what would be some good points to address in said e-mail?

I will do it, but I want Andrew Rice and Al McAffrey to know more than that I like Fat Tire.

good question Justin, and ditto.

Let's get everyone involved on this one. I have previously thought about trying to spearhead a legislative movement personally on this, but I feel the political inertia would be difficult to overcome, and honestly- I'm not sure how to begin... Mid, mmm, Steve, Pete- let's figure out all the good, coherent, and potent arguments to make a change? Here's what I sent:

Senator Johnson and Representative Pittman-

My name is Matthew Allen and I am a constituent of both of yours residing at 724 NW 54th St. I am writing today to encourage each of you to please consider drafting and presenting a bill for consideration of our lawmakers regarding current alcoholic beverage laws. At present, my understanding is that Oklahoma currently does not allow the retail sale of refrigerated high-point beverages. I request that you work to change this law. I am a 28 year old attorney living here in Oklahoma City. I graduated from the Oklahoma School of Science and Mathematics, and received my BA and JD from the University of Oklahoma. I consider myself and people like me to be the thriving heartbeat of our fair city, and many, many others share my sentiments. Please consider my thoughts and I would welcome a response from each of you. Allow me to express the following points:

- This is a restriction on commerce in Oklahoma, as many breweries refuse to ship their product unrefrigerated to Oklahoma based on quality control. (E.g.- the New Belgium Brewery of Ft. Collins, Colorado). This serves to diminish the variety of choices the Oklahoma consumer has, and keeps Oklahoma a closed marketplace to these breweries. For instance, look at the map provided by this link: New Belgium | Follow your folly! (http://www.newbelgium.com/faq)

- This restriction also discourages new and different retail stores (e.g.- Whole Foods) from opening stores in Oklahoma, as they offer for retail sale many varieties of high-point beers at, presumably, a nice profit margin. Taking this option away from those retailers chills (pun intended) the likelihood of them establishing a presence in Oklahoma, which in turn keeps new developments from occurring, prevents capital investment which may otherwise occur, and again diminishes the amount of choice the Oklahoma consumer has.

- This restriction encourages the stereotype that Oklahoma is a backward and behind-the-times state. I cannot enumerate the number of times I've had to explain our archaic laws to out-of-staters with embarrassment, and can offer no justification for such laws.

- This resonates with me the most: I cannot fathom one good, logical, rational reason why things are this way in Oklahoma. I do not understand why things would need to remain this way.

Thank you for your consideration.

Respectfully,
Matthew J. Allen, Esq.

OKC, OK



That was a quick draft earlier today. Feel free to use the talking points, criticize, or offer more points. Let's put something together here!

Good luck with that. We had a thread a year or so ago and there was a liquor store owner in there addressing all the roadblocks (like himself) in the way of cold liquor store beer and/or getting rid of that stupid 3.2 (that isn't really 3.2 BTW) stuff in grocery stores.

The hurdles are quite substantial. You'll be up against people that actually have lobbyists apparently.

. . . This resonates with me the most: I cannot fathom one good, logical, rational reason why things are this way in Oklahoma. I do not understand why things would need to remain this way.

Thank you for your consideration.

Respectfully,
Matthew J. Allen, Esq.

OKC, OK



That was a quick draft earlier today. Feel free to use the talking points, criticize, or offer more points. Let's put something together here!


All good points Matt. I think anyone interested in communicating to their legislator could look to your draft for pointers. Beyond emailing, I would be glad to arrange a sit down with Andrew Rice and Al McAffrey. I think the usual process is to attempt getting an intrim study going. I know that there has been a lot of heavy hitting opposition to this kind of effort in the past. I have a couple of friends that lobby, and I'll get their input also.

Michael

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

Oklahoma isn't the only state dealing with 3.2 beer and a liquor store lobby, Fat Tire's home state is going through some of it as well....


Denver Business Journal - Colorado lawmakers kill full-strength beer bill (http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/stories/2009/03/09/daily55.html)
Thursday, March 12, 2009, 8:03am MDT | Modified: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 8:06am

The battle in the Colorado Legislature over allowing grocery and convenience stores to sell full-strength beer ended late Wednesday when the measure was killed, but a more comprehensive fight over Colorado liquor-sales law has only just begun.

After more than eight hours of testimony and discussion, the House Business Affairs and Labor Committee killed House Bill 1192, which would have ended the post-Prohibition practice of allowing those two kinds of stores to sell only reduced-strength beer.

Pueblo West Democratic Rep. Buffie McFadyen’s measure died by a 7-4 vote in which both backers and opponents crossed party lines.

While liquor stores are allowed to sell beer of any strength, grocery and convenience stores can’t sell any beer bigger than 3.2 percent alcohol by volume, a lower-alcohol limit that remains in place in just five states.

