Just out of curiosity, where is that Braum's? I've never been to one that had more than one window for the drive-thru, and haven't seen a penalty box at any of them either -- although both features are common at many McDonald's sites (I think the two-window design is now standard for them)...

Jim, it was in Muskogee at 701 S. 32nd (Hwy 64/69).

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever again!

I'm not the most frequent drive-thru user, so this may be a silly question, but what is a "penalty box" in this context?

I'm not the most frequent drive-thru user, so this may be a silly question, but what is a "penalty box" in this context?

if a drive-thru customer's order will take a long time to complete, some restaurants will direct them to a designated waiting area instead of holding up all of the other customers. -M

if a drive-thru customer's order will take a long time to complete, some restaurants will direct them to a designated waiting area instead of holding up all of the other customers. -M

Also known as the color coded trouble makers hidey hole.

I prefer malts too.... How many of you drank malted milk as a kid?

Husband likes malts but they taste nasty, to me.

I had a similar experience as tomokc at the Braums in Ardmore. I guarantee you we waited in the drive thru line for 45 minutes, we get to the window and I said something about the wait and the kid started crying. I called corporate and complained and stayed away from Braums for a few months. I've been to other drive thrus with no problems. ..just think they were shorthanded.
My folks lived out by the NE 63/Bryant Braums and we'd swing by with the kids to get a shake for their Grandma when we'd visit. Their drive through Lane was a trap you couldn't escape from and they were super, super slow. Mom loved those shakes but what a pain.

My folks lived out by the NE 63/Bryant Braums and we'd swing by with the kids to get a shake for their Grandma when we'd visit. Their drive through Lane was a trap you couldn't escape from and they were super, super slow. Mom loved those shakes but what a pain.

Your statement was "spot-on". Their products are good, but not worth the pain to go through it.

Someone stated previously that the "parking lots are full and they always have a FULL line at the drive thru". You are correct, they get you in there and you can't get out!

Those of us here in S Norman are just lucky I guess. Lindsey St location is rarely backed up even though business is very steady. Most likely there needs to be some evaluation of the management at the locations that are under performing. I'm still not going to slam an entire chain based on isolated locations. The BK on 12th and Alameda here in Norman had is waiting 40 minutes for food at one point. Everything got comped. Taco Bell on Lindsey and 12th always seems to screw orders up. With both of those examples I can still find another location that I've had quality service from. Fix the problems but the constant moaning of people that aren't actually reaching out to the company to get the issues addressed doesn't really solve anything.

Lines are slower because everyone and their dog gets shakes with their meals. If you have been through the inside ice cream line you see there is a little bit to making the shake. Guess they could switch to pre-made shakes to hurry up the line but I'm pretty sure that would put them out of business.

Easy beat me to it....it's the shakes that slows everything down, it hand dipped not soft serve.

Lines are slower because everyone and their dog gets shakes with their meals. If you have been through the inside ice cream line you see there is a little bit to making the shake. Guess they could switch to pre-made shakes to hurry up the line but I'm pretty sure that would put them out of business.

Hey Easy, but this has happened to me when I go inside the store, ..walk up to the counter, ...try to make eye contact w/ the 12 year old behind the counter, and order a Dbl dip of Chocolate Almond? Please tell me why he gets that "frozen look" when he looks back at the register? ....and then tells me "sir, we are out of that flavor"? I ask, How long have you been out of Chocolate Almond? He tells me, "over a week." I then I ask him, "did the truck not stop here this morning?" "yes it did." Did it stop here yesterday? "yes it did." I tell him, "it stops here every day doesn't it?" He said, "yes sir". What is on the truck when it makes deliveries? ...he said "ice cream & milk". (I give up).

