Good post east coast okie, you are right some are much more extreme/passionate than others concerning their religion. Point duly noted.

Look.....let's look at the real issue. It's the Radical Right in this country pushing their 'Christian Agenda' on good, hard-working, law-abiding Americans.

You can't go anywhere anymore without seeing these Christians cramming their lifestyle down our throats. Turn on TV right now.....you'll find numerous channels of this drivel. Drive down the street, you see endless buidlings and billboards filled with this silliness. Visit a strip mall, you'll find stores dedicated to it. Hit a basketball game, they start the night off with it. Now they want to put it in our schools.....with our KIDS!

Look, I know a few Christians....some of my best-friends are Christian.....but it's a warped lifestyle. They say you're born again with it, but I'm convinced it's a CHOICE.....a CHOICE to be warped in the head.

Can't we get our country back........and just get back to living a life based on reality?

Why can't the social right push its own agenda? What's wrong with that?

You must hate free speech, and by extension, you must hate America.

Traitor.

Look.....let's look at the real issue. It's the Radical Right in this country pushing their 'Christian Agenda' on good, hard-working, law-abiding Americans.


I'm not even Christian and I don't see that. Some people are very excited about their Christian religion but they aren't ugly about it. I see a lot MORE ugliness from people pitching a fit, refusing to allow other people to practice their religion, Christian or otherwise. When you consider what they could be doing - at least the christians aren't violent or ugly. I mean, seriously, how miffed can you get at a religion that is so watered down that they mainly just want to have a group hug? (sorry Christians - no offense). I think they are mainly frustrated that the outward trappings of Christianity are being stomped out. Honestly, why get upset about a religion that preaches the golden rule; not lying, stealing or cheating; chastity, paying your bills, working your job, etc. They certainly aren't threatening to blow you up if you don't go along.

I don't appreciate people coming to my door and pushing their faith but they always go away if I tell them I am not interested or use my fall back line - "I'll listen to you tell me about your religion if you'll come to a coven meeting." That is a joke - I have never gotten to use that line. I keep waiting. The deal with Christianity, particularly protestant, is that it is an evangelical religion - that frequently means they are out trying to make converts. If they just bred their own, it would be less annoying. :)

Of course, I'm not living in Oklahoma, presently, so that may explain why I see this as such a nonissue. On the east coast, religion is not really even on the radar. There are a ton of people who follow the jewish religion but they don't try to convert you. The christians are the majority, by far, but it's pretty much a Sunday affair. I can appreciate that in Oklahoma you have more people knocking on your doors and asking if you know where you are going if you die, tonight. It is irritating. But if the people back east can tolerate a prayer before a ballgame - and there are a lot of non christians around here - I don't know why people in the heartland have to get so darn freaked out over it. I think it is just one of those things that Okies want to rebel about because it is so much in your face. If they were living near the forests, they'd be bitching about timber sellers. If they lived in Maryland, they be all up in arms about crabs.

Just my opinion.

Then don't go to NBA games in OKC. You don't have a fundamental right to do so. This isn't a government function.
Congratulations, and as winner of the Blinding Elucidator of the Obvious award (a.k.a. the B.E.O.) you'll win several pair of rolled eyes, the mocking approval of your friends, plus the opportunity to show me where, exactly, I ever implied otherwise. I get it; this isn't a first amendment issue.


I actually feel uncomfortable participating in group prayers outside of church. Ordinarily, while everyone bows their heads and prays, I just look around the room and wait for it to be over. It's no big ass deal.

And to date, no one has suggested I be stoned.

At least not for that.

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think your feelings are all that reasonable. Further, I think your fears are completely unfounded. Heck.. I've not bowed my head to pray at funerals, sporting events, church, you name it, I've not bowed my head at it.... and I've lived to tell the tale.

Just realize that this is the culture you live in and people are going to do what they want to do. When you are the 1% in the crowd who disagrees, your feelings do not take precedent over the desires of the 99% who think everything is fine. And for what it's worth, count me among the 99%.
This isn't about my feelings either. I was simply defending the use of the word "coerced." My only real point, or question, has been why? Exactly what is the intended objective of a pregame prayer (surely there's some reason it is given) and how well does this prayer achieve that objective. That's it, nothing more nefarious than a simple question and follow-up.

Good points, ECO. However, in all the years I've lived in Oklahoma (most of my life), not one person has ever come to my door to preach, sell their religion, or try to get me to convert. In fact, I ran into that in places NOT in the "bible belt", which I find a little amusing.

People complaining about the "Christian Agenda" just like to complain. Like you said, if they lived somewhere else, they'd be bitching about whatever regional issue resides there. And with it coming from SNSPoke, it has even less importance, as all he does is bitch about Oklahoma.

