I could see pushing it up maybe another 20-30 ft., but other than that, there are a couple empty spaces in the back which could eventually be developed.

If the same folks own the land that own the hotel, it may be used for a future expansion?

I will say, as far as my own opinion, it seems this "brick on the first 3 floors and stucco on the top floors" is starting to get a little redundant across the bricktown and I-40/Meridian zone.

This development is in neither location, for what it's worth.

This development is in neither location, for what it's worth.

I think we are all aware of that.

OK. It wasn't clear to me from your post. Probably a reading comprehension issue on my end.

Its fine. I was just making the statement that so many of the new hotels built in OKC have that same architectural look (some obvious exceptions).

While i understand there are those of you who want to turn the entire HSC - TO -Downtown district as up-to-the-curb urban, but i just dont see that as necessary in this location. While not suburban, its not an urban area either. I can see pushing the structure right up to the corner and putting parking and access in the back, this is a nice design and nothing wrong with it.

This area should be walkable just like the rest of downtown and this development doesn't really foster any type of walkability. I think that's everyone's main point.

This area should be walkable just like the rest of downtown and this development doesn't really foster any type of walkability. I think that's everyone's main point.

Yeah. For those that say this shouldn't be like downtown, because it's not downtown... it most certainly is downtown. I dislike the notion that we should proceed forward as if nothing has changed about the urban/suburban nature of development in OKC. The HSC area has massive potential to be much more dense, but people seem to be resolved to letting it suburbanize itself.

While i understand there are those of you who want to turn the entire HSC - TO -Downtown district as up-to-the-curb urban, but i just dont see that as necessary in this location. While not suburban, its not an urban area either. I can see pushing the structure right up to the corner and putting parking and access in the back, this is a nice design and nothing wrong with it.

But it is an urban area because the HSC is part of downtown. And the whole area could be much more if the standards were higher. But your post, IMO, signifies part of the problem I want to see overcome. It's a nice design with nothing wrong with it, so it's all okay and we should all be satisfied with the project. But it's disappointing. That area has a tremendous amount of potential, but we settle with for okay when we should be pushing for great. It reminds me of Urbanized's saying "Better than crappy makes us happy." This hotel isn't crappy per se, but it's far from what it could have (and again, IMO should have) been.

LOL for the record I stole that phrase from a longtime Main Street manager who also served as the first executive director of Downtown OKC Inc., Devery Youngblood. I have no idea who HE stole it from, but it IS a good one...

But it is an urban area because the HSC is part of downtown. And the whole area could be much more if the standards were higher. But your post, IMO, signifies part of the problem I want to see overcome. It's a nice design with nothing wrong with it, so it's all okay and we should all be satisfied with the project. But it's disappointing. That area has a tremendous amount of potential, but we settle with for okay when we should be pushing for great. It reminds me of Urbanized's saying "Better than crappy makes us happy." This hotel isn't crappy per se, but it's far from what it could have (and again, IMO should have) been.

Ditto.

But it is an urban area because the HSC is part of downtown. And the whole area could be much more if the standards were higher. But your post, IMO, signifies part of the problem I want to see overcome. It's a nice design with nothing wrong with it, so it's all okay and we should all be satisfied with the project. But it's disappointing. That area has a tremendous amount of potential, but we settle with for okay when we should be pushing for great. It reminds me of Urbanized's saying "Better than crappy makes us happy." This hotel isn't crappy per se, but it's far from what it could have (and again, IMO should have) been.That's pretty subjective. If ever see you and you aren't in a Bugatti Veyron, you accepted something better than crappy and it made you happy lol jk ;)

That's pretty subjective. If ever see you and you aren't in a Bugatti Veyron, you accepted something better than crappy and it made you happy lol jk ;)

Good point, but what there's a substantial cost difference between my dream car and my real-world car. When there isn't I'll be ashamed to not be driving my dream car.

Well, the point I was really making is some might not think it is just better than crappy and might love it. My beef with it is the open land in the back, but I hope it will be developed soon.

Well, the point I was really making is some might not think it is just better than crappy and might love it. My beef with it is the open land in the back, but I hope it will be developed soon.

The open land at the back will take the most time to develop, because the street behind is residential, and no commercial entity is likely to pursue building something back there until a long time from now.

