him. Captain Foo 06-23-2009, 12:15 AM 50 probably does not count those who took early retirement packages. And my CHK friends say that the layoffs are being spread over multiple days. So fiddy today and fiddy tomorrow might be not far from the truth. gmwise 06-23-2009, 05:20 AM AM is the product of familial inbreeding. He is a NUT, a control freak, and I hope he gets a good exposure to H1N1. Or the black death either or.... warreng88 06-23-2009, 08:50 AM Here is the report from the Journal Record: Chesapeake cuts 50 jobs in Oklahoma City office by Murray Evans Associated Press June 23, 2009 OKLAHOMA CITY – Chesapeake Energy Corp. acknowledged on Monday that it has laid off employees at its corporate office. The independent natural gas producer said in a statement Monday that it “eliminated less than 50 positions of over 3,300” at its Oklahoma City headquarters. The statement did not indicate if the company cut jobs at other locations or what kind of jobs were lost.Rumors of the layoffs had swirled late last week, although Chesapeake declined to acknowledge the job cuts until issuing the statement late Monday afternoon. The company said the jobs were cut “to correspond with the level of existing exploration and activity.” Chesapeake has dropped its operated rig count from 158 in August to 95 now because of lower natural gas prices. Chesapeake said it has more than 8,300 employees in the U.S. In a statement issued Friday after word about the layoffs began surfacing, Chesapeake initially cited company policy in not disclosing what it called “independent employment decisions that we make in the course of our operations.” The Friday statement also said that “since July 2008 we have added 900 net employees and since January of this year, we have added 350 net employees. In Oklahoma City, we have added 350 net employees in the past year and 150 net employees in the past six months. We currently have more than 70 job openings across the country.” The layoffs come as Chesapeake faces lawsuits filed by four separate shareholder groups, claiming that the company’s board failed in its fiduciary duties when it awarded CEO Aubrey McClendon a $75 million bonus on Dec. 31. The bonus raised McClendon’s pay package for 2008 to $112.5 million, which an Associated Press calculation determined to be the highest for a CEO among Standard & Poor’s 500 companies. It also was more than four times higher than his $25.5 million pay package in 2007. McClendon, one of Chesapeake’s co-founders and one of nine members of the company’s board of directors, was awarded the bonus even after a tumultuous financial year. Chesapeake’s stock fell to $9.84 in December, its lowest since August 2003, after reaching as high as $74 over the summer. It closed Monday at $19.36, down $1.59. Last October, McClendon was forced to sell 31.5 million shares – about 94 percent of his stake in the company – to meet margin loan calls. He said earlier this month after a shareholders’ meeting that he has not repurchased any company stock. After a shareholder lectured McClendon during the meeting, McClendon forcefully defended himself and his abilities to lead Chesapeake “I’ll tell you there’s not a harder-working guy out there who thinks every day about how to create shareholder value,” McClendon said. “And, I’m dedicated to that. I’ve been dedicated to it for 20 years. And as long as this board is willing to employ me, that’s what I’ll be dedicated to for the next 20 years.” http://journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=99878 onthestrip 06-23-2009, 08:58 AM The Oklahoman finally reported it, in a tiny article on page 4 of the business section. I have a feeling that if this was Devon, the Oklahoman would at least put something about it on the front page. warreng88 06-23-2009, 09:12 AM Here is that article: Oklahoma City-based Chesapeake Energy Corp. cuts less than 50 positions BY RANDY ELLIS Published: June 23, 2009 Oklahoma City-based Chesapeake Energy Corp. said Monday it eliminated "less than 50 positions” from its corporate office last week in response to lower drilling activity. The jobs that were eliminated represent about 1.5 percent of Chesapeake’s 3,300-employee corporate office workforce. The company employs more than 8,300 nationwide. The terminations were done to adjust Chesapeake’s "workforce to correspond with the level of existing exploration and production activity,” the company said in a written response to an inquiry from The Oklahoman. "Chesapeake