You can't go anywhere anymore without seeing these Christians cramming their lifestyle down our throats. Turn on TV right now.....you'll find numerous channels of this drivel. Drive down the street, you see endless buidlings and billboards filled with this silliness. Visit a strip mall, you'll find stores dedicated to it. Hit a basketball game, they start the night off with it. Now they want to put it in our schools.....with our KIDS!

A little sensitive are we?

Christians have the right to have stores in the mall, billboards, and TV channels just as much as anybody. I don't know how you can compare that to prayer at an NBA game (in that case I can concede there's an argument).

IT WAS A JOKE, PEOPLE!!!!!!!!

Just making a mockery of the whole 'Homosexual Agenda' silliness that I hear people going on about....which ironically I only hear from Christians.

Tough room.....

Sorry should have seen that. Problem is there are crazies on both sides and there are people on this board who would make that statement in all seriousness.

And you make a good argument there, BTW. Just subsitute "Christian" with gay in my statement. But the right-wingers want a double standard.

The trouble 'round here is that it's difficult to tell whether someone is kidding along those lines. Heck... not too many years ago, some might recall a certain group of folks who actually thought I was hostile to religion.

For the record, it's stupid people I'm hostile to, not religious people:sofa:

Good points, ECO. However, in all the years I've lived in Oklahoma (most of my life), not one person has ever come to my door to preach, sell their religion, or try to get me to convert. In fact, I ran into that in places NOT in the "bible belt", which I find a little amusing.

People complaining about the "Christian Agenda" just like to complain. Like you said, if they lived somewhere else, they'd be bitching about whatever regional issue resides there. And with it coming from SNSPoke, it has even less importance, as all he does is bitch about Oklahoma.

I get at least 3 "visits" per week. I can always count on an 8am doorbell ring pretty much every saturday..

If i *dare* to act annoyed at the fact that I've been woken up early saturday morning, I'm treated with the sort of regard you'd give someone who'd just taken a crap in your dining room..

Every weekday I come home to a front door with "Literature" crammed into the handle of my storm door.

My mailbox is crammed full of flyers and schedules.

So, with all due respect, excuse the EFF out of me for not wanting to have this crap shoved down my throat when I go to an NBA game I've paid to attend.

Do you live in Surrey Hills?

At any rate, you should relish the opportunity to screw with these people.

Also, isn't putting stuff in a mailbox a federal crime (unless you're a mailman?)??

So, with all due respect, excuse the EFF out of me for not wanting to have this crap shoved down my throat when I go to an NBA game I've paid to attend.

See, to me, having a prayer at a game is a completely different thing than having people come pester you at home. Being pestered at home is more akin to a telemarketing call at dinner time only worse, if that is possible. Getting irritated at that, I understand, especially if it happens all the time. Put a sign up on your door that proselytisers (sic) will go to hell or something.

I don't even see much of a connection between that and a pregame prayer. They may be the same general religion but probably they really don't resemble each other all that much when it comes down to it. A pregame prayer offers a tiny bit of social control. I wish they'd do that more at international soccer games. Something like, "Lord, help me to control my damned self after the game and not crush anyone in a mad rush to the field. And if I die in a crush, please take me straight to hell because I would deserve it for being stupid." Maybe that would help those idiots if they think about "What would Jesus do" if his team lost.

Do you live in Surrey Hills?

At any rate, you should relish the opportunity to screw with these people.

Also, isn't putting stuff in a mailbox a federal crime (unless you're a mailman?)??

Answer the door in a banana hammock. That should throw them off...

Answer the door in a banana hammock. That should throw them off...

Excellent choice.

If this was happening to me on a regular basis, I'd study up, let these folks into my home, then proceed to try and convert them to Catholicism. That'd probably get my house blacklisted eventually.:tiphat:

Off topic but.......would an administrator of this website please shoot me an email. I can't find anyplace on this site for an admin contact.

Thanks...

I get at least 3 "visits" per week.

That's absolutely bizarre. In 16 or years or so since moving back here, I think we've had Mormon's knock on the front door once, and maybe one other visit from the Jehovah's witnesses. That's it.

Do you have a big Darwin fish in your front window or something?

That's absolutely bizarre. In 16 or years or so since moving back here, I think we've had Mormon's knock on the front door once, and maybe one other visit from the Jehovah's witnesses. That's it.

Do you have a big Darwin fish in your front window or something?

I'd say we get one about every other week. We are in a newer neighborhood so maybe that's it.

The only Witness I can recall ever striking up a conversation with me in the 20+ years in this area was a chap at work last summer. Seemed a nice fellow, but as he took a new position elsewhere shortly after, we really dinna get into non-work matters very much at all.

Perhaps 3 LDS front porch visits, another two sidewalk visits, just because that's how the timing worked out. Lots of LDS Scouting buds over the years, but I guess in that setting it's more a masonic type gig, and since I wasn't asking, they weren't reaching out to impart their views.

