View Full Version : DHS steals,abuses & kills children



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PennyQuilts
10-19-2008, 07:34 PM
Check out the records. This isn't her first rodeo.

Karried
10-19-2008, 07:56 PM
**** Edited post to protect the privacy of those involved ****


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I'm sorry you are going through this ... I know the fear of losing your grandson and the negative emotions must be overwhelming but you must keep your composure in situations like this. You really should delete (and remove the caseworker's name. photo, etc) and all of this personal info on various blogs, public boards, etc etc

Midtowner
10-19-2008, 09:35 PM
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ultimatesooner
10-19-2008, 11:51 PM
* Edited content to protect privacy

just scanning this thread, there is probably more to this story than we all know and OP seems really unstable

Dana
10-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Did anyone hear you (Dana) threaten her or is it her word against yours?
I never threatened her at all she saw me through a window and called the judge downstairs while I was waiting on the elevator to go downstairs to see my daughter. Next thing I know she says I threatened her and that is it I am guilty even though I did nothing.

Dana
10-20-2008, 12:23 PM
Check out the records. This isn't her first rodeo.
This is just your way of trying to slam me again and I will give you the facts of the other one from 17 years ago. The woman came to my house in front of my neighbors and threatened me and then went the next day and filed a VPO on me just to be mean. But the truth did come out and she has since gone to prison for manufacturing meth. So again you need to check your facts run a inquiry on the woman that is on the other side of the one from 17 years ago.

jacodenn
10-20-2008, 12:25 PM
Dana,

If the Caseworker and/or any other employee of DHS read your many posts on the web, could they have intrepeted/perceived any of those as threats? I take it you have not seen the actual "complaint" yet?

Dennis
Oklahoma City

Midtowner
10-20-2008, 12:32 PM
Dana, you really, really need to get a lawyer.

Ask him or her what they think about your internet activities.

That's about all I have to say about that.

jacodenn
10-20-2008, 12:38 PM
Midtowner,

It is very easy to suggest to a person that they "get a lawyer."

But, what if that person just cannot afford a lawyer, what then?

Dana
10-20-2008, 12:39 PM
Dana,

If the Caseworker and/or any other employee of DHS read your many posts on the web, could they have intrepeted/perceived any of those as threats? I take it you have not seen the actual "complaint" yet?

Dennis
Oklahoma City
I was just trying to warn them about this woman who threatened to destroy me in my own home. We all know there are crazy people out there and I was just trying to let them know to look at this. I always have been known as a person who helps people. If someone was about to walk into danger and I knew it I would warn them don't do that you might get hurt. Just like you would warn a child not to touch the fire on the stove that doesn't mean you are going to burn the child. If you have a low tire on your car and I see you in traffic I am the person who honks to let you know so you don't wreck your car and get hurt that doesn't mean I am going to make your tire go flat. I don't hurt people it is not in my nature but we do have some people in this town that do hurt people we all know this it is on the news all the time. I just didn't want to see anybody get hurt but of course they are going to twist the facts so they get what they want I know that now. I never said I was going to hurt anybody even with all that she has done to me 2 wrongs don't make a right. That is something that my granny told me that I have carried through my whole life and will continue to do so. There is nothing she or anybody else can do to me that will cause me to answer with violence it just won't happen, but I can only answer for me I can not speak for others who may not have the same morals as me. Like I said that man in Edmond should not have done what he did to those poor people at the post office. Now their poor familys have been made to suffer because he couldn't control himself. That is all I mean't and they know it they just want to make me look bad but God knows the truth and someday so will everybody else.

jacodenn
10-20-2008, 12:45 PM
Dana,

Have you ever gotten back to Britten Follett, Fox 25, so she could do a follow-up on your story (if that is something you want to do).

Karried
10-20-2008, 01:21 PM
I'm going to delete my previous post because I believe it is not a good idea.. I hope Dana that you can go back and delete, edit or ask the Web admins or moderators to delete anything that might not be in your best interests.

All anyone has to do is Google .... it's everywhere.

Dana
10-20-2008, 02:59 PM
I'm going to delete my previous post because I believe it is not a good idea.. I hope Dana that you can go back and delete, edit or ask the Web admins or moderators to delete anything that might not be in your best interests.

All anyone has to do is Google .... it's everywhere.

