To those upset or less-than-enthused by this not being downtown, do you have any idea where Tulsa's is? It is WAY south of downtown at 41st and Peoria, so south of downtown, Cherry Street, Brookside and many would even say pushing the boundary of Midtown.

41st & Peoria is considered Brookside and is very much within the boundaries of midtown. Is less than 4 miles "WAY south" and "so south of downtown"? Geographically a similar location in OKC would be Crown Heights just south of 44 as far as distance from downtown OKC. The Classen Curve/Chesapeake/Nichols Hills is a great place for WF.

Mmmk Oil Capital, would you like to imply that Wild Oats owns the building at 41st and Peoria? That's rich. I presume you're just trying to pick an argument with me at all costs, so you're grasping at straws trying to pick at anything you can. And for the record, Whole Foods DID renovate the 41st/Peoria location shortly after they acquired it from Wild Oats.



mmmm... You cannot be serious. You read that post and seriously want to pretend to believe that I was implying that Wild Oats owns the building? Seriously? Rich, indeed.

Let me spell it out in short declarative sentences. Wild Oats does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria.l Whole Foods does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods leases the building at 41st and Peoria.

My post was solely for the purpose of correcting your misstatements with regard to the ownership and construction of the building at 41st and Peoria.

And for the record, Whole Foods' renovation of the store is completely irrelevant to the question of who owns the building. Leased stores are routinely renovated by lessees.

I'll make you a deal: You stop posting made-up "facts" and I'll stop correcting you.

WAY south? It's like a ten minute ride on Riverside drive from downtown, and it's in a hip, walkable mixed-use area. Quit knocking Tulsa. 41st and Peoria is certainly closer in than 63rd and Western.

Yes, it's about a mile closer.

Spartan, the new metro!

mmmm... You cannot be serious. You read that post and seriously want to pretend to believe that I was implying that Wild Oats owns the building? Seriously? Rich, indeed.

Let me spell it out in short declarative sentences. Wild Oats does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria.l Whole Foods does not own the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods never has owned the building at 41st and Peoria. Wild Oats did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods did not build the building at 41st and Peoria. Whole Foods leases the building at 41st and Peoria.

My post was solely for the purpose of correcting your misstatements with regard to the ownership and construction of the building at 41st and Peoria.

And for the record, Whole Foods' renovation of the store is completely irrelevant to the question of who owns the building. Leased stores are routinely renovated by lessees.

I'll make you a deal: You stop posting made-up "facts" and I'll stop correcting you.

Why don't you look it up on the Tulsa County Assessor's website, ****.. you don't know **** either. Nice try for the "revelations" you try and post though.

So if this were in the real world, here's how the conversation would go:
Person A: Whole Foods opened and built a lot of its stores including the one in Tulsa.
Person B: Are you sure about the Tulsa store? I thought it was originally a Wild Oats store?
Person A: Yeah, you know, I think you're right. But I'm pretty sure Whole Foods did an extensive renovation there as part of the conversation.
Person B: That might be right. I imagine this store will be a lot different because it will be a lot newer.
Person A: No kidding! Now let's both make fun of Tulsa! (OK, I'm just making up this last bit hoping to keep the conversation within the expectations of our neighbors to the north).

Arrgh. I suppose I was mostly ticked off by the "Spartan, the new metro" comment. ha

Yeah, I'm sure Metro had the same reaction. You guys are like dysfunctional brothers.:numchucks

Why don't you look it up on the Tulsa County Assessor's website, ****.. you don't know **** either. Nice try for the "revelations" you try and post though.

If you want to refer to my corrections of your error-filled posts as "revelations", I suppose that is your call. Personally, I just call them facts. Nothing fancy, nothing mysterious, nothing exotic, just simple facts that anyone can find if they are so disposed.

Yeah, I'm sure Metro had the same reaction. You guys are like dysfunctional brothers.:numchucks

They got the idea from the movie Step Brothers (with Will Farrel) from us, you didn't get the memo at the Oklahoman?

