Is Braum's better about actually adding the malt than Sonic is? I've given up ordering a malt at Sonic, apparently malts and shakes are the same thing to them. Haven't even tried for a couple years after a manager came out to explain to me that there wasn't a difference.

To be fair, I don't think Sonic has advertised a malt in awhile, but they really should say "we no longer offer malts" instead of telling people they are the same.

@stile99 Braums never has an issue with asking for double malt. In fact, you could probably ask for triple or quadruple malt. On a couple of occasions I've asked for some of the malt powder to take home and they obliged at no cost. p.s. I used to really like Braums hamburgers but I guess I haven't had one since they apparently shifted to a smaller size. If that is the only change they made, I don't think it would be a major disappointment to me.

@ctchandler: The idea of malt in a Coke sounds just as decent as a Hollywood Coke. Remember Hollywood Cokes? Coca-Cola with Vanilla flavoring. Not bad at all. But when it comes to the rare soft drink I prefer plain Dr. Pepper or Sprite.

@ctchandler: The idea of malt in a Coke.
RM,
Not malt in a coke, but coke in a malted drink as an additive. Try it, it's excellent. I agree, malt powder in a glass of Coca Cola doesn't sound good to me either. They just make a normal vanilla ice cream malt and add some coke.
C. T.

But the truth is, all their locations seem to be busy almost all the time.

So, no matter how messy and dated the stores and how poor the service, people still flock.

I complain too but I go an awful lot.

True, and that momentum may be what they're counting on...but I think of folks like my own family...we were very much Braum's regulars, went out of our way to pick up their milk and ice cream, but at some point - and I can't pinpoint exactly when - the value proposition kinda turned. When the waits got longer and the stores got, well, nastier, I think we finally just decided it wasn't worth it anymore. Am I saying we never do Braum's anymore? Not at all. But do we visit there with the same frequency we did, say, five, or ten years ago? Not even close. And I have to think we're not *that* exceptional in our behavior.

Then again, WalMart has made billions with stores that haven't seemingly been cleaned in a decade, so perhaps that's the most persuasive counterpoint against the "someday they'll have to change" argument.

Dang. Someone pressed the Braums Button. Imagine that. =~)
Just checkin' in t' see what my condition is in . . . =~)

Visiting The Local Braums is what could be described as an exercise in observation, patience, loyalty and gratitude. This is especially true should you choose to visit The Original Service Counter. The one inside the Local Store.

Without getting all "religious" or whatever, a visit to the Local Braums can be nearly Zen-like in its levels of experience and meaning. If, that is, you shift your perspective for a few brief moments in time and roll with the flow.

In the interests of complete transparency, I must admit that I am totally biased in favor of Braums Milk. Even the fat free variety. In fact, only the fat free variety. It's the only milk I will drink. Because it is just that good. In my humble opinion. And my wife shares my opinion. =~)

I also lean favorably in the direction of the offerings of Braums in the mini grocery store area. This section was added to the original local building more than a few years ago. I can say with complete confidence and without fear of contradiction that if you can't put together a decent, tasty, home-cooked (or re-heated) meal from what they offer in that area of the store, (while you are there to pick up a gallon of milk) then apparently actual "cooking" resides outside of your skill set.

The only real "problem" or "opportunity for improvement" seems to be--in my humble opinion only (imhoo)--the effective management of the customer traffic at the "original" counter (that is the counter immediately adjacent to the drive-thru). This is where the burgers and treats--that made Braum's famous in the first place--are served. Maybe twice a month I visit that counter in search of The Perfect Malts. Without exception, I encounter a "traffic jam." The Perfect Malts are at about 80% Perfect. =~)

That being said, I think I can state, without fear of meaningful objections or contradictions, that "the problem" or "room for improvement" (inside the store) is essentially caused by a Customer Conflict regarding Sign-age, Line-age, Lay-out and Man-ners. Again, this "room for improvement" exists only inside the store should you choose to go for a "treat" rather than simple milk and groceries . . . and aren't particularly fond of Drive-Thrus (because of the unnecessary carbon emmisions and so forth involved in that line of thinking).

