If any federal money is involved then sidewalks are a requirement to get the funding, no matter what Paul Brum thought (I know, he is no longer with the city but he hated sidewalks). That is why you see accessible curb cuts at intersections to nowhere, the intersections probably had some federal money paying for it but the adjacent roads were not part of the funding.

If any federal money is involved then sidewalks are a requirement to get the funding, no matter what Paul Brum thought (I know, he is no longer with the city but he hated sidewalks). That is why you see accessible curb cuts at intersections to nowhere, the intersections probably had some federal money paying for it but the adjacent roads were not part of the funding.

And where the curb cuts do exist, the City for whatever reason ignores them when they put in sidewalks a few years later. Sometimes as close to connecting to it as a foot and other times much further away (specifically the sidewalk/trail that was put in along SW Grand Blvd between May and Penn)

Let's put a stop to all this size nonsense. I know there are those who just want to position OKC badly and want to present everything in the most negative way. They don't want facts to get in the way.

According to Whole Foods' corporate financials:

Average Size

Stores over eight years old 27,100
Stores between five and eight years old 30,500
Stores between two and five years old 36,000
Stores less than two years old (including relocations) 36,400
All stores in comparable store base 31,200
All stores open at the end of the first quarter 31,300

So, apparently this is right at the footprint they choose. Some are bigger, some are smaller but obviously 35,000 ft is right in their sweet spot. My guess is that they increased size over the last 5 years as a result of their acquisitions.

I trust they are building the size that gives them the best opportunity to maximize their investment and is scaled for the actual site. Just a good business decision.

So can we just stop the childish "mine is bigger than yours".

Or MAYBE they want to build TWO at 35,000 ft in OKC area rather than ONE 45,000. Yeah, I bet that is it. One in Norman/south OKC and one in north central OKC.

here here,

I couldn't have said this better myself.

I think people are going too crazy about the store size.

This store will be of urban design, most likely will have multiple floors (considering the site is a rather small footprint), and ALSO you have to figure there will may not be as much parking included - since it will be at a major employment campus AND be connected to other development which most likely would have 'campus' parking. .....

So, Subtract being over a parking garage and not having liquor (although it could be attached or next door), and you get the idea of what OKC could be getting. ...

People have said "I wish it were the size of this or that store", but those stores have parking garages included in the store's size. .... Maybe OKC's store will have just as much food 'floorspace' as the other big ones?

You would have to figure there would be at least two floors, 1 for ready made/classrooms/tasting/selling/cafe etc. space and the other floor for grocery sales. 35,000 divided by 2 = over 17,000 sq feet per floor. That's the size of Chase tower, Isnt it? Seems pretty big to me to have solely groceries and ready made foods/cafe.

What? That site is plenty big for a 35,000 store with at grade parking. Watch one of my videos that I recorded last week in the "metro's videos" thread. I only recorded half that site and it's more than big enough for a HUGE mixed-use development, let alone if you count the whole megablock. It could comfortably fit one of the 70,000sq. ft stores plus other retail/hotel/housing.

As I mentioned, WF recently relocated a store very close to me here in Southern California; it was an older store of about 18,000 sq. ft. and they moved to a 35,000 sq. ft. space just down the road. That new store is HUGE and everybody raves about the size and selection.

Remember they don't stock aisle upon aisle of big-brand soda, sports drink, water, and other bulk items. They also don't carry hardware and all the various sundries you see in a typical grocery store.

So, that 35,000 sq. ft. is devoted largely to food and lots and lots of prepared food. You compare that to a standard-sized grocery store of about 45,000 sq. ft. and you'll see that there is tons and tons of stuff in this size of a WF's.

I'll try and take some photos and post them because I think the store near me will be very close in not only size but in offerings. And I can assure you, it is impressive.

As I mentioned, WF recently relocated a store very close to me here in Southern California; it was an older store of about 18,000 sq. ft. and they moved to a 35,000 sq. ft. space just down the road. That new store is HUGE and everybody raves about the size and selection.


