Just so folks know what that article is about...

Any updates?

I've not heard anything, but maybe Pete has.

Latest from OCURA. The present group headed by Bill Canfield has been granted an extension to their contract to develop the rest of the units.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill011619.jpg

Latest from OCURA. The present group headed by Bill Canfield has been granted an extension to their contract to develop the rest of the units.

Tell me how to feel about this, Pete.

I really had hoped that the unites would curve along with the street... Missed opportunity in my opinion.

By the time they finish this we really might have flying cars.

I’d like yall’s thoughts on this... The Hill is a cool neighborhood that will only get cooler as it is completed. But what if instead of strictly housing, they built in retail space, restaurants, etc and incorporated it into the design of the neighborhood? It would’ve been good for foot traffic and making it a “live, work, play” type of deal.

^^get off my lawn

I’d like yall’s thoughts on this... The Hill is a cool neighborhood that will only get cooler as it is completed. But what if instead of strictly housing, they built in retail space, restaurants, etc and incorporated it into the design of the neighborhood? It would’ve been good for foot traffic and making it a “live, work, play” type of deal.

I'll take things that make too much sense for $1,000, Alex.

... The Hill is a cool neighborhood...

Is it though?

I appreciate the idea behind the Hill. I don't care for it's execution, at all. Due to the vacancy every time I drive by I think of the "Sudden Valley" neighborhood from Arrested Development.

Insert "IveMadeAHugeMistake.gif"

I’d like yall’s thoughts on this... The Hill is a cool neighborhood that will only get cooler as it is completed. But what if instead of strictly housing, they built in retail space, restaurants, etc and incorporated it into the design of the neighborhood? It would’ve been good for foot traffic and making it a “live, work, play” type of deal.

Yes, this would have made sense if it was done at the beginning and competing proposals included mixed use retail. But, businesses really would need to be along Russell M. Perry to be successful. Obviously that ship has sailed. And, the Hill is designed to be somewhat closed off from the area (e.g., locked gate, "private" sidewalk off Russell M. Perry), which I'm sure many of their residents like. It would just be nice to see it finished.

Is it though?

I appreciate the idea behind the Hill. I don't care for it's execution, at all. Due to the vacancy every time I drive by I think of the "Sudden Valley" neighborhood from Arrested Development.

Insert "IveMadeAHugeMistake.gif"

I agree with you 100%. I like the idea of The Hill and it’s existence but ongoing construction, vacancy, and it having a suburban feel make it not so cool in my eyes. I guess I’m looking at its potential rather than what it is now.

I don't think it's large enough to really require its own retail space. You're looking at just a couple of little streets there. You can walk to Deep Deuce and Bricktown in just a few minutes.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill020319.jpg

This is from the OCURA agenda.

The Hill is years behind schedule and it seems there is now a legal dispute.

The nature of their contract with the city is that they only gain ownership and right to develop new tracts as milestones are reached.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill061919a.jpg

Any updates on the contract or work? Are they even working on the next units currently or is everything at a standstill?

Any updates on the contract or work? Are they even working on the next units currently or is everything at a standstill?

The city and the developers are in negotiation.

The deal is setup where Canfield (the developer) gets to purchase more tracts as he finished phases. But he has been moving very slowly and the city wants him to build smaller more affordable units.

I believe he's completed 88 units but it's taken him more than a decade. He has also been building much bigger, more expensive units than he had originally proposed when he won a competition to develop the land for OCURA.

This is from the last OCURA meeting; they went into executive session to discuss. Sounds a bit ominous:

"To engage in confidential communications between the Board of Commissioners
and its attorney concerning a pending investigation, claim, or action involving the
Contract for Sale of Land and Redevelopment, as amended, with The Hill at
Bricktown, L.L.C., and where on advice of its attorney, the Board of
Commissioners has determined that disclosure will seriously impair the ability of
the public body to process the claim or conduct a pending investigation, litigation,
or proceeding in the public interest."

So is the official status of this development being on hold now? The current developer is out and new proposals will be offered or simply a new development to finish the current plans?

So is the official status of this development being on hold now? The current developer is out and new proposals will be offered or simply a new development to finish the current plans?