If you want to refer to my corrections of your error-filled posts as "revelations", I suppose that is your call. Personally, I just call them facts. Nothing fancy, nothing mysterious, nothing exotic, just simple facts that anyone can find if they are so disposed.

Okay Oil Capital, so.. I guess the question is, who owns the Whole Foods bldg? I'm dying to see what you might say.

Ladies, ladies...relax! Let's just celebrate the confirmation! Who cares about Tulsa?!?

Or do we need to whip out the old 20+ page Whole Foods thread? At least we were civil (for the most part) there. Let's bury it and make this one the nice replacement :Smiley063

They got the idea from the movie Step Brothers (with Will Farrel) from us, you didn't get the memo at the Oklahoman?

That's the first laugh I've had all day. Thanks Metro.
Back to the topic: did anyone notice in my story how Oshel referred to Whole Foods preferring to locate with certain tenants? Do you read anything into that?

http://biobreak.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/step-brothers-movie-07.jpg

That's the first laugh I've had all day. Thanks Metro.
Back to the topic: did anyone notice in my story how Oshel referred to Whole Foods preferring to locate with certain tenants? Do you read anything into that?

I found it very interesting. Kind of like a package deal with certain tenants. Maybe not necessarily particular chains; possibly more like "approved" tenants?

Is there a cage-fighting facility in Stroud where this can be settled? Winner gets a gift cert to the Whole Foods of his choice.

I found it very interesting. Kind of like a package deal with certain tenants. Maybe not necessarily particular chains; possibly more like "approved" tenants?

I hope this doesn't slow things up for another two years. This "signed lease" could have a few contingencies, and such slowing down the "official annoucement" with scheduled opening date / site location.

That's the first laugh I've had all day. Thanks Metro.
Back to the topic: did anyone notice in my story how Oshel referred to Whole Foods preferring to locate with certain tenants? Do you read anything into that?

I read that they likely wish to find space with other high-end retailers or anchor tenants. Based on suburban models of Whole Foods I've visited lately, where they've built from scratch (NOT in an existing location a la Tulsa), they've been around some pretty popular national big box retailers. Somehow I don't see that happening in this particular space, though.

Is there a cage-fighting facility in Stroud where this can be settled? Winner gets a gift cert to the Whole Foods of his choice.

:LolLolLol

I would go to ridiculous lengths of embarrassing myself to get an OKC Whole Foods gift certificate.

Steve, I don't really read anything into Alison Oshel's statement..she was probably just referring to the pros of locating by Classen Curve, which has Balliet's and a current/hot reputation for retail, as opposed to downtown.

:LolLolLol

I would go to ridiculous lengths of embarrassing myself to get an OKC Whole Foods gift certificate.

Someone call The Lost Ogle. We need to get this on tape.

I'm not sure where you're headed with this, but I'm not really interested in a philosophical discussion of human nature. My mentioning of that phrase was intended to make the point that the average person won't regularly go far out of their way to get a top-quality product if it's an burdensome inconvenience of time and effort and a "good enough" product will suffice. Lets just leave it at that on this thread. :wink:

I ask because so many use "human nature", as much as they blame "the devil".
I just wanted to know if you were using as a figure of speech or if you saw more into it.
Sorry! lol

:LolLolLol

I would go to ridiculous lengths of embarrassing myself to get an OKC Whole Foods gift certificate.

Steve, I don't really read anything into Alison Oshel's statement..she was probably just referring to the pros of locating by Classen Curve, which has Balliet's and a current/hot reputation for retail, as opposed to downtown.

Now, go and read the "Chesapeake development announcement" thread, which I don't think was started spontaneously...

No, it's a done deal okclee.

Okay Oil Capital, so.. I guess the question is, who owns the Whole Foods bldg? I'm dying to see what you might say.

The Whole Foods building in Tulsa is owned by a local Tulsa company by the name of Venture Properties.

[QUOTE=MadMonk;324732]Well to each their own. Judging only by your name I imagine that you are more of a food connoisseur than the average person and can only assume you have more time to do your shopping than I do. :tiphat:


:kicking:Worked hard many years, now retired, so yes. . .don't answer to the alarm, can shop pretty much whenever/wherever I please, Thank you very much. Not sure about the "connoisseur" part. . .I'd justknow I'd rather have a little bit of something very good (or even better. . . something great!!) than a lot of something average or bad. . .and it doubles the fun if it's also different!!