has reduced its operated rig count from 158 rigs in August 2008 to 95 rigs currently,” the company said. "The lower activity is the result of persistently low natural gas prices the past six months and the continued recession, which has decreased demand for natural gas, particularly in the industrial sector.” Chesapeake has grown rapidly in recent years. Since July 2008, the company has added 900 net employees throughout the corporation, a Chesapeake spokesman said last week. In Oklahoma City, 350 net employees have been added in the past year and 150 net employees in the past six months, the spokesman said. http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-based-chesapeake-energy-corp.-cuts-less-than-50-positions/article/3379903 lasomeday 06-23-2009, 09:45 AM What is their definition of net? I don't trust them. Oil Capital 06-23-2009, 11:37 AM The Oklahoman finally reported it, in a tiny article on page 4 of the business section. I have a feeling that if this was Devon, the Oklahoman would at least put something about it on the front page. The elimination of "less than 50 positions" (which is NOT even the same as 50 layoffs) is nothing more than page 4 business section news and that's assuming there are only 4 pages in the business section. soonerguru 06-23-2009, 04:09 PM There's something creepy about the messianic zeal employees and partisans of Chesapeake have -- combined with the PT Barnum meets Willy Wonka style of Aubrey McClendon -- that carries the distinct whiff of Enron. Just like Grandma said, "When something seems too good to be true, it probably is." How is this company making any money right now? What kind of spending orgy are they engaged in? I no longer trust stock analysts to tell me what my senses already do. As a company, Chesapeake seems like something that is floating on vapor. Only a turnaround in the price of natural gas (not bloody likely in the short term) would make me feel differently. dismayed 06-23-2009, 07:36 PM There's something creepy about the messianic zeal employees and partisans of Chesapeake have -- combined with the PT Barnum meets Willy Wonka style of Aubrey McClendon -- that carries the distinct whiff of Enron. Just like Grandma said, "When something seems too good to be true, it probably is." How is this company making any money right now? What kind of spending orgy are they engaged in? I no longer trust stock analysts to tell me what my senses already do. As a company, Chesapeake seems like something that is floating on vapor. Only a turnaround in the price of natural gas (not bloody likely in the short term) would make me feel differently. That's funny. I come into contact with CHK people occasionally, and every time I talk to them I feel like I've just gotten sucked into an Amway convention. john60 06-23-2009, 07:38 PM The Oklahoman finally reported it, in a tiny article on page 4 of the business section. I have a feeling that if this was Devon, the Oklahoman would at least put something about it on the front page. Kind of makes one question The Oklahoman's credibility (or maybe ability to timely report big news, and give it the attention it deserves?). Really disappointing that it takes what is supposedly the state's flagship periodical four days to report a major layoff at one of the state's few Fortune 500 companies and one of its largest employers. And then just basically publish a press release from the company and doing what appears to be little to no questioning or investigative journalism. Fox 25 beat them to the story BY DAYS! That's bad. Oil Capital 06-23-2009, 09:18 PM Kind of makes one question The Oklahoman's credibility (or maybe ability to timely report big news, and give it the attention it deserves?). Really disappointing that it takes what is supposedly the state's flagship periodical four days to report a major layoff at one of the state's few Fortune 500 companies and one of its largest employers. And then just basically publish a press release from the company and doing what appears to be little to no questioning or investigative journalism. Fox 25 beat them to the story BY DAYS! That's bad. Whoah, there. Had there been a "major layoff", or anything close to it, you might have a point. Sadly for you, however, it seems that here in the real world only 50 (FIFTY!!) positions have been eliminated. That is not even as bad as 50 layoffs, which itself would be a fourth page story, at best. Fos 25's story that beat them by days (by your