I believe there are still on-going negotiations with the current developer.

I believe there are still on-going negotiations with the current developer.
Wow. Hard to believe with what seems to be a majority of the development complete that it is held up.

Wow. Hard to believe with what seems to be a majority of the development complete that it is held up.

I think it is harder to believe that it took this long before the city decided to take some sort of action. The Hill has been in development for 11 YEARS. And I would say it's barely past the point to be able to claim that the majority of it is complete. At the current pace, it will take another 8-9 years before this development is completed.

^^^^ +1

Looks like OCURA has come to a new agreement with the developer of this project.

They keep extending the deadlines... This project was awarded in July of 2006 (!) and is still only half built.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill012520a.jpg

Not surprised. They are just kinda locked in there. I HOPE in the next phase they have drastic changes in design. People, for the most part, don't want traditional finishes in an urban environment.

Not surprised. They are just kinda locked in there. I HOPE in the next phase they have drastic changes in design. People, for the most part, don't want traditional finishes in an urban environment.
Not necessarily true. I've seen tons of traditional styles in other cities. But, cutting out things like trim, expensive flooring and other materials, etc. can lower construction costs while developers can sell contemporary. Right now we are going through a contemporary/modern style era in OKC, so it works.

High end market is kinda being tested at Hill right now.....4 units priced at $899,900 or higher. The 899 unit is marked down from 939 original list. Two of the 4 are over $1 mill.

Update. None of those units have sold in the 13 months on the open market. KD's entertaining side was remodeled back to living unit and did sale to a Trust for $724,000. Was re-listed then was recently released from the listing at $899,000. 2 doors down another of the large units (3600 sq ft) is down to $850,000. Those larger units at that price point aren't getting much action

Pete, any details on the new agreement?

I don’t mind “traditional,” but why would someone pay 800k for a downtown condo with interior finishes like some average Edmond tract home?

I don’t mind “traditional,” but why would someone pay 800k for a downtown condo with interior finishes like some average Edmond tract home?

I know it’s hyperbole, because if you think those finishes are the same as some average Edmond tract home you either are lost about construction or you have to imagine houses in Edmond are an INCREDIBLE bargain. Maybe you think tract houses sell for $800,000. Lol.

Don’t understand the hatred some have for Edmond.

I know it’s hyperbole, because if you think those finishes are the same as some average Edmond tract home you either are lost about construction or you have to imagine houses in Edmond are an INCREDIBLE bargain. Maybe you think tract houses sell for $800,000. Lol.

Don’t understand the hatred some have for Edmond.
Can’t speak for the quality of the hill but some recent developments in Edmond have been, quite frankly, comically bad as far as interior finishes go.

I've been inside a few Hill units. Back when they were first built, before I moved downtown, they were a "dream home" type scenario for me. But once I saw the inside, not that I wouldn't appreciate such a place in a lot of ways still, they were just not my type of decor, so I'd have to spend a bundle changing it up after having just spent a bundle acquiring the place.

Can’t speak for the quality of the hill but some recent developments in Edmond have been, quite frankly, comically bad as far as interior finishes go.

As some have been in OKc, Yukon, Shawnee, Dallas, Tulsa, Chicago, NYC, Austin, .....

People need to stop using Edmond as their whipping boy for all their boogie men. It’s petty and inaccurate.

I've been inside a few Hill units. Back when they were first built, before I moved downtown, they were a "dream home" type scenario for me. But once I saw the inside, not that I wouldn't appreciate such a place in a lot of ways still, they were just not my type of decor, so I'd have to spend a bundle changing it up after having just spent a bundle acquiring the place.

in what ways??

I’ve been in a few houses at the Hill. Finishes are fine, although not ultra high end. They’re a style you see more in suburban homes, but taste is relative.

I’ve been in a few houses at the Hill. Finishes are fine, although not ultra high end. They’re a style you see more in suburban homes, but taste is relative.

