Yeah, I'd be comfortable with saying she may be crazy too. One of the things I'm often hired to do is videotape depositions. I've actually covered several depositions of DHS employees and I'd characterize many of them as wackjobs. So you say that DHS employees are crazy but yet you think these crazy people as you call them are capable of making decisions that are in the best interest of children? So which is it are they good people doing a good job or crazy people doing a bad job sorry you can't have it both ways.

This man killed himself and his family is suffering. There is nothing to suggest he was anything other than a good person. As far as I am concerned, you ought to be ashamed of yourself for spreading these types of hateful rumors. Piling on to their pain is disgusting. You need to get a life. You are so fixated on your cause that you have lost sight of reality. We aren't discussing my case we are discussing DHS in general this man was obviously in a lot of pain and he also hired a lawyer because he was being harassed by the very company he works for not a good way to treat your employees of 30 years of course that is just my opinion. I don't believe in being mean to good people.

Recently, didn't you suggest that DHS had hitmen? No I never said DHS had hitman could you please show me the post where I supposedly said that.

Here is another comment from a long time employee of DHS in their own words.
" I believe that after so much illegal, unethical conduct has gone on where one lie is piled on top of another and upper management either condoned and/or ignored it out of fear of repercussions, incompetence, laziness or unwillingness to get their hands dirty that they have all marched too far down the road and to save their skins,literally, they all must maintain the cover up."

Everything is about DHS and dead babies with you. Go back through your history of posts. You sound like a nutter. What happened to you to make you so insane? Do you realize that an online forum doesn't have the capability of changing anything? I know what I have just said is totally pointless and lost on deaf ears...but...I just can't look away and I can't just not say anything.

Everything is about DHS and dead babies with you. Go back through your history of posts. You sound like a nutter. What happened to you to make you so insane? Do you realize that an online forum doesn't have the capability of changing anything? I know what I have just said is totally pointless and lost on deaf ears...but...I just can't look away and I can't just not say anything. I guess you didn't read the title of this thread. This is not really the place to discuss the latest restaurant etc. if I want to comment on that sort of thing then I need to go to another thread for that. This however is the thread for discussing children who have died because of DHS and their mistakes. I suggest if you don't like the topic then help put a stop to the problem then I wouldn't have anything to post about on this thread. How is that for an idea let's all of us ban together and fix the problem?

I know I have said this before but I guess it got passed over like everything else I say. This is not about me it is about the children attacking me will not make the problem go away and pretending the problem does not exist will not fix it. I know I have mentioned this quote before but I can see it needs to be repeated.
"When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken, or cease to be honest." Now it is up to you if you want to cease being mistaken or cease being honest. Don't blame me if you make the wrond decision and can't live with it because it is not my fault only you can make decisions for yourself.

Everything is about DHS and dead babies with you. Go back through your history of posts. You sound like a nutter. What happened to you to make you so insane? Do you realize that an online forum doesn't have the capability of changing anything? I know what I have just said is totally pointless and lost on deaf ears...but...I just can't look away and I can't just not say anything.

Well I feel the same way about dead children I just can't look away and I can't just not say anything.

I just wonder how you have Yolanda Hunter and Donald Wheeler both out of Lincoln county, both involved in the Kelsey's case, both involved in other high profile cases where children died, both were under extreme scrutiny of the cases they oversaw. Given the situation it makes one ask why Mr. Wheeler didn't just retire like Yolanda Hunter did?

Well I feel the same way about dead children I just can't look away and I can't just not say anything.
Maybe you should if all you can do is whisper conspiracies. Jeeze. You have turned a tragedy into part of your sick hobby.

I just wonder how you have Yolanda Hunter and Donald Wheeler both out of Lincoln county, both involved in the Kelsey's case, both involved in other high profile cases where children died, both were under extreme scrutiny of the cases they oversaw. Given the situation it makes one ask why Mr. Wheeler didn't just retire like Yolanda Hunter did?

You're right. The only reasonable alternative is that DHS had Wheeler whacked.

