I hope the state hiway dept. is smart and either chooses a paint color for the retaining walls or treats them with something for the inevitable grafitti tagging that will happen.

In other areas, yes you'll be able to see trains from your car and vice versa. They will be on the North side of the highway. Is it I-44 in Tulsa where the train tracks are in the median?

There is a stretch like that. I believe it's OK-51/US-64 southeast of downtown (aka Broken Arrow Expressway).

I hope the state hiway dept. is smart and either chooses a paint color for the retaining walls or treats them with something for the inevitable grafitti tagging that will happen.

Some sound and retaining walls in the OKC area have been treated with non-graffiti coatings such as the buffalo at I-235 and 36th St. I'm not sure how intricate the I-40 retaining walls will be but if they're close to being that decorative I would imagine they'll be treated as well. It's unfortunate this treatment is necessary since it isn't particulary cheap.

My favorite stretch of below-grade freeway is US 75 north of downtown Dallas. It's a great example of what happens when you don't settle for plain, boring, straight concrete walls.

I remember seeing in the renderings of the highway that the retaining walls would have designs in them, much like the buffalo on 36th and I-235.

I sent an email to John Bowman of ODOT and he answered a few questions for me. My questions were pertaining to Robinson and Walker and if they would have at grade crossings with the Union Pacific railroad or would they go over the railroad & when would construction of the westbound bridge over Agnew begin. The resulting is his reply:

"Good to hear from you again. Hope you like the progress as promised so far. Robinson and Walker will both go over the new alignment of the interstate and the UPRR rail line. They will tie down at 7th on the north and 10th on the south and will be up in the air and give a wonderful viewshed of the city. The SkyDance Bridge will be located just west of Robinson. As for Agnew, we will build the north bridge under workpackage 3.4. It is our intent that Agnew stay open and have all exits and entrances operational except for occasional short duration closures (hopefully less than a day)."

The way I understand this is that the bridges for Robinson & Walker--if providing 30 feet of clearance over the UP rail line--will be 40 or 50 feet over the new highway, unless there is a gradual downward slope toward 10th Street on the south. If it's straight then this whole section is going to remind me of the chase scene in 'Matrix Reloaded'...deep walls with really high bridges, lol.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r170/OkStateBBall78/MatrixReloaded1Custom_1245880983.jpg

Does anyone else look at the renderings and art in the designs for everything related to the new I-40 and Core to Shore and laugh themselves silly at all the green grass, tall trees, and crystal clear blue water shown all over downtown?
I'm happy the project is moving forward, I just think the designers got confused and thought we were Miami, Houston, or San Diego. The only grey I see in those renderings is the metal on the buildings. The artist must have only visited here in the peak of Spring and never taken a glance at the true color of the river.

Some sound and retaining walls in the OKC area have been treated with non-graffiti coatings such as the buffalo at I-235 and 36th St. I'm not sure how intricate the I-40 retaining walls will be but if they're close to being that decorative I would imagine they'll be treated as well. It's unfortunate this treatment is necessary since it isn't particulary cheap.

The next best thing is to do what they did to the I-25 South project in denver and paint the retaining walls to begin with. Then, when the walls do get tagged, they can cover with a known shade and not splotch it with multi-colored squares of whatever paint they had in the truck.

they could hook up the surrounding areas of the retaining walls w/ several hundred volts of electricity... should end the tagging ;).

Then, when the walls do get tagged, they can cover with a known shade and not splotch it with multi-colored squares of whatever paint they had in the truck.

You'd think that would work but this approach has its own problems. Due to fading of the paint and slight differences in lots/sublots produced by the manufacturer for the exact same color/shade of paint, you can come back with the "same" paint color but it won't match what was placed before. The end result can be the multi-colored squares you mentioned earlier. You're also assuming the manufacturer will continue to make that color of paint which isn't always the case either. All that being said, yes there are many instances where graffiti was addressed with "whatever they had in the truck".

Some pics of the overpass at Agnew over the crosstown & its textured retaining walls. Then a more close shot of the textured wall by wheeler park. Images courtesy of the Forward I-40 website in which they have a number of construction pics in their gallery.

40 Forward: Oklahoma's I-40 Crosstown Expressway (http://www.40forward.com/)

they could hook up the surrounding areas of the retaining walls w/ several hundred volts of electricity... should end the tagging ;).

Interesting idea...similar the the Sheriff's new substation out at the Zoo...could eliminate the over crowding, already have the cages and can throw the more difficult prisoners in the with the Lions (only kidding)

seems to be A LOT of progress around I-40 between Penn and May.... but also very scary driving next to 18-wheelers thru all that!