In other words, the dangling signs, above the counter, with information and directions about where to order what and how to pay for it, seem to serve only to cause confusion, hold up the flow of commerce and sort of detract from the overall experience. They also test the concept of Manners, which is not necessarily a bad thing. This minor glitch in directing and moving in-store customers through the purchase process could very easily be corrected. All it would involve would be adjusting the signage and providing a waiting area for those seeking ice cream treats that doesn't involve blocking the ordering line.

It would also probably help to improve the morale of all those kids (excuse me: Youngsters/Young People)--some, perhaps, on their very first job ever--doing the very best they can to provide ice cream treats and burgers, within a matrix of controlled chaos and rude customers under the instruction, guidance and direction of a couple of seasoned supervisors, who are also doing the very best they can: To make People Greatful. And Happy.

btw: Even if you only hit the Treat and Burger Counter (at the local Braums) a couple of times a month, the perfect recipe for a couple of perfect malts (shared with two of the on-site managers who apparently got the concept and shared it with the kids) goes something like this: "Two Medium Malts. One Chocolate. One Vanilla. Double Malt. Thin." (It's like code. The ice cream balances out the no fat milk =~)

Rad, I appreciate the thoughtful post and the position you're advocating, but for me I don't think a few signs is going to make up for dirty, understaffed stores, and I won't say I've encountered rudeness from a Braum's staffer - and I think its a cautionary notion to imply that negative perception is being driven primarily (or even significantly?) by rude customers. Every retail presence has to deal with rude customers; that's just a fact of life. Doesn't make it right; it's just life. And I can honestly say I've not had any personal, one-on-one "bad experiences" with a hostile/rude/disrespectful/(insert your favorite similar word here) Braum's employee - my observations are more general about the Braum's stores I've visited/frequented over the years. It's just a direction I sense, that's all.

I guess I contrast the way I see Braum's going against how something like Chick-Fil-A is run; their stores are almost always clean, their service people seemingly always have a pleasant demeanor, and seem genuinely pleased to serve you. That's integrated into their company ethos. For Braum's it seems an afterthought - if it's considered at all. And, as I said, I don't think signage will fix that.

True, and that momentum may be what they're counting on...but I think of folks like my own family...we were very much Braum's regulars, went out of our way to pick up their milk and ice cream, but at some point - and I can't pinpoint exactly when - the value proposition kinda turned. When the waits got longer and the stores got, well, nastier, I think we finally just decided it wasn't worth it anymore. Am I saying we never do Braum's anymore? Not at all. But do we visit there with the same frequency we did, say, five, or ten years ago? Not even close. And I have to think we're not *that* exceptional in our behavior.

Then again, WalMart has made billions with stores that haven't seemingly been cleaned in a decade, so perhaps that's the most persuasive counterpoint against the "someday they'll have to change" argument.

I think what keeps Braums going is low competition in the market, good geographic placement of stores, Market fresh grocery which goes along with geographic placement, along with serving breakfast. This last one is pretty big when you consider the two closest competitors mentioned below don't have breakfast.

Freddys and DQ are the closest competitors, but really they are significantly outnumber by Braums stores in the OKC market.

I guess I contrast the way I see Braum's going against how something like Chick-Fil-A is run; their stores are almost always clean, their service people seemingly always have a pleasant demeanor, and seem genuinely pleased to serve you. That's integrated into their company ethos.
It most definitely comes from the top down. My middle son was an assistant manager of a Chick-Fil-A for several years while getting his property management business off the ground, and he tells me that although most of the local stores are franchise operations, corporate management insists on high standards and nobody can simply put up the cash and get a franchise. Competition for any opening is extremely stiff, and corporate sends folk around the country to verify that standards are being met in daily operation. One may differ with the political position of the chain's founders (who retain control) but they definitely insist on good customer service.

Braum's stores, OTOH, are company-owned and apparently have no oversight. It's all up to each store manager to set the tone, so there's no consistency. Unfortunately. I agree with Rad that their milk is the very best, but everything else seems to be going down a very slippery slope!

I find the huge majority of the problems (dated, messy stores) are solved by going through the drive-through.

Can't get everything that way of course but I mind waiting less in the comfort of my own car and really, they are relatively quick.