account) reported nothing but rumor. Take another look at it if you doubt me. It's not all bad to wait for actual facts before rushing to press with what, in any event, was a less than headline story. onthestrip 06-23-2009, 09:27 PM Whoah, there. Had there been a "major layoff", or anything close to it, you might have a point. Sadly for you, however, it seems that here in the real world only 50 (FIFTY!!) positions have been eliminated. That is not even as bad as 50 layoffs, which itself would be a fourth page story, at best. Fos 25's story that beat them by days (by your account) reported nothing but rumor. Take another look at it if you doubt me. It's not all bad to wait for actual facts before rushing to press with what, in any event, was a less than headline story. Aubrey McClendon...(raising glasses)...is that you? gmwise 06-23-2009, 09:32 PM Aubrey McClendon...(raising glasses)...is that you? lol Luke 06-23-2009, 09:33 PM What's the deal with getting upset about a company eliminating positions? Why the outrage? Is this just a general anti-corporation response? Anti-wealthy-people? Anti-Mr.-100-million-a-year? kevinpate 06-23-2009, 09:34 PM For those of us who haven't searched broadcast and print media, were there 50 positions locally and 150 elsewhere, only 50 positions, not all filled, locally, or are there 50 none too happy pairs of eyes reviewing resumes today? gmwise 06-23-2009, 09:47 PM I don't trust Aubrey.He sold out his granddads company, because he just cant stand next to a real builder and pioneer.Aubrey then made some seriously bad investments in a huge wine collection, Then being so anti gay and vocal about it, gave a nice large amount towards the reelection of Roth, that didn't end well.. tisk tisk.All those margins calls,bad joss eh I don't trust Clay.he married for a good sized money,is all about I can say. Which means I don't trust The Oklahoman, or Enron on Western. Is Aubrey on my prayer list yea he is. Is Clay? yea but 1st I got my..,I mean interests falls onto AM. If CE's business model doesn't change soon, it will be a empty shell , when BP comes a knocking. ImTheDude 06-23-2009, 10:43 PM That's funny. I come into contact with CHK people occasionally, and every time I talk to them I feel like I've just gotten sucked into an Amway convention. Yeah, its crazy that people enjoy their job and are proud of the company they work for. Just to throw this out there, CHK is still hiring right now. I had a good friend interview there last week. soonerguru 06-23-2009, 11:02 PM Yeah, its crazy that people enjoy their job and are proud of the company they work for. Just to throw this out there, CHK is still hiring right now. I had a good friend interview there last week. This only reinforces my position. We realize Cheseapeake hires and spends money like water. The question is, how are they making any? The price of natural gas is in the toilet right now. Just because "they're hiring" doesn't mean they're fiscally sound. ImTheDude 06-24-2009, 07:32 AM This only reinforces my position. We realize Cheseapeake hires and spends money like water. The question is, how are they making any? The price of natural gas is in the toilet right now. Just because "they're hiring" doesn't mean they're fiscally sound. You do realize that CHK has a lot of NG for 2009 hedged at around $7. A lot of people (like yourself) were knocking them for doing it at the time because NG was around $12. ImTheDude 06-24-2009, 07:45 AM Just because "they're hiring" doesn't mean they're fiscally sound.That wasn't my point. My point was that its not like they are on a hiring freeze and doing massive layoffs. It sucks for people to lose their jobs, but I would be willing to bet that there were quite a few $70K employees that weren't pulling their weight. Kerry 06-24-2009, 08:45 AM ... Then being so anti gay and vocal about it, gave a nice large amount towards the reelection of Roth, that didn't end well... And there it is - the real reason so many libs on here hate CHK and AM. Thanks for owning up to it GMWISE. lasomeday 06-24-2009, 09:23 AM Kerry, I am not a lib, and I hate the evil empire. That is what other companies in the Oil and Gas industry call them. They do underhanded things all the time. They bully landowners and analysts. I have dealt with them many times, and they never cease to amazes me how much they expect you to do what they want, but if you try the same thing on them, they will sue you. They are corrupt and in tons of debt. Most analysts