To say "only" 10,000 people live in downtown Austin is perhaps a bit misleading. Just including the campus neighborhoods and part of Clarksville, there are over 30,000 people in about three square miles, and this entire area has an urban fabric akin to a "downtown." Moreover, central Austin is the most desirable part of town and thus most of the neighborhoods in and surrounding downtown are filled with the very kind of people who will shop at Whole Foods. In OKC, by contrast, most of the areas surrounding downtown (excluding those to the north) are among the least desirable in town.

Though I'm perhaps tripping over your choice of words, your assertion that WF is in downtown Austin "just because that's where the HQ is" seems a bit, well, silly. If WF wasn't there, it is almost certain that something else would have filled the void by now (I also note the presence of Central Market ~2 miles away, and the well-publicized interest HEB has in a downtown store)--even by your own admission, the store is wildly successful, perhaps mostly because there's an "effective" downtown population larger than 10,000 there to support it.
The "10,000" was based from quotes of Mayor Wynn during his 25,000 by 2015 stuff, which was based on that number (25,000) in the Central Business District, not the areas south of the river, east of I-35 or the campus area. Granted that number is probably a little higher now and will grow some when some of the projects currently under construction are completed.

Whole Foods didn't have a downtown location until they built the new one, although they were pretty close to downtown. What I was trying to say is that store probably wouldn't be in that location if it wasn't for the fact that the HQ was locating downtown. Looking at it as an "outsider" looking to locate there it would probably be somewhere on Lamar and possibly close to where Central Market is located. A store alone would probably have had a hard time justifying that particular parcel on a cost/benefit analysis.

What I was also trying to say is the downtown population is not what keeps the 6th & Lamar location packed, it is the entire city and those who make it a point to go out of their way to make WF a destination not just a convienence stop like a HEB or Randall's might be. I know people who work downtown but live far away from there that shop at WF very frequently, I also know quite a few who do and do not live anywhere near downtown. It attracts from far and wide, so it is not just downtown or an "effective" downtown population that supports it. I feel that an OKC store will be much the same in the area that it draws from.

For what it's worth, I suspect the Classen Curve location of Whole Foods is still a boost to downtown, considering many downtown residents currently do their grocery shopping at the Belle Isle Walmart, which is nearby.

Belle Isle Wal-Mart, really? I do not like that walmart, could be the
worst in the metro, right up there with 240 & Shields.

Do downtown residents shop there? I know I don't but that is just one.

I would be curious as to where downtown residents shop for groceries?

Homeland on Classen for me.

Homeland on Classen for me.

yea

Belle Isle Wal-Mart, really? I do not like that walmart, could be the
worst in the metro, right up there with 240 & Shields.

Do downtown residents shop there? I know I don't but that is just one.

I would be curious as to where downtown residents shop for groceries?

Why do you think that one is the worst in the Metro? It is having a remodel right now...new color scheme, new shelving and they have totally reworked the floorplan. Personally, I want them to put everything back where I knew where it was...LOL

Is your objection because they are busy (I-240 always seems packed)?

I wonder if WF will do what they do with liquor in NYC and use a side-by-side concept, with a next door store with separate entrance selling wine and beer. Don't know if we have some sort of archaic law make that an impossibility, but if not, surely Aubrey has enough power to thwart the liquor lobby and make that happen.

Belle Isle Wal-Mart, really? I do not like that walmart, could be the
worst in the metro, right up there with 240 & Shields.

Do downtown residents shop there? I know I don't but that is just one.

I would be curious as to where downtown residents shop for groceries?