I just thought I would let all of you know that the charges against me have nothing to do with anything that I have posted on the net. She told the judge that I called her and told her I was at her office (which I have to this day never been to) and told her I was going to beat her up. Then she got the foster mother to lie and say that I threatened other stuff that is not true. I would tell you but East Coast Okie has a habit of takeing my words and twisting them and then reposting them. She has done it to me before so I am sure she would do it again. Anyway it doesn't matter anymore I will be gone soon and you won't have to worry about me anymore and they can continue with their corruption and their lies and all the other crooked things they do.
Goodbye to all that were nice to me the rest will have to deal with their own conscience.

jacodenn
10-20-2008, 03:10 PM
Dana,

It would probably be in your best interest not to post any more comments about this case on here. Reason being, the "other side" is probably reading and copying everything you write on here.

You know how to get in touch with "us" if you need to.

Dennis
Oklahoma City

jacodenn
10-20-2008, 04:15 PM
Dana,

I have shared this with you before and I am going to repeat it...Don't give up before the miracle happens! You are in this valley for a reason. This is something that you and God are going to have to work out.

No matter what others may say to you or about you; no matter what others may try to do to you; know this...you are not alone.

I know you are hurt and I know you are very angry. Please talk to someone. Call a Church and speak with a Minister or a Counselor. Just talk to someone, please.

All of this that you are going through right now might very well be a brand new beginning for you.

Don't give up!

Dennis
Oklahoma City

jacodenn
10-24-2008, 09:05 AM
Dana,

If you are reading this, please contact one of us and let us know you are okay and/or what we can do to help you.

Dennis

W. Moore
11-21-2008, 12:58 PM
State Rep. Morrissette who ran the hearings,(closed to the public)regarding problems at DHS including possible criminal acts that have led to the abuse and deaths of children as well as the destruction of many innocent families has put forth legislation to have all children screened for "body mass index" at schools. Parents of children deemed over or under weight would be notified and instructed to take the child to a Dr.,those who do not "cooperate" can then be reported to DHS. Homeschooled children would also be included.
So this is how we address the failings of DHS, by giving them more power over families and children.
Contact info for the rep. is below if anyone wishes to contact his office to give comments on this legislation.

jacklyn.brink-rosen@okhouse.gov

Midtowner
11-21-2008, 01:47 PM
Don't worry.. bat**** crazy bills get submitted every year.

This one, like those, will never see the light of day.

Bobby821
11-21-2008, 03:51 PM
I hope it is buried deep. This is crazy

Dana
11-22-2008, 09:14 AM
State Rep. Morrissette who ran the hearings,(closed to the public)regarding problems at DHS including possible criminal acts that have led to the abuse and deaths of children as well as the destruction of many innocent families has put forth legislation to have all children screened for "body mass index" at schools. Parents of children deemed over or under weight would be notified and instructed to take the child to a Dr.,those who do not "cooperate" can then be reported to DHS. Homeschooled children would also be included.
So this is how we address the failings of DHS, by giving them more power over families and children.
Contact info for the rep. is below if anyone wishes to contact his office to give comments on this legislation.

jacklyn.brink-rosen@okhouse.govWhy does this not surprise me he professes to help us and then wants to introduce another bill that only helps DHS futher.

angel27
11-24-2008, 01:16 PM
Last week one woman I know who has faught valiently to regain and keep her children (they have been back together as a family now for about 6 months) had DHS & police cars show up at her house last week to pick up the kids. They searched the place for her x, who is not supposed to be there, and didn't find him but said they had "proof" that he had been there. They prepared to take the children, with one of the teens screeming she wouldn't go and against all protests. Finally she got it out of them that a CASA worker had been at the end of the street and saw the x on the porch. My friend said, "would he happened to look like this guy?" going to one of her daughters friends, who had been on the porch most of the morning. Yep. The CASA worker thought the friend was her x. Everyone packed up and left the family intact. The CASA worker subsequently resigned, saying she had become too involved.

If she had not gotten to the core of the matter that day, they would have been in it for God only knows how much longer - or she could have lost them forever. Anytime after 18 months the court can decide its too long and go for termination.

I can't believe this happens in this country. I know many intelligent persons on this forum are saying "don't post." And I don't want specific persons to get themselves in any trouble by doing so, or endangering their case. But I do beleive the truth of such matters should be told. We do all have to deal with what we believe about it. But I sincerely hope the discussion continues.

Dana
11-24-2008, 06:56 PM
Last week one woman I know who has faught valiently to regain and keep her children (they have been back together as a family now for about 6 months) had DHS & police cars show up at her house last week to pick up the kids. They searched the place for her x, who is not supposed to be there, and didn't find him but said they had "proof" that he had been there. They prepared to take the children, with one of the teens screeming she wouldn't go and against all protests. Finally she got it out of them that a CASA worker had been at the end of the street and saw the x on the porch. My friend said, "would he happened to look like this guy?" going to one of her daughters friends, who had been on the porch most of the morning. Yep. The CASA worker thought the friend was her x. Everyone packed up and left the family intact. The CASA worker subsequently resigned, saying she had become too involved.