So, that 35,000 sq. ft. is devoted largely to food and lots and lots of prepared food. You compare that to a standard-sized grocery store of about 45,000 sq. ft. and you'll see that there is tons and tons of stuff in this size of a WF's.

:bow:

Thank you!

Now can we speculate about who is going to design the building?

:bow:

Thank you!

Now can we speculate about who is going to design the building?

Chesapeake will own the land and the building. Who's designing it is easy.

:)

I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.

If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.

I've never been that impressed with the architecture of Whole Foods stores. The insides are always far better than the outsides. Perhaps it will be a collaboration, with Whole Foods dictating the footprint and Rand doing the exterior.

I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.
I posted a link in one of the WF threads to the architect that does most of their stores.


If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.
Some of the square footage is dedicated to things other than product, like cooking demonstration/classrooms and such.

I've never been that impressed with the architecture of Whole Foods stores. The insides are always far better than the outsides. Perhaps it will be a collaboration, with Whole Foods dictating the footprint and Rand doing the exterior.

Really? They're much nicer than any other grocery store I've seen by far, especially compared to the status quo around here, Walmart, Homeland or BFL.



I know we all want to jump to Rand, but for some reason I think Whole Foods will insist on using their architects over (especially) Rand.

If people rave about the size and selection of a 35,000 sf Whole Foods, and considering I haven't been in the huger stores, I wonder what a 72,000 sf Whole Foods is like. It must be like an IKEA of organic produce.

You should go to the Park Lane store next time your in Dallas, it's AMAZING. I'm kind of surprised the small selection on dry goods and some other areas, the produce selection and meat counters are wonderful.

I think the WF architecture is all over the map, design speaking. I have seen many in no more than a strip mall like Belle Isle or free standing building like a typical Okie walmart marketplace.

I do have high expectations for the CC WF.

In all honesty, the Brookside WF is one of the better ones I've been to. Best ones I've been too are obviously downtown Austin and Westheimer and Wilcrest in the River Oaks are of Houston was surprisingly awesome.

I too have high hopes for this one. The site is pretty awesome, loaded with potential, if you ask me.

I think the WF architecture is all over the map, design speaking. I have seen many in no more than a strip mall like Belle Isle or free standing building like a typical Okie walmart marketplace.

I do have high expectations for the CC WF.

I agree with this. One of the ones in Atlanta is in a strip mall that also has a Home Depot. Yes, the nicest ones are nicer than almost any grocery stores I've shopped in anywhere. But, personally, I think Rand can design a better one. That's just my personal opinion. Of course, I like Classen Curve and almost everything he's done, so that might be my bias speaking.

The newer stores are definitely more upscale and attractive than those built over 5 years ago.

I agree with this. One of the ones in Atlanta is in a strip mall that also has a Home Depot. Yes, the nicest ones are nicer than almost any grocery stores I've shopped in anywhere. But, personally, I think Rand can design a better one. That's just my personal opinion. Of course, I like Classen Curve and almost everything he's done, so that might be my bias speaking.

I like Rand too, but I once made the mistake on my blog of suggesting that his architecture is popularly liked in Oklahoma. I got two emails from other prominent architects that I bet you know of telling me that they do not share the man crush on Rand. So it is what it is LOL.

I like Rand too, but I once made the mistake on my blog of suggesting that his architecture is popularly liked in Oklahoma. I got two emails from other prominent architects that I bet you know of telling me that they do not share the man crush on Rand. So it is what it is LOL.

It's like any other kind of creative endeavors. Sometimes a writer is popular and is considered a literary "great," while 90% of the public would hate their style. Same with artists. Sometimes people think they're "supposed" to like a given writer, artist, architect, or whatever when deep down they think "eeeewwww." Personally, I think Rand falls into this category for a lot of people - even professionals in the field.

