Is there not one? I had thought that financing was obtained again and the original scope of work would be continued. Is that not the case? If it is then here is the site plan according to their website. If not, then someone enlighten me.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4131/5062385067_ea6babeda6_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41175036@N03/5062385067/)[/url][url=http://www.flickr.com/people/41175036@N03/] (http://www.flickr.com/photos/41175036@N03/5062385067/)

They would be getting close to the end of Phase 1 now.

They stopped Phase I for almost a year, then went forward to at least finish some of it. Phase I was to be 47 units and 32 have been finally finished.

But, I'm very sure the current developer (if they are still even involved) will not be doing anything more. The balance of the land is still owned by OCURA.

So the financing they had obtained to move forward was just to complete the units that had already been started? I had assumed it was for the completion of the project as a whole. A bit late to the game, but that bums me out.

I'm absolutely sure it was only to finish the units that had been started.

In fact, OCURA now owns some of the finished units, which tells me Canfield's group that started this development is now out of it other than holding title to some of the unsold homes.

I tried to find an appropriate thread in which to post this, but couldn't. So new thread.

After a two-year drought in Oklahoma City's downtown housing market, developer Grant Humphreys is once again celebrating closings with buyers.

STEVE LACKMEYER, BUSINESS WRITER

Developer 'stays the course' with housing plans

With a master plan for 157 for-sale residences, The Hill was the most ambitious downtown housing development when it was launched, and it was hit hard by the national recession.
Construction halted just as the first units were preparing to sell. But in recent weeks construction workers have returned to NE 2 and Russell Perry Avenue, and developer Bill Canfield reports sales are picking up. To date seven of the townhomes have sold and Canfield said he is seeing an increase in buyer interest. Another 14 units are finished and three more are set to be ready for sale within the next six weeks. "Overall, we are glad to have sold seven urban homes in this sluggish economy,” Canfield said. "As is the case with other residential developments downtown, the economy severely impacted our financing and time lines.”

Canfield believes patience is the best course ahead. He also believes he and fellow developers were "way too ambitious” with their original plans. "We are staying the course because we do believe the market for upscale urban homes such as what we offer at The Hill will rebound in due time,” Canfield said. "Our signature development is exactly what we need downtown for the influx of executives to companies such as Devon and SandRidge over the next many years.”

But such closings are requiring a variety of strategies from Humphreys and other developers looking to thaw a market hurt not by local dynamics but by the national recession.

Read more: http://www.newsok.com/developers-switch-tactics-see-thaw-in-downtown-okc-housing-sales/article/3506243?custom_click=lead_story_title#ixzz12utygX9 B

The 2 condos available for sale near me in Midtown, whcih have sat on the market for months now with no activity, have had a couple of lookey loos in the past few days. I think the main issue is that banks are so skittish on lending money to condos. As far as my condo building is concerned its dangerously close to the 50% ownership rate cutoff that makes FHA financing unavailable. That could be an issue for all downtown projects in the future.

Hopefully with the economy improving a thaw will continuie. Downtown has a better future trajectory than any other area in the city.

Sticking to the plan: The Hill developers plot progress on townhomes
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 07:09 PM Wednesday, November 17, 2010

OKLAHOMA CITY – After a slow start due to the downturn in the housing market, the developers of the upscale Hill at Bricktown housing development are optimistic they can start building another 18 units and a clubhouse in the next 15 months.

On Wednesday, broker Michael Biddinger, who is marketing the property at 322 NE Second St., presented plans to the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority on how the development will proceed over the next year and a half.

While other downtown housing development projects halted by a downturn turned their eyes toward rental units when the condo market dried up, The Hill plans to keep its units for sale, Biddinger said in an interview Wednesday.

“Our owners are not interested in just capitalizing on downtown housing, whether it be for rent or for sale,” Biddinger said. “They’re interested in developing for-sale, quality product.”

Seven townhome-style units at The Hill have sold since November 2009, and Biddinger expects to have another three under contract by the end of the year.

