Too bad nothing will be done about the I-40/I-44 interchange. I don't even think it is on the ODOT 8-year plan..... will it last that long? Seems to at least need some serious surface work done.

That part is very dangerous. Mom hate to drive out there when brother forces her to take him to work. Getting off of 40 onto 44 leaves very limited time and room to go from one side to the other side for the 15th street exit. People don't seem to know how to slow down and pay attention to signal light lane change. If the time comes that mom somehow get into an accident, ODOT will be sued. I'm curious how the new I-40 will correct it.

Thunder, while the interchange there sucks like most every other one in this city, it is the lane-changing driver's responsibility to MERGE. It is inconvenient and often dangerous to abruptly slow down to let someone onto the interstate or into another lane.

Yeah, I will be surprised if it is opened even by the end of 2012.

Also, there is an exit ramp to the new boulevard just east of Agnew; I don't see how traffic goes under there, there are multiple columns.

Most of the columns you're seeing are temporary construction columns which will later be removed.

Most of the columns you're seeing are temporary construction columns which will later be removed.

Thanks, I began wondering if that was the case.

Too bad nothing will be done about the I-40/I-44 interchange. I don't even think it is on the ODOT 8-year plan..... will it last that long? Seems to at least need some serious surface work done.


They "shaved" it a few years ago...it just didn't last. Then they put that slurry crap down...that didn't last either. But as bumpy as it is, at least it flows.

It doesn't flow between 4PM and 7PM, or whenever there is rain.

It doesn't flow between 4PM and 7PM, or whenever there is rain.

The start problems on i40/i44 interchange between 4 & 7 seem to be more due to i44 southbound than the exchange itself.

New Crosstown Expressway on Schedule (http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_3334.shtml)

New Crosstown Expressway on Schedule (http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_3334.shtml)

Cool.

I don't see why there should be any major delays at this point. Most of the bridges are finished now. The last surfacing contract for the main stretch of road will be awarded next month.



17428(23)* 4 IS040 1.280 I-40 CROSSTOWN: WP 1.3, SURFACING FROM THE OKLAHOMA CITY CANAL WEST
OKCY -XTWN (004) 1.3 MI (OK134)(DEL FR 03-11, ADD TO 05-11; GRADING PROJ NOT FINISHED)
SURFACE 0 20,634,511 0 0 20,634,511
OKLAHOMA
PROPOSED BID OPENING DATE:05/2011

any recent pics? :)

any recent pics? :)

There isn't anything new on their website. The newest video was from March.

http://40forward.com/

any recent pics? :)

Ask and ye shall receive, seek and ye shall find. Pictures were taken Monday the 16th.

View from Western Ave. looking west
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9320/2083y.jpg

View from future westbound on-ramp looking east at Western Ave. Bridge
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/332/2084f.jpg

MSE Retaining Wall with paint (I think this might be a test strip and the different textures of the walls will be different colors)
http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/3026/2085f.jpg

View from Western Ave. looking downtown with future intersection in foreground
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7666/2086h.jpg

View from Western Ave. looking downtown
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7843/2087h.jpg

I don't know where the sidewalk ends but this is where the pavement ends
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9756/2088w.jpg

View from Western Ave. looking east at Walker Ave. bridge construction
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3958/2089h.jpg


Sorry there aren't more but that's all I've got for now.

Nice! Thanks!

They should have gone more creative with the bridges. Instead of plain concrete color, make them creame/beige/tan with some sort of designs within the concrete.

They should have gone more creative with the bridges. Instead of plain concrete color, make them creame/beige/tan with some sort of designs within the concrete.

I think when all is said and done you will get pretty much exactly what you want.

Thunder- You should REALLY check out the third picture jonno posted. You'll like it.

They should have gone more creative with the bridges. Instead of plain concrete color, make them creame/beige/tan with some sort of designs within the concrete.

Since several started being tagged with graffiti a few months ago chance they may need it to look presentable by the time they are done.

I really do not know why these gangs feel the need to vandalize the bridges and walls. Really happy that no one attempted to vandalize the buffalo murals along the walls on I-235. I just hope the state keep the exact paint colors on record in case they need to paint over vandalism.

I see the paint in the 3rd picture and thought it was only to be on those walls. Hoping they will do it on the bridges, too.

They will paint the bridges too... I think they have already painted one, I'm thinking the Penn. Bridge but I can't remember exactly.

Yeah, I saw the road on the Penn Bridge when I attempted to cross as instructed by the GPS. I did not see the side of the bridge, though, or at least did not pay attention to such detail.

I do want to note how WHITE the road are. They should be using asphalt (black) instead. It looks pretty and perfect now, but wait until vehicles start driving all over making it look awful with oil drips, tire marks, and whatever. Not just the bridges, but the entire new I-40.