Maybe you should if all you can do is whisper conspiracies. Jeeze. You have turned a tragedy into part of your sick hobby.This is not a sick hobby I am trying to educate people Donald Wheeler was a good man who truly tried to do a good job. He didn't want the same thing to happen to Serenity that happened to Kelsey unfortunately he was over ruled by Pott. county DHS and the judge in that county. People need to know how bad some DHS workers can get one of which has already been found guilty lying under oath on another case and just like Yolanda Hunter nothing ever happened to him. She also lied under oath and then admitted she didn't do her job on the Kelsey case but yet nothing happened to her. If we do not stick up for the good workers at DHS then we will have nothing left but the bad ones.

You'll never win an argument with somebody that has a personality disorder, no matter how right or how much sense you make.

If we do not stick up for the good workers at DHS then we will have nothing left but the bad ones.

I'm not sticking up for the good ones, because according to you DHS has a hitman on retainer!

This is not a sick hobby I am trying to educate people Donald Wheeler was a good man who truly tried to do a good job. He didn't want the same thing to happen to Serenity that happened to Kelsey unfortunately he was over ruled by Pott. county DHS and the judge in that county. People need to know how bad some DHS workers can get one of which has already been found guilty lying under oath on another case and just like Yolanda Hunter nothing ever happened to him. She also lied under oath and then admitted she didn't do her job on the Kelsey case but yet nothing happened to her. If we do not stick up for the good workers at DHS then we will have nothing left but the bad ones.

Without you, the system would crumble.

You're right. The only reasonable alternative is that DHS had Wheeler whacked.

I didn't say DHS had him whacked I just said that there is a lot to this story that does not make since. Just asking the question why would a man that hired a lawyer to sue DHS for harassment suddenly kill himself I feel sorry for him and his family. I know he was troubled by the Kelsey case and the Serenity case he tried so hard to not let Serenity wind up like Kelsey and it was taken away from him by people higher up then him and then they wanted to blame him for it when it went bad. DHS needs to be investigated and the bad workers need to be done away with so that the good workers can really do their job.

I'm not sticking up for the good ones, because according to you DHS has a hitman on retainer! That is your own sick interpretation of what you thought I said nobody really knows how he died yet. You people are just so dead set on attacking me that you can't see the forest for the trees. You don't care what the facts are you just want to attack me no matter what. At this point I could say that the sky is blue and you would say it was purple just so you could argue with me are you that afraid that people will start to see the real truth about how there really are some bad workers? You told me that you didn't want me commentting on your thread and asked me to leave and out of respect because it was your thread I left but now here you are on mine.

Without you, the system would crumble.

I didn't say that either I am saying that we all as Oklahoma citizens need to step up and do the best that we can do to make sure that the system runs the way it is supposed to run and not be too afraid to speak up when it doesn't and be willing to help change it.

Then go volunteer for CASA.

That is your own sick interpretation of what you thought I said nobody really knows how he died yet.

Exactly. This is why we can't yet rule out the hitman hypothesis.

Then go volunteer for CASA. The whole system needs to be investigated let's not forget Anna Naukam CASA worker of the year who stole $625,000 from the childrens fund. She is now in prison but still gets to keep the house that she bought with the money I have a problem with that also. I think since the house was bought with ill gotten goods the house should be sold and the money put back in the childrens fund.

I vote that Pete locks this thread and any thread that follows this one (with this line of "thinking").

Well hell.. you can go be a CASA volunteer AND get rich. Get off yer kiester and go make a difference. Ranting on the internet isn't going to save children's lives.

I vote that Pete locks this thread and any thread that follows this one (with this line of "thinking").

Why do you want the thread locked are you also afraid of the truth being exposed?

Well hell.. you can go be a CASA volunteer AND get rich. Get off yer kiester and go make a difference. Ranting on the internet isn't going to save children's lives.

If the only way I can make money is to steal it from children then I would rather be broke for the rest of my life. I don't need to steal money from others I am fully capable of working and making my own.

