Okay so with all the talk about demolition, I also noticed Sunday afternoon work taking place on the building in the picture below labeled #1. Workers were taking down the blue metal siding and unveiling the original brick (in great shape BTW). This is the building on the corner, next door to Coney Island and Pizza House. It's a great retail location and directly across the street from the Montgomery. I wonder if this will come into play with Preftakes announcement or if someone is finally going to move in this underutilized spot.


http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/precor3.jpg

That's a Preftakes/Precor property, most recently a copy shop... I suppose they have moved out?

Before that, it was vacant for quite a while as I recall.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2730/R010018284001xA.jpg

I'd love to see a coffee shop or something similar in that location. We need something in that part of downtown.

i remember when they tore down the belle isle electric plant and everyone was in an uproar because of how few 100 year old buildings we have. besides the carpenter square theater, i would hate to see those building razed.

i remember when they tore down the belle isle electric plant and everyone was in an uproar because of how few 100 year old buildings we have. besides the carpenter square theater, i would hate to see those building razed.

Yeah, and look what we got to replace the Belle Isle power plant. One of the uglier strip malls in existence. That could have been an amazing retail/restaurant site. That's why I don't trust most developers to do anything more than what makes them money. There are obviously a few who care about aesthetics, but clearly not the majority.

There were MANY different people that looked at renovating Belle Isle, it was just too cost prohibitive to make it into something else, mostly due to the environmental remediation that would have to have been done after all those years of being a power plant and then sitting for so long. It wasn't just developers who looked at the building, I know that Benham looked into it around the time for lease renewal and came up with some outrageous numbers of what the cost would be, they just couldn't make it work numbers wise. I think that is what everyone who looked at it concluded.

Probably for retail to do well, they will have to be a little more diligent about panhandlers - when I parked over in Sheridan-Walker, they harassed anyone that walked that block and lived at the Montgomery pretty bad.

Every time I think about Belle Isle and watching it come down, I cringe when I think of Baltimore and what we could have turned it into...

http://www.mahoganyconstr.com/PowerPlant.jpg

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/pimages/store/photo/lg/2881.jpg

:::{ POWER PLANT LIVE }::: (http://www.powerplantlive.com/)

I was disgusted with what was built at the Belle Isle spot. I vividly remember the phrase "upscale retail" being used to sell OKC on the idea of demolishing Bell Islae Power Plant. Later when they began announcing the truly upscale tenants such as WalMart and Linens-N-Things, they tried to ease peoples bitter complaints by saying the architecture would be unlike any other big box center. They even said the new center would include architectural elements from the original building.

I realize it would have cost a great deal to renovate that old building. But many other cities have done more with less. I believe if the will were there, someone could have made the project work. Rather, our civic visionaries opted for a strip center with an expansive blacktop parking lot. Truly inspiring.

Look out Niemans, Saks, Nordstroms... we've got all the upscale retail we need here. We've got the Belle Isle strip center.

At least Aubrey is going to show us what upscale retail looks like with Classen Curve (I hope!). The Belle Isle strip mall is an affront to the eyes, and seeing the Baltimore site breaks my heart when I see what we could have done.

Again, no one wanted to pay for it because it would have cost so much. I gurantee that the Baltimore site wasn't in as poor of condition before it was reworked, and is probably in a better location for development. Bell Isle is still kind of akward in it's layout. It's nothing special now, just another walmart and some shops. But seriously, the cost of converting the power plant (even considering how cool it would have been) just was too high. Sometimes you have to think realisticlly and see that you can either leave it for another 100 years to be vandalized and unsafe, or go ahead and tear down what was never an aesthetically pleasing structure.

Look out Niemans, Saks, Nordstroms... we've got all the upscale retail we need here. We've got the Belle Isle strip center. Woo Hoo :laughing_ Funny, but sad so very sad, because it's true. I believe San Antonio has something similar called the Quarry. OKC's history is woulda, coulda and shoulda should be a lesson. Ah the price of mediocrity.

Again, no one wanted to pay for it because it would have cost so much. I gurantee that the Baltimore site wasn't in as poor of condition before it was reworked, and is probably in a better location for development. Bell Isle is still kind of akward in it's layout. It's nothing special now, just another walmart and some shops. But seriously, the cost of converting the power plant (even considering how cool it would have been) just was too high. Sometimes you have to think realisticlly and see that you can either leave it for another 100 years to be vandalized and unsafe, or go ahead and tear down what was never an aesthetically pleasing structure.

Cost to much, or declined a greedy developers potential profits by lying to citizens to tear the building down only to replace with WalMart and a Linens N Things that's going out of business, oh let's not forget a Moe's and Ross and Party Galaxy. Think of the potential we could have had like Baltimore and other cities by having this next to the regions most highest price per sq. ft. mall (Penn Sq.). We would have had a lot more upscale retail then we have now. Do you have ties to one of the developers of this strip mall? You keep defending them.

Yea...I have had the Belle Isle discussion with bomber before.

Good question.