Hey Easy, but this has happened to me when I go inside the store, ..walk up to the counter, ...try to make eye contact w/ the 12 year old behind the counter, and order a Dbl dip of Chocolate Almond? Please tell me why he gets that "frozen look" when he looks back at the register? ....and then tells me "sir, we are out of that flavor"? I ask, How long have you been out of Chocolate Almond? He tells me, "over a week." I then I ask him, "did the truck not stop here this morning?" "yes it did." Did it stop here yesterday? "yes it did." I tell him, "it stops here every day doesn't it?" He said, "yes sir". What is on the truck when it makes deliveries? ...he said "ice cream & milk". (I give up).

Doesn't sound like you were talking to the employee in charge of placing inventory orders. Could be mismanagement, could be the flavor wasn't available at the plant or it could be they were in the process of discontinuing that flavor.

Either way it doesn't do any good to grill a front line employee on their inventory.

Doesn't sound like you were talking to the employee in charge of placing inventory orders. Could be mismanagement, could be the flavor wasn't available at the plant or it could be they were in the process of discontinuing that flavor.

Either way it doesn't do any good to grill a front line employee on their inventory.

Well, it doesn't sound like anyone was ordering anything. Mismanagement, that is a "constant" not the exception. The flavor is a staple of theirs, it's not one they have to "re-structure" the production line for a special run of Chocolate Almond (and it is in the 1 gal. in the freezer section, btw).

Grilling the front-line employee? ...I had great hopes for that flavor. That wasn't "grilling", I was a customer asking about a product(s) availability.

FWIW, I know there is a large fleet of trucks that leave the plant each day with Ice Cream & Milk on them, ...they can't blame it on someone not "shipping" them the right one. Only themselves to blame. Their plant, their trucks traveling less than 30 miles, their ordering process.

It is the norm....like you said Easy, Mismanagement. I agree w/ you and so many others do so as well.

Well, it doesn't sound like anyone was ordering anything. Mismanagement, that is a "constant" not the exception. The flavor is a staple of theirs, it's not one they have to "re-structure" the production line for a special run of Chocolate Almond (and it is in the 1 gal. in the freezer section, btw).

Grilling the front-line employee? ...I had great hopes for that flavor. That wasn't "grilling", I was a customer asking about a product(s) availability.

FWIW, I know there is a large fleet of trucks that leave the plant each day with Ice Cream & Milk on them, ...they can't blame it on someone not "shipping" them the right one. Only themselves to blame. Their plant, their trucks traveling less than 30 miles, their ordering process.

It is the norm....like you said Easy, Mismanagement. I agree w/ you and so many others do so as well.

Works for me. Get back with us if you encounter a situation where they run out of milk or burgers. Being out of one ice cream flavor isn't very damning

Works for me. Get back with us if you encounter a situation where they run out of milk or burgers. Being out of one ice cream flavor isn't very damning

Easy you may not be that aware of Braum's and what they offer. They sell Ice Cream ( is made from MILK). I was just giving you an example.

Braum's as an organization, has issues. They are losing market-share to the others now.... Steak & Shake / Freddy's / Sonic / and now DQ. I don't have to get that upset anymore, I have options now.

Easy you may not be that aware of Braum's and what they offer. They sell Ice Cream ( is made from MILK). I was just giving you an example.

Braum's as an organization, has issues. They are losing market-share to the others now.... Steak & Shake / Freddy's / Sonic / and now DQ. I don't have to get that upset anymore, I have options now.

Well, I'm glad your just now noticing Sonic and Freddy's since they have been here awhile now. Maybe you will be a happier person. I personally hope DQ isn't forced out of the OKC market again as I like their blizzards.

. I personally hope DQ isn't forced out of the OKC market again as I like their blizzards.

Wasn't that due to mismanagement? lol

Wasn't that due to mismanagement? lol

Yes it was. And Braum's in not imune to the situation either. Braum's corporate direction ( or lack there of ) is stagnant. Their brand is still stuck in the 80's.

Easy you may not be that aware of Braum's and what they offer. They sell Ice Cream ( is made from MILK). I was just giving you an example.

Braum's as an organization, has issues. They are losing market-share to the others now.... Steak & Shake / Freddy's / Sonic / and now DQ. I don't have to get that upset anymore, I have options now.