It’s not the style you are seeing in the new homes in many of the suburbs like Nichols Hills which are contemporary... but it isn’t the price either. The Hill homes by in large have pretty quality construction with cabinet construction, hardware, plumbing systems, real wood trim, real wood floors, elevators, etc. Just because many have a style of a base or ceiling trim or particular color of wood doesn’t reduce its quality. A lot of urban development uses modern design with lack of certain elements because it is cheaper and even can Be more trendy. Polished concrete floors and no trim, or flat front cabinets of laminate isn’t better quality. Much new construction isn’t nearly as well sound insulated or use the same quality of Hvac, etc as the Hill. Plumbing and hot water systems can be cheapened in many ways and are. Most wouldn’t know until their utility bills, or repair and maintenance shows up In 10 or 15 years. Hardware can really be a differentiator.

Bottom line is that the Hill isn’t trendy design and isn’t designed for that market.

This type of development for the area is outdated. It looked good a decade ago, but now the price points are too high and people don't want those types of builds downtown.

ItÂ’s not the style you are seeing in the new homes in many of the suburbs like Nichols Hills which are contemporary... but it isnÂ’t the price either. The Hill homes by in large have pretty quality construction with cabinet construction, hardware, plumbing systems, real wood trim, real wood floors, elevators, etc. Just because many have a style of a base or ceiling trim or particular color of wood doesnÂ’t reduce its quality. A lot of urban development uses modern design with lack of certain elements because it is cheaper and even can Be more trendy. Polished concrete floors and no trim, or flat front cabinets of laminate isnÂ’t better quality. Much new construction isnÂ’t nearly as well sound insulated or use the same quality of Hvac, etc as the Hill. Plumbing and hot water systems can be cheapened in many ways and are. Most wouldnÂ’t know until their utility bills, or repair and maintenance shows up In 10 or 15 years. Hardware can really be a differentiator.

Bottom line is that the Hill isnÂ’t trendy design and isnÂ’t designed for that market.

The interior finishes at the Hill are designed for the old man yelling at the clouds and his third wife "Karen". They aren't looking to be in a dense urban area with no space and too many scary people. If the developer at the Hill would go look at the Wheeler District or Kayla Baker's work on 6th Street and incorporate one of those finishes his product would start selling again. Different people want different things and people that intentionally chose an urban lifestyle often want true historic, modern or Scandinavian.
The gaudy interior style in the Hill isn't a natural fit for the existing customer base. Obviously the market has spoken because homes keep selling in Sosa, Heritage, Mesta, and the Wheeler District.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill030620a.jpg

Another 20 years and they might even finish.

I've always wondered why they didn't turn the area that was scheduled to be developed last into a small little park or dog park... I mean, the residents could have had that amenity for the last 15 years... and several most years to come.

The interior finishes at the Hill are designed for the old man yelling at the clouds and his third wife "Karen". They aren't looking to be in a dense urban area with no space and too many scary people. If the developer at the Hill would go look at the Wheeler District or Kayla Baker's work on 6th Street and incorporate one of those finishes his product would start selling again. Different people want different things and people that intentionally chose an urban lifestyle often want true historic, modern or Scandinavian.
The gaudy interior style in the Hill isn't a natural fit for the existing customer base. Obviously the market has spoken because homes keep selling in Sosa, Heritage, Mesta, and the Wheeler District.

LOL. Gotta love the stereotyping without facts. First of all, this is a way denser development than Wheeler or Sosa, and I love both. I don't know of the "scary" people you speak of. The only ones I hear talking this way are people with an agenda. The reason's many don't live downtown are varied and mostly valid. Scary people is not one of them. I hear way more about scary people in suburban areas like around Penn and 30th or 36th, not DD or AA.

Your really think the finishes at the hill are "gaudy". Well, they may not be the style hipsters like, but they definitely aren't gaudy. Simple trim molding, wood floors, stone counter tops, traditional fixtures, are not gaudy, they are just a style choice. They aren't minimalism, but not gaudy. Urban in the rest of the real world does not equate just to modern or Scandinavian. If you visit real urban areas you see a lot of choice of styles and all are valid. Frankly, it is cheaper to use no trim, concrete floors, open ceilings, and flat panel cabinet faces anyway, and that is why a lot of urban building uses that style... it is cheaper to build.