Every time I think about Belle Isle and watching it come down, I cringe when I think of Baltimore and what we could have turned it into...
:::{ POWER PLANT LIVE }::: (http://www.powerplantlive.com/)
Comparing what is in Baltimore to Belle Isle is a bit absurd, The Power Plant is ONE block from the Inner Harbor, that would be like the Belle Isle Power Plant sitting where Toby Keith's restaurant is, if it would have been there the pro forma probably would have been able to support the renovation but sitting next to Penn Square Mall, it was just too much for any of the many people who tried to make the numbers work. As far as costing too much, the environmental remediation was into the many millions. Mostly due to the entire facility being full of asbestos and heavy contaminants from years of operating in environmental neglect, which pretty much all companies used to do back then when there was no concern for the environment.

The partial implosion woke me up that morning (I was living in The Village then). I hate what that area became and I know there were many in our office who wanted to do the project, after all how cool would it have been to have an office in there above the retail/restaurant levels....but it was just not economically feasible at that time.

Now, the way development money was flying around just a few years ago, I could see someone maybe getting redevelopment financing going for the project but then it could also have ended up a partially done project that would have a hard time getting finished. I know the current financing climate has caused people to question whether the Seaholm (http://www.seaholm.info/) project here (in Downtown Austin on the Colorado River/Lady Bird Lake) will really get going. It is much easier to make the pro forma work on an urban location than it is one out of the urban environment.

No folks I have absolutely no ties to the Bell Isle development, the power plant, anything up there. I agree with Bluedog, the Bell Isle area is in no way like that of Baltimore. It's like saying the Union Station in St. Louis is like ours....uh no.

The folks that keep talking about what could have been at that power plant just don't know what the realities of the structure were. Any one of the kids that went inside there and got hurt (those idiots) could tell you about what a poor state the building was in. And lets not forget that the building wasn't special either....it was a rectangle with a big green tube on top. Yeah, I would have LOOOOVED to have than hang around for another 100 years.

I couldn't have been more happy when that thing finally came down. If a Carl's Jr. would have gone in it's place, I would have been happy. Anything is better than it was. And I could take that anything statement pretty far. Do you realise how much of a bad image that structure gave visitors? Any time I would have relaitves come in town, if we ended up on that stretch of 44, that's the first thing out of their mouth, "what's that ugly thing?"

It's easy to look back and say, well we could have done this or that. But you know what, people WERE trying before it was imploded. Many many many people went through and tried. Not a single one was able to secure the financial backing for their proposals. But sure enough they got it for the shopping center. Yeah isn't nothing special, same as any other in any other city. But at least people get things they need or want, from stores that weren't in the area before.

They could have just added more of the same crap that's 2 miles away, but they didn't. Give them some credit for bringing in something that wasn't there before....and Linen n Things....who knew 5 years ago that they would go under? I'm sure your history-vision tells you now that they knew then huh.

It shouldnt be that big of surprise of what tenants that are there. Every new develpment is described as 'upscale' by every developer, even though it will have the same tenants as we are used to seeing. And although Classen Curve may look nice and 'upscale,' I dont think you will see any upscale tenants new the metro.

No folks I have absolutely no ties to the Bell Isle development, the power plant, anything up there. I agree with Bluedog, the Bell Isle area is in no way like that of Baltimore. It's like saying the Union Station in St. Louis is like ours....uh no.

The folks that keep talking about what could have been at that power plant just don't know what the realities of the structure were. Any one of the kids that went inside there and got hurt (those idiots) could tell you about what a poor state the building was in. And lets not forget that the building wasn't special either....it was a rectangle with a big green tube on top. Yeah, I would have LOOOOVED to have than hang around for another 100 years.

I couldn't have been more happy when that thing finally came down. If a Carl's Jr. would have gone in it's place, I would have been happy. Anything is better than it was. And I could take that anything statement pretty far. Do you realise how much of a bad image that structure gave visitors? Any time I would have relaitves come in town, if we ended up on that stretch of 44, that's the first thing out of their mouth, "what's that ugly thing?"

It's easy to look back and say, well we could have done this or that. But you know what, people WERE trying before it was imploded. Many many many people went through and tried. Not a single one was able to secure the financial backing for their proposals. But sure enough they got it for the shopping center. Yeah isn't nothing special, same as any other in any other city. But at least people get things they need or want, from stores that weren't in the area before.

They could have just added more of the same crap that's 2 miles away, but they didn't. Give them some credit for bringing in something that wasn't there before....and Linen n Things....who knew 5 years ago that they would go under? I'm sure your history-vision tells you now that they knew then huh.

You probably would have rather had Walgreens than the Gold Dome.

Yeah, in OKC the developers do what they want. Look at the most prime location in Bricktown for development the Centennial. They can't say they couldn't afford brick. They sold those condos for tons of money. They were just greedy. We need to say no to anything that is not up to standard. Otherwise we end up with mustard yellow buildings in bricktown and box stores on land that could have been grand.