How much market share, OK? Would really like to see the numbers behind that. Drops in same-store sales, gross revenues, etc. Would really help paint the picture of where their problems are.

Yes it was. And Braum's in not imune to the situation either. Braum's corporate direction ( or lack there of ) is stagnant. Their brand is still stuck in the 80's.

No, it WASN'T closed due to mismanagement. Dairy Queen was sold by founder Charlie Dunn to Daniel K. Borgen of Houston, TX for essentially no cash down. Borgen took control and immediately began stripping cash from the business. Some vendors weren't paid at all, while others (landlords & suppliers) weren't paid until they threatened to close the doors/cease deliveries of food products. Charlie Dunn sued Borgen to regain control, and on the day of the court hearing Borgen filed for bankruptcy, protecting him from creditors and Dunn while he continued siphoning cash. At the very end deliveries stopped, landlords organized to regain control of their buildings, payroll was missed, Borgen skipped town, and an elderly Dunn was left with essentially nothing to rebuild, or the money with which to do it. Borgen successfully exempted funds from creditors by putting them in educational trusts for his children.

Daniel K. Borgen is responsible for Dairy Queen being absent from this market for so long.

No, it WASN'T closed due to mismanagement. Dairy Queen was sold by founder Charlie Dunn to Daniel K. Borgen of Houston, TX for essentially no cash down. Borgen took control and immediately began stripping cash from the business. Some vendors weren't paid at all, while others (landlords & suppliers) weren't paid until they threatened to close the doors/cease deliveries of food products. Charlie Dunn sued Borgen to regain control, and on the day of the court hearing Borgen filed for bankruptcy, protecting him from creditors and Dunn while he continued siphoning cash. At the very end deliveries stopped, landlords organized to regain control of their buildings, payroll was missed, Borgen skipped town, and an elderly Dunn was left with essentially nothing to rebuild, or the money with which to do it. Borgen successfully exempted funds from creditors by putting them in educational trusts for his children.

Daniel K. Borgen is responsible for Dairy Queen being absent from this market for so long.

Tremendous information. Amazing how facts enhance a thread. Thanks for this! Never fully knew the story behind the loss of all those great Dunn's DQ locations from years ago.

Tremendous information. Amazing how facts enhance a thread. Thanks for this! Never fully knew the story behind the loss of all those great Dunn's DQ locations from years ago.

I knew Charlie Dunn and did business with him. Nearing the end of his life he put the company up for sale, priced it too high and nobody made an offer. A young Daniel K. Borgen came along with lots of charm and no money, offering to pay full price if Dunn would finance the purchase. Dunn accepted and signed over control of his company. I headed one of the creditor committees, attended all of the court hearings, and even met with employees who were locked out and not paid on the last day.

No, it WASN'T closed due to mismanagement. Dairy Queen was sold by founder Charlie Dunn to Daniel K. Borgen of Houston, TX for essentially no cash down. Borgen took control and immediately began stripping cash from the business. Some vendors weren't paid at all, while others (landlords & suppliers) weren't paid until they threatened to close the doors/cease deliveries of food products. Charlie Dunn sued Borgen to regain control, and on the day of the court hearing Borgen filed for bankruptcy, protecting him from creditors and Dunn while he continued siphoning cash. At the very end deliveries stopped, landlords organized to regain control of their buildings, payroll was missed, Borgen skipped town, and an elderly Dunn was left with essentially nothing to rebuild, or the money with which to do it. Borgen successfully exempted funds from creditors by putting them in educational trusts for his children.

Daniel K. Borgen is responsible for Dairy Queen being absent from this market for so long.

Yes, this is the "mis-management" I was referring to. When the C-level Management Team / Owners begin this process, it is tough to right-the-ship.

Tremendous information. Amazing how facts enhance a thread. Thanks for this! Never fully knew the story behind the loss of all those great Dunn's DQ locations from years ago.

Hey SD, it looks like you are a fan of DQ yourself. You will be happy to know, that DQ will continue to pour into this market and "eat away" that market-share called "Customer Base". ... one Blizzard at a time.