The biggest volume of lower-strength sales traditionally occurred when liquor stores were closed on Sundays, but once the legislature repealed the Sunday liquor-store ban last year, grocery and convenience stores saw their littler beer sales plummet.

Those owners testified Wednesday that 3.2 percent beer sales have dropped off anywhere from 8 percent to 80 percent since the new law came into place, depending on the location of the store. Several spoke of having to lay off workers to make up for declining revenues.

Bill Gallagher, who owns three retail stores and services more than 90 others with his company, Offen Petroleum, noted independent convenience stores took a significant hit in 2007 when the Legislature allowed big gas chains to sell their product below cost.

Beer is the second-largest non-gas product sold at those stores now, and requiring it to be an antiquated, low-strength product was hurting local small businessmen who already were living on the margins, he said.

“Last year’s bill was a dramatic hit to small businesses in Colorado,” said Rep. David Balmer, a Centennial Republican who was one of HB1192’s biggest supporters. “I look upon this bill as a bill help small businesspeople in Colorado.”

But opposition to the measure came from many angles.

Consultant Tom Binnings of Summit Economics in Colorado Springs estimated that if chain grocery stores are allowed to peel customers away by selling full-strength beer, 50 percent of the state’s 1,672 independent liquor stores could close within five years.

Those stores, most of which have five or less employees, would lose at least 30 percent of their sales, sacking the state with a loss of another 10,000 jobs, he said.

If liquor stores go under, so too could many of Colorado’s more than 100 craft breweries, which flourish in an environment where locally owned businesses rather than out-of-state grocery stores decide what beverages to sell, several brewers said.

The few small breweries that make 3.2 percent beer can’t get onto the Bud- and Coors-filled shelves of convenience stores now, and declining shelf space would suffocate their market, said Jack Sosebee, co-owner of Denver’s Del Norte Brewing Company.

“House Bill 1192 is an attack on small businesses, employment and a great Colorado tradition,” Sosebee testified.

Questions also arose about 18-year-olds being allowed to sell full-strength beer in convenience stores, whether the greater availability of the product could create public safety problems and whether grocery stores would ask next to sell wine and spirits.

In the end, several legislators said that while they agree that the state’s liquor-sales laws need reform, they felt it should come in comprehensive fashion, not just in a piecemeal bill that benefits grocery and convenience stores.

“I think that we opened the can of worms last year, unfortunately, and I think we’re going to be back visiting this again,” said Rep. Sara Gagliardi, D-Arvada.

But before the legislature gets a crack at comprehensive reform, proponents of HB 1192 may push some sort of similar measure to the ballot next year.

Sean Duffy, who had headed the coalition of bill backers, noted that they collected roughly 66,000 petition signatures from supporters who want the convenience of buying alcohol in grocery and convenience stores.

He will talk now with group leaders about a statutory change or constitutional amendment that could look at beer, wine and spirits sales in an expanded area, he said after the hearing. The measure will encompass more than just 3.2 percent beer, he assured.

“That’s an option I think folks will start looking at,” he said of a looming ballot measure.

McFadyen had argued to the committee that it would be much safer for the legislators to make such changes than to allow interest groups to bring them to the ballot.

The hearing was as packed as any the Legislature has held this year. An overflow crowd numbering more than 500 people spilled out of the Old Supreme Court Chambers in the Capitol and into two separate committee rooms that were equipped with speakers so that people could gather in there and listen to the hearing.

It also brought out a range of emotions. Testifiers initially wore “vote yes” and “vote no” stickers but were made to take them off, per House rules, by sergeants.

Opponents sported American flag stickers to plead their case; when one apparent proponent turned the flag upside down on his chest, he also was made to remove the political statement.

All good points Matt. I think anyone interested in communicating to their legislator could look to your draft for pointers. Beyond emailing, I would be glad to arrange a sit down with Andrew Rice and Al McAffrey. I think the usual process is to attempt getting an intrim study going. I know that there has been a lot of heavy hitting opposition to this kind of effort in the past. I have a couple of friends that lobby, and I'll get their input also.

Michael

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

Never heard a thing.

All good points Matt. I think anyone interested in communicating to their legislator could look to your draft for pointers. Beyond emailing, I would be glad to arrange a sit down with Andrew Rice and Al McAffrey. I think the usual process is to attempt getting an intrim study going. I know that there has been a lot of heavy hitting opposition to this kind of effort in the past. I have a couple of friends that lobby, and I'll get their input also.

Michael

Pray For World Peace . . . pass it on

What 'ins' do you think could be had with the Republican party? Nothing will get done this year as I think the deadline for new legislation has come and gone.

