jbrown,

1) I don't need a google map to see the lot I drive thru every week. I could sketch it out in my sleep and get pretty close on the measurments. You still have not acknowledged that the additional load on that side of the lot may be better addressed by rebuilding the other sides and essentially balancing the load of traffic.

2) The fact that strip malls may not have stores you speak of certainly does not justify calling them "crappy", you know?

3) The only idea(s) you have proposed are ones that involve expansion of the one garage. I have suggested more diversity on the issue.

I've been in Penn Square twice in the year and a half that we have lived here and that was twice too often. The parking is horrendous. I would say a parking garage (at least 5 stories) on the nw side closest to the Cheesecake factory would be a big help.

Most of those exclusive stores in Penn Square would not move to a "traditional" strip mall, that just isn't in their demographic. What they would possibly move to is a lifestyle center type of mall like The Domain (http://www.thedomainaustin.com/) here in Austin where our offices are located, it is strictly a high-end mall, there were many new "brand" stores that opened up there and have no other locations in the Austin metro area. The cheapest place to eat there is the California Pizza Kitchen. I can tell you already that parking isn't the greatest and it was opened about a year and a half ago, granted much of that is due to all of the construction going on right now. Luckily I am leaving for the day when the parking lots start to fill. If the one north of Quail Springs gets built and is marketed the same way that Simon marketed The Domain, I could see them moving at that point.

You also have the issue that many people object walking more than 20 feet to get to anything, go to any popular strip or big-box mall during the Christmas season and most of the time you will be walking just as far to get to one of those stores as you would to get into the mall. The problem is more about perception than reality.

southernskye,

A parking garage in the NW corner would separate the traffic loads enough, so that would definitely help. Do you think the NW corner would be too far to walk as opposed to building one in the SE or S side? I suppose if it was close enough to the mall.

You also have the issue that many people object walking more than 20 feet to get to anything, go to any popular strip or big-box mall during the Christmas season and most of the time you will be walking just as far to get to one of those stores as you would to get into the mall. The problem is more about perception than reality.

Exactly!


2) The fact that strip malls may not have stores you speak of certainly does not justify calling them "crappy", you know?

The only "strip mall" in the metro that comes close in quality of construction is Spring Creek in Edmond, and that's why it's the only other place you'll find Ann Taylor, White House Black Market, Jos. A Bank, etc.

There are very few that come close, and the other 90% are indeed, crappy. And I'm not talking about the stores. I'm talking about building materials, aesthetics, pedestrian friendliness, etc.

There again, if your opinion is that the other 90% are "Crappy" then that is fine, just dont be surprised to see others disagree.

For me, I consider a place that doesn't look run down and is halfway easy to park and get in/out of to be "not crappy". The trend around here has seen many of the strip malls refurb'd/repainted and they have done a decent job.

Tell me something, you referred to Spring Creek in Edmond as really the only decent strip mall that those stores might go to. What is so different between the shops in Spring Creek and what they are finishing up at 33rd and Broadway in Edmond? Just curious, because to me they are built roughly the same except for the style and the trees around spring creek. And I was born and grew up in Edmond, so I've definitely experienced it both ways.

The new development on the old Wal-Mart site there is pretty nice, but it's still anchored by Hobby Lobby.

It would fall under those that come close to Spring Creek, imo.

southernskye,

A parking garage in the NW corner would separate the traffic loads enough, so that would definitely help. Do you think the NW corner would be too far to walk as opposed to building one in the SE or S side? I suppose if it was close enough to the mall.

I guess that would depend on your perspective, it seems to me people in OKC hate to walk anywhere.

The SE corner is way too congested with all the traffic comimg in from nw highway.

The only real parking problems at Penn Square are for those people that insist on circling the front parking lots looking for close up places to park. I went this past weekend, the busiest shopping weekend of the year, and went back to the NE corner to the parking garage, and there wasn't a parking problem at all. The garage had tons of empty spots available. Problem is, no one bothers to go back there to even look. They instead, insist of fighting for parking spaces in the front of the mall. When I go to Penn, I never even waste my time with the surface lots anymore. I go immediately to the parking garage, and I always get in and out in 5-10 minutes. I think parking in the garage actually puts me closer to the stores and gives me a shorter walk, because the garage is connected to JC Penney, Macy's, and the mall entrance by the theater. I don't see the problem.

Actually, the parking situation at Penn is better now then it was several years ago. They now have 2 entrances off NW Expressway, one from Belle Isle Station, and the far NW entrace/exit. About 10 years ago, all they had was the main south entrance and two entrances off of Penn. Traffic was far worse then, then it is now. I remember in the 90's it taking over an hour to get out of the parking lot. Now, I just park in the garage, and then head for that NW exit, and I never have a problem getting out.

Well, I live right across the street from the place and have been going there steadily for over 20 years. I can say that their parking issues have not "gotten better".

I just went there this last wednesday (during the day too when things are slower) and the place was jam packed. The parking garage was full...I went thru the whole thing, top to bottom. I usually try there first anyways. I finally got a space when someone left the new restaurant out front. Went to quail & crossroads and had zero parking issues. Crossroads was and should have been easy due to it's fading away, but Quail was very easy to get in and out of.

It's not hard to figure out...they just need to make more efficient use of space. If that means doing another garage, so be it. Whatever the case, it should not be that hard to get in in the middle of a work/school non-holiday.