Here goes the old underpasses on either side of Union Station:

Photo Gallery (http://www.40forward.com/gallery/default.asp?pid=0&page_size=-1&sort_filter=0&sort_order=descending)

Courtesy of 40forward.com

The shoofly for the UPRR mainline is going to be pretty interesting. I guess they are just going to do one street at a time (Robinson then Walker)...

So sad they destroyed the historic looking Robinson underpass. One of my favorite vantage points of all OKC and one of the few remaining pieces of the past.

The S. Western Bridge is now OPEN.....YEA.......

I'm glad those underpasses are gone.

They were terrifying to walk through. And not to mention disgusting. They needed to go. I truly believe there was no hope for them.

What??? You do realize they were excellent architecture don't you architecture student? They can powerwash things as well as add lighting and your problems are solved.

I'm glad those underpasses are gone.

They were terrifying to walk through. And not to mention disgusting. They needed to go. I truly believe there was no hope for them.

No hope for them? Even if they wanted to save them they couldn't. With the railroad gone and a new depressed freeway going through what were they going to go under?

I am going to address both views, since there was no option for salvaging the bridge, due to its relevance dissapearing due to the new recessed cross town, it really isn't an issue.

That said, what I am sad about, is that the bridge was a great example of infrastructure that paid attention to the details and quality that it added to the area. There is no denying that it was a unique design and much of its fear and concern that a person felt at walking underneath it has everybit to do with the neighborhood it was a part of and the fact that there was not adequate lighting and so it felt dangerous.

I was just thinking what a great placemaking bridge it could have been with a good cleanup and some great lighting as a way to celebrate the bridge and bring attention to an all too often overlooked treasure.

Alas not to be, however it is with that eye that we need to do our darndest to evaluate the few remaining structures such as this around the city that can be saved so that we are not left with out a sense of history. The techniques used like that are not done very often and certainly not in the same way anymore and icons such as this are elements that contribute significantly to the urban fabric that make each area of town seem unique and create local landmarks. For that reason I mourn its demise, but understand in this case why salvaging is not possible.

I am going to address both views, since there was no option for salvaging the bridge, due to its relevance dissapearing due to the new recessed cross town, it really isn't an issue.

That said, what I am sad about, is that the bridge was a great example of infrastructure that paid attention to the details and quality that it added to the area. There is no denying that it was a unique design and much of its fear and concern that a person felt at walking underneath it has everybit to do with the neighborhood it was a part of and the fact that there was not adequate lighting and so it felt dangerous.

I was just thinking what a great placemaking bridge it could have been with a good cleanup and some great lighting as a way to celebrate the bridge and bring attention to an all too often overlooked treasure.

Alas not to be, however it is with that eye that we need to do our darndest to evaluate the few remaining structures such as this around the city that can be saved so that we are not left with out a sense of history. The techniques used like that are not done very often and certainly not in the same way anymore and icons such as this are elements that contribute significantly to the urban fabric that make each area of town seem unique and create local landmarks. For that reason I mourn its demise, but understand in this case why salvaging is not possible.

Pretty good summation.

I drove the newly opened Western Avenue bridge and got a few pictures:

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/OKCDrummer77/WesternAve1.jpg

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/OKCDrummer77/WesternAve2.jpg

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/OKCDrummer77/WesternAve3.jpg

http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff342/OKCDrummer77/WesternAve4.jpg

I am just wondering what they are going to do with the Reno side of the Penn Avenue Bridge.

That will be one steep slope if it is left the way it is now.

I am just wondering what they are going to do with the Reno side of the Penn Avenue Bridge.

That will be one steep slope if it is left the way it is now.

They have to move the tracks right in close where the north wall is (like it is at the Western Bridge). From this point it will be a downhill slope to Reno which I imagine will be steep and a road I wouldn't want to mess with during future ice storms.

Looks nice!

In relevance to the underpasses. Yes they were "pretty", yes they were "historic". But powerwashing and adding lights isn't going to help anything if they return to their previous condition within a couple of months. Until that area is gentrified, which won't be for years, those underpasses would have had no hope. Crosstown or not. This is what I meant. It's not that I ever wanted them gone necessarily, but they can't be fixed until that area is. And as I recall, Core to Shore is pretty long-term. It would have been awhile.

Great pics of the new bridge OKCDrummer.....Thx.

Any bets on how long it'll be before it gets tagged?