I haven't been much of a fan of his design work, what I really appreciate about him is his ability to attract clients that allow him to do the kind of work that he does and his challenging of the "architectural norm" in the city/state. I do not like I.M. Pei's work at all and after having to space plan in several of his Dallas buildings it gave me more of a disdain for his work but I could never fault him for being able to do that kind of work.

Just because I don't particularly like a design doesn't mean that I can't appreciate it.

I just was at the WF on P Street in Washington. It was unbelievable. It had a town square atmosphere with the outdoor patio, outdoor cooking, flower shop, etc. Hope we get one like that...

I believe Whole Foods here in OKC will be the anchor store to a strip of stores. Neighboring stores might include dry cleaners, hair salon, etc... and possibly a Whole Foods Liquor Store.

I don't think we'll see a dry cleaners or that type of retail in this "strip mall." I will be very disappointed in Chesapeake's hyped-up Classen Curve/mixed-use development masterplan if the WF site does turn out to be a strip mall and it does have Mastercuts, California Nail, Scott Cleaners, etc..

If they can't sell wine and high point beer inside the grocery store, which they obviously can't, then I could care less if it's next door. I probably still wouldn't use it really. It wouldn't be anymore convenient than any other liquor store. Plus, I thnk it'd be a bad idea to have a liquor store in that development, whether It was done by whole foods or not.

If they can't sell wine and high point beer inside the grocery store, which they obviously can't, then I could care less if it's next door. I probably still wouldn't use it really. It wouldn't be anymore convenient than any other liquor store. Plus, I thnk it'd be a bad idea to have a liquor store in that development, whether It was done by whole foods or not.

Why is having a liquor store in that development a bad idea? And why would having one next door not be convenient? Usually when people go food shopping, especially at high end places like WF, there is a high likelihood that they will want to have a drink with meals that they cook. Especially wine/beer and food pairings. If we can't get alcohol inside, at least having one next door is useful, like most states with similar liquor laws do. It is likely the best we can do for now, and it works.

I think a shop similar to Broadway Wine Merchants would be a great idea for the development.

Why is having a liquor store in that development a bad idea? And why would having one next door not be convenient? Usually when people go food shopping, especially at high end places like WF, there is a high likelihood that they will want to have a drink with meals that they cook. Especially wine/beer and food pairings. If we can't get alcohol inside, at least having one next door is useful, like most states with similar liquor laws do. It is likely the best we can do for now, and it works.

I think a shop similar to Broadway Wine Merchants would be a great idea for the development.

I just dont think its best to have a liquor store in an upscale development. Even if it is a nice one. I say it wouldnt be that convenient because there is already liquor stores everywhere, usually one within a mile of most homes. It would be super convenient if it was in the store and you could purchase food and wine at once. However, if there was one next door you would have to go purchase booze, put it in your hot car in the sun, then go in for 25 minutes to grocery shop and then come out to spoiled wine. Not really convenient. I dont see why everyone is hoping there will be a liquor store next door. Whole Foods offers stuff that you cant really get anywhere else, but a liquor store would have basically the same stuff as any other liquor store.

strip, it wouldn't be just your 'common OKC liquor store', it would be an upscale 'destination-style' store. And if under the WF banner, it could be used for pairings as well as tasting and classes.

I could definitely see this working next door and HOPE that is the plan, since like others have mentioned - people who shop at upper end groceries usually buy wine (especially so) to have with their meals.

I just dont think its best to have a liquor store in an upscale development. Even if it is a nice one. I say it wouldnt be that convenient because there is already liquor stores everywhere, usually one within a mile of most homes. It would be super convenient if it was in the store and you could purchase food and wine at once. However, if there was one next door you would have to go purchase booze, put it in your hot car in the sun, then go in for 25 minutes to grocery shop and then come out to spoiled wine. Not really convenient. I dont see why everyone is hoping there will be a liquor store next door. Whole Foods offers stuff that you cant really get anywhere else, but a liquor store would have basically the same stuff as any other liquor store.