Cement is much more durable and better than asphalt. I would much rather have a road that last longer than one that looks cool but 6 months later (first winter freeze) there's huge pot holes all over the place... That's how all these patch jobs start. Then it for sure won't look cool at all!!

I do want to note how WHITE the road are. They should be using asphalt (black) instead. It looks pretty and perfect now, but wait until vehicles start driving all over making it look awful with oil drips, tire marks, and whatever. Not just the bridges, but the entire new I-40.

It eventually turns into that classic grayish color you expect roads to be and stays like that for the next 20 years before having to rehabilitate it. Asphalt only looks nice for the first 3-4 years then you have all the pot hole patches and tar lines where they fill in cracks to prevent future potholes. I actually prefer the concrete look maybe its a mental thing because I know concrete is better.

And with the price of oil, asphalt would probably add another $500M to the cost. Apparently that is the reason behind only getting 32 of the promised 57 miles of Trails in MAPS 3

Is it possible for concrete to be mixed with another color?

Definitely possible. If not mistaken that is exactly what they are doing with road elements of Project 180

Is it possible for concrete to be mixed with another color?

It certainly mixes with oklahoma dirt to make a reddish color, most of the time probably not on purpose.

Here's something no one may have though of.

Is the entire new highway going to be opened at once or will they open parts of it, like from Penn to Walker or Western before traffic is bought over from the old crosstown to the new one.

Here's something no one may have though of.

Is the entire new highway going to be opened at once or will they open parts of it, like from Penn to Walker or Western before traffic is bought over from the old crosstown to the new one.

It is my understanding that one direction of traffic, say going west, would stay on the old I-40, and they would open the other side to the new I-40. This would give half the drivers a sense of acclimation. Then, after a week or so, turn both directions on to make the transition easier for everyone.

The eastbound lanes will have to make the transition first. They can't make the physical connection for westbound lanes until after the eastound traffic has been moved. But to answer the question - yes the entire length will open all at once.

The westbound bridge at Agnew hasn't been built yet. They built up the dirt on the westbound approach, but haven't done anything else yet since the current I-40 is in the way. It will several months after eastbound is diverted before westbound is finally moved over. Unless, they narrow traffic to two lanes on the new eastbound bridge, but that seems unlikely being downtown Oklahoma City.

New video at 40forward.com

That video is labeled May 2011 but it's from several months ago, as you can see the postal facility just north of Union Station is still in tact and also there are no leaves on the trees.

Looks like it's from about 3 months ago.

And with the price of oil, asphalt would probably add another $500M to the cost. Apparently that is the reason behind only getting 32 of the promised 57 miles of Trails in MAPS 3

Wow, I didn't even have any idea of that.

Spartan, i have a hard time telling when you are being serious or sarcastic/joking...so...which is it this time? LOL

That video is labeled May 2011 but it's from several months ago, as you can see the postal facility just north of Union Station is still in tact and also there are no leaves on the trees.

Looks like it's from about 3 months ago.

The May video is exactly the same as the March video. Just shows how much effort ODOT puts into informing the public, they don't even notice when they post the same video.

Sid, it was in the Oklahoman not too long ago. Think it was part of the intitial timeline by the consultants...will try to locate it.

ON EDIT it was in the Journal Record (originally posted by Warreng88), much of the article was talking about the $30MM for moving the substation, but near the bottom of page 1:

Fencing over MAPS 3 details: Oklahoma City Council debates relocating utilities substation (Journal Record, 4/19/11) http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20110419/ai_n57338600/

The original plan of 50 miles of walking trails throughout the city may suffer one of the largest contractions because of economic factors. Mize said the rising cost of asphalt has reduced that target to 32 miles. The original plan of 70 miles for concrete sidewalks will see little change, down to 68 miles.

I suppose the cost of asphalt is the mayor's fault as well, eh?

Betts, don't be absurd.

Like I said, hopefully the price will come back down to pre-vote (pre-budget) levels or they can use an alternative (less expensive) material. However, if they thought the price of oil was going to remain constant when they came up with the budget, then that was a mistake. As I have suggested before. Estimate Revenue on the extreme low side and estimate expenses on the extreme high side. In this case, presume oil will be at least as high as its highest point (and do the same for whatever other materials are needed, labor etc). Factor in the highest rate of inflation and extrapulate (sp) over the expected term of the project.

Remember during the campaign the anti-folks said this wasn't the time to be doing projects like this with the economy being the way it is and the answer was this is the exact time to be doing it because construction prices etc will be cheaper. Suggesting we will get more bang for the buck, actually get more than what was promised? Has that happened with any of the long term MAPS projects or Bond Issues?

Betts, don't be absurd.