Hey SD, it looks like you are a fan of DQ yourself. You will be happy to know, that DQ will continue to pour into this market and "eat away" that market-share called "Customer Base". ... one Blizzard at a time.

Maybe, maybe not, since DQ doesn't sell milk, conventional dairy, or other groceries the way Braum's does.

And I'm still really interested in those hard numbers on Braum's loss of market share. Really interested to see those - please post ASAP.

Hey SD, it looks like you are a fan of DQ yourself. You will be happy to know, that DQ will continue to pour into this market and "eat away" that market-share called "Customer Base". ... one Blizzard at a time.

How has Dairy Queen changed since the 80's? Since you are dogging on Braum's I am interested in all of the changes DQ has made over the years I know they used to serve burgers and ice cream back in the day. Do they still serve the same food? Ever run out of Heath bars for their blizzards? lol

DQ has brought a "fresh" Brand into Moore, OK and it is dominating that area.

Braum's is a local corporation w/ local employees ( from the farm / the plant / the stores / corporate office) and there is not a single reason it should be where it is today. A company that is close to ( Going out of Business ) with a product offering that is so good.

Braum's should be relevant, and they're not. I hope they change, and dominate this region. If they don't, then they only have themselves to blame.

DQ has brought a "fresh" Brand into Moore, OK and it is dominating that area.

Braum's is a local corporation w/ local employees ( from the farm / the plant / the stores / corporate office) and there is not a single reason it should be where it is today. A company that is close to ( Going out of Business ) with a product offering that is so good.

Braum's should be relevant, and they're not. I hope they change, and dominate this region. If they don't, then they only have themselves to blame.

Still looking for that hard loss-of-market-share data, Vis. Really would like to see that so the rest of us can see just how near death's door Braum's is.

DQ has brought a "fresh" Brand into Moore, OK and it is dominating that area.

Braum's is a local corporation w/ local employees ( from the farm / the plant / the stores / corporate office) and there is not a single reason it should be where it is today. A company that is close to ( Going out of Business ) with a product offering that is so good.

Braum's should be relevant, and they're not. I hope they change, and dominate this region. If they don't, then they only have themselves to blame.

That's it? That's pretty powerful stuff there. Braum's has beefed up their grocery to go along with their ice cream and dairy. DQ adds "fresh" to their marketing scheme and voila clear winner lol

Still looking for that hard loss-of-market-share data, Vis. Really would like to see that so the rest of us can see just how near death's door Braum's is.

Me too.

The statement "Braum's should be relevant, and they're not" may ring true, but your remaining statements do not.

The B that one poster sees as irrelevant and losing market share is a company I see opening new outlets to replace older tired ones, and with no obvious customer shortages. their biggest issue is many locations are slow service, and yet folks come, and come, and come, for the milk, for the ice cream, for the market items and yes, even the burgers.

Though they may be slow, a Braum's burger is often one of the best burgers in town. No, it won't be as fast as a McD, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why that would be a bad thing. It will be as fast as a Chili's, and it will in my opinion be superior in taste. Not a knock on Chili's, but a nod to B's.

The only truly fast B's I've ever experienced have been in Perry, OK and from time to time the B's on W Robinson in Robinson Crossing. And yet, if I want a burger, I'll often choose the slower B's at Porter/Robinson, one of their older stores.

Me and B's ... we ain't fast, we ain't real purty, and we are kinda set in our ways, but somehow we still works, and for more than enough people to make it worthwhile.

The B that one poster sees as irrelevant and losing market share is a company I see opening new outlets to replace older tired ones, and with no obvious customer shortages. their biggest issue is many locations are slow service, and yet folks come, and come, and come, for the milk, for the ice cream, for the market items and yes, even the burgers.

Though they may be slow, a Braum's burger is often one of the best burgers in town. No, it won't be as fast as a McD, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why that would be a bad thing. It will be as fast as a Chili's, and it will in my opinion be superior in taste. Not a knock on Chili's, but a nod to B's.

