I was the one that started calling it that. I can call it the mystery structure on the SE corner if you prefer. I still think it will be some kind of eating area and from the camera today it looks like the window on the end fold up like a garage door.

I guess if nothing else, people can buy their snickers bar and an RC Cola and walk over there to eat it. LOL

It looks like an semi-enclosed eating area where the eastside door can roll up. I bet some of those windows will open as well.

It also looks like there is now a patio that surrounds it which almost certainly will have tables, chairs and umbrellas.

Check out this story about the new whole foods opening near downtown Houston. I know we can't expect all of this stuff as we are a smaller city but it does make me start wondering what kind of coll unique features we will have at ours.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/food/7620422.html

Guess we can be sure we won't be getting the cool wine bar and the area for wine and cheese pairings. Oh, well, I guess the trade off is we don't get the wine selections/ but we don't have to live in Houston either.

Never been to a Whole Foods. Is it like other places...a sort of Gelson's/Mrs. Gooch's/Trader Joe's combined--on steroids?

Never been to a Whole Foods. Is it like other places...a sort of Gelson's/Mrs. Gooch's/Trader Joe's combined--on steroids?

I've shopped in Gelson's a number of times. The only difference I saw from a standard OKC store was the wine and liquor area.

I heard from a guy who is in the produce business that the OKC WF is going to be a "C" store compared to a nicer "A" or "B" store... Is this true? I wonder what an A and B store has that a C store doesn't?

I heard from a guy who is in the produce business that the OKC WF is going to be a "C" store compared to a nicer "A" or "B" store... Is this true? I wonder what an A and B store has that a C store doesn't?

Sell wine?

That was my guess too..

I think it is a size classification, the 80,000 sf stores would be the "A", those in the 60,000 sf range are the "B" and the 40,000 and less are the "C" stores. They have started on the new store at The Domain here in Austin to replace an older 35,000 sf at the Gateway Center in North Austin, I found out last week they are staying with the 80,000 sf store for The Domain that was planned to start in December 2008. They have since announced 5 new stores in Austin that will be about the same size as the OKC store. They are putting one store in across a parking lot from the South Austin Costco, it was a Haverty's furniture store, when Stein Mart closed that store, Haverty's moved into the smaller store next door and Whole Foods is moving in where Harverty's was.

Well from what I was told by employees of the other stores nearest us, we're not supposed to be the bottom of the barrell or anything. And I thought they had not totally cut off the wine thing....i thought they had walled off an area so they could still sell wine but that it was in a seperate area so it could be closed on sundays and whatnot. It's kind of hard to just totally let go of alcohol sells since they add up to so much. I don't see any reason why they have to give it up, they just have to design in a more creative way.

Well from what I was told by employees of the other stores nearest us, we're not supposed to be the bottom of the barrell or anything. And I thought they had not totally cut off the wine thing....i thought they had walled off an area so they could still sell wine but that it was in a seperate area so it could be closed on sundays and whatnot. It's kind of hard to just totally let go of alcohol sells since they add up to so much. I don't see any reason why they have to give it up, they just have to design in a more creative way.

I agree. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a wine/beer component that is separate from the whole foods itself.

Well from what I was told by employees of the other stores nearest us, we're not supposed to be the bottom of the barrell or anything. And I thought they had not totally cut off the wine thing....i thought they had walled off an area so they could still sell wine but that it was in a seperate area so it could be closed on sundays and whatnot. It's kind of hard to just totally let go of alcohol sells since they add up to so much. I don't see any reason why they have to give it up, they just have to design in a more creative way.

Maybe that's what the mystery area on the east side of the store is.

And looking at this building compared to some of the other Whole Foods I've seen, there's nothing 3rd tier about the construction.

Well from what I was told by employees of the other stores nearest us, we're not supposed to be the bottom of the barrell or anything. And I thought they had not totally cut off the wine thing....i thought they had walled off an area so they could still sell wine but that it was in a seperate area so it could be closed on sundays and whatnot. It's kind of hard to just totally let go of alcohol sells since they add up to so much. I don't see any reason why they have to give it up, they just have to design in a more creative way.
Oklahoma is not unique in the beer/wine restriction, the Whole Foods in Boston that I (Beacon Hill area) had no alcohol, it seems Massachusetts is a "package store" state without the 3.2 beer grocery store option like Oklahoma or Colorado. It also wasn't until the past couple of years that all of Dallas went "wet" instead of the wet/dry areas by voting district.