Like I said, hopefully the price will come back down to pre-vote (pre-budget) levels or they can use an alternative (less expensive) material. However, if they thought the price of oil was going to remain constant when they came up with the budget, then that was a mistake. As I have suggested before. Estimate Revenue on the extreme low side and estimate expenses on the extreme high side. In this case, presume oil will be at least as high as its highest point (and do the same for whatever other materials are needed, labor etc). Factor in the highest rate of inflation and extrapulate (sp) over the expected term of the project.

Remember during the campaign the anti-folks said this wasn't the time to be doing projects like this with the economy being the way it is and the answer was this is the exact time to be doing it because construction prices etc will be cheaper. Suggesting we will get more bang for the buck, actually get more than what was promised? Has that happened with any of the long term MAPS projects or Bond Issues?

Larry, are you suggesting that any of the previous MAPS projects could have been done for less money if they had been delayed to later years? I don't think anyone will buy that.

You lost me on that one, but if you have a case like the Trails and Asphalt issue, then yes, it is all a matter of timing. But even if the cost of oil/asphalt drops to the budget levels, that will only get us back up to the 57 miles and there will still be 60 miles of unfunded Trails left to go in the Master Plan (that we were told would be completed with MAPS 3).

But I will throw this out there. Then MAPS project manager (now City Manager), Jim Couch stated the following regarding the benefits of delaying projects.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19990224/ai_n10125647/
MAPS may end up with cash surplus (Journal Record, 2/24/99)

"We feel good that the numbers that we presented today are very solid." More important, the MAPS program has earned around $4.7 million of interest income, which will be funneled back into the program. "Most of the additional interest income is due to the delay of the downtown arena," he explained. "We had anticipated spending that money earlier to begin construction of the arena and since we did not, the money was invested and has now come back with a pretty good return for us."

Then by some miraculous event (according to the City's site), that $4.7MM grew by a factor of 11.5
http://www.okc.gov/maps/index.html

How We Paid For It
MAPS was funded by a temporary one-cent sales tax approved by city voters in December 1993, and later extended an additional six months. The tax expired on July 1, 1999. During the 66 months it was in effect, over $309 million was collected. In addition, the deposited tax revenue earned about $54 million in interest. That's being used for MAPS construction, too.

Still waiting for anyone to explain how that is possible. Have to remember that the cost over-runs were so substantial, by the time of the 6 month extension to "finish MAPS right" and have enough money to build the Arena, that $309MM wasn't just sitting in the bank earning interest. MAPS is a primarily pay-as-you-go funding, as the money is coming in one door, it is going out another. There were a handful of articles in the Oklahoman & Journal Record that stated because of the cost over runs, at least $17MM in bond debt (Civic Center & Library) was going to be incurred. Articles have suggested that with the extension, bonds might not be needed, but I haven't run across any articles written at the time that stated it as absolute fact (that no bond debt was issued). There were other projects were bond debt was going to be used (don't have the info handy as to the project/amount). The 6 month extension only raised $30MM, so it looks like it was just enough to cover the cost over runs of the other possible bond debt projects (no longer in the bank to earn interest). That is an amazing accomplishment if they were able to turn the $4.7MM in interest, and grow by another $49MM!

If you believe the $54MM figure the City still claims, that only covers about half of the cost over runs of $114.1MM due to various factors, But then that was achieved at the tail end of MAPS so if they got the same rate of return for the whole amount, it would have easily covered the rest of the cost over runs. Having the money work for you (just spending the interest) is an even better method than a primary pay-as-you-go (which is also preferred over long term bond debt).

Sounds like the City Manager is suggesting, just bank all of the tax collections, sit back and let the interest keep building exponentially and pay for everything with the interest. What do you think?

You lost me on that one, but if you have a case like the Trails and Asphalt issue, then yes, it is all a matter of timing. But even if the cost of oil/asphalt drops to the budget levels, that will only get us back up to the 57 miles and there will still be 60 miles of unfunded Trails left to go in the Master Plan (that we were told would be completed with MAPS 3).

But I will throw this out there. Then MAPS project manager (now City Manager), Jim Couch stated the following regarding the benefits of delaying projects.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19990224/ai_n10125647/
MAPS may end up with cash surplus (Journal Record, 2/24/99)


Then by some miraculous event (according to the City's site), that $4.7MM grew by a factor of 11.5
http://www.okc.gov/maps/index.html


Still waiting for anyone to explain how that is possible. Have to remember that the cost over-runs were so substantial, by the time of the 6 month extension to "finish MAPS right" and have enough money to build the Arena, that $309MM wasn't just sitting in the bank earning interest. MAPS is a primarily pay-as-you-go funding, as the money is coming in one door, it is going out another. The 6 month extension only raised $30MM. That is an amazing accomplishment if they were able to turn the $4.7MM in interest, and presuming they had the entire $30MM from the extension in the bank, that grew by another $49MM!