A sit down with Rice and McAffrey would be great, but I'm very worried that those two, as effective as they can be, would be the wrong people to sponsor this sort of legislation.

Looking over the list of House standing committees, I'm guessing, but I would think that any amendments to Oklahoma's alcohol rules would be done by the Public Health Committee. Here's a list of members:


Rep. Trebilcock, John - Chair
Rep. Derby, David - Vice Chair
Representative Billy, Lisa J.
Representative Cannaday, Ed
Representative Denney, Lee
Representative Glenn, Larry
Representative Hamilton, Rebecca
Representative Harrison, Terry
Representative Hilliard, Wes
Representative Holland, Corey
Representative Joyner, Charlie
Representative Kiesel, Ryan
Representative McDaniel, Jeannie
Representative Nelson, Jason
Representative Ownbey, Pat
Representative Peters, Ron
Representative Peterson, Pam
Representative Ritze, Mike
Representative Schwartz, Colby
Representative Scott, Seneca
Representative Terrill, Randy

If you're looking for anything to happen, I think you need a friendly Republican ear to talk to. Out of that list, I don't see a single one which I know to be friendly to this sort of issue, but I'm far from being an authority on the issue.

I think your best bet is an end-around if it's feasible. I'd have to look at some statutes (and I may actually get around to that someday) and at the ABLE Administrative Code, here's the link:

http://www.ok.gov/able/documents/AlcoholicBeverageAdministrativeCode%20(includes%20 Charity%20games).pdf

I think though -- perhaps -- that the best play here would be to directly lobby ABLE for these changes, or to lobby them through elected officials like Rice and McAffrey.

The Administrative Code does set out some requirements for parties seeking rule changes (which is what's being sought here) and it's ABLE, not really the legislature where all the power lies.

ABLE is made up of seven commissioners appointed by the Governor upon advice and consent of the State Senate. My guess is that those commissioners are either term limited legislators (those guys are like cockroaches) or they're people who have had some sort of role in the liquor industry.

Anyhow, what we're after here is a rule change. Some serious pressure would probably have to be brought to bear, and I'm just not sure how realistic it is to think that a few 'concerned citizens' could successfully petition for and receive a favorable rulemaking in this area. I'm sure it's been tried before, so there has to be some sort of strategy.

I'd be happy to meet with anyone (over a pint of beer of course) to discuss this.

Also, FWIW, I'll probably be up at the capitol on the 17th for the 'festivities' planned by the Bar Association.

My apologies for the disorganized/stream of consciousness aspect of this post...

Thanks for doing the hard work on that issue, Mid.

Keep up the good work. I'd gladly be the first to buy you a case of Fat Tire if you were able to get our crappy liquor laws changed so that we could buy it in-state (although I prefer the 1554). Apparently, there are also some people working on this at: Oklahomans For Modern Laws (http://www.oklahomansformodernlaws.com)

I usually pick up my NBBC at the Kroger on Mockingbird in Dallas, or there is a nice little convenience store in Gainesville if you want to pick some up on the way home.

As for the politics? How good is a business model if it depends on a state mandated monopoly. In other words, the liquor store racket here in Oklahoma.

Does anyone know the maximum number of cases you can bring over the border without breaking the "bootlegging" rule?

We just made a run down to WF for some, and bought a ton, and the cashier didn't say anything, just "you guys must be from Oklahoma."

Does anyone know the maximum number of cases you can bring over the border without breaking the "bootlegging" rule?

We just made a run down to WF for some, and bought a ton, and the cashier didn't say anything, just "you guys must be from Oklahoma."

1 Liter

37 OS 537(A)(4)

Good to know that I'm a bootlegger. :D

Good to know that I'm a bootlegger. :D

:Smiley051

1 liter??? That is absolutely ridiculous!!

But that does not make me a "Bootlegger's Boy"! ;)

1 liter 37 os 537(a)(4)

i dunno about that... (4) uses the pesky word 'import' and i'm not so sure that the average joe with a trunk-full of hooch for his own personal use is technically 'importing' anything.

check out §37-537 (a) (6)... maybe i'm wrong, but it sounds like a person can 'transport' more than one liter into the state as long as they've got the original receipt.

-M

There is an article in this weeks Gazette, about liqour laws, and the "Elusive 6-Pack" of Fat Tire.

I looked online and couldn't find the article, but just find a Gazette.

This thread was started by "The Old Downtown Guy". Has anyone heard anything about him lately?

These guys ship into Oklahoma:

Blacksburg VA Wine Cellar Store Virginia Beer Sales (http://www.vintagecellar.com/)

I wish that place had Fat Tire. Thanks for that link though!

they're super nice. Tell them I sent ya if you use them. I get Yuengling from them.