Now they might have a "separate liquor store" leased out to an independent retailer like the Costco stores down here do.

Oklahoma is not unique in the beer/wine restriction, the Whole Foods in Boston that I (Beacon Hill area) had no alcohol, it seems Massachusetts is a "package store" state without the 3.2 beer grocery store option like Oklahoma or Colorado. It also wasn't until the past couple of years that all of Dallas went "wet" instead of the wet/dry areas by voting district.

Now they might have a "separate liquor store" leased out to an independent retailer like the Costco stores down here do.

Tennessee doesn't allow wine in grocery stores either. But they can sell strong beer.

That hasn't stopped Whole Foods and Trader Joe's from opening up several locations in that state.

Here we go again......

I think they have finally started laying the floors.

Great to see that OKC is getting a wholefoods! I personally have been to their store in Seattle and St Louis. Loved the choices of the artisan produce that they had. Things that they just don't carry at the local Walmart or Target. It'll be a great addition to the classen curve area!

Artisan produce? I thought they just carried organic produce, not artisan

well. . .some of the organic can border on "artisan"!

What is artisan produce?

Carrots with the stem? lol

What is artisan produce?

It's a label that allows them to charge a whole lot more money. LOL

But it basically means that it's from a small individual type of operation instead of a larger corporate organization.

Never heard of it, and I'm a regular WF shopper

Never heard of it, and I'm a regular WF shopper

Whole Foods may not label it that way but that is the concept of Artisan.

Go to a farmer's market folks. They're all over town. I can get a zuchini the size of my arm for 50 cents from this awesome lady at the Norman one. If you're trying to "buy local" and be green and all that, even WF isn't going to be as local and green as a farmer's market. No, you can't get things all year around at a market, but if you buy fruit and veggies at WF in the winter, you're not buying local anyway. Those avocados come from Mexico folks.

Or buy from the Oklahoma Food Cooperative!

Not that I won't fill in the gaps in my shopping at WF, but the Co-Op is great! We've been members for two years and absolutely LOVE IT!

I don't know if there is already a thread on the co-op, Celebrator, but if there isn't I'd like to see you start one and tell more about your experiences with the co-op. I'd not heard about it until your message and just had a quick look at their (your, actually, since you are a co-op member) website (http://www.oklahomafood.coop/). I don't want to bog this thread down on discussing it further here, but it certainly sounds interesting.

This thread has been active for almost 6 years--based on a grocery store? Just noticed this...amazing...

It is a pretty amazing grocery store. :-)

it is a pretty amazing grocery store. :-)

s-i-x years? Seen them on TV...nice..but no cigar...

I'm now pretty sure the rumored SE corner eating area, is now a separately enclosed wine and beer area. I'll try to take pics soon to depict why I think this.

I'm now pretty sure the rumored SE corner eating area, is now a separately enclosed wine and beer area. I'll try to take pics soon to depict why I think this.

That's exactly what I think as well, after looking at it this weekend.

presume you are talking "sales". . .any thoughts as to who it might be? I know it can't be WF. . . Am I correct in thinking that there can't be multiple locations of a liquor business (i.e., like a Byron's or Bway Wine Merchants with 2 locations). Is that restriction state-wide? county-wide? city-wide? Wondering if one of the bigger stores out of city/county/state (above the level the restriction applies) might be making the plunge? Could Sam's Club come in? Their distribution network is certainly already in place!

Could Sam's Club come in? Their distribution network is certainly already in place!

Oops. . . just remembered whoever it is has to go thru the wholesaler. . .so, I'm guessing it will have to be a traditional liquor store.

I'm now pretty sure the rumored SE corner eating area, is now a separately enclosed wine and beer area. I'll try to take pics soon to depict why I think this.

That's a bold statement and would be very cool if true. I am curious to see your logic. How would the sliding garage door on the one end fit into this design. I am also curious as to where the AC equipment would go as they structure is separate from the main one and i doubt they are going to set units on the roof of the mini structure.

They are even working on Whole Foods today. It looks as if they're getting ready to plant trees on the Classen side. Just looking at recent activity, I think this building is going to be ready before predicted. I also do not see how Anthropologie could possibly need until February to be ready to open either. They've got someone working on it today too. I'm going to check with my source and see if the opening date has been moved up.