I vote that Pete locks this thread and any thread that follows this one (with this line of "thinking").


+10000

Why do you want the thread locked are you also afraid of the truth being exposed?
More afraid that the lunacy will become contagious...

Oh I see now I understand completely freedom of speech is only allowed as long as what I say agrees with your way of thinking gee I remember others like that. The names Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, etc. etc. ring a bell.

Oh I see now I understand completely freedom of speech is only allowed as long as what I say agrees with your way of thinking gee I remember others like that. The names Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, etc. etc. ring a bell.

There is no 'freedom of speech' obligation here, merely a privilege of speech. A privilege that can be revoked at any time for any reason.

The names Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, etc. etc. ring a bell.
There's a distinct difference between disagreeing viewpoints (which happens all the time on this forum) and trying to have a rational discussion with the irrational.


The names Hitler, Stalin, Hussain, etc. etc. ring a bell.
Yes, they were all mad men. Are you putting yourself in their company?

Col. Mustard, in the garden, with a .357 ... do I win?

More proof of what I say is true.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7horT_3Vy0&feature=related

More proof that DHS lies and fakes records of course people still want to say that I am crazy when I say DHS lies and fakes records.
http://newsok.com/murderbrspan-classhl2report-dhs-worker-faked-forms-in-abuse-case-that-ended-with...span/article/3115727

Commentary: Let’s start over

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-12862-let%E2%80%99s-start-over.html

While not here to bash DHS I fully agree with articles author that reunification should not even be a consideration. Once the kids are removed they NEVER GO BACK. All across the fruited plain there are THOUSANDS of wonderful families attempting to adopt but not enough kids to go around.

Just a thought.

Poppycock, hogwarsh and balderdash. For starters, at times children are removed improperly. In other instances, children are removed because one parent is a danger and the other is loving, but meek, or worse, has become terrified or numb to the problems of the spouse. W/o the problem party, the other could do a fair job as a caring parent.

In some instances, yes, the faster the children are elsewhere the better off they are at having a real shot of growing up in a normal, loving environment. But to say that means in all instances where the state gets a removal it should be permanent is just ol' fashioned knee jerk one size fits all reaction, at least from my perspective.

While not here to bash DHS I fully agree with articles author that reunification should not even be a consideration. Once the kids are removed they NEVER GO BACK. All across the fruited plain there are THOUSANDS of wonderful families attempting to adopt but not enough kids to go around.

Just a thought.

Oh hell no.

I've done enough work in the juvenile courts to know how easy it is to trump up a bunch of charges against a parent and get a well-meaning DHS worker to go do a pickup. Reunification, at least the majority of the time, is what's best for all involved.

Poppycock, hogwarsh and balderdash. For starters, at times children are removed improperly. In other instances, children are removed because one parent is a danger and the other is loving, but meek, or worse, has become terrified or numb to the problems of the spouse. W/o the problem party, the other could do a fair job as a caring parent.

In some instances, yes, the faster the children are elsewhere the better off they are at having a real shot of growing up in a normal, loving environment. But to say that means in all instances where the state gets a removal it should be permanent is just ol' fashioned knee jerk one size fits all reaction, at least from my perspective.

Let me see. I'm a grandparent and I think on of my grandkid's parents is abusive or abuses drugs or the kids are neglected. Do you think I'd ask DHS for help if I knew that if the kids were taken away from the parents, I would probably never see them again? Hell no!

Oh hell no.

I've done enough work in the juvenile courts to know how easy it is to trump up a bunch of charges against a parent and get a well-meaning DHS worker to go do a pickup. Reunification, at least the majority of the time, is what's best for all involved.

Oh hell maybe is the best that can be said...

And in my proffession I have seen many more go bad than went good. It depends upon your point of view. When it involves actual physical/sexual abuse, that is independently verified the reunification myth is just that, BUNK.

Let me see. I'm a grandparent and I think on of my grandkid's parents is abusive or abuses drugs or the kids are neglected. Do you think I'd ask DHS for help if I knew that if the kids were taken away from the parents, I would probably never see them again? Hell no!