Photo Gallery (http://www.40forward.com/gallery/default.asp?pid=0&page_size=-1&sort_filter=0&sort_order=descending)

Courtesy of 40forward.com

I love the architectural detail on the bridges, especially the supports. FINALLY we do something more than just plain flat concrete! Not as much of a fan of the faux-stone texture on the retaining walls.

Great pics of the new bridge OKCDrummer.....Thx.

Any bets on how long it'll be before it gets tagged?

Actually, was tagged before it ever opened. I think it was that bridge anyway. I remember Doug posted some images a while back.

Sure looked like some not so graceful clean-up work was visible in those photos as well.

Actually, was tagged before it ever opened. I think it was that bridge anyway. I remember Doug posted some images a while back.

Sure looked like some not so graceful clean-up work was visible in those photos as well.

No, that was the Pennsylvania St. Bridge. The Western route was just a road back when that tagging happened...

Thanks for clarifying that.

Pretty sure it's been tagged multiple times at numerous spots.

Photos taken today (3/5/10) from the new Western Ave. bridge over the new I-40 alignment and new RR tracks.

Looking southeast toward Western Ave. over the future I-40 alignment while standing on what will be an on-ramp
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1844/phpjkt6c3am.jpg

Looking northeast from the other side of the on-ramp at a second bridge over the relocated railroad tracks. Note the concrete details that only trains will see.
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1619/phpjltmr7am.jpg

Looking west toward Exchange Ave. and Penn
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1931/phpfe62gjam.jpg

Skyline shot from the sidewalk on the Western Ave. bridge. From this angle I think Devon's tower will fill the gap quite nicely.
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/9579/phpf7fqlaam.jpg

Thanks jonno!

Great to see the progress.

Two things I noticed.

In the second pic, it looks like they left enough room for expansion of either a second rail line for UP or perhaps (for Tom Elmore and many more) a path dedicated for future commuter rail.

In that last pic. Just to the right of the crane is where the tower will sit. It def takes care of the gap between FNC and Chase!

I went and looked at the excavations behind Union Station today and there is water there. I don't know if that's water that seeped in or if it is left over from snow melt, and there is a lot of water on the streets around the new boathouses. But, if that's ground water, then that might be the problem metro is talking about.

Although it hasn't been formally announced yet, the old logos of Rock Island & Frisco on the Robinson underpass have been/are being salvaged and will be a permanent exhibit at the Oklahoma City Railway. We'll have more about this later, but it's fair that you know this now. One of the logos is shown in a couple of pics I took in 2007 (the Frisco logo is covered by the clearance sign):

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/trains/trains_8_11_07_12.jpg

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/trains/trains_8_11_07_11.jpg

Information about and pics of the Oklahoma Railway Museum are here: Doug Dawgz Blog: Okc Trains Part 2 (http://dougdawg.blogspot.com/2007/08/okc-trains-part-2.html#museum)

Thank you for that.

Thank you for that.

Aye-up

Thanks Doug.

Thanks Doug. I was to the point where I was going to dig through the rubble and try to find them myself.

Are there any aerial pictures? The ground shots look good but I would like to see a overhead image to get a feel of the progress.

According to ODOT the surfacing work is to begin this month. I haven't been by to see the progress for about a month, so does anyone know if this is likely to remain on schedule?

According to ODOT the surfacing work is to begin this month. I haven't been by to see the progress for about a month, so does anyone know if this is likely to remain on schedule?

It's on schedule. The cement pouring will be continuous, not incremental. Once they start pouring cement, they are going to keep going until the whole thing is done. It's pretty remarkable that they could stay on schedule given our cruel winter. The spring is supposed to be pretty wet, so we'll see what happens next.

According to ODOT the surfacing work is to begin this month. I haven't been by to see the progress for about a month, so does anyone know if this is likely to remain on schedule?

May be in doubt now...

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/budget-cuts-could-hamper-oklahoma-transportation-projects/article/3453440?custom_click=headlines_widget)

Budget cuts could hamper Oklahoma transportation projects (Oklahoman, 4/13/10)


Funding cuts could push back the completion date on major projects such as Oklahoma City’s Interstate 40 Crosstown realignment and improvements to Interstate 244 in Tulsa by at least a year, Ridley said.

May be in doubt now...

NewsOK (http://www.newsok.com/budget-cuts-could-hamper-oklahoma-transportation-projects/article/3453440?custom_click=headlines_widget)

Budget cuts could hamper Oklahoma transportation projects (Oklahoman, 4/13/10)

I'd hate to see that. The current I-40 isn't going to last much longer. It is extremely dangerous right now...