You have a point, but its not as bad as you think. Usually I buy food first and then run in and buy wine and beer. I've been doing this lately at the Homeland on May and Britton (w Cellars next door), and it works well. Maybe I don't browse around for awhile, but having bought food, I generally know what kind of grape or beer I'm looking for, etc. It really does work, many people do it, and have been doing it for quite awhile in other states. Its a mutually beneficial situation. Not ideal I agree, but not a deal breaker IMO.

Good point hot rod about wine tastings/etc being offered by an upscale shope. Broadway Wine Merchants does this, I still think that concept, regardless of whether it is owned by WF or not, would be great.

They're tearing out the parking lot that faces Western and are putting a debris fence around the site. I see a few of the little pink flags too. I'm not sure when anything is happening, but it looks like a building site.

betts is right, they've been moving pretty aggressively ever since the announcement was official. when riding to work this morning, the demolition crews for the parking lot were out there.

betts is right, they've been moving pretty aggressively ever since the announcement was official. when riding to work this morning, the demolition crews for the parking lot were out there.

We should get a WF construction cam going! Works for the Devon Tower...:Smiley112

If nothing else, I'll try to keep taking my regular pics and vids.

I just dont think its best to have a liquor store in an upscale development. Even if it is a nice one.

Check out the one at Broadway and 6th in Automobile Alley..hell of a lot nicer than Byron's.

Crossing my fingers for an REI next door! :D


Check out the one at Broadway and 6th in Automobile Alley..hell of a lot nicer than Byron's.

8th & Broadway.

Or Put a Cork In It, on the Bricktown Canal..

Never saw this JR article posted from 2 weeks ago. Great news for the local food industry and farmers.

Market’s ripe for farmers: Whole Foods searches for local producers

By April Wilkerson
April is a reporter in Oklahoma City. Contact her at 278-2849.
Posted: 06:28 PM Thursday, July 22, 2010

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OKLAHOMA CITY – As the Whole Foods Market site gets under way, another process is taking place: the search for local farmers interested in selling produce and other items to the store.

Chris Romano, Whole Foods’ produce and floral coordinator for the Southwest, has begun talking to Oklahoma farmers and visiting farmers markets and grocery stores to get a flavor of what the state eats. In recent years, Whole Foods has renewed its commitment to carrying produce and grocery items from a store’s surrounding residents, he said, and Oklahoma’s burgeoning farmers market community bodes well.

Much of those conversations are being facilitated through the OSU-OKC Farmers’ Market, whose Wednesday market at 63rd Street and Western Avenue is nearly in the backyard of the Whole Foods site. Cheryl Camp, market manager and president of the Oklahoma Farmers’ Market Alliance, said she anticipates 50 to 75 Oklahoma vendors will meet with Romano in a few months to talk about selling to the store. The opportunity is significant because it gives farmers another outlet to make a living, she said, and provides customers another option to buy locally grown food.

In addition, talks are under way about moving the Wednesday market to the Whole Foods property, Romano said.

Camp said the Wednesday market has enjoyed its location near the Chesapeake campus and recently visited the Whole Foods site with Chesapeake representatives.

“To them, it’s a perfect match, and it doesn’t take away from that area,” she said. “It’s been a nice line of conversation for everyone, and we’re looking forward to seeing how it turns out.”

Whole Foods plans to open in late 2011, and Camp said Oklahoma’s outdoor producers are poised to make their entry beginning with the spring crops of 2012. The on-site meeting with Romano will likely be this fall after the major growing and picking season, when producers have a little more time to spare.

“You have to plan your crops – what you’re going to invest, how much you plant. That takes advance planning and saving,” Camp said. “So we’re going to have that conversation this year. The greenhouse growers can get in on things when Whole Foods opens in 2011, then spring 2012 especially we’ll be instrumental in helping Whole Foods find enough local growers to fill their store.”

The opportunity benefits local farmers in several ways, said Evelyn Bollenbach, senior director of marketing and communications for OSU-OKC. In addition to the chance to make more money, the farmers reap the marketing benefit of Whole Foods’ locally grown message.