The only truly fast B's I've ever experienced have been in Perry, OK and from time to time the B's on W Robinson in Robinson Crossing. And yet, if I want a burger, I'll often choose the slower B's at Porter/Robinson, one of their older stores.

Me and B's ... we ain't fast, we ain't real purty, and we are kinda set in our ways, but somehow we still works, and for more than enough people to make it worthwhile.

ALthough they've been a bit "persona non grata" on my diet as of late, Braums throws together one of the best cotton' pickin' bacon cheeseburgers anywhere. Omigosh.

Just.
The.
Thought.

Any diet that would discourage meat, dairy, grain and (for some, not me) vegetables, well, that's a diet that needs to be reexamined.
of course, since one of my fav oh, hang it, let's eat meat meals is an off menu triple with extra bacon, warshed down with an oversize strawberry shake, I'm not one to use diet and Braum's in the same sentence.

That's it? That's pretty powerful stuff there. Braum's has beefed up their grocery to go along with their ice cream and dairy. DQ adds "fresh" to their marketing scheme and voila clear winner lol

Yes, it IS that easy to capture more "customers" in Oklahoma now. The bar is not that high. Braum's is still stuck in the 80's and the service is, well......s l o w .

Still looking for that hard loss-of-market-share data, Vis. Really would like to see that so the rest of us can see just how near death's door Braum's is.

SD, here ya go.... This is the hard loss-of-market-share data you do not want to see.

Dairy Queen grand opening in Moore (http://www.landthieves.com/board/showthread.php?67192-Dairy-Queen-grand-opening-in-Moore)

SD, in business you can gather "market feedback" in many different way, but this one is a great "Eye Test". Just look at the lines of Thirsty Customers waiting for that "Blizzard" in the middle of Winter Time!

SD, here ya go.... This is the hard loss-of-market-share data you do not want to see.

Dairy Queen grand opening in Moore (http://www.landthieves.com/board/showthread.php?67192-Dairy-Queen-grand-opening-in-Moore)

SD, in business you can gather "market feedback" in many different way, but this one is a great "Eye Test". Just look at the lines of Thirsty Customers waiting for that "Blizzard" in the middle of Winter Time!

I also remember the lines for Krispy Kreme on I-240

The DQ madness will die down and both companies will be successful in Moore

SD, here ya go.... This is the hard loss-of-market-share data you do not want to see.

Dairy Queen grand opening in Moore (http://www.landthieves.com/board/showthread.php?67192-Dairy-Queen-grand-opening-in-Moore)

SD, in business you can gather "market feedback" in many different way, but this one is a great "Eye Test". Just look at the lines of Thirsty Customers waiting for that "Blizzard" in the middle of Winter Time!

Hate to break it to you but those lines have diminished now that the newness has worn off.

Last time I was at that DQ it had about the same number of cars in the drive-thru and in the parking lot that Braum's had right across the interstate when I drove back home.

I know you believe those Braum's customers were being held against their will by some 80's style gestapo marketing plan but by your "eye test" that Braum's is still handling the same volume as before DQ setup shop.

I've asked a similar question before in another thread...is it possible to stalk a food chain?
Why do I get the image of someone hiding in the bushes next to a Braums drive-through?

Most of the folks waiting in the 30 car lines when DQ first opened were only there to check in on FaceBook. Once they actually ate the food I'm sure they weren't willing to wait in lines with more than 3 cars going forward.

That's it? That's pretty powerful stuff there. Braum's has beefed up their grocery to go along with their ice cream and dairy. DQ adds "fresh" to their marketing scheme and voila clear winner lol

That's right, I forgot. ...as a customer, you never want them to "forget".

I will say it again, they are great products that the customers forget about.

Braum's is not relevant today, and if they don't change soon, it will be too late for any "comeback".

Most of the folks waiting in the 30 car lines when DQ first opened were only there to check in on FaceBook. Once they actually ate the food I'm sure they weren't willing to wait in lines with more than 3 cars going forward.