Yeah, in OKC the developers do what they want. Look at the most prime location in Bricktown for development the Centennial. They can't say they couldn't afford brick. They sold those condos for tons of money. They were just greedy. We need to say no to anything that is not up to standard. Otherwise we end up with mustard yellow buildings in bricktown and box stores on land that could have been grand.

Or we may end up with nothing in its place. I don't know who you are, but I'm pretty sure you aren't intimately familiar with the finances of the developers in Bricktown. Those condos may have sold for tons of money, but neither you nor I know all the details of the construction costs, the prospective construction costs if they had gone with all brick, or any other costs involved. How much profit did they make in the end? You can't tell me with any degree of accuracy. All brick may very well have not been profitable, and I don't expect developers to build things out of the goodness of their hearts.

I'm a little tired of the backseat driving going on here. Is lower Bricktown exactly as I would have made it? Nope. Is it exactly how you would have made it? Probably not. But one of the priveleges of actually taking the risk and investing your own money is that you get to build something the way you want it.

And although Classen Curve may look nice and 'upscale,' I dont think you will see any upscale tenants new the metro.

I think you're wrong on that, even though most upscale retailers probably aren't looking to expand right now. Classen Curve isn't going to house Applebee's and Office Depot.

I really hope for a Tinseltown Type place very near Nichols Hills, or a water park near there.


Ok I wasn't serious .The Hillbillies would freak out.

Again, no one wanted to pay for it because it would have cost so much. . . . . But seriously, the cost of converting the power plant (even considering how cool it would have been) just was too high. Sometimes you have to think realisticlly and see that you can either leave it for another 100 years to be vandalized and unsafe, or go ahead and tear down what was never an aesthetically pleasing structure.

The Bel Isle power plant property changed hands several times before it finally fell into the hands of the present low rent strip mall developers. What now stands on that very valuable site is a disgrace, and using the Bel Isle name is just a poke in the eye to those that tried to prevent the power plant building from being demolished.

The problem was timing and getting former Oklahoma City Public Works director Paul Brum to finally extend Classen Drive, thereby providing good access and viability. Nothing happened until the road work was done. A lot of OKC unique character went down with the power plant. Not being developed appropriately into the upscale mixed use project it should and could have been was just laziness and more due to a lack of creativity than a lack of financing.

Look at what is being done adjacent to Utica Square in Tulsa for an example of what could have taken place on the Bel Isle property.

Paul Brum was a BIG part of the development problem in OKC, how he was allowed to wield the power that he did for so long is beyond me.

The only saving grace is what is built at Belle Isle now is at best "disposable construction", so tearing down what is there now shouldn't be an issue in the future for something nice to be done. There have been areas redeveloped like that all over the country.

It would be a great spot--maybe the best spot--for a mixed use development like The Domain, don't you think bluedog?

that shopping center is stupid, the walmart is ultra-ghetto and the fact that it isn't connected to the Penn Square parking lot is retarded (and I mean that in a bad way)

Huge retail center set for Belle Isle | Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City) | Find Articles at BNET (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_19990120/ai_n10126961)

Belle Isle is a superb bit of ammo for Tulsans (not to mention, Seattle and Dallas folks) when they bag on OKC --
Very very non-big league.

Well there was no overpromising in that article. The tenants they listed are exactly what we got.


the fact that it isn't connected to the Penn Square parking lot is retarded (and I mean that in a bad way)



So true. I tried to walk to Penn Square from Walmart once after dropping my car off for an oil change. They really REALLY don't want you walking between the two shopping centers. All it would take is a pedestrian bridge over that concrete ditch.

Hey Cuatro - you're wrong. I wanted the dome. Why don't you stop assuming you know what I'm thinking. It might save you time and energy.

I've always thought it was incredibly stupid that they don't connect either. And what's all that about not being able to get from Penn to Bell Isle but you can the other way. WTF? Ok so there's a storm channel there....so what. Build a bridge and connect the lots.

Hey Cuatro - you're wrong. I wanted the dome. Why don't you stop assuming you know what I'm thinking. It might save you time and energy.

Oh trust me...compared with the effort of addressing wrongheadedness of your post, typing one line saved me much time and energy.

Something similar to that concept is what I sketched for there off/on over the years. I think it would be a great complement to the mall and what should have been done instead of what is there currently. I wish some actual planning had gone into that whole area on both sides of the overpass from NW Highway/Classen to Penn Square Mall, especially now with other properties on the market. What they put in there was patchwork at best, as far as connecting together, I don't think the mall people wanted it connected. That would be a different case if someone like Simon had control of the whole area including the mall.

I think that The Domain is a bit too "high-end" right now, it needs some real stores/restaurants in there instead of $20 a meal sit down only places. Right now construction has made it a mess, there are something like five different contractors building there right now, Beck and the Simon building group is on our floor. Beck is doing the phase with the Dillards and the Dick's Sporting Goods and the hotel has started and the Nordstrom's that is forcing my current project into the new space that we are doing since their old space is being torn down.