It most definitely comes from the top down. My middle son was an assistant manager of a Chick-Fil-A for several years while getting his property management business off the ground, and he tells me that although most of the local stores are franchise operations, corporate management insists on high standards and nobody can simply put up the cash and get a franchise. Competition for any opening is extremely stiff, and corporate sends folk around the country to verify that standards are being met in daily operation. One may differ with the political position of the chain's founders (who retain control) but they definitely insist on good customer service.

Braum's stores, OTOH, are company-owned and apparently have no oversight. It's all up to each store manager to set the tone, so there's no consistency. Unfortunately. I agree with Rad that their milk is the very best, but everything else seems to be going down a very slippery slope!

Everything comes down from Corporate. That is part of the problem with Braums Managers have no control of their stores. Braums expect their stores to run the same way at every location which isn't possible. They have a set of rules for every store. Not every store is going to have the same needs. Managers are in crew positions from the time they walk into work until the time they leave.

Everything comes down from Corporate. That is part of the problem with Braums Managers have no control of their stores. Braums expect their stores to run the same way at every location which isn't possible. They have a set of rules for every store. Not every store is going to have the same needs. Managers are in crew positions from the time they walk into work until the time they leave.

Chick-fil-a says "hi." Heck, so does old-school McDonald's

If Braum's has the rules. They need to enforce them. That's the whole point. I just refuse to believe that a manager is so constrained by corporate minutiae that he or she can't tell someone to pick up a mop and clean the floors and tables when they need attention. As has been discussed here, some stores are nice, others are abysmal. If Braum's has the rules from a corporate level, they're not being imposed uniformly, and to me that necessarily implies that a bunch of managers are *not* being strangled by some notion of an overarching Braum's control structure.

The whole point of the corporate structure is consistency. Even when you have franchise owners involved, things certainly shouldn't very to much from manager to manager.

Every store will have its own personal challenges due to geographic location, but customers expect the same level of service at each location.

If stores have dramatically different needs, something is wrong.

I don't think there's any room to doubt that something is definitely wrong with customer servic e across the Braum's outlets in my area (four of them and each seems to follow a different set of rules). The question, simply put, is "What is it?"

Big building permit application today to remodel the Braum's on May near Hefner.

Everything comes down from Corporate. That is part of the problem with Braums Managers have no control of their stores. Braums expect their stores to run the same way at every location which isn't possible. They have a set of rules for every store. Not every store is going to have the same needs. Managers are in crew positions from the time they walk into work until the time they leave.
The quickest way to kill a chain operation is to let managers and franchisees freelance. It almost killed Sonic until it consolidated ownership with Steve Linn enforcing standards and meathods. Multi unit food operations MUST be consistent from store to store.

Big building permit application today to remodel the Braum's on May near Hefner.

Good. That store is in desperate need of a makeover.

It still has "No Smoking" signs up at some tables, IIRC.

Everything comes down from Corporate. That is part of the problem with Braums Managers have no control of their stores. Braums expect their stores to run the same way at every location which isn't possible. They have a set of rules for every store. Not every store is going to have the same needs. Managers are in crew positions from the time they walk into work until the time they leave.


ive been saying this for years about any business you cant cookie cut stores and businesses they dont all run the same way

ive been saying this for years about any business you cant cookie cut stores and businesses they dont all run the same way

McDonald's would beg to differ. So would Burger King, Taco Bell, etc etc.

You can absolutely impose the same standards and expectations from every store. Every store should be clean. Every store should be neat and orderly. That's not some MBA insight - it's common sense. The local managers aren't getting it done because Braums higher-ups aren't asserting the rules - and that's a disservice to those managers.

ive been saying this for years about any business you cant cookie cut stores and businesses they dont all run the same way

Depends on what you mean by "don't all run the same way". The term best practices comes to mind. Some stores may sell more ice cream than food or vice versa, but than you would scale up those areas appropriately. There shouldn't be any major deviations to how a store is run especially when talking about stores in the same city.

ive been saying this for years about any business you cant cookie cut stores and businesses they dont all run the same way

Absolutely not true. Franchising depends on consistency and reliability. Standards and systems HAVE TO BE defined and enforced. As a local example, some years back Sonic was almost fatally damaged by individual operators not following any real standards and systems. Steve Linn bought it with Art Linkletter, developed close standards, forced everyone to follow them, and completely turned around the business to create the modern and now very successful chain Sonic is.