A hotel placed in the HSC is there mainly for families with loved ones in one of the hospitals. Many have enormous pressures on them due to health problems and only want to go back to a hotel that gives them a sense of comfort, safety and ease of life. Many patrons may have children in tow. Most of the customers are from the general region and not from NYC, Chicago, LA or even Tulsa but Idabel, Guymon, Sulphur or Ulysses, KS. I see the Embassy design as more open, welcoming and warm. Its more inviting than an urban structure like a Marriott Marquis or a Denver Convention Center Hyatt. A purely urban design could seem less safe or comfortable to people with cancer or loved ones with injuries or illnesses. Finally, the HSC, while not suburban like Edmond is not downtown "urban" either. If you look at the setting of the Parkland, UT Southwest area in Dallas, its only slightly more intensely built. The Embassy in that area would fit in---though would likely be bigger

A hotel placed in the HSC is there mainly for families with loved ones in one of the hospitals. Many have enormous pressures on them due to health problems and only want to go back to a hotel that gives them a sense of comfort, safety and ease of life. Many patrons may have children in tow. Most of the customers are from the general region and not from NYC, Chicago, LA or even Tulsa but Idabel, Guymon, Sulphur or Ulysses, KS. I see the Embassy design as more open, welcoming and warm. Its more inviting than an urban structure like a Marriott Marquis or a Denver Convention Center Hyatt. A purely urban design could seem less safe or comfortable to people with cancer or loved ones with injuries or illnesses. Finally, the HSC, while not suburban like Edmond is not downtown "urban" either. If you look at the setting of the Parkland, UT Southwest area in Dallas, its only slightly more intensely built. The Embassy in that area would fit in---though would likely be bigger

It's not downtown urban because we don't have the standards in place where they should have been. It should be downtown urban because it's downtown. And it is not just for patients and their families, but also business people coming to the area to visit the research park or any of the other entities in that area. This is a bad design.

Snapped these this afternoon. First picture is looking towards the west, then looking south from the street, then the third is looking east.



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/7020d1395068611-embassy-suites-emb031414a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/7021d1395068611-embassy-suites-emb031414b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/7022d1395068612-embassy-suites-emb031414c.jpg

I must admit, for some reason I thought the building was facing 10th, not the side street, as it actually does... makes it feel even more odd.

It's not downtown urban because we don't have the standards in place where they should have been. It should be downtown urban because it's downtown. And it is not just for patients and their families, but also business people coming to the area to visit the research park or any of the other entities in that area. This is a bad design.

I have given up on everything east of I-235. Future generations are going to have to deal with that problem. Along time ago I proposed OKC urban core to be defined as everything inside I-240/I-35/I-44 but in light of recent development standards at the Medical Center (Kids Corral, Embassy Suites, OAIP, and GE) it should probably be I-240/I-35/I-235/I-44. With the business and land owners in this area deciding to not go with urban development standards I will oppose any extension of the streetcar east of I-235.

I have given up on everything east of I-235. Future generations are going to have to deal with that problem. Along time ago I proposed OKC urban core to be defined as everything inside I-240/I-35/I-44 but in light of recent development standards at the Medical Center (Kids Corral, Embassy Suites, OAIP, and GE) it should probably be I-240/I-35/I-235/I-44.

The Health Sciences area just needs too much work to make it conform to new urbanist standards and to do so is simply not economically feasible. That doesn't mean it can't be improved. It will however never be a walkable, urban environment. Nonetheless, this hotel seems far more appropriate for out on Memorial than this close to downtown.

The Health Sciences area just needs too much work to make it conform to new urbanist standards and to do so is simply not economically feasible. That doesn't mean it can't be improved. It will however never be a walkable, urban environment. Nonetheless, this hotel seems far more appropriate for out on Memorial than this close to downtown.

I abhor this mindset. We should never, ever relegate something by saying "it will never be..." That's ridiculous.

And, since I live in Lincoln Terrace, I never want that to be an acceptable mindset for any future development, lest JTF's statement, above, about opposing streetcar extension into the area, take hold among other people.

The Health Sciences area just needs too much work to make it conform to new urbanist standards and to do so is simply not economically feasible. That doesn't mean it can't be improved. It will however never be a walkable, urban environment. Nonetheless, this hotel seems far more appropriate for out on Memorial than this close to downtown.