Didn't they also get free food for a year or something if they were one of the first 100 people? Kind of like Chick-Fil-A?

I've asked a similar question before in another thread...is it possible to stalk a food chain?
Why do I get the image of someone hiding in the bushes next to a Braums drive-through?

You know Trousers, if Braum's was an "out of state" corporation, I would not give it another thought. ( there are hundreds places in OKC metro to grab a burger, so it is not about missing Braum's burger if / when they go out of business, or their ice cream. )

This is a local corporation that needs to "wake up". They could be so much more, but they're not. They could dominate, but they're not. They could go away soon, if they keep doing the same thing and expecting a different result. This is much bigger than a Burger / Ice Cream / and Drive-thrus. This is about a local corporation ( jobs , jobs, jobs ) that may go away.

...and Braum's has great products too. So they have a chance to put things in-place that could "Shake" this region up if they chose to do so. We will see if they do.




This is more

SD, here ya go.... This is the hard loss-of-market-share data you do not want to see.

Dairy Queen grand opening in Moore (http://www.landthieves.com/board/showthread.php?67192-Dairy-Queen-grand-opening-in-Moore)

SD, in business you can gather "market feedback" in many different way, but this one is a great "Eye Test". Just look at the lines of Thirsty Customers waiting for that "Blizzard" in the middle of Winter Time!

Nice try, Vis, and I hate to break it to ya, but a news story about a DQ opening is not the hard market share data I'm looking for. Moreover, you know that, but you post silliness like this and hope no one notices. But we do, and it just confirms (again) what the rest of us suspect - that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

On the basis of this, in your head, I'm sure all the small donut shops around OKC disappeared the day after the Krispy Kreme at I-240 and Western opened up and had a line of cars wrapped around the service road waiting for donuts. Now, just a few years later, Krispy Kreme is a distant memory, that building is now pushing hamburgers, and there are two small donut shops within maybe two miles of my house.

You have stated, as a matter of fact, not opinion, that Braum's is losing market share. I want the data that backs up that factual assertion, because I don't believe it. Hard data, such as I asked for previously - drops in same-store sales, drops in revenue, customer turnover rates, something real. I don't want your conjecture that because DQ opened that necessarily implies Braum's has lost market share. Those, as I'm sure you know but hope the rest of us will just ignore, are not at all the same thing.

You are entitled to your opinion here just as are all of us, Vis, but when you come here spouting off that opinion as fact, and then get called out on it, you have a great chance to prop yourself up by posting the data behind your argument. When the best you can do is post a news story about the opening of one competing store, you've utterly failed. Sad part is you know it, you don't have the data to back your claims, so you keep coming on here and spouting your nonsense in the vain hopes that it will be believed merely for the constant repetition even in the absence of facts.

So, again, Vis, please post your data. Post your hard data backing your claims that Braum's has lost market share. I really want to see it. If Braums is in trouble, real trouble, I think we'd all be interested to see the source of your information, and have a nice discussion about it.

Nice try, Vis, and I hate to break it to ya, but a news story about a DQ opening is not the hard market share data I'm looking for. Moreover, you know that, but you post silliness like this and hope no one notices. But we do, and it just confirms (again) what the rest of us suspect - that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

On the basis of this, in your head, I'm sure all the small donut shops around OKC disappeared the day after the Krispy Kreme at I-240 and Western opened up and had a line of cars wrapped around the service road waiting for donuts. Now, just a few years later, Krispy Kreme is a distant memory, that building is now pushing hamburgers, and there are two small donut shops within maybe two miles of my house.

You have stated, as a matter of fact, not opinion, that Braum's is losing market share. I want the data that backs up that factual assertion, because I don't believe it. Hard data, such as I asked for previously - drops in same-store sales, drops in revenue, customer turnover rates, something real. I don't want your conjecture that because DQ opened that necessarily implies Braum's has lost market share. Those, as I'm sure you know but hope the rest of us will just ignore, are not at all the same thing.