So in your silence you are advocating further abuse??? If you won't call DHS then an intelligent choice is to have an alternative, what is yours?

Why would any grandparent call DHS under your original, once taken, always taken philosophy? But, not calling a one and done monolithic task force in no way suggests a do nothing approach by the grandparents, or anyone else.

There are options, from cautious, i.e., scooping up their child and grandchild and helping them relocate and separate from the bad parent, to the very extreme, i.e., a grandpa with a shovel and exceptional knowledge of the older U.S. forest roads.

What often happens in an abuse case is that the child is placed with a responsible family member and a protective order is put in place. As a guardian ad litem, I often wanted to see something like that happen rather than going into foster care because it kept a child safe, within the extended family and often didn't have nearly the trauma associated with entering the fostercare system. These kinds of cases often worked with a parent who had a drug problem or who was going to jail. A strong grandparent willing to set up firm boundaries and take the heat within the family is a blessing. It is often a thankless job, particularly with a screwed up parent willing to sabatage the situation.

At the same time, if the grandparent and other family members are just as screwed up as the parents, it can be a nightmare because they lie to social services, get the kids to lie and offer no real safety, at all. It is just a shell game and the kids are completely screwed up after being left in their care and brainwashed into thinking that if they don't lie, their family will hate them.

Some of the worst cases I saw were sexual abuse cases where the mother took custody, claiming she'd keep the children safe, then turn right back around and leave the kids with the pervert dad. I don't really care if she was scared or brainwashed or not at that point. I've no sympathy for a mother who would do that.

Let me see. I'm a grandparent and I think on of my grandkid's parents is abusive or abuses drugs or the kids are neglected. Do you think I'd ask DHS for help if I knew that if the kids were taken away from the parents, I would probably never see them again? Hell no!

DHS tries to place children with family members in kinship foster placements. So you'd most likely end up with custody if you could manage it.

Oh, wait, everything is going to be fine now..... Mary Fallin has appointed Wes Lane as the Minister of DHS.

http://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom_article.php?id=223&article_id=4007

Oh crap. Wes Lane is showing up again. He and his family are a disaster of the first magnitude.

I guess they figured he could best relate to kids since he's been sucking his momma's teet ever since being kicked out of office.

My grandson Aidan walling how is 6 has a black eye like I have never seen before, all the way down to his jaw. I have pictures and sent them to Canadian county DHS, I have reported it and reported it, I have begged them to save that child. They won't resond. I hope they fire / replaced the lazy screw-ups before my grandson is killed at the hands of marybeth or her monster boys.

My grandson has a guardian ad litem ~ WHAT A JOKE ~ ALL SHE CARES ABOUT IS THE &&&&&&&&&&&, SOME FATASS LAWYER OUT OF HENNESSEY OKLA.

My grandson Aidan walling how is 6 has a black eye like I have never seen before, all the way down to his jaw. I have pictures and sent them to Canadian county DHS, I have reported it and reported it, I have begged them to save that child. They won't resond. I hope they fire / replaced the lazy screw-ups before my grandson is killed at the hands of marybeth or her monster boys.

You need to contact a lawyer to see if you can pursue guardianship. If DHS is unwilling to act, you can damn sure bet the judge will if there's cause to, and you can bring that case without DHS' backing.

You need to contact a lawyer to see if you can pursue guardianship. If DHS is unwilling to act, you can damn sure bet the judge will if there's cause to, and you can bring that case without DHS' backing.

or call the police

Just a note on all this Jennifer Shawn admitted that when she became a supervisor it was made known to her that she was supposed to violate parents rights. She admitted that on channel 9 news on 9-15-2011. She was more then willing to go along with this for so many years and would still be doing it now if DHS hadn't decided to throw her under the bus so to speak. The big boys need somebody to take the fall and it sure won't be them she should have known it came down to her and them they would sell her out too.

