Rand has done some great work. No doubt. He's also done some work that is self-indulgent and lacking in functionality. It's a mixed bag. One thing he consistently always delivers is ego.

Don't forget he didn't want trees there either, which makes the area far less tolerable in the heat.

I guess we're proving the point that is cool to bag on Rand. He has done some great work for the city, but his resistance to designing for people and hypocritically throwing around his influence in Automobile Alley have certainly damaged his rep somewhat.

Actually, the building in AA Rand objected to got built and it is hideously ugly and vacant. Maybe he actually knew something.

Personally I like that building. It's less good now that the balconies changed after his objection, but I'd live there.

Personally I like that building. It's less good now that the balconies changed after his objection, but I'd live there.

You'd live there? Isn't it an office building? LOL.

The previous design was even more hideous. But nonetheless, Rand haters will double down.

Actually, the building in AA Rand objected to got built and it is hideously ugly and vacant. Maybe he actually knew something.

Wait, wasn't it Rand's fault that the design ended up worse? He forced the developer into a worse re-design by requiring brick. He then designed Oklahoma Contemporary within a block without holding himself to the same standard.

"Hideously ugly" is entirely subjective. If anything it makes a bit of an interesting statement as the north end of the mid-rise buildings on the east side of Broadway.

You'd live there? Isn't it an office building? LOL.

I thought some floors would be residential. If that were the case, I'd live there. If not, my bad.

Actually, the building in AA Rand objected to got built and it is hideously ugly and vacant. Maybe he actually knew something.

Rand objected to the proposed original designs which if built would be vastly better than what we have today.

It is BECAUSE of Rand that the building is built to the current form NOT the other way around. ...

Rand objected to the proposed original designs which if built would be vastly better than what we have today.

It is BECAUSE of Rand that the building is built to the current form NOT the other way around. ...

I disagree, as did other architects I know, that the first design was better. So, we will agree to disagree. It apparently fit your tastes.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bplace1.jpg


yeah buddy, we don't disagree on much but I think this would have been better (excluding the garage which should have continued the facade).

Agree!!!

100% agree. The addition of the brick just totally sunk this project. The initial design was fine.

Lol. Regardless of preference of one over the other, we should be able to agree that one is very ugly and the other is hideous. Order is preference.

My early childhood days, I was notorious for bringing home stray animals. My grandmother had the perfect saying: It's UGLY but it's CUTE. :D

The balconies as depicted in the first rendering were rejected because of public sidewalk overhang. Those were code, long-term maintenance and liability issues, not a Rand issue.

And having known Rand and worked closely with him for a number of years - including my stint as a board member of the Automobile Alley Main Street Program, as chair of its Design Committee and later as executive director - I get really sick of hearing that his objections were ego-driven.

Even if his approach was unwelcome by some, Rand was trying to protect the integrity of the contiguous district, as outlined in planning documents created by the City of OKC Planning Department in the mid-90s. It identified building types consistent with the historic fabric from 4th to Park Place. It had nothing to do with Rand's ego and everything to do with accepted best practices in an identified historic district. It's no different than the insistence on the use of brick in Bricktown. The problem was that those guidelines had never been properly codified.

Those rules did not apply to Oklahoma Contemporary because it is outside of the accepted (and planning) boundaries of the Automobile Alley Historic District, and if you walk the area you can clearly understand why. The district clearly ends physically just north of 10th and Broadway.

And I can tell you from experience that the REASON Rand was so adamant was because he felt an obligation to speak for the people who worked to lift that district up immediately post-bombing; scores of volunteers, stakeholders, City officials, professionals from around the nation representing the AIA, the ULI and others. He was trying to protect the legacy of those people, and attempts to characterize it as something other than that are either dishonest or ignorant of what came before. Criticize his often austere designs or apparent disdain for trees or his use of white all you want, but his efforts here had nothing to do with his own personal taste or his ego.

I assume the proposed project is what is being referred to in Item 7 of the upcoming OCURA meeting's agenda? The mention of the "MAPS Sports-Entertainment-Parking Support Redevelopment Plan" threw me off but I don't know if that's just their zoning for this entire area.

https://okc.primegov.com/Public/CompiledDocument/20098

I assume the proposed project is what is being referred to in Item 7 of the upcoming OCURA meeting's agenda? The mention of the "MAPS Sports-Entertainment-Parking Support Redevelopment Plan" threw me off but I don't know if that's just their zoning for this entire area.

https://okc.primegov.com/Public/CompiledDocument/20098

Yes, it's a resolution to approve Burnett Equity as the developer for the remainder of The Hill.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill091421a.jpg

Ward 7 Town Hall on 10/26 includes this topic, among others, on the agenda.

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/neokc-town-hall-with-councilwoman-nikki-nice-tickets-189976714467

Still nothing happening on the remaining lots except native plant growth. I still stand by packaging and selling privately with some HOA conditionals. The views from this area are top tier.

Still nothing happening on the remaining lots except native plant growth. I still stand by packaging and selling privately with some HOA conditionals. The views from this area are top tier.

The new developer has yet to submit a new design for review.

That would have to be the first step toward getting started.

so?... another 2 years minimum before there's possibly new construction here. .. WOW 2024!

It's not like we have a housing shortage or anything.

Unlikely these will be the affordable homes that will contribute to solving that problem.

Every new home on the market contributes to solving the housing shortage problem, even the expensive ones built for the rich people. It gives them a place to buy that doesn't involve gentrifying an existing neighborhood.