You are entitled to your opinion here just as are all of us, Vis, but when you come here spouting off that opinion as fact, and then get called out on it, you have a great chance to prop yourself up by posting the data behind your argument. When the best you can do is post a news story about the opening of one competing store, you've utterly failed. Sad part is you know it, you don't have the data to back your claims, so you keep coming on here and spouting your nonsense in the vain hopes that it will be believed merely for the constant repetition even in the absence of facts.

So, again, Vis, please post your data. Post your hard data backing your claims that Braum's has lost market share. I really want to see it. If Braums is in trouble, real trouble, I think we'd all be interested to see the source of your information, and have a nice discussion about it.

:bow:

:congrats:

Nice try, Vis, and I hate to break it to ya, but a news story about a DQ opening is not the hard market share data I'm looking for. Moreover, you know that, but you post silliness like this and hope no one notices. But we do, and it just confirms (again) what the rest of us suspect - that you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

On the basis of this, in your head, I'm sure all the small donut shops around OKC disappeared the day after the Krispy Kreme at I-240 and Western opened up and had a line of cars wrapped around the service road waiting for donuts. Now, just a few years later, Krispy Kreme is a distant memory, that building is now pushing hamburgers, and there are two small donut shops within maybe two miles of my house.

You have stated, as a matter of fact, not opinion, that Braum's is losing market share. I want the data that backs up that factual assertion, because I don't believe it. Hard data, such as I asked for previously - drops in same-store sales, drops in revenue, customer turnover rates, something real. I don't want your conjecture that because DQ opened that necessarily implies Braum's has lost market share. Those, as I'm sure you know but hope the rest of us will just ignore, are not at all the same thing.

You are entitled to your opinion here just as are all of us, Vis, but when you come here spouting off that opinion as fact, and then get called out on it, you have a great chance to prop yourself up by posting the data behind your argument. When the best you can do is post a news story about the opening of one competing store, you've utterly failed. Sad part is you know it, you don't have the data to back your claims, so you keep coming on here and spouting your nonsense in the vain hopes that it will be believed merely for the constant repetition even in the absence of facts.

So, again, Vis, please post your data. Post your hard data backing your claims that Braum's has lost market share. I really want to see it. If Braums is in trouble, real trouble, I think we'd all be interested to see the source of your information, and have a nice discussion about it.

SD, by your new photo w/ a burger on it, it looks like this dicussion may be really close to home for you. SD, this is a discussion only forum and you may not be able to afford my professional "Market Analysis" anyway. So, just look at this how you want to.

Braum's does not have to change anything and most likely won't. SD, how is the Braum's brand looking today vs. 2000? ....stronger / weaker?

Is Bill B. & Drew B. pleased to have Freddy's / Steak & Shake / and now DQ in their hometown market of OKC ? They will be forced to do something they don't like to do, spend money. We will see.

In my home, B is stronger now than a decade or more back. In the 90's and first half of the last decade, the majority of my burgers were consumed at a sit down pub. Close to the then work place, good eats, and a bit of plain old habit/groove/rut was in there as well. But slow or no, they tend to botch one's order at a far lower rate than the fast delivery chains, so B gets more of a nod now that I take more burgers at home than staying out.

So, speaking of Braums... Am I correct in thinking there was once a proposal for a store in Bricktown?

SD, by your new photo w/ a burger on it, it looks like this dicussion may be really close to home for you. SD, this is a discussion only forum and you may not be able to afford my professional "Market Analysis" anyway. So, just look at this how you want to.

Braum's does not have to change anything and most likely won't. SD, how is the Braum's brand looking today vs. 2000? ....stronger / weaker?

Is Bill B. & Drew B. pleased to have Freddy's / Steak & Shake / and now DQ in their hometown market of OKC ? They will be forced to do something they don't like to do, spend money. We will see.

And as predictably as winter snow, when you can't post the data to support your argument, you turn to personal insults about how my avatar makes this issue close to my heart.

You had a chance to post real data.

You chose not to.