Fuzzy, maybe you're just on a missionary scavenger hunt list - 100 points for engaging fuzzy more than 2 minutes ... 500 if you get invited in :)

I get at least 3 "visits" per week. I can always count on an 8am doorbell ring pretty much every saturday..

If i *dare* to act annoyed at the fact that I've been woken up early saturday morning, I'm treated with the sort of regard you'd give someone who'd just taken a crap in your dining room..

Every weekday I come home to a front door with "Literature" crammed into the handle of my storm door.

My mailbox is crammed full of flyers and schedules.

So, with all due respect, excuse the EFF out of me for not wanting to have this crap shoved down my throat when I go to an NBA game I've paid to attend.

Dude, easy. Grow a pair and tell the people to NOT come back to your door. Get a no solicitors sign. YOu're made the people bothering you at home; no need to take it out on something unrelated.

I'm still wanting some pie.

Dude, easy. Grow a pair and tell the people to NOT come back to your door. Get a no solicitors sign. YOu're made the people bothering you at home; no need to take it out on something unrelated.

told them to get lost.

got a sign

got another sign defining the word "solicitor" and its relationship to witnessing.


I'm not *just* mad at the people bothering me at home. I'm mad at the way Christians in Oklahoma expect to be treated better than everyone else, given more leeway to do whatever they want, and feel the need to whine like little children anytime anyone dares to question their faith and their incessent need to shove Christianity in our faces 24/7.

You're mad at people who just want to express themselves in public?

Gosh you're touchy.

whine like little children anytime anyone dares to question their faith



This is the only part of your post I agree with; the rest seems to be exaggerated a bit.

I'm still wanting some pie.

Apple is good...

Apple is good...

Especially when it's got the nice flaky crust on the bottom and a big heaping pile of vanilla ice cream on top. Maybe a touch of caramel.

i just can't stand it anymore. i've had it up to HERE with you pie-lovers.

it's like four times every weekday, i'll be sitting around enjoying a nice slice of cake and some apple pie-lover comes banging on my door trying to push their loser agenda. if that wasn't bad enough, the coconut cream witnesses cram their leaflets into my storm door no less than twenty-seven times each day of the weekend. i've woken up to marie callendar's coupons under my pillow. ummm.... creepy! don't even get me started on those WHACKOS who are into boston cream. what the HELL is boston cream, anyways? here's a hint, try to get some REASON.

don't get the wrong idea... i don't *just* hate the pie-loving knuckle-draggers who come to my door. it's as if ALL people who are into pie are given the LEEWAY to do whatever THEY want. you can't just go around eating pie WHEREVER YOU FEEL LIKE IT.

you wouldn't believe the sanctimonious stares i get when i tell these pie-proselytizers that maybe i don't care for pie so much and politely flip them the bird. and kick them down the stairs. and chase them down the street. if you enjoy pie, good for you but have the common decency to enjoy it in the privacy of your own home and NOT IN FRONT OF ME. QUIT TRYING TO SHOVE PIE DOWN MY THROAT, PEOPLE!!!!1111ONE!!1 really... i don't walk into pioneer pies and tell YOU to do the reasonable thing and eat cake. jerks.

-M

Oh horsefeathers! It's a free country and we can prosthelypies any where we want!

damn you and your prosthetic pies!!! get off my lawn! let me eat cake IN PEACE!

-M

Ever heard of Devil's Food Cake? Hmmmmm?

CAKE IS EVIL! It's corrupting our youth!

Cake and video games!

And Texas!

:ou

oh... just because there are some evil cakes out there, then all cake must be evil... stereotype much? ever heard of angelfood cake?

but, i digress... it's pie that is evil. cake knows its place. pie is a scourge that is creeping onto our dinner plate... chicken pot pie? shepherd's pie? where will it stop? soon pie will try to get it's filthy mitts on all three meals.

besides that... you know who else liked pie?

-M

Pfft, you baked-goods-eaters are funny. Baked-goods-eaters of all types - pies, cakes or even those cookie-eaters (who killed the pie messiah), are just kidding yourselves. Baked goods are the crutch for those who can't control their sweet tooth. Baked goods have been the root cause of most of the evil in the world. Remember the Sweet-N-Low crusades? Even in modern times IEPs (Improvised Expansive Pastries) are bloating up hundreds a day, all brought about by the baked goods mentality. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a proud fruit-eater. Let the sugar-induced hatred begin.

damn you and your prosthetic pies!!! get off my lawn! let me eat cake IN PEACE!

-M

Woah there buddy....I like cake too, just not as much....

Is that red velvet?

.... If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a proud fruit-eater. Let the sugar-induced hatred begin.

Hey...I eat fruit too. Hello...apple pie?