Clarification time.

I'm hearing (well, reading) conflicting reports about Braum's and their awful new milkshakes.

On this thread, I've read that if you *request* whole milk in your milkshake, they'll make it that way. Otherwise, you get some yogurt/skim milk crap. I've read in some other places that they are now REFUSING to make shakes to order that way - you get the crap or you get nothing.

Has anyone been told by Braum's staffers they will NOT make a shake with whole milk?

If Braum's truly is heading this direction, they should fold up their tents and quit. Some other outfit should come in here and circle buzzard-like the dead carcass that will become Braum's and start selling "real" milkshakes and advertise the crap out of it...

i haven't tried asking... but honestly, i can't tell a ton of difference in the shakes since the change.

i will say this, though... this past week, i thought i'd try a chocolate shake made with vanilla ice cream and chocolate syrup... some places do this as the standard and some as a special request. when i asked for it at braum's, they opted to charge me $1 extra for a few squirts of syrup... literally NONE of the other places I've requested this have charged extra. just seems to me that braum's doesn't know the first thing about customer service.

Clarification time.

I'm hearing (well, reading) conflicting reports about Braum's and their awful new milkshakes.

On this thread, I've read that if you *request* whole milk in your milkshake, they'll make it that way. Otherwise, you get some yogurt/skim milk crap. I've read in some other places that they are now REFUSING to make shakes to order that way - you get the crap or you get nothing.

Has anyone been told by Braum's staffers they will NOT make a shake with whole milk?

If Braum's truly is heading this direction, they should fold up their tents and quit. Some other outfit should come in here and circle buzzard-like the dead carcass that will become Braum's and start selling "real" milkshakes and advertise the crap out of it...

I got a milkshake a week or so ago. It was awful. I remembered folks in this thread recommending to request with whole milk, so when my wife made a run the other night I told her to specifically request whole milk, which she did.

They either ignored her, or the milkshakes are just that awful they couldn't be helped by whole milk. The shake was just as awful as the previous one.

I will not be buying milkshakes from Braum's anymore. Probably a good thing for my health, in any case, not that I had them very often to begin with.

The orange sherbert freezes from Braum's are still as good as ever.

Unfortunately.

I am next door to a Braum's as I type, so I figured I'd test this new revelation at the Hefner and Rockwell location.

I asked for a junior chocolate milkshake, and requested whole milk. I indeed got it that way with no issue—whole milk into the cup and chocolate ice cream. No extra charge in this case. Can't remember if syrup was default before. So there's a win!

I am next door to a Braum's as I type, so I figured I'd test this new revelation at the Hefner and Rockwell location.

I asked for a junior chocolate milkshake, and requested whole milk. I indeed got it that way with no issue—whole milk into the cup and chocolate ice cream. No extra charge in this case. Can't remember if syrup was default before. So there's a win!

That's great to hear. Sounds to me like some managers are just managing each Braum's however they want. Geez, where have we heard that before (in this thread)??

I wonder if a friendly, respectful customer letter to Braum's management would have any effect? This management chasm can't continue indefinitely. Eventually, those chickens will come home to roost.

I'm hearing (well, reading) conflicting reports about Braum's and their awful new milkshakes.

...I've read in some other places that they are now REFUSING to make shakes to order that way - you get the crap or you get nothing.

Has anyone been told by Braum's staffers they will NOT make a shake with whole milk?
...

I forgot to ask: where are you reading this? I was wanting to look into this for myself. In the past, I definitely run into some conflicts with requests at different stores, usually involving an uninterested new employee and most often being corrected by a shift manager.

I forgot to ask: where are you reading this? I was wanting to look into this for myself. In the past, I definitely run into some conflicts with requests at different stores, usually involving an uninterested new employee and most often being corrected by a shift manager.
Here (http://www.landthieves.com/board/showthread.php?116778-WTH-is-up-w-Braum%E2%80%99s-shakes-malts&p=3412828&viewfull=1#post3412828)

That's very good; thank you.

That's great to hear. Sounds to me like some managers are just managing each Braum's however they want. Geez, where have we heard that before (in this thread)??