It may not be the most walker friendly area but lots of people do walk in the area. The speed limits are slow, there's plenty of well kept sidewalks and the crosswalks are pretty safe. As far as it not being urban, it was never designed to be that way. When the area first started to be developed as a health center, there was lots of open land and it wasn't considered to be downtown or urban at that time. It's unurban style now is because of its history of not being seen as urban.

It may not be the most walker friendly area but lots of people do walk in the area. The speed limits are slow, there's plenty of well kept sidewalks and the crosswalks are pretty safe. As far as it not being urban, it was never designed to be that way. When the area first started to be developed as a health center, there was lots of open land and it wasn't considered to be downtown or urban at that time. It's unurban style now is because of its history of not being seen as urban.

Agree. Despite not being walkable in the new urbanist sense, it is one of the better sidewalked area of the city. I also think the streetcar will be a perfect fit in the area despite not being "urban."

Personally I see OUHSC as being similar in nature to a college campus, which is not in itself inappropriate. I think a few things could be done here and there to make major corridors more walkable (both from an accessibility and a "makes me want to walk") standpoint - the hotel was a missed opportunity in this respect - and I think it would be a vast improvement and a good connection between downtown and Lincoln Terrace/Capitol complex.

Personally I see OUHSC as being similar in nature to a college campus, which is not in itself inappropriate. I think a few things could be done here and there to make major corridors more walkable (both from an accessibility and a "makes me want to walk") standpoint - the hotel was a missed opportunity in this respect - and I think it would be a vast improvement and a good connection between downtown and Lincoln Terrace/Capitol complex.

Yep. The whole Health Science are and the Capitol corridor up Lincoln could use some different treatments to promote connections.

7412

Snapped this yesterday while at the gym looking across 8th.

As this thing goes up, it just reinforces what a colossal waste of space their layout is. Absolute shame that this was allowed to be situated like this.

Snapped this yesterday while at the gym looking across 8th.


Thank you very much!

My pleasure, love the board - long time lurker, infrequent/timid poster. :)

Welcome don't be timid, feel free to call em as you see em!

My pleasure, love the board - long time lurker, infrequent/timid poster. :)

I used to be timid. I started posting more when I finally met everyone though.

6/4/2014

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There also this dirt work going on I have no idea about right across from the hotel on 7th and Phillips
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/10373061_10203049445069576_8264588294506165921_o.j pg

8639

Another snap from the gym yesterday looking across 8th.

I really hate how this project has turned out in terms of utilization of the lot it's on.

I really hate how this project has turned out in terms of utilization of the lot it's on.

Yes, but we knew that going in. Just remember, there is value in "I told you so".

8639

Another snap from the gym yesterday looking across 8th.

And you know people will drive from the parking lot at the hotel to the parking lot in the foreground. What a waste.

Interestingly, this project is by the otherwise stellar Midtown Renaissance group.

Wow. That's surprising...

Wasn't there talk of some other development going on in the area around it later? Or am I making that up?

I personally don't have any issues with this. The Health Sciences area is so far from urban standards already as it is and its unlikely that it will ever get there. This fits in well with everything around it.

This building is great. The more I see it, the more I like it.

Wasn't there talk of some other development going on in the area around it later? Or am I making that up?

None that I'm aware of.

I personally don't have any issues with this. The Health Sciences area is so far from urban standards already as it is and its unlikely that it will ever get there. This fits in well with everything around it.

This is true. When the HSC was first being developed in the early 70s, it was not developed with an urban aesthetic in mind.

This is true. When the HSC was first being developed in the early 70s, it was not developed with an urban aesthetic in mind.

STOP IT. Stop thinking that with that mindset. This area can, and should, develop more urban in the future.

STOP IT. Stop thinking that with that mindset. This area can, and should, develop more urban in the future.what is the problem here? The place is very walkable. I walk and bike through there all the time. Some places need sidewalks, but lord almighty, not everything has to be urban.

STOP IT. Stop thinking that with that mindset. This area can, and should, develop more urban in the future.

The HSC is what it is.

How and why should the HSC be retrofitted to urbanist standards? What would be the economic point in doing so? I am all for enforcing urbanist standards in already existing urban districts as well as others like Core2Shore that are envisioned to be urban, but the HSC, despite being in the core, might as well be on Memorial from an urbanism perspective.

This isn't "everything." It's a chance to develop a district that is within one mile of downtown. No one said everything has to be urban, but I'll say that this should be.