The Hill is being developed by biotech and real estate entrepreneur William Canfield.

Construction on the 157-unit, $75 million complex wedged between Bricktown and Interstate 235 came to a standstill when the housing market crashed two years ago. The project’s financing dried up, but construction resumed late last year. So far, 24 units at The Hill have been completed and another eight are under construction.

At that pace, it will take years for the entire complex to rise out of the ground, JoeVan Bullard, executive director of the Urban Renewal Authority, said in an interview.

“But the economy is picking up a little,” Bullard said.

The high-end townhouses at The Hill, which range in price from $350,000 to $815,000 for 1,650 square feet to 3,700 square feet, are attracting young professionals and empty-nesters, Biddinger said.

It would be near impossible for them to market those units as for-rent properties anyway.

I noticed a "pending" sign on another one in the last week. It may be that they're more of what people in Oklahoma City want in a townhouse. Since the entire living space is on the first floor of the one's selling, with the bedrooms upstairs, they feel just like a small house. I don't think they're any cheaper per square foot than the brownstones, but since they're smaller the end result is that they're less expensive to purchase: no jumbo loan with jumbo downpayment required.

The problem is: no one anticipated the economic meltdown, especially in the housing market. Real estate is so faddish. A few years ago everyone was gaga about the concept of people buying higher density real estate than is usually available in Oklahoma City. Now everyone thinks rentals are where it's at, and the level of enthusiasm for them reminds me of that we saw for downtown "for sale" housing a few years ago. The market could quite easily turn and people will again be looking to buy downtown and the rental market could end up overbuilt, with developers having empty units they can't rent. This whole trend of following the latest fad needs to be tempered by the realization that building projects like this take several years, and in the space of several years, the real estate market can change. I don't think it's unreasonable to build smaller units, since that is what seems to be selling best downtown, but if I were a developer, I'd be thinking of the sales and rental market and I'd build for flexibility.

I agree with Architect. Although The Hill is not my favorite project, and I really dislike the way they look from the rear, I think in the end we'll all be glad there is some residential housing in that area that's not rental. They've done a very nice job of landscaping, and it's nice to see people there, walking their dogs, participating in the neighborhood. Deep Deuce is not very well maintained in terms of landscaping and trash pickup. People who rent are less concerned about dropping trash in their yard and on the street, we've noticed. When we walk our dog, we basically spend the walk picking up trash left by residents of Deep Deuce. We don't see that in the developments that are for sale.

Betts, I have to disagree. The housing meltdown was being discussed as early as 2004, when the market was clearly juiced beyond all comprehension. Yes, it was presaged, even if Alan Greenspan pooh-poohed it at the time (while praising ARMs as a mortgage instrument). Greenspan has since admitted he was very wrong and played a key role in screwing the country.

So the financing they had obtained to move forward was just to complete the units that had already been started? I had assumed it was for the completion of the project as a whole. A bit late to the game, but that bums me out.

This situation is not unfamiliar to those in the know in the business, however who knows what the future may hold. Hopefully it wil be finished eventually but it wil be years n the future.

Betts, I have to disagree. The housing meltdown was being discussed as early as 2004, when the market was clearly juiced beyond all comprehension. Yes, it was presaged, even if Alan Greenspan pooh-poohed it at the time (while praising ARMs as a mortgage instrument). Greenspan has since admitted he was very wrong and played a key role in screwing the country.

I agree it was discussed, but I'm not sure how many people believed it would happen. If it had been universally expected, we wouldn't be discussing unsold housing downtown, because it would never have been built.

I'm sure the 18 units would be along he remaining frontage on Stiles, the only suitable location for any type of mixed-use or retail and thus walling off the entire backside of the property with a line of residential units.

Instead, OCURA should force them to complete Phase I then see how things go. At least that way the rest of the property could be adapted for another type of development.

Sticking to the plan: The Hill developers plot progress on townhomes
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 07:09 PM Wednesday, November 17, 2010

OKLAHOMA CITY – After a slow start due to the downturn in the housing market, the developers of the upscale Hill at Bricktown housing development are optimistic they can start building another 18 units and a clubhouse in the next 15 months.