I wonder if a friendly, respectful customer letter to Braum's management would have any effect? This management chasm can't continue indefinitely. Eventually, those chickens will come home to roost.
A good friend of mine did that very thing. He sent an e-mail to Drew Braum. He got a response, but, not from Drew Braum. Probably from a person in management below him. My friend and I were of the belief that the Braum's burgers were hard to beat for the value and quality. I used to work with him in the summer, and we would grab a Braum's burger at least twice a week when we were in the field. I had informed him about the downsizing of the burgers and no price reduction. Well, of course he tried them too, and agreed with me and others, the size was obviously different, but, quality as well. He found that within a 2 mile radius of his house, south OKC, there were now 8 other burger places where he could get a burger better than the new Braum's version for basically same price. He informed them of that in his e-mail. The response was that Braum's always prides themselves on the quality and value of their items and believed the adding of a shake with the burgers offset the downsizing on the burgers themselves. In the end, the response said if he felt he could get a better value and quality elsewhere, to please do so.

Makes me wonder if their business model is shifting their profit toward the ice cream and grocery products, implying they don't care so much about what is thought of their sandwiches. Or their dirty stores....

Well this is absolute f**king ****.

If you want it thick, just ask them. Every one I go to gladly makes mine super thick.

We're just talking one store here, but after the 2nd time I was wondering what was up. In my experience, malts and shakes from Braum's have always been thick, no matter which store I visited. ... You shouldn't have to ask.

I moved all the Classen Circle discussion to a new thread:

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=43482

I am officially done with braums. I stopped by one this morning in Kansas and asked if I could have a shake made the old way. The guy refused to make it and said managers have been told from corporate to only stick to the new recipe.

I politely told him I was no longer interested in purchasing a shake as the new ones are terrible. So if they won't listen to the customers I am not interested in giving them my money.

I went to one in Edmond a couple of days ago to get one for one of my son's and daughter. I asked for it to be made the old way and the young guy behind the counter hesitantly said yes. He looked like he didn't know if he should and like he didn't want to but also didn't want to deal with telling a customer no. He was put in a bad situation. He probably didn't want to make his superiors mad but had probably dealt with other customers getting mad about not making it the old way.

The more time passes, the more likely people will start running into Braum's employees who just don't know what the "old way" is or that there even was an "old way" to make shakes.

The more time passes, the more likely people will start running into Braum's employees who just don't know what the "old way" is or that there even was an "old way" to make shakes.

Yup. Try going into a Subway today and asking for the "V-cut" or "U-gouge". By now you're pretty much guaranteed to have to explain it, and odds are very low you'll get it even after explaining it.

Depends on what you mean by "don't all run the same way". The term best practices comes to mind. Some stores may sell more ice cream than food or vice versa, but than you would scale up those areas appropriately. There shouldn't be any major deviations to how a store is run especially when talking about stores in the same city.

Exactly this. When I worked as a manager for Arby's, I actually worked for a franchisee - US Beef Corp. We had a *huge* book given to us by Arby's corporate called the Operations Standards Manual, that explained every thing that Arby's corporate expected of any of their branded stores, including standardized recipes, equipment, and procedures for many tasks in the store. Franchisees had some control over customizing their menus to suit local tastes with recipes marked "Optional", but others were required items. Additionally, most equipment required listed a few approved models within different price ranges, allowing a franchisee to acquire the equipment that is most suitable for them within the limitations set by Corporate. Any policies and procedures in that manual were strictly required (if they applied to your location, of course; like standards and procedures for locations with outdoor seating, locations without a drive thru, etc). Corporate would also conduct regular audits to ensure the OSM was being followed, and any deviation was expected to be corrected within a short time frame. This ensured a consistent customer experience from store to store, even though menu items and store amenities might be different. This is the kind of standardization that Braum's desperately needs - along with a culture shift to ensure everyone is on the same standards page.

A bit more I heard about the Braum's shake fiasco: They've now concocted a 'milk syrup' potion that they ship to stores specifically to make milkshakes. The idea was to cut down on each store's consumption of inventoried milk (?). Nothing to do with taste, nothing to do with quality. Don't know if this is true or not, but if it's now a corporate thing it makes sense why they'd impose it downstream.

People have to get serious about not tolerating this garbage as customers and not just let it keep going. Customers used to mean something.