will tell you off the record that they are similar to Enron. They just don't want it in writing. Chesapeake has probably bullied the DO not to publish anything that is not one of their press releases. They will pay off people or threaten them. That is how they operate. ultimatesooner 06-24-2009, 09:55 AM Kerry, I am not a lib, and I hate the evil empire. That is what other companies in the Oil and Gas industry call them. They do underhanded things all the time. They bully landowners and analysts. I have dealt with them many times, and they never cease to amazes me how much they expect you to do what they want, but if you try the same thing on them, they will sue you. They are corrupt and in tons of debt. Most analysts will tell you off the record that they are similar to Enron. They just don't want it in writing. Chesapeake has probably bullied the DO not to publish anything that is not one of their press releases. They will pay off people or threaten them. That is how they operate. strong accusations there LordGerald 06-24-2009, 10:46 AM Kerry, I am not a lib, and I hate the evil empire. That is what other companies in the Oil and Gas industry call them. They do underhanded things all the time. They bully landowners and analysts. I have dealt with them many times, and they never cease to amazes me how much they expect you to do what they want, but if you try the same thing on them, they will sue you. They are corrupt and in tons of debt. Most analysts will tell you off the record that they are similar to Enron. They just don't want it in writing. Chesapeake has probably bullied the DO not to publish anything that is not one of their press releases. They will pay off people or threaten them. That is how they operate. I am a lib, and agree mostly with these sentiments. I, too, have faced similar experiences when dealing with CHK. I don't hate them, but I fear that if we lose them, it will hurt the community enormously. I just want them to be more honest in their media and public relations. soonerguru 06-24-2009, 11:33 AM I personally don't hate Aubrey McClendon. It's hard to hate someone I don't know, for me at least. And while I'm a liberal, I wish Chesapeake much success. I hope they become the biggest and best natural gas behemoth on earth, frankly. The only thing that bothers me is the feel of the company blowing money left and right, then laying off people. Layoff are part of business. I get that. I just don't get all the extravagant spending. OKC does not need another Enron. Hopefully, my fears are completely unfounded, and, as Pete said, "simplistic," and everything is Okey Dokey. If I had been on the bad end of a deal with Chesapeake, I might harbor animosity, but for me there is none. There are a lot of great companies run by people whose politics I disagree with, like Larry Nichols for example. Still, I think he's a stand-up guy and a great businessman and I'm thrilled he's in OKC. I don't view everything through the prism of political ideology, as Kerry seems to suggest. soonerguru 06-24-2009, 11:35 AM You do realize that CHK has a lot of NG for 2009 hedged at around $7. A lot of people (like yourself) were knocking them for doing it at the time because NG was around $12. Great point. But the question remains, are they making any money? Kerry 06-24-2009, 12:47 PM I don't view everything through the prism of political ideology, as Kerry seems to suggest. For the record - one of your fellow liberals cited AM's opposition to the gay agenda as a reason he dislikes AM - not me. I have never dealt with CHK on any level but if there was a company I was doing business with that I thought was treating me wrong I wouldn't do business with them anymore, unless they were paying me a lot of money during the mis-treatment. For enough money I can put up with a lot. But what ever you guys do, stop with the Enron comparisons. It just shows that you don't know what Enron, WorldCom, and Global Crossing were doing. lasomeday 06-24-2009, 04:02 PM When it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, and acts like a duck. ITS A DUCK! ENRON ENRON ENRON! gmwise 06-24-2009, 08:59 PM Kerry, CE is Enron!! do some background research... soonerguru 06-24-2009, 09:54 PM But what ever you guys do, stop with the Enron comparisons. It just shows that you don't know what Enron, WorldCom, and Global Crossing were doing. Slow down, buddy. I admitted my fears might be unfounded. Point: no one here can say with any confidence that the