It hasn't happened because the folks that make money off the tolls have a good thing going. Not to mention the fact that we couldnt' afford NOT to have them tolled. ODOT is still running on a 1980's budget and until we get over our dumb ideas that we dont' want to pay more taxes, then we won't get any better. If we could get that 5cent gas tax passed, we could actually have good roads...toll free. But our idiot folks can't see that and just see "new tax" and run. Then they piss and moan about the roads.

Can't have the cake and eat it folks.

And Delta, I agree with soonerfan....you may have opinions, but they lack the facts to back them up.

In some other parts of the world ALL highways are toll roads. "Free" highways are not an inalienable right, the toll road model is what is going to pay for new roads, the writing is on the wall. I don't have an issue with that, what I do have an issue with is putting tolls on existing roads that were paid for with gas taxes. Let the traditional funding model pay to maintain and/or expand those and let new roads be built with tolls.

Awesome show at Cain's the other night. Awesome band, awesome venue. Best place to see live music in the state, bar none.

Stopped at QT on the way back and that was awesome, too.

Thanks, Tulsa!

What makes Cain's awesome? Is it the structure, the service, the amenities... you guys keep droning on about music venues and how awesome they are without ever going into concrete detail. To me, a kick-ass venue is an outdoor amphitheater.

Awesome bands go to OKC as well. Where's the magic in this OKC vs. Tulsa mambajahamba?

The only thing better about QT are larger restrooms. I'm happy with Circle K and 7-Eleven. I hate public restrooms regardless, in any city and any state. Too many guys do NOT know how to aim and stream.

I just saw a commercial for kwtv9 here in OKC! that talked about this and they said OKC has the Thunder but Tulsa is getting better acts! so it will be on at 4-5or 10 newscast, I dont know! sorry, anybody else see this?I didnt catch what time they said!

I just saw a commercial for kwtv9 here in OKC! that talked about this and they said OKC has the Thunder but Tulsa is getting better acts! so it will be on at 4-5or 10 newscast, I dont know! sorry, anybody else see this?I didnt catch what time they said!

Yeah I just seen the bit on KWTV9 and they talked to mayor Mick and were asking why Tulsa is getting some new things and not OKC?We should be happy for Tulsa for having nice new things to attract tax revenue! as for me I'll take the Thunder,and the Devon tower,and the newly announced US olympic rowing training facility over a Hard Rock casino or a Dave and Busters and good concerts,and poss. the WNBA,all these pale in comparison to what OKC has got over the past few years,but it is Tulsa's time to shine!!!Go T-Town:congrats:

It hasn't happened because the folks that make money off the tolls have a good thing going. Not to mention the fact that we couldnt' afford NOT to have them tolled. ODOT is still running on a 1980's budget and until we get over our dumb ideas that we dont' want to pay more taxes, then we won't get any better. If we could get that 5cent gas tax passed, we could actually have good roads...toll free. But our idiot folks can't see that and just see "new tax" and run. Then they piss and moan about the roads.

Can't have the cake and eat it folks.

ny has some of the highest taxes on gas Gasoline tax information - New York City Gas Prices (http://www.newyorkgasprices.com/Tax_Info.aspx) and they have crap roads and a ton of toll. doubt we would have free roads, or nice for that matter.

Tulsans have pride and the competitiveness (OKC vs. Tulsa) will only hasten both cities' growth!

No offense but the Ford center wont ever be as astonishing as the BOK. Its amazing.

To each his/her own. I am personally not impressed by the BOK. It's a nice arena, but I prefer AA Center in Dallas. Now that's a swank arena. When the Ford Center's remodel is complete, it will be much nicer. But as of now... bleh.


And the new ONEOK Field is only a smiggen smaller than the brick.

Try almost half the size. The seating capacity at ONEOK is what... 7,000? Compared to the Brick's 13,000? I find it interesting that of all the trashing Tulsans do about OKC, they conveniently forget about the Brick, which has been and always will be a very nice ballpark.