It's a shame as I used to buy their shakes at least 2-3 times a week when I lived in OKC. I absolutely loved them, best shake available.

This new one is simply terrible and after today's interaction I am no longer going to even try to get a classic shake. If they would give the option of a classic shake, made the old way at a higher price I would gladly pay a premium. That seems like it could be a win-win for them if they are worried about milk inventory usage. The cheaper, new recipe could be the standard price shake, and a classic could cost an extra $1 for the trouble. I doubt they would even consider that.

I emailed Braum's to petition them to at least consider the option of adding classic shakes to the menu. Their response:


Dear xxxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email and interest in Braum’s Ice Cream and Dairy.
Instead of using reduced fat milk to make shakes, we are now using more concentrated fat free milk. We have also removed the added sugar from the mix. This provides a higher protein, healthier product and improves the speed of making a shake. Once again, thank you for your comments. We appreciate your business and the opportunity to continue to earn it.

Sincerely,
K. Manwell
Customer Service

I emailed Braum's to petition them to at least consider the option of adding classic shakes to the menu. Their response:

I'm done with their shakes. I used to love them, now they just taste artificial. Good thing for my health, in any case.

I'm done with their shakes. I used to love them, now they just taste artificial. Good thing for my health, in any case.

Nonsense. Over the course of a normal lifetime, I'd defy anyone to say that an occasional milkshake has *any* appreciable impact on lifespan one way or the other. But we've been culturally brainwashed to *believe* it does, at the behest of advertisers selling us synthetic yet supposedly "healthier" alternatives. Moderation in all things is the answer, like it always has been.

That depends entirely on how occasional. Two or three a week is probably a good way to gain a lot of weight over time.

Nonsense. Over the course of a normal lifetime, I'd defy anyone to say that an occasional milkshake has *any* appreciable impact on lifespan one way or the other. But we've been culturally brainwashed to *believe* it does, at the behest of advertisers selling us synthetic yet supposedly "healthier" alternatives. Moderation in all things is the answer, like it always has been.

Well, I probably would have 1-2 per week in stretches, and as a person with little self-control over eating, anything that causes me to cut back on sugar and fat is a good thing. It's just one more thing I won't feel compelled to eat. Now we have a Dairy Queen nearby, I can revisit the Oreo Blizzard. Hopefully, it's terrible, too. :)

That depends entirely on how occasional. Two or three a week is probably a good way to gain a lot of weight over time.

That depends on your metabolism and activity level. You could have a sky-high metabolism such that a high-calorie intake is burned up quickly and never get converted to fat. Like I said, it's all about moderation. Lots of factors in play. I've just never been a fan of the "villain food theology" that is so trendy these days.

My point is that I'm tired of the restaurants *forcing* their view of "healthy." Give me *options* and let *me*, the *customer* make the choice. Show me you want my *business* and not just my *money*. Big difference. Wouldn't be an ounce of hassle off Braum's life to offer a regular shake and a "lite" shake, although shaving calories off a shake in and of itself is kind of asinine IMHO.

Am I in bizarro world. Why would Braums want to try to make a healthier shake? People going to Braums know the milk shake is not considered healthy. People would go to Braums for a great tasting shake.

I think McDonald's has finally learned this.... Saw an article recently where they are removing a lot of the "healthy" items from their menu and introducing some new calorie bomb items in an attempt to draw people in during non-peak times.

That depends on your metabolism and activity level. You could have a sky-high metabolism such that a high-calorie intake is burned up quickly and never get converted to fat. Like I said, it's all about moderation. Lots of factors in play. I've just never been a fan of the "villain food theology" that is so trendy these days.

My point is that I'm tired of the restaurants *forcing* their view of "healthy." Give me *options* and let *me*, the *customer* make the choice. Show me you want my *business* and not just my *money*. Big difference. Wouldn't be an ounce of hassle off Braum's life to offer a regular shake and a "lite" shake, although shaving calories off a shake in and of itself is kind of asinine IMHO.

I am not talking about villain foods in the slightest. A Braum's shake is almost certainly the better part of a thousand calories, and the addition of that several times a week is going to be enough to make the vast majority of people fat over time.