“Whole Foods has promotional dollars behind them, and people treat Whole Foods almost as a tourist attraction,” Bollenbach said. “The exposure an Oklahoma grower can gain by having that connection is what’s so significant. It’s like having a marketing team they otherwise wouldn’t have.”

Romano said Whole Foods contracts with producers of all sizes, and there are no strict minimum-maximum product rules. But producers, in addition to having the standard wholesale business requirements, must meet Whole Foods’ quality standards of no artificial colors, preservatives, flavors or sweeteners, he said. The company sells both organic and conventionally grown goods, but “no artificial” is the overriding rule, he said.

Each state’s crops are different, so the team leaders and buyers for each store create their own partnerships with local producers and remain participatory in what’s on the shelves, Romano said.

“The stores run very autonomously,” he said. “We like that opportunity for our team members and buyers within the stores to do their own vetting – what works within the community.”

Prices paid to local producers are established on a case-by-case basis, Romano said. Producers of longer-term shelf items usually receive a long-term negotiated price, while items like produce and seafood tend to fluctuate every few weeks and are negotiated at the purchase time.

When Whole Foods opens an additional store in a state – which is Oklahoma’s situation with the existing Tulsa store – producers often use that as an opportunity to increase their crops and grow into an additional market, Romano said.

Whole Foods also has a loan program to help producers with their growth. Producers can apply to receive up to $100,000 in a low-interest loan to expand their capabilities or improve efficiencies, which is usually related to new equipment, Romano said.

“It’s a great opportunity for them to grow their business,” he said. “We want the vendors to succeed, not only so they can sell their produce but so they can pay their loans. So we’re vested twice.”

Romano said this time leading up to the opening of a new store is his favorite because he gets to know the farmers and feels like he’s making a difference in their livelihood. If he happens to sample a watermelon in the field or bite into a peach right off the tree, that’s icing on the cake.

Johnny Roberts, market development coordinator for the Oklahoma Department of Agriculture, said the Whole Foods presence shouldn’t hurt local farmers markets and may even give them a boost.

“We can’t get enough locally grown fresh produce in our neighborhoods around the state,” he said. “Anything like this that will encourage folks to look at growing fruits and vegetables will be a plus. This should be a win-win because farmers can boost their production and have a guaranteed sale with Whole Foods then have extra acres for the farmers markets.”

For information about contracting with Whole Foods, e-mail chris.romano@wholefoods.com.

I had never been to Whole Foods until two weeks ago. We were there for the infamous Rascal Flatts concert. Let me tell you, Whole Foods is an amazing store. They have the best looking meat, bakery, and produce dept. They have a restaurant of sorts that you can pick out your food, kinda like a self serve buffet, but it isn't an all you can eat. I saw several things I wanted to try. They have organic body wash, all the vitamins and things you'd find in the drug dept at Wal Mart but these are all natural and organic. The body wash I bought smells so good. We were kinda limited to what we could buy because we were traveling, but got some bakery items, the body wash, and some other things that wouldn't perish in the heat. They said that the store in OKC is going to be bigger than the one in Tulsa, and that our store will have a cooking school. I couldn't afford to shop there for everything. But for meats, produce, and certain items you might like to try, it's going to be fun to have them here. I'm going back in two weeks, and can't wait to go.

It is a great store. I have said before that the biggest thing I hope we see out of our WF store is that it will improve the other grocery stores in the area. I have been in two grocery stores within the last week in Kansas City and in Exeter, NH and both just seemed so much more upscale than my local Homeland. It is not so much the product mix, but more the physical aesthetics of the store.

I went by the site today on the way to the Curve and was surprised not to see any progress. Does anyone know what is going on? We have not had rain in weeks and so I wonder what has stopped the work.

I drive by every day, they are out there with a full crew everyday, have you not noticed the MASSIVE amounts of dirt moved?

Considering that the construction has somewhat started, at least the site prep work. Has anyone seen an architectural rendering of the new Whole Foods?