Well, I live right across the street from the place and have been going there steadily for over 20 years. I can say that their parking issues have not "gotten better".

If you truely live "right across the street", you can avoid the parking situation altogether.....walk!


I just went there this last wednesday (during the day too when things are slower) and the place was jam packed.

It's Christmas! The mall is supposed to be jam packed.


The parking garage was full...I went thru the whole thing, top to bottom. I usually try there first anyways. I finally got a space when someone left the new restaurant out front.

I talked to Bob Landdeck, mall manager, about this, and he told me that security tells him that the north end of the parking garage has been empty the entire season thus far, mostly on the down ramps. It was also completely empty this past weekend when I went. So, I think he's telling me the truth.


Went to quail & crossroads and had zero parking issues. Crossroads was and should have been easy due to it's fading away, but Quail was very easy to get in and out of.

Quail has plenty of land around it, as does Crossroads, so you shouldn't have any parking problems there. But, expect to walk along ways from the outskirts of those surface lots.


It's not hard to figure out...they just need to make more efficient use of space. If that means doing another garage, so be it. Whatever the case, it should not be that hard to get in in the middle of a work/school non-holiday.

I bet you're the same person that thinks there's a parking problem in Bricktown. Boy, what would you think if Penn Square charged for parking? You know, a lot of the malls in LA charged for parking when I went there last year. I think at both The Grove and the Beverly Center, they charged at least $5 for parking.

If you truely live "right across the street", you can avoid the parking situation altogether.....walk!

That's the spirit! I should walk so you can have a place to park. Nice attitude! :Smiley199


It's Christmas! The mall is supposed to be jam packed.

That's what I thought too.


I talked to Bob Landdeck, mall manager, about this, and he told me that security tells him that the north end of the parking garage has been empty the entire season thus far, mostly on the down ramps. It was also completely empty this past weekend when I went. So, I think he's telling me the truth.

My friends and I were driving through with blinders on for the heck of it. I'm getting better at driving blind.



Quail has plenty of land around it, as does Crossroads, so you shouldn't have any parking problems there. But, expect to walk along ways from the outskirts of those surface lots.

We parked about 20 feet from the door, in the first few spaces of the aisle.


I bet you're the same person that thinks there's a parking problem in Bricktown. Boy, what would you think if Penn Square charged for parking? You know, a lot of the malls in LA charged for parking when I went there last year. I think at both The Grove and the Beverly Center, they charged at least $5 for parking.

Funny thing, that is. I spend a decent amount of time in L.A. each year, and the few times I have ever had to pay to park, it was for the convenience of parking right behind the establishment I was going to. Not paying for the convenience of walking a mile.


Merry Christmas!

We parked about 20 feet from the door, in the first few spaces of the aisle

After you drove around for 30 minutes??

Nope. At Quail we came right into the lot and parked right up front there on the west side of JC Penney's--up against that edge wall of trees on the west side. No waiting, no driving around. The mall was pretty packed, but the traffic load was spread out, so that was definitely a helpful thing.

I get parking spots at Penn quite easily. I just drive to the parking lot, park in a spot. Then I god forbid walk to the mall. Sometimes it's even a long walk. Having lived in a city where walking was the norm(DC) it's not exactly as devastating of a concept to me as it seems to be to everyone else.

It's the same complaint with any area where there's urban density. Same complaint as downtown. There are plenty of places to park, people just complain about the walk. For those that like the urban sprawl of Quail Springs, that's fine. I actually shop there too....I try to shop at all the malls, except Crossroads. And unfortunately, I live in one of those suburban areas, but not by my choice.

You know, where you get to park depends not only only what time of year, but also on what time of day and also on sheer luck. People who get those primo spots near the doors do eventually leave and others happen along just at the right time.

I will say that those who manage parking often will say there are plenty of available spaces, while those who are actually trying to use the spaces can't seem to find them. So is there a problem? I'd say there is a problem. Your parking spaces aren't in places where people are looking for them. It's not always about not wanting to walk. Sometimes it's about practicality.

I'll throw this out as an example: universities are notorious for having bad parking, but they are also notorious for having parking directors who say "we have plenty of parking," even when no one can find these parking spaces they are being told exist. For a long time, I believed the hype about all these mythical parking spaces because I had personally never experienced this "parking shortage" for myself. I just told people they needed to plan ahead, get there earlier, and look around. Then I signed up for an early morning class that met off campus, followed by another class that did meet on campus. I discovered very quickly that you can't hunt for the mythical parking spaces, find a bus, and still make it to class on time. I actually had to drop a class because of mythical parking.

Now admittedly, shopping at the mall is not the same as taking college classes, but if you have a lot of shopping and are carrying a lot of bags or packages, it can be extremely difficult, if not impossible (for some folks) to do that much walking, especially if some of the items are heavy. Not everyone with walking difficulties has such difficulty that they qualify for an ADA placard for their vehicle. So walk if you can find the mythical spaces, but seriously...it's not feasible for everyone.

Why not park as far from the building/mall as possible and walk, that way you kill two birds with one stone, shopping and exercise.

Go try it.

I didn't say a word...

I usually go to Penn Square twice the max each year. I think for 2008 was only one time a few days before Christmas.

I always enter on the west side from Penn (south side of Cheesecake Factory). The parking space for the west-most entrance of the mall is fine for me. I always park there.

Is Penn Square charging Cheesecake Factory skyhigh on rent?