On Wednesday, broker Michael Biddinger, who is marketing the property at 322 NE Second St., presented plans to the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority on how the development will proceed over the next year and a half.

While other downtown housing development projects halted by a downturn turned their eyes toward rental units when the condo market dried up, The Hill plans to keep its units for sale, Biddinger said in an interview Wednesday.

“Our owners are not interested in just capitalizing on downtown housing, whether it be for rent or for sale,” Biddinger said. “They’re interested in developing for-sale, quality product.”

Seven townhome-style units at The Hill have sold since November 2009, and Biddinger expects to have another three under contract by the end of the year.

The Hill is being developed by biotech and real estate entrepreneur William Canfield.

Construction on the 157-unit, $75 million complex wedged between Bricktown and Interstate 235 came to a standstill when the housing market crashed two years ago. The project’s financing dried up, but construction resumed late last year. So far, 24 units at The Hill have been completed and another eight are under construction.

At that pace, it will take years for the entire complex to rise out of the ground, JoeVan Bullard, executive director of the Urban Renewal Authority, said in an interview.

“But the economy is picking up a little,” Bullard said.

The high-end townhouses at The Hill, which range in price from $350,000 to $815,000 for 1,650 square feet to 3,700 square feet, are attracting young professionals and empty-nesters, Biddinger said.


very good news .. and i would bet that the next 18 units will be building 2 .. along with the clubhouse ..

Yes, Building 2 has 18 units... But as I stated, I think they should first finish Buildings 3 & 7, and thus wrap up Phase I.

If and then there is still a decent market for this product, then they could go forward. And if there isn't a market, than the location of Building 2 (the last remaining frontage on the through street, Stiles) could be an entry point to the property behind and allow for a different type of development.

Otherwise, they will have allowed the best part of the property to be cherry-picked, leaving the less desirable parts for someone else to try and pick up the pieces.


OCURA should absolutely not allow this group to hold this property for another 20 years, which is what it would take to develop the entire property at the rate they are going.

There are already footings poured for 3 and 7, so I suspect those will be the next ones they start.

Speculating about some problem OCURA could avoid is pointless anyway.

Further, is a clubhouse really necessary at this point? Just one more thing for a tiny condo association to foot the maintenance bill on at some point.

Anyone know if they are proceeding on the completion of "phase 1"?

What is the possibility that OCURA might actually release the rest of the site for redevelopment?

I talked to someone that worked there a few weeks ago... and they said construction was beginning on building 3 and they were going to finish out three units in the big building 8.

Are they going to finish the Hill out or is it going to just sit there taking up space?

They've sold two more units since the first of the year, but that's only six total out of 32 constructed.

It would be nice if they changed their development and build the rest of it out as mixed use with apartments. I know that will never happen, but if you are going to have a business these days you have to be flexible. Obviously this business model didn't work.

Did the city provide any TIF money for this project?

One of the realtors who specializes in downtown told me four more have contracts pending, including one in the new building. She also said they were going to start the clubhouse and pool soon. All that's hearsay. If the developer doesn't mind waiting, it seems as if we will soon have a plethora of rental options. Maybe it doesn't hurt to keep some housing available to buy.

It would be nice if they changed their development and build the rest of it out as mixed use with apartments. I know that will never happen, but if you are going to have a business these days you have to be flexible. Obviously this business model didn't work.

Did the city provide any TIF money for this project?

I dont think they did, but it was Urban Renewal land, so they got it dirt cheap.

TIF money was used for doing streets and underground utilities on The Hill.

Wait Steve, I am extremely confused (and pissed off) about that. As you recall, the reason this project was ever selected in the first place was because they dropped the TIF request at the 11th hour and notifications weren't made to the other competing developers.