There's rebar sitting in the center of the plot so I'm guessing they'll be working on footings soon. I haven't seen a rendering.

That is a good point: there has to be a rendering out there for this store, even if it was a fast tracked design build store they would have at least some preliminary versions out there. Someone here ought to be able to pull it off!

I thought I read in an article that the store here was going to be half the size of the one in Tulsa, which is roughly 70ksf (making ours 35ksf--which seems awfully small)?

I don't know how big the one it Tulsa is, but Whole Foods' own website says the OKC store will be the largest in the state.

http://wholefoodsmarket.com/pressroom/blog/2010/05/12/whole-foods-market®-announces-plans-to-build-store-in-oklahoma-city-near-classen-curve-development-and-chesapeake-energy-campus/

I thought I read in an article that the store here was going to be half the size of the one in Tulsa, which is roughly 70ksf (making ours 35ksf--which seems awfully small)?

The Tulsa WF is not 70k s.f. That is likely the s.f. of the entire shopping complex that it's attached to. I'm guessing their store is around 30K s.f.

I thought I read in an article that the store here was going to be half the size of the one in Tulsa, which is roughly 70ksf (making ours 35ksf--which seems awfully small)?

No.

The Tulsa store is pretty small; it wasn't originally a Whole Foods, it was a Wild Oats, which had smaller footprints.

The OKC store will be about twice as big as the Tulsa store, although it wouldn't shock me to see Tulsa get another store at some point as busy as that one is.

The largest WF stores are in the 70-80K range, the flagship store in Downtown Austin is just over 80K with all of the extra stuff that it has. Most of the new stores in development are in the same size range as OKC store, they had a statement they were moving away from the larger store concept and back to around 40K. The proposed replacement store for the Austin Gateway location with its move to the Domain was supposed to be in the mid-70's but it was also supposed to be open by the end of this year and they put it on hold in November of 2008. I have heard that when the next phase of The Domain gets started it will more than likely be smaller. They have also announced three more Austin area stores in the next few years (other than the existing Downtown/Gateway-Domain locations) and they are supposed to be mid-30's.

I thought I read in an article that the store here was going to be half the size of the one in Tulsa, which is roughly 70ksf (making ours 35ksf--which seems awfully small)?

As others stated, it will be about 5,000 sq. ft bigger than the one in Tulsa. Tulsa is one of the smallest in the company. There are only 4 or 5 70Ksq.ft stores in the world, one is in London, Chicago, Austin, Dallas (Parklane), and I think in DC? They aren't going to build any more megastores.


No.

The Tulsa store is pretty small; it wasn't originally a Whole Foods, it was a Wild Oats, which had smaller footprints.

The OKC store will be about twice as big as the Tulsa store, although it wouldn't shock me to see Tulsa get another store at some point as busy as that one is.

Not quite twice as big but yes bigger. Every time I go to the Tulsa store, it's dead. I know plenty of people from OKC that shop there too, once OKC's store opens, no more need to drive to Tulsa WF. I'd see OKC getting a 2nd location before Tulsa due to our population and the pent up demand. Tulsa has better alternatives already.

Just FYI, here's the email for the Oklahoma WF media rep:

Laura.Zappi@wholefoods.com

She might know if and when there will be renderings available.

To all my Okie friends who are impressed with Whole Foods:

Whole Foods is a really nice store...for some of your grocery shopping. Have you ever been inside a Central Market? It makes Whole Foods look like a really great convenience store. The cheese selection is easily twice what it is at WF. Great wine and beer selection too. It's the only place I know of that you can buy Jamon Iberica and Jamon Bellota; dry cured hams from Spain. Iberica is around $52 a pound, Belotta pushes $100 a pound. This is not ham that you make sandwiches with.

Thanks for all of the replies to my one inquiry. That's actually surprising to me. The space that they're to build on seems so small, but then again, lots always look small until something is built (or destroyed).