The music scene in Tulsa has us beat as well...They have a "scene".

Okay, I'll give you that, but many, many great artists come from and play in OKC. You've just described a dynamic attribute. OKC's music scene has gotten better since the 1990's, and jsut keeps improving. Support your local music scene, assuming you're from OKC.


and we arent that much larger than Tulsa. We arent a city the size of dallas we are a city (roughly the same size as Tulsa, Memphis, etc.)

551,000 in OKC, 385,000 in Tulsa. The gap just keeps getting bigger. And forget the land area argument because it doesn't stand. Over 95% of that 551,000 lives in a contiguous area roughly 240 sq. miles, hence, the urban core of OKC.

1,206,142 in the OKC MSA and 916,079 in the Tulsa MSA. That's nearly 300,000 people.


And i could see the NFL in Tulsa before us.

Heres why....

Think of memphis and nashville (similar in size, one is slightly larger). One city isnt large enough to support both a NFL and NBA Team. So they put a NBA team in Memphis and a NFL team in Nashville. Tulsa also has lots of traffic from the Fayetteville, Bentonville, Siloam Springs area...

The NFL? Doubtful. Heck, the NFL is doubtful in OKC. The NFL requires hefty markets to function, with the exception of Green Bay, which is a city-owned team.

What makes Cain's awesome? Is it the structure, the service, the amenities... you guys keep droning on about music venues and how awesome they are without ever going into concrete detail.

Great sound, great history, great floor, great services, sure. All that. And you can buy a full six-pack of beer, if you want. And it attracts some of the best acts in music today, that likely wouldn't even come to this state if it wasn't for Cain's. To me, that's the best part of all.

EDIT:

Just saw this, and I think it's worth posting:

Cain's ranked #45 in the world for 2009 Mid-Year Ticket Sales (http://www.pollstarpro.com/SpecialFeatures2009/2009Top100WorldwideClubVenuesTicketSales.pdf)

Not too shabby!


To me, a kick-ass venue is an outdoor amphitheater.

Yep, I like outdoor venues too, but they're only as good as the weather.


The only thing better about QT are larger restrooms.

False.

The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!

Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????

The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!

Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????

Please do tell!!!!

That's all I can say now but this will be GREAT for Oklahoma!!!

I can't imagine what that would be...

That's all I can say now but this will be GREAT for Oklahoma!!!

Will it cost more than the Devon tower? will it be taller? come on, ya cant leave us hangin!!!!!

I noticed Wayne Greene, TW editor wrote a short article today finding it rather amusing that OKC is jealous of Tulsa according to KWTV OKC news station complaining that Tulsa is getting all the cool stuff before OKC does. I do notice that Tulsa has Saks, Restoration Hardware, Dave & Busters, and now their "so called" HRC? In addition, T-town has Steve Madden, Oakley, Fossil store that are not found in OKC. It does seem that Tulsa has a better shopping selection than OKC. Even Tulsa has a WF which OKC doesn't, however, strong rumors are persistent that OKC may soon have one. Do you think that OKC is suffering from "capital envy"??

I noticed Wayne Greene, TW editor wrote a short article today finding it rather amusing that OKC is jealous of Tulsa according to KWTV OKC news station complaining that Tulsa is getting all the cool stuff before OKC does. I do notice that Tulsa has Saks, Restoration Hardware, Dave & Busters, and now their "so called" HRC? In addition, T-town has Steve Madden, Oakley, Fossil store that are not found in OKC. It does seem that Tulsa has a better shopping selection than OKC. Even Tulsa has a WF which OKC doesn't, however, strong rumors are persistent that OKC may soon have one. Do you think that OKC is suffering from "capital envy"??

I think both cities suffer from envy. Now Tulsa is trying to beat out OKC with "something bigger"?

I think if both cities continue to try and out-do each other, we will have two kick-ass cities without even knowing it happened.