company is making any money. Yet, we know they're spending money exorbitantly. Then, there's this cultish, messianic veneer to their public relations (something far more esoteric than the simple respect that Devon receives. Example: the "we're not just building a company, we're changing lives" persona), that has the FEEL of Enron. I certainly have no reason to believe they're the fraudulent demon Enron became, but there are some mildly creepy associations. Obviously, Chesapeake is a natural gas company, and for the final years of its existence, no one could reasonably explain what Enron was, so there are also major differences. metro 06-25-2009, 08:33 AM I don't trust Aubrey.He sold out his granddads company, because he just cant stand next to a real builder and pioneer.Aubrey then made some seriously bad investments in a huge wine collection, Then being so anti gay and vocal about it, gave a nice large amount towards the reelection of Roth, that didn't end well.. tisk tisk.All those margins calls,bad joss eh I don't trust Clay.he married for a good sized money,is all about I can say. Which means I don't trust The Oklahoman, or Enron on Western. Is Aubrey on my prayer list yea he is. Is Clay? yea but 1st I got my..,I mean interests falls onto AM. If CE's business model doesn't change soon, it will be a empty shell , when BP comes a knocking. What? CHK was founded by Aubrey and Tom Ward in 1989. How did he sell out his grandfather? Throwing Jim Roth into the mix? Clay Bennett? You obviously don't know much about the history of these families. Bennett does not even run the OPUBCO and doesn't have a whole lot of influence over it. The Bennett's had plenty of money before Clay married into the Gaylord family, and what the heck does Bennett have to do with how CHK is run? Microsoft Case Studies: Chesapeake Energy (http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?CaseStudyID=4000002465) About | Chesapeake Energy - America's Champion of Natural Gas (http://www.chk.com/About/Pages/Default.aspx) History | Chesapeake Energy - America's Champion of Natural Gas (http://www.chk.com/About/Pages/History.aspx) Chesapeake Energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_Energy) onthestrip 06-25-2009, 09:24 AM Clay Bennett? You obviously don't know much about the history of these families. Bennett does not even run the OPUBCO and doesn't have a whole lot of influence over it. Come on metro. Aubrey and Bennet are business partners, bennet is married to Mrs. Opubco. You don't think that has some affect on how the Oklahoman reports on CHK? Right... metro 06-25-2009, 10:20 AM Yes I do believe it has SOME affect, but not as much as people keep whining about. I worked for OPUBCO in the past, and Bennett sure didn't have much pull from my observation. Yes, they co-own a BASKETBALL team together, but Bennett and even his wife don't have a lot of influence on the paper. Furthermore, that's not even the point of what I was arguing. Gmwise was stating that Aubrey ruined his "grandfathers" company. Everything I've read states CHK was co-founded by Aubrey and Tom Ward with $50,000 back in 1989, a far cry from a long time family institution that was ruined by a spoiled grandchild. Furthermore, what the heck does Jim Roth and Bennett have to do with the topic of hand, of the 50 layoffs CHK recently had? In regards to the topic that has another thread (Oklahoman bias), I'm sure Steve could chime in somewhat on how much pull Bennett really has or does not have. OKCTalker 06-25-2009, 11:26 AM So much blather here: CHK is making money/No they're not. It's just like Enron/No it isn't. Aubrey is a bad guy/No he isn't. It's sounding more like a couple of six-year-olds (He started it/No I didn't). If they're making money (or not), cite an annual report or K-1. If they're like Enron, give specific and meaningful comparisons (criminal indictments, convictions, charges filed, evidence of market or regulatory manipulation, or give us an update on the four bonus-related lawsuits). If Aubrey is a bad guy, qualify that charge - Is Katie walking around with bruises, are his kids not making grades, is he not paying his taxes or his bills, is he causing problems with planning/zoning departments, is he welching on charitable pledges? This board and most of its posters & readers are above a "did not/did too" mentality. You can't cast doubt by simply invoking the Sonics, Jim Roth, wine, ancestry, industry cycles or employment numbers. Put up or shut up. |