Of course, whatever Braum's has done to their shakes has probably not addressed that problem directly, unless you count ruining the recipe to the point where people order fewer shakes.

That depends entirely on how occasional. Two or three a week is probably a good way to gain a lot of weight over time.

Depends on your body. Anyone who knows me knows my metabolism is hyper active. I have weighed within 145-155 lbs for probably close to 10 years now. Doesn't matter what I eat or how much, I have always remained slender. That might change in the future, and I will adjust my diet when it does, but I am enjoying it now.

I think McDonald's has finally learned this.... Saw an article recently where they are removing a lot of the "healthy" items from their menu and introducing some new calorie bomb items in an attempt to draw people in during non-peak times.

They are just throwing darts in the dark. They apparently have no idea how to correct things. We're not asking for calorie bomb items. We've all said it in this thread many times before. It's not complex. Keep the things that already worked quite well, shakes, ice cream, milk. Fix the things that didn't work, customer service, dirty restaurants, soggy burgers.

Depends on your body. Anyone who knows me knows my metabolism is hyper active. I have weighed within 145-155 lbs for probably close to 10 years now. Doesn't matter what I eat or how much, I have always remained slender. That might change in the future, and I will adjust my diet when it does, but I am enjoying it now.

Exactly what I'm talking about.

I am not talking about villain foods in the slightest. A Braum's shake is almost certainly the better part of a thousand calories, and the addition of that several times a week is going to be enough to make the vast majority of people fat over time.

Of course, whatever Braum's has done to their shakes has probably not addressed that problem directly, unless you count ruining the recipe to the point where people order fewer shakes.

I was really just thinking of the "'healthy' food" notion in general, not so much the particulars of a shake or whatever. But if you're dealing with "several" milkshakes a week, you're already outside the "moderation" notion I talked about LOL :)

I couldn't even tell you the last *year* I had *one* milkshake. Not saying I haven't stolen a spoonful from something my 19-year-old has picked up at Sonic (chocolate custard concretes, omigosh), but as far as downing a single shake myself...wow. Been years.

The more time passes, the more likely people will start running into Braum's employees who just don't know what the "old way" is or that there even was an "old way" to make shakes.

What's crazy is that at Taco Bell - which surely has a more controlled corporate structure than Braum's - you can ask for old off-menu items - cheesarito, enchirito, chili cheese burrito, etc. - and 9 times out of 10 they will make them perfectly and without comment. One time out of ten the person taking the order has to ask someone else how to ring it or how it should be made, but they just do it. Because you are the customer.

Braums always did enough things right to counter all the things they did wrong. Their burgers were pretty good, their ice cream and shakes were *really* good. That made up for the grungy stores and the bad service. I haven't gone there since these changes. I don't know that I will go back, unless it's to get a banana split or something like that. There are too many other places that make better burgers to mess around with Braums anymore.

What's crazy is that at Taco Bell - which surely has a more controlled corporate structure than Braum's - you can ask for old off-menu items - cheesarito, enchirito, chili cheese burrito, etc. - and 9 times out of 10 they will make them perfectly and without comment. One time out of ten the person taking the order has to ask someone else how to ring it or how it should be made, but they just do it. Because you are the customer.

Part of that, though, is Taco Bell is the master of inventing new menu items from the same bunch of ingredients that are also used elsewhere. The original incarnation of the Beefy Crunch Burrito was created to move more of the red chile-lime tortilla strips that were also used in the taco salad, for instance. From the way it's been described, Braum's is trying to move away from using revenue milk (the gallons sold on the shelf) and toward bulk-packaged milk instead, which saves on packaging costs. If they settled on only having extra-condensed skim available in the dispenser, an individual employee can't just go crack open a gallon or half gallon that would otherwise have been sold to a customer, partially because it would even further impact speed of service, partially because it would affect inventory, and partially because that would be more expensive for the store. I'm quite sure if there were other menu items that necessitated keeping a half gallon or gallon of regular milk on the bar, they would have little problem with using it to make you a custom shake - but I don't think that's the case here.

I'm not saying I like what they're doing, I'm just saying I understand from a management perspective.

Meh. If I want a milkshake I'm going to Tucker's anyway.

Meh. If I want a milkshake I'm going to Tucker's anyway.

No doubt.... And a burger!