Every new home on the market contributes to solving the housing shortage problem, even the expensive ones built for the rich people. It gives them a place to buy that doesn't involve gentrifying an existing neighborhood.

This. All new housing of all types help contribute to our housing shortage. And while medium to lower priced housing is in more demand, we shouldnt realistically expect that in The Hill.

This. All new housing of all types help contribute to our housing shortage. And while medium to lower priced housing is in more demand, we shouldnt realistically expect that in The Hill.

exactly. More housing stock is a good thing, at all levels.

The new developer just texted me back that they are "still working on it".

They have yet to file detailed plans with OCURA and design review.

Since it has been a year since the last post: curious to see if there has been any movement or signals from the developer at all on this?

Since it has been a year since the last post: curious to see if there has been any movement or signals from the developer at all on this?

I asked Andy Burnett about this a couple of months ago and he said "We are still working on it".

I suspect getting financing is the issue.

Since it has been a year since the last post: curious to see if there has been any movement or signals from the developer at all on this?

I asked Andy Burnett about this a couple of months ago and he said "We are still working on it".

I suspect getting financing is the issue.

I'm curious from our realtor members how much demand there is for the existing homes in The Hill? Do many come on the market and are they moving quick? Does the cost per square foot selling average justify building more homes? I don't follow this area so have no clue.

I walked through the Hill this week in order to do some marketing for a realtor. There were a few homes for lease or rent. I wonder how many of these are owned and not lived in?

Update:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill081523a.jpg

I am always amazed that they managed to sell the ones that overlook the I-235 on ramp. I would imagine the ones that will overlook the actual highway might be an even tougher sell, but I guess if the price is right...

I am always amazed that they managed to sell the ones that overlook the I-235 on ramp. I would imagine the ones that will overlook the actual highway might be an even tougher sell, but I guess if the price is right...

The direction the unit is facing isn't too important here. The developer has emphasized skyline views for all of the units where possible. For example, all of the units facing that onramp have large enclosed patios on the backside that have a view of Bricktown and the CBD.

I would imagine whatever units are built closer to I-235 will also have emphasis on the rooftop/back balcony view.

With the highway noise, you will want any type of patio and windows having maximum structure blocking to the east.

if this has stayed with the original developer i think that there would be at least 1 additional building by now ..

if this has stayed with the original developer i think that there would be at least 1 additional building by now ..

lol. He had years.

This project should soon start moving forward again.

The group led by Andy Burnett is no longer involved. Now, it is Greg McCalister, the main home builder at the Wheeler District.

Hopefully McCalister can bring some of that success from Wheeler and build a product that will attract buyers so The Hill can finally be finished.

This project should soon start moving forward again.

The group led by Andy Burnett is no longer involved. Now, it is Greg McCalister, the main home builder at the Wheeler District.

Hopefully McCalister can bring some of that success from Wheeler and build a product that will attract buyers so The Hill can finally be finished.

Sweet. Thanks for the update. I wonder about this all the time.

Here is the presentation to OCURA.

They would reduce the density and number of platted lots from 66 to 54. The exterior design will seek to somewhat blend with the existing townhomes, but the interiors and layouts will be a lot more like what you see in the Wheeler District.

Work is to start in 2025 and completion will depend on demand but the hope is it will all be finished by 2030. Architect is Common Works.


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IMO, this is a significant upgrade from the boring style that already exists.

IMO, this is a significant upgrade from the boring style that already exists.

The Wheeler District has proven that there is strong demand for these high-density homes, but they need to be designed in a modern, attractive way.

I've never liked the interiors of the existing Hill homes... Way too boring and traditional.

I bet these new Hill homes sell very well.

The Wheeler District has proven that there is strong demand for these high-density homes, but they need to be designed in a modern, attractive way.

I've never liked the interiors of the existing Hill homes... Way too boring and traditional.

I bet these new Hill homes sell very well.

I think the idea of giving each home a small courtyard is great! It reminds me of the pocket neighborhood of Carey Place. Do we know what the small side-connected structures are going to be? A sun room, a Greenhouse, etc.?

The Wheeler District has proven that there is strong demand for these high-density homes, but they need to be designed in a modern, attractive way.
And The Lark in Edmond seems to be selling like hotcakes too. I think we'll see more of these pop up around the metro.

And The Lark in Edmond seems to be selling like hotcakes too. I think we'll see more of these pop up around the metro.

these are much much bigger then the Lark ..

11 at 1,500 sqft (these are the small townhomes)

12 at 2,000 sqft (medium townhomes )

11 at 2,500 sqft ( large townhomes)

and then the detached .. 8 at 3,000 sqft .. and 12 at 2,500 sqft ..

these are much much bigger then the Lark ..

11 at 1,500 sqft (these are the small townhomes)

12 at 2,000 sqft (medium townhomes )

11 at 2,500 sqft ( large townhomes)

and then the detached .. 8 at 3,000 sqft .. and 12 at 2,500 sqft ..

Okaaay...I guess?

I never said they weren't. Not really sure why you quoted me.

These look awesome. I've always thought this kind of row-house design is smashing.

And The Lark in Edmond seems to be selling like hotcakes too. I think we'll see more of these pop up around the metro.

I think the Lark is a decent density improvement, but I can't believe they are building single family housing in Deep Deuce. I am sure they will sell well.