Yea finding a lawyer would be nice good luck finding one you might want to start looking for one out of state. I would love to find a lawyer that would be willing to proceed a civil case against a DHS worker who abused a 23 month old child. I have the whole incident recorded on tape so there is no problem proving it happened the problem is as soon as I tell any lawyer it involves a DHS worker they give me the same answer. "Ma'am you need to find a different lawyer to handle that"

Its common knowledge that DHS violates all parents' rights. They just don't care about anything. I wonder what is in it for them? Money? Or just something to do out of pleasure?

Oh hell no.

I've done enough work in the juvenile courts to know how easy it is to trump up a bunch of charges against a parent and get a well-meaning DHS worker to go do a pickup. Reunification, at least the majority of the time, is what's best for all involved.

Wow I am shocked you finally admit that there are cases of fales allegations even though for months everybody has been on my case telling me this stuff doesn't happen. I am impressed that you have come forward with the truth.

Wow I am shocked you finally admit that there are cases of fales allegations even though for months everybody has been on my case telling me this stuff doesn't happen. I am impressed that you have come forward with the truth.

Nobody said that never happens and nobody said DHS doesn't screw up a lot - what was said is you try and make your point by going so over-the-top and with so many different versions of the same story that it causes you to lose all credibility.

Wow I am shocked you finally admit that there are cases of fales allegations even though for months everybody has been on my case telling me this stuff doesn't happen. I am impressed that you have come forward with the truth.

And if you have effective representation and/or work your plan if you stipulate, life should be just fine unless you demonstrate to your caseworker that you don't belong with your child. Then you can always have your day in court.

Wow I am shocked you finally admit that there are cases of fales allegations even though for months everybody has been on my case telling me this stuff doesn't happen. I am impressed that you have come forward with the truth.

Mid NEVER said that. He has been very patient with you - long past the time I was, to be sure. He gave you every benefit of the doubt, early on, and attempted to offer you good advice. He's also been very fair about DHS, overall, admitting the pros and cons. From my perspective, he has bent over backwards to be accurate. He has also offered you advice after advice and all you've done is refuse to take sensible action. You simply post here and insist you've got the goods. Sorry that I am acting as his advocate but for you to make that statement after the patience and fairness he has repeatedly demonstrated towards you, is ridiculous. When you just make stuff up like this it is impossible for many of us to take you seriously, a'tall.

And Dana's story has changed. She went from being a grandmother of a child who was taken away because her daughter slept in the same bed as the infant to the actual aggrieved parent unless I'm mistaken. But whatever. I've worked enough within DHS to know that 99% of the time when there's a termination, it's because the parent had better things to do than working their plan or because they've had previous terminations and nothing has really changed since then. I've seen some preposterous things with foster placements, complete absurdities.

But here's the thing. DHS is an absolutely huge bureaucracy. It employs overworked, unqualified and underpaid caseworkers. It is hugely underfunded and still experiencing cuts. Its job is perhaps more important than any other state agency, but it's treated like a redheaded stepchild.

Oklahoma, you get what you pay for. Congrats to our fearless leaders on our tax cuts which only really help millionaires while they won't fix a system which results in dead babies.

Child dies in the care of the wife of an OSBI agent. Nobody is charged but DHS still takes the other child from the mother who trusted the wife of the OSBI agent to take care of her children. This is sick DHS is punishing the parents because their child was killed by somebody else.
WHEN IS OKLAHOMA GOING TO STOP COVERING UP FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE KILLING CHILDREN?
http://newsok.com/mystery-surrounds-edmond-babys-homicide/article/3626761

For what it is worth Dana, no clear time has been determined for when the child's injury occurred. You are simply making an assumption the injury occurred while the child was with the unlicensed day care provider at the time of injury. That may or may not be the case. If not, then the child may have been injured while with a family member before arriving at the sitter.

I'm not going to speculate who may have injured the child on the minimal level of reading I've done this evening. Perhaps you might extend the same courtesy to others. I feel near certain you would wish the same for yourself in such a situation.