The selection of The Hill occurred during a one-year period when I was not covering Urban Renewal, so I don't recall the TIF request being dropped or not. In December city staff released a report showing which TIF projects were performing, which ones weren't. The Hill was listed as failing to meet projections set by the developer.
The numbers:
→Allocation: $2,650,000
→Current increment: $2,682,554
→Projected increment: $48,779,225
→Projected payback: exceeds life of the district

Here is an Oklahoman article from April 22, 2005:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill2004.jpg

Canfield & Co. also stated in their proposal the townhouses would sell for between $170K and $340K.

Looking at the current listings, there isn't one unit for sale for less than $380,000 and some are $500K.

So does anyone remember what the Walnut Hill group's proposal consisted of? I thought someone said in the past that it incorporated retail and office space.

Yes, Walnut Hill (McDermid et. al.) featured rental lofts, live/work lofts along Stiles and for-sale townhomes.

It was also selected as the clear choice by OCURA's paid consultants but The Hill group was allowed to submit last-minute adjustments to their plan (removal of the TIF funds) without notice to the other applicants.

hmmm......

Canfield & Co. also stated in their proposal the townhouses would sell for between $170K and $340K.

Looking at the current listings, there isn't one unit for sale for less than $380,000 and some are $500K.

Liars.

Canfield & Co. also stated in their proposal the townhouses would sell for between $170K and $340K.

Looking at the current listings, there isn't one unit for sale for less than $380,000 and some are $500K.

The Hill is a big disappointment for residential development in downtown. Where do they come up with the price points? Like seriously, who really wants to pay half a million dollars for a 3 bedroom townhouse with no backyard, that's crazy. Moreover the development doesn't offer any basic amenities for its residents like a pool, clubhouse, gym, etc... For that much money you can have a nice home in Rose Creek or Oak Tree, lol.

There's a pool and clubhouse planned and supposedly construction will start fairly soon, but to me, that just makes it more suburban. But you know what: we've got the Hill and so personally, I hope it's a success ultimately, just like I hope all downtown housing is ultimately a success. It's not my favorite, but they've landscaped it nicely. People living there is now good for our neighborhood. I would object vociferously if Canfield were trying to start something new, but I hope this one gets finished. I don't think it's a spectacular location, so I'm pleased sales have picked up.

There's a pool and clubhouse planned and supposedly construction will start fairly soon, but to me, that just makes it more suburban. But you know what: we've got the Hill and so personally, I hope it's a success ultimately, just like I hope all downtown housing is ultimately a success. It's not my favorite, but they've landscaped it nicely. People living there is now good for our neighborhood. I would object vociferously if Canfield were trying to start something new, but I hope this one gets finished. I don't think it's a spectacular location, so I'm pleased sales have picked up.

The aesthetics of the development are great, its just that the price points are too high, which are driving away potential buyers.

You know it takes all kinds... I prefer it to Maywood Park and I thinks the location is spectacular.

who really wants to pay half a million dollars for a 3 bedroom townhouse with no backyard, that's crazy

I would gladly pay that if it was finished out nice. I actually prefer no backyard (you save soooo much time and money), but in exchange I would like some amenities as part of the complex and for there to be easy access to neighborhood services. This thing has managed to feel isolated, while being in the heart of the city. Is there a market for that? For what it is, you could get the same type of living elsewhere in the city for half the price. It's like a gated community with no gates. The market for that kind of living would want a backyard and no shared walls. Honestly, this is the worst kind of development there is, imo. It's "upscale" with absolutely no "upside". It's in an urban setting with no urban benefits. It's suburban minded with no suburban benefits. It just makes no sense.

Yet, they would probably be close to sold out if they had been put on the market for what was promised. I'm sure many would pay $250K for those units, but not $400K+.

They should be filling the ample need for something larger than a small flat (like Maywood Lofts and Central Avenue Villas) but more affordable than the up-scale Brownstones.

I agree, Pete. They have not built what those seeking urban living are willing to pay a premium for. So, really they built a product for a suburban minded customer wanting a downtown location (does that exist?), but took away all of the suburban amenities and tacked on a premium. I guess the whole question is what is justifying the premium? I can actually begin to justify the Brownstones' premium now that that neighborhood might actually be gaining the urban amenities that is the whole basis of the urban market and the reason they can get premiums. The interesting thing is that it is not far from the Hill location, but the way they built it, it feels separated.