That's a bold statement and would be very cool if true. I am curious to see your logic. How would the sliding garage door on the one end fit into this design. I am also curious as to where the AC equipment would go as they structure is separate from the main one and i doubt they are going to set units on the roof of the mini structure.
Because this area looks like a separately enclosed unit and I don't see any garage door that you mention. I could be wrong, but it sure looks stand alone to me. Ass far as who would operate it, whole foods would, and this would only be their first liqour store in OKlahoka if the rumor is true, so the concern above wouldn't matter.

As far as who would operate it, whole foods would, and this would only be their first liqour store in OKlahoka if the rumor is true, so the concern above wouldn't matter.

So, you are surmising that it would be, in essence, "Whole Foods Liquors and Wines" adjacent to "Whole Foods Grocery". That would be great. . . but if it's doable, I'm surprised that some of our more enterprising grocers haven't tried it. Of course, there is always the first. . .and it just might open the door to more!

I thought the Oklahoma liquor laws require that the owner of a liquor store be an Oklahoma resident for the last 10 years. If that's correct I don't see Whole Foods being the owner of the liquor store.

I thought the Oklahoma liquor laws require that the owner of a liquor store be an Oklahoma resident for the last 10 years. If that's correct I don't see Whole Foods being the owner of the liquor store.

Redrunner, I think you are right. . . from the ABLE website. . .:

Except as hereinafter provided, retail sales of alcoholic beverages shall be limited to the
original sealed package, by privately owned and operated package stores, in cities and towns having a population in excess of two hundred (200) persons or by wineries; provided that wineries shall be able to sell only wine which has been produced on the winery premises. No goods, wares, or merchandise shall be sold and no services shall be rendered on the same premises on which retail package alcoholic beverages are sold. Said premises are herein defined to be the entire space in which retail package alcoholic beverages are sold or displayed and said premises must be separated from any premises on which any other goods, wares, or merchandise are sold or services rendered by walls which may only be broken by a passageway to which the public is not admitted.

And the answer to my question about a retailer having multiple locations. . . :

Not more than one retail package license shall be issued to any person or general or limited partnership

So. . . seems to exclude WF and existing retailers. .which returns to my question of "WHO"??!!

Redrunner, I think you are right. . . from the ABLE website. . .:

Except as hereinafter provided, retail sales of alcoholic beverages shall be limited to the
original sealed package, by privately owned and operated package stores, in cities and towns having a population in excess of two hundred (200) persons or by wineries; provided that wineries shall be able to sell only wine which has been produced on the winery premises. No goods, wares, or merchandise shall be sold and no services shall be rendered on the same premises on which retail package alcoholic beverages are sold. Said premises are herein defined to be the entire space in which retail package alcoholic beverages are sold or displayed and said premises must be separated from any premises on which any other goods, wares, or merchandise are sold or services rendered by walls which may only be broken by a passageway to which the public is not admitted.

And the answer to my question about a retailer having multiple locations. . . :

Not more than one retail package license shall be issued to any person or general or limited partnership

So. . . seems to exclude WF and existing retailers. .which returns to my question of "WHO"??!!

lost this somewhere in the "translation"

XXVIII–10. Restrictions on issuance of licenses
No retail package store or wholesale distributor’s license shall be issued to:
(a) A corporation, business trust or secret partnership.
(b) A person or partnership unless such person or all of the copartners including limited
partners shall have been residents of the State of Oklahoma for at least ten (10) years
immediately preceding the date of application for such license.

Who? Aubrey McClendon????? He had a fairly large wine collection at one point in time....

As an aside, when people complain about downtown development and the good old boy network, I'd have to say it doesn't hold a candle to our liquor wholesalers/distributors.

"Aubrey;s Liquors". That would be classic

I really don't think that little structure will be for liquor sales.

For one, it's very small -- maybe 500 square feet. Also, it seems to lack any HVAC on the roof. And finally, you can clearly see a retractable door on the east side on the photo below.

Looks to me like a semi-enclosed eating area:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wholefoods7611.jpg

Shopping carts?

Carts wouldn't be stored that far from the entrance, which is on the SW corner of the building.

Typically, their locations have tables with umbrellas along the front, and I suspect that will be the case here. I really do think this will be an area for people to sit and still be somewhat protected from the elements.

Pete, do you know know if we'll ever see floor plans on the OKC planning commission website?