:LolLolLol

i just can't stand it anymore. i've had it up to HERE with you pie-lovers.

it's like four times every weekday, i'll be sitting around enjoying a nice slice of cake and some apple pie-lover comes banging on my door trying to push their loser agenda. if that wasn't bad enough, the coconut cream witnesses cram their leaflets into my storm door no less than twenty-seven times each day of the weekend. i've woken up to marie callendar's coupons under my pillow. ummm.... creepy! don't even get me started on those WHACKOS who are into boston cream. what the HELL is boston cream, anyways? here's a hint, try to get some REASON.

don't get the wrong idea... i don't *just* hate the pie-loving knuckle-draggers who come to my door. it's as if ALL people who are into pie are given the LEEWAY to do whatever THEY want. you can't just go around eating pie WHEREVER YOU FEEL LIKE IT.

you wouldn't believe the sanctimonious stares i get when i tell these pie-proselytizers that maybe i don't care for pie so much and politely flip them the bird. and kick them down the stairs. and chase them down the street. if you enjoy pie, good for you but have the common decency to enjoy it in the privacy of your own home and NOT IN FRONT OF ME. QUIT TRYING TO SHOVE PIE DOWN MY THROAT, PEOPLE!!!!1111ONE!!1 really... i don't walk into pioneer pies and tell YOU to do the reasonable thing and eat cake. jerks.

-M

:yourock::LolLolLol


And you know what's worse? These pie lovers are bringing pie into the schools! Bake sales, holiday parties, even the CAFETERIA!! They know that no God-fearing person would ever eat pie, so they have to recruit our children. It's disgusting.

I think it's safe to say that this is the most successful thread hijack in the history of threads....

Don't mess with the pie and cross churros.....

This whole situation reminds me back when I was in the geology school at OU and we were throwing a christmas party and 2 people out of the 100 +/- people who were invited didn't have the same beliefs and protested that we changed the title of it to a "Holliday Party" so they could feel comfortable.

If it offends you THAT MUCH, then just wait outside your repsective section until its over. its what the owners want to do. just let it go.

I don't see any protestors outside chick-fil-a every sunday because it closed because the owners think Sunday should be a day of rest. its what the owners want to do.

In my short 24 years of being alive, one of the big things I have learned that you can't please everyone.

* side note *

This is coming from someone who isnt even that religious. I used to go to church all the time when I was a child but when I left for college I stopped going and only go on hollidays.

This whole situation reminds me back when I was in the geology school at OU and we were throwing a christmas party and 2 people out of the 100 +/- people who were invited didn't have the same beliefs and protested that we changed the title of it to a "Holliday Party" so they could feel comfortable.

If it offends you THAT MUCH, then just wait outside your repsective section until its over. its what the owners want to do. just let it go.

I don't see any protestors outside chick-fil-a every sunday because it closed because the owners think Sunday should be a day of rest. its what the owners want to do.

In my short 24 years of being alive, one of the big things I have learned that you can't please everyone.

* side note *

This is coming from someone who isnt even that religious. I used to go to church all the time when I was a child but when I left for college I stopped going and only go on hollidays.

Those two out of a hundred probably just thought you didn't bring enough pie.


If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a proud fruit-eater. Let the sugar-induced hatred begin.

Whoah buddy... Do you have any idea how much sugar fruit has in it? I guess that just because it's "naturally occurring" it makes it okay?

There's nothing offensive about prayer, in my honest opinion. It's just sort of a bizarre aspect of human behavior. Stop and separate yourself from it for a moment and consider it's nothing more than self-theraputic, at best.

Praying always reminded me of people that go to the cemetery and 'chat' with deceased relatives. Is the person on the other end actually listening.....or are we doing it to feel better?

If one wants to pray in their home, church or funeral....super. I'm all for it. But praying at an athletic event is VERY strange, IMO.

Why don't we all just hold hands and have a group chat with Vince Lombardi while we're at it. Would make about as much sense.

If it bothers you, don't pray. I, personally, hate all the long drawn out introductions that people have to engage in before they get on with a speaking program. I don't walk out simply because I don't understand why they are necessary. I just endure them and wait for the main course.

And while you don't believe the dead hear you, it brings an enormous amount of comfort for many. I am surprised anyone would even "go" there. Seems darned uncharitable to ridicule some old widow lady who misses her husband and gets some comfort from talking to him while she tends his grave. For many people, the idea is that god is all around them - not just in church or their home or some place "approved" by nonbelievers.

Those two out of a hundred probably just thought you didn't bring enough pie....

Or maybe they were pie elitist...farging elitist....

Also, isn't putting stuff in a mailbox a federal crime (unless you're a mailman?)??

Yes.

Leave your pie on top of the mailbox, and, if you like, pray nothing happens to it. Or, maybe raise your hand for a prayer request at the next Thunder game.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/3122490840_0cccfa1d40.jpg

pie diver looks like he has some bad pcp ...
pumpkin creme pie, the killer dessert!