The more striking aspect of your response was how you excused yourself from that opportunity by saying this is a "discussion" forum - telegraphing the obvious implication that these "discussions" need not be burdened with anything like facts. Facts you don't have.

And every time you reply to this thread without those facts, it's a reminder to everyone reading that given a choice between posting facts or tossing insults, you chose the latter.

I said before, and I'll say it again. You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about, despite being given specific and repeated opportunity to prove otherwise. And we need look no further than your own hollow posts to prove it.

Be on the lookout for his next thread titled "WalMart should be concerned about the new Crest openings"

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

SD, why don't you take this one....

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

My understanding is breaks are only required for 16 and under.

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

When I worked at Wal-Mart, if we worked a nine hour day (8-5), we got one hour for lunch and two 15 minute breaks. If we worked seven hours (4-11) we got a one hour lunch and one 15 minute break. If we worked five hours (6-11) we got a 30 minute lunch and a 15 minute break. Of course, that was 12 years ago. Not sure how much things have changed since then.

Be on the lookout for his next thread titled "WalMart should be concerned about the new Crest openings"

i have pictures from opening day at the newest crest that i saw on some random sports website... the number of cars in the parking lot proves that walmart is losing market share. you can't argue with that kind of in-depth market analysis. -M

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

Based on the following from the Department of Labor website:



"The Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) does not require employees be given meal or rest breaks."

http://www.dol.gov/compliance/topics/wages-other-breaks.htm


It doesn't appear there's an obvious requirement for a break based on what you posted above. There may be Oklahoma law that applies, but any such exceptions are not among those listed by-state on the DOL website. Not sure otherwise.

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

Oklahoma is not one of the six or seven states that mandate paid rest breaks during the work day. However, many employers do provide for rest breaks and meal breaks as a matter of their company policies.

Thank you, SoonerDave. I'll give that bit of info to my friend.

And as predictably as winter snow, when you can't post the data to support your argument, you turn to personal insults about how my avatar makes this issue close to my heart.

You had a chance to post real data.

You chose not to.

The more striking aspect of your response was how you excused yourself from that opportunity by saying this is a "discussion" forum - telegraphing the obvious implication that these "discussions" need not be burdened with anything like facts. Facts you don't have.

And every time you reply to this thread without those facts, it's a reminder to everyone reading that given a choice between posting facts or tossing insults, you chose the latter.

I said before, and I'll say it again. You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about, despite being given specific and repeated opportunity to prove otherwise. And we need look no further than your own hollow posts to prove it.

SD, if you are correct, then Braum's is in a very strong position and can just "sit" on their existing revenues. Their (regional only) locations w/ a very heavy cost structure ; Fully integrated, is a great position to be in, but ONLY if you can hold your existing marketshare. If not, then it gets kinda heavy at the top and the weight at the bottom ( farm / plant / fleet ) gets heavy at the bottom and makes it more difficult to sell that milk / burger / shake.

I hope I'm wrong and Braum's can duplicate this business model in the SE / NE / West Coast / Upper Midwest too and be what Hobby Lobby has become. ...but I don't think the Bill & Drew can equal what the Greens have accomplished. I hope they do. They may not know how, either way, we will see.

Again, this is a local corporation that I would love to see be ALL it can be. I'm not seeing it yet.

I have a question. I have an "older" friend that just recently started working at Braum's. She asked me if I knew if employees working 5 hours a day are supposed to get a "break?" I suggested she ask her manager. I think she simply wants to know what the law says.

I thought they rest between making each shake, hence the long lines at the drive thru.

20 story tower in the middle of no where, in view of Olympic stadium, with maglev service featuring on board Braums locations. Is that the point we are at now in these ridiculous discussions? LOL

Braums is like anyone else. They have stores that do well, they have stores that do poorly. What can you do? Sure it would be awesome if they were all performing at a high level, but that just isn't realistic in many cases. My store does well and I enjoy going there. Same friendly people every week and it is always clean and service is good.

But hey...that snow cone trailer will open up soon down the street from it and we know it'll run Braums out of the frozen treat market.