And this is why I keep saying we need to put in that 5cent gas tax. 5 cents a gallon is nothing per fill-up and would give ODOT so much more money to help projects along. But us short-sighted Oklahomans see a tax and automatically put the breaks on and say no...whether it helps us or not.

And this is why I keep saying we need to put in that 5cent gas tax. 5 cents a gallon is nothing per fill-up and would give ODOT so much more money to help projects along. But us short-sighted Oklahomans see a tax and automatically put the breaks on and say no...whether it helps us or not.

I'm with you. I voted in favor of the nickel increase in 2004. Unfortunately, it failed.

So everyone can stop complaining about the roads.

Is that 5 cent gas tax collected in OK and stays in OK or does it go to the feds first?

Is that 5 cent gas tax collected in OK and stays in OK or does it go to the feds first?

Since it is state gas tax it stays in OK. Federal gas tax is collected seperately.

The thing is, Oklahoma doesn't have a revenue problem. It has a spending priority problem - just like every other government.

http://oklahoma.watchdog.org/522/spending-leaves-oklahoma-broke-as-revenue-drops/


Money, Smith said, “kept rolling in” and rather than socking it away, “they just grew programs. That’s why the budget went up 95 percent from 2004 to 2009. They kept passing and approving programs. Teacher raises, early childhood education and more.”

Smith also points to U.S. Census data that show how there has been a 5.6 percent increase in the state’s population.

“As the revenue increased, the legislature had three alternatives – increase the Rainy Day Fund, put more money back for tough times and watch for wasteful spending, or increase programs, which is what they chose to do,” Smith said.

“Now, as revenues decrease, we’re faced with this tremendous shortfall,” Smith said. “If we’d put more money in Rainy Day Fund, and we didn’t start all these other programs, we wouldn’t be in all this trouble.”

“They expanded it to every program you can think of,” Smith said. “And as income grew for the state, expenditures per person exploded.”

Since it is state gas tax it stays in OK. Federal gas tax is collected seperately.

I was living out of state when that vote took place, but if the money stayed 100% in OK I would probably be in favor of it. From looking at the state-by-state comparisons in gas taxes, it looks like 2-3 cents/gallon would do no more than even us up with neighboring states except Missouri. You just don't want to give truckers and travelors the excuse to use Kansas or Texas hiways instead of ours to avoid higher gas taxes.

Yeah, I usually base my travel plans on state gas taxes.:poke:

You might not but trucking companies do. Look beyond your own nose.

I guess anything is possible, but the minimal tax that we're talking about only increases the cost of going completely across the state by $2-3. That's assuming their gas tanks are empty when they reach the border and they buy all of their gas in Oklahoma.

To me, a minor tax increase would be viewed far less negatively than the poor infrastructure that they currently have to use.

Yeah, I usually base my travel plans on state gas taxes.:poke:

I do also. I used to drive between Florida and Georgia every week and I never bought gas in Florida. I would buy it just before leaving Georgia or right after leaving Florida. When I was going to visit in the laws in Kentucky I would also stop and fill-up in Tennessee - coming and going.

I guess I'm just different that way. If I couldn't afford an extra $2-3 dollars to make sure that the bridges didn't fall down, I'd probably just stay home and save my pennies.

I guess I'm just different that way. If I couldn't afford an extra $2-3 dollars to make sure that the bridges didn't fall down, I'd probably just stay home and save my pennies.

What makes you think an extra $2 or $3 would keep the bridges from falling down? The state doesn't have a revenue problem - they have a spending priority problem.

I guess I just figure that an extra 2-3 cent gas tax designated for infrastructure maintenance and improvement couldn't hurt.

Money, Smith said, “kept rolling in” ... “they just grew programs ...They kept passing and approving programs. Teacher raises, early childhood education and more.”

Kerry, Where do you want to see spending reductions made? Do you agree with Mr. Smith from the article you quoted where he talks about the money we wasted on teacher raises and early childhood education?

Money, Smith said, “kept rolling in” ... “they just grew programs ...They kept passing and approving programs. Teacher raises, early childhood education and more.”

Kerry, Where do you want to see spending reductions made? Do you agree with Mr. Smith from the article you quoted where he talks about the money we wasted on teacher raises and early childhood education?

Heck, multiple studies have shown early childhood education has NO lasting effect on student achievement, so I'd cut that right away and divert all that funding to transportation. That'll never happen, though, because people will grasp onto the silly idea that you're hurting children.