They already have building permits so I don't think we'll see any more detail.

CHK is horrific about communicating with the public about it's developments, and this is yet another case in point. Why not share the particulars, as they've clearly known them for almost a year? We all knew about Anthropologie months before they announced anything, and that was only after it was under construction.

Likewise, they have two major office structures under way (Building 14 & 15) and I've never seen anything on either except building permits. Rand Elliott doesn't even have anything on his website.


Why are they so weird and secretive about everything they build?

They already have building permits so I don't think we'll see any more detail.

CHK is horrific about communicating with the public about it's developments, and this is yet another case in point. Why not share the particulars, as they've clearly known them for almost a year? We all knew about Anthropologie months before they announced anything, and that was only after it was under construction.

Likewise, they have two major office structures under way (Building 14 & 15) and I've never seen anything on either except building permits. Rand Elliott doesn't even have anything on his website.


Why are they so weird and secretive about everything they build?

Because Aubrey McClendon is a freaking control freak.

And why would they want to publish them? So we could all comment and offer opinions on how we think they are doing things wrong and how we could do it better? If my office were to build something, I believe I would prefer it not be posted out for everyone either. It might answer some questions, but those questions are going to be answered when the place opens too.

And why would they want to publish them? So we could all comment and offer opinions on how we think they are doing things wrong and how we could do it better? If my office were to build something, I believe I would prefer it not be posted out for everyone either. It might answer some questions, but those questions are going to be answered when the place opens too.
But your business doesn't have the pull AM has, and the complaints are that they are supposed to be legally required to release these documents.

Legally required to release what documents?

Pete, do you know know if we'll ever see floor plans on the OKC planning commission website?
The permit office should have a set of the approved construction documents, I think they are available for viewing by the public at the office if you are really interested. I don't know of any city that scans those for the web.

And why would they want to publish them? So we could all comment and offer opinions on how we think they are doing things wrong and how we could do it better? If my office were to build something, I believe I would prefer it not be posted out for everyone either. It might answer some questions, but those questions are going to be answered when the place opens too.

I agree. Rarely are posters on here supportive of anyone's plans. So why put info out there? Once the project is finished, people tend to understand and appreciate it more and criticize it less. Why would a company want to start an argument when it doesn't have to. These are private company developments and don't have to give every detail.

That said, every project has a construction cam. No one else does that. At least they encourage and make it easy for the public to see what is going on once it is started.

So far I would say they have done a pretty good job of improving the 63rd & Western area. My guess is the projects they are working on will continue the trend and to continue to add density to the near north city area.

That said, every project has a construction cam. No one else does that. At least they encourage and make it easy for the public to see what is going on once it is started.

CHK doesn't put these up, the contractor does and it's mainly for project management. The only reason we even found them is because a bunch of posters here are super diligent about searching for this sort of thing. They are not linked on any CHK website, CHK never alluded to them in any interviews or press releases, etc. Also, they'd done tons of projects that didn't have construction cams (i.e. pretty much everything before these most recent structures).



It's not just posters on this site that are frustrated by their lack of communication, the planning commission and city council has renounced their secrecy.

But beyond all this, there are tons of expanding businesses and real estate developers in town and CHK is the only one that operates this way. Do you really think Chesapeake is being secretive with the planning commission due to fear of what people on the Internet are going to say about their projects?

With the lights on at night, you can see they have finally poured the interior slab.

They will be handing things off to the WF finish contractor soon if that hasn't happened already.

It's surprised me how slowly this thing has moved. Grocery stores in general seem to take a long time considering how simple the structure is. I don't really understand why they take so long in comparison to a Lowes, for example. It's the same concept, a big box structure (slab and a grid holding up the roof...that's it. Everything else is decorative and we're not even to that part yet.

There is a whole bunch of underfloor utilities involved in grocery type retail, when Walgreens doubled the amount of packaged reach-in coolers at the NW 23rd & May store we had to saw cut the just poured slabs to put in the power and drains to serve those coolers. All of the produce, deli and meat areas have power, water and sanitary sewer, the hot areas have the same requirements. The cooler/freezer areas have power and drains, in many cases the compressors are outside so you have the lines coming from/going to those remote compressors. A Lowe's has relatively minimal utilities throughout the store and most of those are served in warehouse type stores via overhead service.

Ah...makes sense...thanks for the info.