Personally, I still haven't seen anything to make the jump downtown. Now, if anyone ever builds something like The Classen downtown, it would be hard for me to stay away from that.

You know it takes all kinds... I prefer it to Maywood Park and I thinks the location is spectacular.

No offense, but you must really love the Hobbit by J.R. Tolkien if you like The Hill more than Maywood Park.

I think this is a good idea but like everyone else said that price is insane. One thing I was wondering. Has anyone heard of a development using ICF construction in a development. I am just thinking one might pay $400,000 for something with that quality of construction and a few solar panels. The combination of the two would be a heck of a sales feature IMO.


Chris
www.radiookc.com

The Brownstones at Maywood were/are ICF.

Utility costs at the Brownstones are so low it would be hard to justify the cost of solar panels. I saw some great looking ones that were awnings in a photo, however.

Betts, that's generally the point though. It only takes a few panels, which can be arranged in innovative alternatives as you mention, to make a home energy neutral. Some people are interested in the idea of living off the grid, but still living well. Granted, it will be difficult to tackle things like water usage or even just drainage issues in the middle of downtown, but electric conservation is usually the biggest concern people have.

It would have to be the concept of living off the grid that would be the watchword for me, because it would probably take so many years to pay back the cost of installation that it would hardly be cost effective. My electricity costs in the winter are generally below $20 a month. Even this summer they've been about a tenth of what they were in my old house.

No doubt, any excellent idea can be too much of a good thing if taken so far, to a degree that it defeats the purpose of practicality and usefulness.

With the solar talk and living off the grid you have peaked my interest so let me add this. Placing solar panel on your roof doesn't take you off the grid. Unless you live in a remote area, the solar panels on the roof are tied back into the grid using a grid-phase inverter. You essentially become your own utility company generating electricity and selling it to the electric company. The solar panels cause your meter to run backwards (or at least slow down) so every month (depending on usage) you either have a credit with the electric company or a small bill. To go off-grid you would have to have a large battery system to store the electricity. As for water, rain gutters feeding a cistern could provide all the water you would ever need (especially if you have no lawn to water) but it would have to be built before the house is built unless you have a yard to put in. Some yard based systems can store 30,000 gallons.

Urban off-grid systems is a recent interest of mine.

This is correct that in an urban setting it is far less than practical to have a facility "off the Grid". Energy is meant to be consumed, to store require very cost prohibitive battery systems that have all sorts of other nasty potential issues, such as storage of caustic and toxic materials within that can leak out, limited life cycle requiring replacement often prior to ROI, among others such as how and where the old one is disposed of etc... just to name a few.

While walking my dog today I noticed that two of the newest buildings being completed at The Hill now have "sold" signs on them. That should be at least six they've sold this year. I realize that's not the same as filling up an entire development, but it at least shows there is continued interest in for sale dwellings downtown. On of the townhouses at Maywood Park just sold as well. I had friends visiting here who may be moving back and downtown was the only place they wanted to look at housing. They were very impressed with the amount of activity in the Triangle/Deep Deuce.

Good to know, thanks for the info Betts.

They've also redone their website to where now it is easy to see what is under construction, has been sold, or is under contract:
http://www.thehillokc.com/index.php

County Assessor site shows a total of 11 units sold.

Thanks betts for the update. I hope they continue to sell well.

I purchased one of the units at The Hill recently and I ABSOLUTELY love it! I did a lot of research downtown and picked The Hill because it's finishes are great and the quality of construction is fantastic. You literally hear like Zero street noise in the units and with GeoThermal Heating & Cooling and the super efficient insulation, my utility bills went from $500 per month in my previous house to $50 per month which I LOVE!