Unfortunately we (my wife and I, downtowners) usually shop at the Belle Isle Walmart for price and convenience. Occasionally we'll pick up a few items at the Braums or Homeland at 17th and Classen or the occasional Crest visit on 23rd and Meridian. And every few months drive to WF in Dallas or Tulsa for items you just can't get in OKC until this store is built. I know many other DT'ers that also shop at the Belle Isle Walmart. I agree with it being probably the worst in the metro, although the new remodel has helped the appearance of it tremendously, you still have a crowd there that doesn't mind slapping their children and telling them to shut up while yapping on the cell phone talking to their bf or baby daddy. :doh: You've also got ridiculously long lines too; I remember when Walmart had more than enough cashiers. One of the first things my wife and I are doing next year or so when we become debt free, is switching over to Target and now hopefully WF for all our shopping as our reward.

Why does Wal-Mart put in 30 check out lanes if they only use 4 of them?

Christmas only I suppose.

I wonder if WF will do what they do with liquor in NYC and use a side-by-side concept, with a next door store with separate entrance selling wine and beer. Don't know if we have some sort of archaic law make that an impossibility, but if not, surely Aubrey has enough power to thwart the liquor lobby and make that happen.

...And we have a winner.

Belle Isle Wal-Mart, really? I do not like that walmart, could be the
worst in the metro, right up there with 240 & Shields.

Do downtown residents shop there? I know I don't but that is just one.

I would be curious as to where downtown residents shop for groceries?

5% Braums
10% Homeland
40% WM Neighborhood Market
45% WM Belle Isle

5% braums
10% homeland
40% wm neighborhood market
45% wm belle isle

x2

5% Braums
10% Homeland
40% WM Neighborhood Market
45% WM Belle Isle

So none of the downtown residents shop at farmers markets or support other local businesses besides Braums?

5% Braums
10% Homeland
40% WM Neighborhood Market
45% WM Belle Isle

Braums or Buy for Less.... Oklahoma owned and operated people!!! And unlike OKCMallen says... Buy for Less is not a 'complete dump.'

So none of the downtown residents shop at farmers markets or support other local businesses besides Braums?

I'm surprised by this as well. I boycott Wal-Mart and any and all Wal-Mart-related stores and have for about a decade.

So none of the downtown residents shop at farmers markets or support other local businesses besides Braums?

Sorry, thought you just meant which store I shop at for regular groceries. Yes, I buy from the farmer's market. I support every local business I can. I buy things from the market at La Baguette, buy seafood from local seafood stores. Haven't been to Forward Foods yet because I've been so busy, but will do so soon. As I've said, I'd love a small downtown market. I'd be delighted if it was opened and run by someone locally. If I didn't have a job, I might think about doing it myself. I shop at Target sometimes as well, but since the big grocery store is up at Memorial and Penn, I've got to be up there for something else already.

I boycott Walmart as well. Unless I need a printer at 2 o'clock in the morning. Then, my principles go by the wayside.

I think Braum's should wise up an create a full-on grocery store concept.

I wonder if WF will do what they do with liquor in NYC and use a side-by-side concept, with a next door store with separate entrance selling wine and beer. Don't know if we have some sort of archaic law make that an impossibility, but if not, surely Aubrey has enough power to thwart the liquor lobby and make that happen.

There is no law preventing liquor stores from opening next door to a supermarket. I can't count how many 7-Elevens have liquor stores as a next door neighbor. In fact, the Conoco Breakplace on Memorial and May have a liquor store and convenience store in a single building, and both establishments share the same name (it escaped me right now), but you'll notice there are two signs, one for each entity on the marquee, and they are separated by a wall each with its own entrance.

The law that needs to change is one that requires that the liquor store owner must be a state resident of at least ten years and can be a single owner or limited partnership. This was put on the books to keep out of state corporations from controlling the liquor industry in Oklahoma, which is now controlled by the wholesale cartel.

So none of the downtown residents shop at farmers markets or support other local businesses besides Braums?

Oh, I'd say we shop at the OSU/OKC farmer's market about once a month or so. Would be more if they'd bring it back to DT.

The law that needs to change is one that requires that the liquor store owner must be a state resident of at least ten years and can be a single owner or limited partnership. This was put on the books to keep out of state corporations from controlling the liquor industry in Oklahoma, which is now controlled by the wholesale cartel.