That said, I think the problem at the Hill is basically price, not style. Unless you can pay cash, condo financing is more difficult. The other problem is that the floor-plans of many are unworkable for many.... OKC still hasn't been really receptive to 3 story houses with lots of space taken up by stairs and hallways. It also limits some who simply don't want to go up and down stairs all the time.

I've always wondered why they didn't turn the area that was scheduled to be developed last into a small little park or dog park... I mean, the residents could have had that amenity for the last 15 years... and several most years to come.

That would be a great idea. How is the homeowner association set up to pay for that upkeep? What is the cost to the developer?

I also think the railroad right of way between dd and bt would be a great park/trails area until (if ever) the railroad owner actually is prepared to use the tracks.

Another 20 years and they might even finish.

Positioned too close to I-35. The mystic aura of slow construction has enveloped it.

LOL. Gotta love the stereotyping without facts. First of all, this is a way denser development than Wheeler or Sosa, and I love both. I don't know of the "scary" people you speak of. The only ones I hear talking this way are people with an agenda. The reason's many don't live downtown are varied and mostly valid. Scary people is not one of them. I hear way more about scary people in suburban areas like around Penn and 30th or 36th, not DD or AA. ...

Sorry for the tangent, but this jumped out at me - Penn/30th is not suburban.

Sorry for the tangent, but this jumped out at me - Penn/30th is not suburban.
1583415835

in terms of density, i don't see how nw 30th and penn is materially different than sw 65th and penn. seems to me both are suburban.

1583415835

in terms of density, i don't see how nw 30th and penn is materially different than sw 65th and penn. seems to me both are suburban.

Depends on your definition of suburban, I suppose. Most definitions say "outlying", "outskirts", "within commuting distance of a city", etc. I consider suburban anything past the Kilpatrick, I-35, and I-240. Density-wise, it's pretty much the same all inside that loop except when it gets to literally downtown, so is all of OKC except the CBD suburban, going by density measurements?

Sorry for the tangent, but this jumped out at me - Penn/30th is not suburban.
I guess technically it may be urban as it isn’t at the edge or outskirts of the main OKC. But then again, so would 50th and Penn be and 63rd, etc

7 new units to be approved by the Urban Renewal Authority:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill041420a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hill041420b.jpg

I wonder if you could get one of these bare bones if you wanted a modern home. Then pay another contractor to complete it.

I wonder if you could get one of these bare bones if you wanted a modern home. Then pay another contractor to complete it.

My guess is that if you commit to purchase before finished out they will finish it however you want. I doubt you could bring in another contractor though. But, it would be worth asking them.

That’s pretty ambitious. Wonder if they will be able to pull it off.

I hope so. I've looked at these really hard about three different times. I couldn't pull the trigger because I would have to gut the house. I like the elegance but it's not me.

Any plans to add a Bodega/some sort of shop(s) in this area? I know it's built for residential, but a few businesses would make it feel like a real "urban" neighborhood.

Any plans to add a Bodega/some sort of shop(s) in this area? I know it's built for residential, but a few businesses would make it feel like a real "urban" neighborhood.

It would be cool, but the place do it would have been in the front of this development, not in the back. I'd still love to see it work, but can't imagine it happening.

Native Roots is only 2 blocks away and it is going to be shuttered for lack of business.

There is also a Circle K 3 blocks south.

Bricktown Express was in the Power Alley parking garage but closed.

I wonder if the current HOA would allow the developer to sell the remaining lots on the east side for private development? It seems insane that the oldest homes here are now 12 years outdated and the neighborhood isn't even complete.

Is the current HOA footing the bill of the non-built units? Or is the developer responsible for kicking that in each month?

OCURA owns the undeveloped lots. They only pass title when the developer is ready to build the next row of units and it seems we have reached the end of the road with William Canfield.

Not sure how the HOA dues work but someone has to be paying for the pool and clubhouse and common areas.

ridiculous

The Oklahoman is reporting the city has finally cut ties with the developer, Bill Canfield, and will be putting out an RFP to finish the project.

He won development rights in 2004 and promised to finish by 2008 with units that were much less expensive than what he ended up charging. In the end, he didn't even finish half the development in 16 years.

https://oklahoman.com/article/5679039/time-runs-out-for-developer-of-the-hill-in-deep-deuce