Yes most of us have been to a Central Market not impressed, but of course it's light years better than anything we currently have. Have you been to a Whole Foods flagship store? HEB? Trader Joes?

Not quite twice as big but yes bigger. Every time I go to the Tulsa store, it's dead. I know plenty of people from OKC that shop there too, once OKC's store opens, no more need to drive to Tulsa WF. I'd see OKC getting a 2nd location before Tulsa due to our population and the pent up demand. Tulsa has better alternatives already.

Thanks for the clarification on size. I would have to disagree with you about how busy that Tulsa store is. I go there at least once a month (sometimes more frequently) and it is always teeming with people. Not sure what time of day you've been there. It's even crazier on weekends.

You may be right about OKC supporting a second location before Tulsa -- and that stands to reason, as we have Norman and Edmond as suburbs, which trump Jenks and Owasso, IMO.

I do agree that Tulsa already has better grocery alternatives than OKC, although the new Crest on the south side is very nice, Forward Foods serves an important niche, and Crescent Market is fairly decent.

Been to the Tulsa store many of times, usually during early evening or weekends. I would almost guarantee the OKC store will be MUCH busier from day one.

Been to the Tulsa store many of times, usually during early evening or weekends. I would almost guarantee the OKC store will be MUCH busier from day one.

I agree with you on that! The OKC store is going to be completely insane and will probably do twice the volume the Tulsa store does.

Yes most of us have been to a Central Market not impressed, but of course it's light years better than anything we currently have. Have you been to a Whole Foods flagship store? HEB? Trader Joes?

You do realize Central Market > HEB don't you?

Yes, Central Market is owned by HEB but they are managed separately, in fact the HEB buyers are in San Antonio and the Central Market buyers are in Dallas. I found that out a few weeks ago when a friend developed a product for HEB but had to "sell it" to CM.

I prefer CM over WF but the stores can vary greatly.

It's the only place I know of that you can buy Jamon Iberica and Jamon Bellota; dry cured hams from Spain. Iberica is around $52 a pound, Belotta pushes $100 a pound. This is not ham that you make sandwiches with.

That's crazy. Even if I was a multi-millionaire, there isn't any ham in the world worth that unless you're just trying to impress someone.

I noticed the WF in Tulsa is expanding to the west. I'm not sure how many more square feet it will add. It's next to the cafe/prepared foods area so it could be an expansion of that.

I think the 3rd WF location in Oklahoma will be in Norman. Not sure where in Norman but I could see it going there as the one in OKC is pretty centrally-located for most of the city as well as Edmond (for now), and Norman would serve far south OKC/Moore in addition to the 110,000 people in Norman itself.

Norman would serve far south OKC/MooreI really think that is not true.

I think the 3rd WF location in Oklahoma will be in Norman. Not sure where in Norman but I could see it going there as the one in OKC is pretty centrally-located for most of the city as well as Edmond (for now), and Norman would serve far south OKC/Moore in addition to the 110,000 people in Norman itself.


I agree with this. At one time, I actually wondered if Norman would get a store before OKC, as its demographics and psychographics are totally on target for Whole Foods.

I noticed the WF in Tulsa is expanding to the west. I'm not sure how many more square feet it will add. It's next to the cafe/prepared foods area so it could be an expansion of that.

I think the 3rd WF location in Oklahoma will be in Norman. Not sure where in Norman but I could see it going there as the one in OKC is pretty centrally-located for most of the city as well as Edmond (for now), and Norman would serve far south OKC/Moore in addition to the 110,000 people in Norman itself.

Yes, in spite of metro's continued observations that everything in Tulsa is dead and about out of business the Tulsa Whole Foods is expanding for the second time. Now they are taking over the gift shop and pharmacy that were next door. The store will go all the way over to the liquor store. They look to be adding 50-60% more space, I would guess the store will be 45-50,000 square feet when they are done.

Also, according to the Tulsa Whole Foods facebook page the company will again be looking at a south Tulsa store once the OKC store is open.