I'll take the NBA and the Devon tower over a HRC and a D&b anyday! but it's still cool to see Tulsa getting some stuff! and from what In Tulsa has said Tulsa might even be getting something big!

I think if both cities continue to try and out-do each other, we will have two kick-ass cities without even knowing it happened.

That would be nice...Would love to be able to take a short drive to Tulsa instead of Big D for a weekend getaway...Just not enough up there right now to make the shift...I hope Tulsa continues to get more of the only upscale shops as that would limit the damage my wife can do to a few times a year

You should come up to Tulsa and stay at the Hard Rock Hotel with rooms from 150.00 to the Rock Star Suite for 2600.00 a night you'll find a room you like.



www.hardrockcasinotulsa.com

No can do Tulsa...Wife and I stopped gambling 5 or 6 years ago...Used to do some serious damage heading to Shreveport and Tunica several times a year...Last time we gambled at Riverwind we went through $200 in 45 minutes

We be done

Used to live in S. Tulsa and we loved it there...Wouldn't hesitate to move back

When should we expect to hear this big announcement for Tulsa?

Sometime within the next 30 years.

(that should cover it)

Me thinks In_Tulsa is pulling our legs.


Sometime within the next 30 years.

That sounds about right. For the past 36 years Tulsa has had the tallest in the state. For 42 years prior to that, OKC had the tallest. The two cities keep doing the tall building tango.

The new tower in OKC will be nice and the biggest in the state. But a little birdy told me about something bigger is coming out of the ground in Downtown Tulsa stay tuned!!

Hint: Local company but not local in Tulsa Yet?????

I wouldn't hold my breath, home skillet! Tulsa is one of those cities, the earth wouldn't swallow!

Hmm is the Indian statue finallly going to rise...

If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?

Ugh, I hope the indian statue never gets built. Tulsa has plenty of Kitsch stuff as it is.

If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?

WKY toppled on June 13, 1998 in an F3 tornado. But... what record did it hold??? Are you confusing that with the KWTV tower, which stands at more than 1,500 ft tall? WKY tower was no more than 700 ft., and that may be stretching it.

It may nothave been WKY then, but I know it's not KWTV. It was one of those things no one ever really paid attention to because it's a structure. But then again, the CN tower is in the structure class also, and it's freaking huge. Anyway, my point is, if they build that freaking statue, it's going to be a horrible eyesore that everyone will hate. And you'll find that the Devon Tower will win in any contest. The numbers of feet don't always mean anything. So even if it's taller than Devon (which I doubt they'll ever get enough funding to do that), big whoopie. Devon is making ripples worldwide with the design...and in a good way.

And if you wanna say someone in Tulsa is about to build some 60 floor building....i'd like to see it happen...honestly. But, unless you've got some billion dollar project from a company no one knows about..... It sure won't be Williams or BOK.

I kind of like the Big Brother/Little Brother Rivalry we've got going.

As much as I like to see OKC doing well, I'm an overall Okie advocate. After recently moving back to Oklahoma from Washington DC I'm more enthralled with the genuine goodness of this place now then I ever have been.

Not that I dont miss DC, but this place is special.

I see OKC and Tulsa like two players on the same team pushing the other to be better by getting better themselves.

I've heard the BOK center described as "incredible, amazing, astonishing, etc.". We went there Friday night for the first time. I don't get it. OK, The outside is a more modern architecture then the Ford center. And the first level concourse has a lot of large, open space. I don't consider either of those a real improvement and that's about where any real positive differences end as far as I see. The BOK third level has little open space and at the corners it gets really narrow. Odd design. The Ford center has a decent club level. BOK is only suites, no additional club level seating. And there are about half enough facilities. I've never, ever stood in line 20 to 30 men outside the door of a restroom at the Ford center. Yes, the restrooms at BOK are large, open and well lighted but a lot of that large, open, wasted space could have been used for more plumbing fixtures. Last, I can't forget all the complaints about the small rows and seats at the Ford center. Well, at 5'7" and 170 I was hitting my knees on the seat in front of me and being too intimate with the guy on the non-wife side of my seat at BOK. The seats at BOK aren't a bit bigger than the Ford center.