What a missed opportunity that Midtown Renaissance had here. In 80 years, no one will want to do for this location what they have done for so many formerly, and now again, great buildings.

what is the problem here? The place is very walkable. I walk and bike through there all the time. Some places need sidewalks, but lord almighty, not everything has to be urban.

+1

The biggest issue is that this area is not part of an urban design district, even though it is very much an urban district.

Unfortunately, it's pretty clear that unless forced, local developers are content with massive setbacks and oceans of surface parking.

This isn't "everything." It's a chance to develop a district that is within one mile of downtown. No one said everything has to be urban, but I'll say that this should be.

What a missed opportunity that Midtown Renaissance had here. In 80 years, no one will want to do for this location what they have done for so many formerly, and now again, great buildings.Let ask though, what exactly do you not like about building? It is set back a little ways, but it seems to me those large two lots behind it can eventually be developed. The surface parking will eventually be developed, won't it? I'm not worried about it. I'm sure this area will become more urban as time goes, but it is a very nice area and we are very lucky to have it.

Let ask though, what exactly do you not like about building? It is set back a little ways, but it seems to me those large two lots behind it can eventually be developed. The surface parking will eventually be developed, won't it? I'm not worried about it. I'm sure this area will become more urban as time goes, but it is a very nice area and we are very lucky to have it.

I agree.

The HSC is what it is.

How and why should the HSC be retrofitted to urbanist standards? What would be the economic point in doing so? I am all for enforcing urbanist standards in already existing urban districts as well as others like Core2Shore that are envisioned to be urban, but the HSC, despite being in the core, might as well be on Memorial from an urbanism perspective.

How: Slowly, by implementing standards on new development, such as this hotel, Toby Kieth's Kids, the GE lab, etc. To say that we should give up because some stuff is already there is silly.
Why: Because it's the responsible, long term approach to development.

How: Slowly, by implementing standards on new development, such as this hotel, Toby Kieth's Kids, the GE lab, etc. To say that we should give up because some stuff is already there is silly.
Why: Because it's the responsible, long term approach to development.

Yep.

Especially since we are trying to link this area and all it's jobs to the rest of the urban core in various ways, including the streetcar.

Right now, the buildings are so far apart and set back from the roads, you'd have to have the streetcar stop at almost every building; or at the very least, people are going to have to walk very long distances to and from their destination, which means they are far less likely to use it.


There are a million reasons to employ responsible urban design methods to urban districts. We don't need to rehash that here.

7412

Snapped this yesterday while at the gym looking across 8th.

Passed through the Health Science Center area today; they are almost finished with the new Embassy Suites. It will be a great addition to the area especially with OU Medical Center, Children's' Hospital, VA Hospital and the PHF Research Park in the area.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/embassywiki1.jpg

They are building the new nine story ($58 million) OU College of Medicine, it is beginning to tower up with the two main pillar structures in place.

https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10978_10203552911735928_855980983297235759_n.jpg?o h=18891bd662b5cfb02005702fc08ccff4&oe=546FA6B2

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ouadminwiki1.jpg

Let's hope the street car can penetrate the OU Medical Center area; the street congestion near the VA, OU Medical Center, Children's Hospital and a number of buildings in that area is a rough travel.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Just learned their opening is set for January 27th, 2015.

Driving by, that Embassy Suites is a colossal misuse of land and possibilities. I'm really surprised that a group that does such incredible work downtown could fail so badly with the land use for this hotel.

Driving by, that Embassy Suites is a colossal misuse of land and possibilities. I'm really surprised that a group that does such incredible work downtown could fail so badly with the land use for this hotel.

We'll live with the results of the Health Science Center Area.

The area has real potential since OU Medical took over the PHF research park. PHF is responsible for more than $100 million in medical education and research in Oklahoma.

Driving by, that Embassy Suites is a colossal misuse of land and possibilities. I'm really surprised that a group that does such incredible work downtown could fail so badly with the land use for this hotel.

Yep, but keep in mind that they started the design before they really had a handle on what good, urban design could be.

Yep, but keep in mind that they started the design before they really had a handle on what good, urban design could be.

I have no reason to doubt you, cafeboeuf, but hadn't they already been working on other projects before this started? Maybe I'm remembering it incorrectly, but wasn't this one of their more recent projects to break ground? Were they working off old designs?