So, if WF holds a lease from Aubrey, the actual owner of the building would be local. I wonder if there's some way they can have a limited partnership with him in the liquor store only that would allow that to happen.

So none of the downtown residents shop at farmers markets or support other local businesses besides Braums?

Well, to be fair, we eat out a lot. Mostly at OKC establishments.

Revision:

2% Farmers Public Market
3% Cao Nguyen
5% Braums
10% Homeland
40% WM Neighborhood Market
40% WM Belle Isle

When WF comes, my proportional breakdown will change dramatically. It's in a different league.

... uh.... I'm a downtown resident... Buy for Less, Braums... and you're right I forgot Cao Nguyen.... but Buy for Less DOES exist PLANSIT.

... uh.... I'm a downtown resident... Buy for Less, Braums... and you're right I forgot Cao Nguyen.... but Buy for Less DOES exist PLANSIT.

We shop at Buy for Less every now and then. Just doesn't tickle my fancy. They do, however, have some of the best ethnic selections.

I wonder if WF will do what they do with liquor in NYC and use a side-by-side concept, with a next door store with separate entrance selling wine and beer.

Interesting thought. Here in Denver none of the WF have liquor. At least none of the ones I've been in. I would imagine that the OKC one will be the same way.

Nobody makes the trip to Super Target?

It's an easy drive maybe 10 minutes all highway. That can be faster than navigating traffic up Classen to walmart and especially traffic and construction along 23rd.

You forget the killer corner: Memorial and Penn. Just thinking about sitting at that light gives me nightmares. It's definitely not worth a drive to go there alone. I might couple it with other shopping on occasion.

Nobody makes the trip to Super Target?

It's an easy drive maybe 10 minutes all highway. That can be faster than navigating traffic up Classen to walmart and especially traffic and construction along 23rd.

I despise highways more than WalMart. And I like to take the scenic route.

Target needs to build an urban store like in Minne:

http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/7472.jpg
Source (http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/pics/7472.jpg)

The Whole Foods thread has degenerated to talking about Wal Mart. Thing about Target is..see that tower rising in the background of that picture, that's their corporate headquarters building.

We have awhile until the WF is actually opened so, The topic has changed to "where do downtown area residents do their grocery shopping?"

I was surprised that Steve mentioned downtown area residents shop at Belle Isle walmart for groceries.

We will be waiting at least a year until the WF is opened and that is one year for Okc grocery stores to get their act together. Maybe this will improve a few of the other grocery stores in the market now.

I think Braum's should wise up an create a full-on grocery store concept.

No!
Braums' knows dairy.
They should focused on their core business.

We have awhile until the WF is actually opened so, The topic has changed to "where do downtown area residents do their grocery shopping?"

I was surprised that Steve mentioned downtown area residents shop at Belle Isle walmart for groceries.

We will be waiting at least a year until the WF is opened and that is one year for Okc grocery stores to get their act together. Maybe this will improve a few of the other grocery stores in the market now.

I cant wait to see WF here.
This will raise the bar for grocery/food markets/stores.

I am NOT a fan of A.M., but I am happy that this is happening.

The Whole Foods thread has degenerated to talking about Wal Mart. Thing about Target is..see that tower rising in the background of that picture, that's their corporate headquarters building.


Except these urban examples not in Minne:

West Hollywood:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2245/1677663271_51bd8d2f33.jpg?v=0

Brooklyn
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/brooklyn.jpg

Stamford, CT
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/stamford.jpg

One being constructed in Washington DC
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/dc.jpg

Chicago
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/chicago.jpg

And sorry for the hijack.

There would be no need for target to build a multi level store in OKC. I imagine that DT population would have to increase x10 for it to be feasible

There would be no need for target to build a multi level store in OKC. I imagine that DT population would have to increase x10 for it to be feasible

Not necessarily true. Denver has a two story Target in a suburban part of town. It's a step in the right direction as far as land use goes. I wouldn't want a typical Target anywhere near downtown. I agree though, population is an issue.

Denver
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c251/ptownsnwbrdr/denver.jpg