Even though it is selling for more per square foot than Block 42, in my opinion, the finishes/construction quality at The Hill are FAR SUPERIOR to Block 42. 2 car garages, built in tornado shelters, SUPER TALL ceilings, etc. Plus, The Hill has plenty of room to expand and they should be putting in the Pool / Clubhouse very soon with all of the recent sales (they've sold 5 units in the past 3 months and a few other large ones are under contract).

If you look at the comps, the price point of the Hill is similar per square foot to anything else downtown. I also found their monthly maintenance/association fees to be lower (as much as 50% less) than the other competing complexes such as Maywood, Harvey Lofts, Centennial, Block 42, etc.), which is one of the things that helped me decide on this complex. The floor plans are also laid out really well and the space is very functional....big living areas downstairs and a nice flow for the upstairs bedrooms/bathrooms. I wasn't a big fan of the Maywood Brownstones because the floorplans were somewhat strange and with the elevator in the middle of the units, it doesn't allow for large spaces (and things are boxed off).

I read the earlier posts about people complaining that the units at The Hill are priced too high....The bottom line is a home is going to cost more when you are in a desirable location. OKC has a lot of great things going on and downtown is becoming more and more attractive all the time. I love being able to walk to Bricktown or Red Prime / Iguana / etc. and yes, I'm more than willing to pay a higher price for that convenience over a home in Edmond or Moore.

For example, my neighborhood in the NYC area (Jersey City) is located along the Hudson River waterfront and is about a 5 minute subway ride to the World Trade Center / Financial District in Lower Manhattan. Because of its close proximity to a highly desirable area, the condos/townhouses in my area sell for approx $600 to $1,000+ per square foot, depending on the age of the building and amenities. You can go literally 3 miles west of me, IN THE SAME CITY, and the price drops all the way down to $200 to $300 a foot....It's all about Location, Location, Location and while its not as extreme as that example in OKC, you still are going to pay more (on average) to live downtown than anywhere else in the metro.

I've been a longtime resident of metro OKC (14 years) and have had a home in the NYC area for quite a while (11 years) and I can say that I really feel energized about my move from a large home in suburban OKC to downtown. I honestly don't even feel like I live in the same city anymore. I think more and more people like myself are starting to realize that downtown is great place to live and I really believe it will flourish over the coming years and that is VERY exciting to me as I think it's the next chapter OKC needs in its continued success (attracting people to the urban core)

With the opening of the Level Apartments / aLoft Hotel in Deep Deuce, I think all of the Eastern Downtown / Northern Bricktown area will benefit....More population density equates to more and more restaurants, shops, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a small Market open up in the area in the next 12 to 24 months.

I encourage you to come visit The Hill, do a tour and put the pencil to the paper to crunch some numbers. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by how affordable it is to live downtown compared to other housing options. Although I have a little less space than my previous home, I am saving about $1,000 a month when all is said and done with and the previous home in the OKC suburbs was at the same price point of the unit I purchased downtown (thru no pool costs, no yard care costs, 80% lower utility costs (and I'm not exaggerating on that at all) no high insurance costs--that is covered by the HOA dues, no fixing stuff all of the time, etc.).

That's my .02

Wow, thanks for that thorough summary! Great to hear!

Me like. Very good summary.

Ram 1500 Pickup: $525 per month
Ram 1500 Insurance: $62 per month
Ram 1500 Gasoline: $150 per month
Armada SUV: $825 per month
Armada Insurance: $52 per month
Armada Gasoline: $200 per month

Total just to own 2 cars: $1,814 per month.

Let's talk about that location, location, location theory again. What I really want is a SmartCar, a Segway, and a bicycle. I could live downtown just on the money I save by living downtown. Think about that for a minute. Anyone want to buy a 4 bedroom 2.5 bath house in a gated community 10 minutes from the Atlantic Ocean and 2 minutes from world class shopping?

Wow. Someone should put this recommendation on their website... Then maybe they'd sell the rest of them and finish the development.

You can add in another $300+ a month for lawn maintenance savings, and if the Hill is anywhere near as energy efficient as the brownstones, I can add in another $300+ a month in ultility savings. The savings add up rather quickly. My insurance costs dropped too.