Sounds like the City Manager is suggesting, just bank all of the tax collections, sit back and let the interest keep building exponentially and pay for everything with the interest. What do you think?


I think it's time for you to just admit that you hate OKC, the Mayor and Council and that you will do anything and everything you can to show it

if we have more MAPS money, then we need to complete the Ford Center with all of the amenities that was originally promised!

[/B]


I think it's time for you to just admit that you hate OKC, the Mayor and Council and that you will do anything and everything you can to show it

So you can't explain it either?

So you can't explain it either?

have done so, as has others, can't explain or convince someone with blinders on.

I-40 updates..... trails funding..... have what to do with eachother?

I-40 updates..... trails funding..... have what to do with eachother?

Yes, we have about 3 other threads to talk about maps 3.

Ok, back to I-40. The beams for the Lincoln bridge are being put in place now.

have done so, as has others, can't explain or convince someone with blinders on.

And when did you do that? Most have missed, tell me again. As far as I know, Sid is the only only to offer a possible explanation. I don't know what the answer to it is, because when I asked Mr. Couch about it, there was no response at all.

I-40 updates..... trails funding..... have what to do with eachother?

One thing led to another. Someone was talking about using asphalt for I-40 and that led to the rising cost of it for the Trails etc etc etc.

Stopped and looked at the highway this afternoon from the Western Ave. bridge today. Looks great, can't wait to drive on it.

I can't wait until the ugly dirty Crosstown is a memory. I am suprised we have not had a Minneapolis style collapse here yet. At some point, they are going to have to divert large trucks to 240 or I-44.

It can make it another year.

It can make it another year.

That's the same thing the bridge safety inspectors in Minnesota said!!!

I'll trust experts who get it wrong every now and then any day, instead of the internet armchair quarterbacks.

I'll trust myself, cause neither the internet armchair quarterbacks, nor the experts are gonna pay for a tire blowout from concrete chunks that have fallen out or pay for my car crashing through to the ground due to a section falling down to the ground with me on it. I barely use the darn thing. Hazard to my health, lol.

The Minnesota bridge was a completely different beast than the I-40 bridge. There was almost zero redundancy which means one or two structural components failing caused a cascade collapse.

Besides, engineers have never been that concerned about the superstructure of the I-40 bridge. It has always been the road deck that caused all the issues. Someone getting into a serious accident because of a hole in the bridge would be bad though. Not sure how likely a section of deck big enough for a car is. A lot of word play can be used by ODOT engineers in defining "collapse". Will the whole bridge collapse: no. Will a section of deck fall through: Maybe.

Both the I-35W bridge in Minnesota and the I-40 crosstown bridge were/are considered fracture critical. To be considered fracture critical a bridge has to have components that meet 3 main criteria. The members have to be steel, they have to be in tension and they must lack load path redundancy and the failure of one of these members would result in a partial or full collapse of the structure. The Minnesota bridge was a deck truss with two main load paths (the trusses themselves). In order to have acceptable redundancy you must have 3 or more load paths. Truss bridges aren't inherently unsafe, but the design calls for a special fracture critical bridge inspection (conducted every two years or less) which costs a LOT more than a normal safety inspection. This adds to the maintenance cost over the life of the span. This is also one of many reason's why there aren't as many trusses being built today as in the past.

The crosstown also has fracture critical bridge components. Obviously it isn't a truss bridge but it has members that meet the criteria, mainly steel pier beams and steel hangers under some expansion joints. The superstructure has its issues that require monitoring, but I do agree it's the deck that causes the most headaches for the traveling public.

We can hold our collective breath and hope (if really concerned, don't drive it) that it will last until the new one is open. That said, even with all of the assurances from ODoT that it is perfectly safe, they did issue a warning a while back (saying that any further delays could become case for "concern"). Will try to find it and post.

ON EDIT (from Wikipedia)

ODOT Director Gary Ridley said the current I-40 will "absolutely" survive through 2012, the new completion target date for the realignment, adding, "If we felt there was anything wrong that would cause us concern, we would close it, and we wouldn't think twice about it."[13] However, in a filing with STB, Ridley urged a quick ruling because "new serious issues including cracks in fracture critical members are constantly being discovered and repaired. The condition and obsolescence of the existing bridges constitutes serious concern for the Department."[14]

Fyi, the exit ramp from I-235 N to I-40 W has been dramatically shorten. It looks like its closed, but its still open. You have to take a hard left now.

The world really is coming to an end next year. I-40 is on schedule to open a few months early(early from last schedule revision anyway).


The new, four-mile Crosstown Expressway, the most expensive road project in state history, is projected to open next summer, a few months ahead of schedule.

Read more: http://newsok.com/new-crosstown-expressway-is-on-fast-track-in-oklahoma-city/article/3580638?custom_click=lead_story_title