Except for the architecture, which is a matter of taste anyway, I don't see the big deal about the BOK center. A perfect case of the grass always being greener I think.

The architecture of the BOK Center is what makes it "incredible, amazing, astonishing, etc." Of course, that's a very subjective thing. I mean the rest is just an arena. An arena is an arena, give or take some amenities. The BOK Center does a good job of marrying form and function, though not to everyone's taste perhaps.

just wondering, does the new hard rock have a hard rock cafe? You would think that would be mandatory, but i cant find it anywhere.

There's a whole thread around that soonerfan...but the short answer is, no.

And totally agree SoonerBent. Theyre both arenas. Ford Center will soon have more open space, shops, etc, but they'll both still be arenas.

If anyone wants to see what an arena can be, check out the one they're trying to build in Jersey. This is beyond anything even thought of before folks.

And forgot to mention, check out the concerts that are starting to line up at Ford Center once it's open again in the fall. Star Wars is a great example of how these two facilites are on equal footing. But the concerts are starting to line up...and with even more free dates with the Blazers out this season, you can bet your bippy that SMG will be filling those up.

just wondering, does the new hard rock have a hard rock cafe? You would think that would be mandatory, but i cant find it anywhere.

Nope. But it has an ice bar with amazing drinks. WAAAYYY better than a Hard Rock Cafe.

Oh, and there's a Waffle House next to it...

And forgot to mention, check out the concerts that are starting to line up at Ford Center once it's open again in the fall. Star Wars is a great example of how these two facilites are on equal footing. But the concerts are starting to line up...and with even more free dates with the Blazers out this season, you can bet your bippy that SMG will be filling those up.

FORD CENTER
Kings of Leon
Rob Thomas
Robin Williams
Star Wars in Concert
AC/DC

BOK CENTER (about half of this is taking place before the Ford reopens)
Paul McCartney
Rod Stewart
Lil Wayne
Def Leppard/Poison/Cheap Trick
Britney Spears
WWE Smackdown
Taylor Swift
Dave Matthews
Creed
Miley Cyrus
Star Wars in Concert
So You Think You Can Dance Tour

Mostly different stuff. Not better. They just have more dates open. Like bomber said, equal footing.

Also, we're getting U2, Jerry Seinfeld, UFC, and Margaret Cho and they are not.

FORD CENTER
Kings of Leon
Rob Thomas
Robin Williams
Star Wars in Concert
AC/DC

BOK CENTER (about half of this is taking place before the Ford reopens)
Paul McCartney
Rod Stewart
Lil Wayne
Def Leppard/Poison/Cheap Trick
Britney Spears
WWE Smackdown
Taylor Swift
Dave Matthews
Creed
Miley Cyrus
Star Wars in Concert
So You Think You Can Dance Tour

Mostly different stuff. Not better. They just have more dates open. Like bomber said, equal footing.

Also, we're getting U2, Jerry Seinfeld, UFC, and Margaret Cho and they are not.

The BOk has the Ford beat in quality and quantity this year.

Meh. To each his own.

You look and see how many days the Thunder takes up?

You look and see how many days the Thunder takes up?

44 (one open practice, 2 preseason games, 41 regular seaon). More if they happen to make the playoffs.

Exactlly. I'll take those 44 days of basketball over a couple more concerts ANYDAY!

If it does...big whoopy. It doesn't count in the world of records. It would classify as a strucuture, not a building. If we were talking structures, then I believe the WKY tower in OKC held the record, not the BOK tower. That is until it got killed in a twister...was that 97?

You are thinking about the KWTV tower which, when it was built, was the tallest manmade structure in the world. It didn't hold that title for long, though. It was built in 1954 and was the tallest until 1956 when the KOBR TV tower was built in Caprock NM.