If she had not gotten to the core of the matter that day, they would have been in it for God only knows how much longer - or she could have lost them forever. Anytime after 18 months the court can decide its too long and go for termination.

I can't believe this happens in this country. I know many intelligent persons on this forum are saying "don't post." And I don't want specific persons to get themselves in any trouble by doing so, or endangering their case. But I do beleive the truth of such matters should be told. We do all have to deal with what we believe about it. But I sincerely hope the discussion continues.
I am so sorry to here about your friends situation I wish I could say I am surprised but I am not. I am glad they got it fixed quickly though.

angel27
12-12-2008, 12:01 PM
I have more good news from my DHS dealings. I thought it only fair to post good news since I have been willing to complain about misdealings.

One mother I have been working with for some time ran into a finanacial crisis and her electric was cut. She and her child stayed away from her apartment with family or friends but she let a male friend stay there who trashed it and smoked with a bong. At a visit to her apartment she had to call the police and he took a look at the place and called DHS to take her child because the place was a pit with electricity off and drugs on the premises.

Mom did something I am so proud of. She didn't stipulate. They included in her petition about the drugs and she refused to admit to something that she didn't do. At a family conference yesterday DHS mentioned that they did a DA assessment on mom and she passed with colors, and they are going to strike that part of the petition. This is the first time I've seen a mom successfully handle that part of the process. Forgive my ignorance but I've just had to learn this stuff as I go. But I really saw DHS work with her and invite her into the process of her service plan. It was a very positive meeting.
Her bench trial with the Judge will occur in January since she didn't stipulate and she is willing to do whatever it takes to regain her child.

Another mom had her fifth infant and they promptly swooped in and took her. DHS had terminated on her previous 4 children. DHS had rights to be concerned because this mom is an addict with a lot of issues. But for the past year, she has been clean. She has gotten a job, maintained it, gotten a car, is repaying her debt, and will soon have her own place. They refused to give her a service plan on this infant and all concerned processed the case to go for a jury trial termination on December 1st.

On another case, after the last baby was taken after other children were terminated, I saw that DHS didn't do anything to help the mother know they would take the coming infant based on the fact her deficiencies were not made right, even tho workers indicated otherwise. So I told the above mom before the jury trial to go to work and complete her service plan.

She entered treatment voluntarily, she complied with all requests, has had multiple clean drug tests, attends AA daily and works her steps and is helpful and a good influence on others. The day she showed for jury trial, DHS caseworkers, the DA and those concerned all allowed her one more chance based on her performance. We are ecstatic, because she is truly a good person who deserves a good life, and is really on track.

I just wanted to share these good experiences with our processes.

PennyQuilts
12-12-2008, 12:05 PM
Thanks, Angel. I see stuff like this all the time but no one talks about it. The only people who have much to say are usually aggrieved and the department can't speak up in their own defense. It was good of you to tell the other side in the interest of fairness.

Dana
12-15-2008, 03:31 PM
I have more good news from my DHS dealings. I thought it only fair to post good news since I have been willing to complain about misdealings.

One mother I have been working with for some time ran into a finanacial crisis and her electric was cut. She and her child stayed away from her apartment with family or friends but she let a male friend stay there who trashed it and smoked with a bong. At a visit to her apartment she had to call the police and he took a look at the place and called DHS to take her child because the place was a pit with electricity off and drugs on the premises.

Mom did something I am so proud of. She didn't stipulate. They included in her petition about the drugs and she refused to admit to something that she didn't do. At a family conference yesterday DHS mentioned that they did a DA assessment on mom and she passed with colors, and they are going to strike that part of the petition. This is the first time I've seen a mom successfully handle that part of the process. Forgive my ignorance but I've just had to learn this stuff as I go. But I really saw DHS work with her and invite her into the process of her service plan. It was a very positive meeting.
Her bench trial with the Judge will occur in January since she didn't stipulate and she is willing to do whatever it takes to regain her child.

Another mom had her fifth infant and they promptly swooped in and took her. DHS had terminated on her previous 4 children. DHS had rights to be concerned because this mom is an addict with a lot of issues. But for the past year, she has been clean. She has gotten a job, maintained it, gotten a car, is repaying her debt, and will soon have her own place. They refused to give her a service plan on this infant and all concerned processed the case to go for a jury trial termination on December 1st.

On another case, after the last baby was taken after other children were terminated, I saw that DHS didn't do anything to help the mother know they would take the coming infant based on the fact her deficiencies were not made right, even tho workers indicated otherwise. So I told the above mom before the jury trial to go to work and complete her service plan.

She entered treatment voluntarily, she complied with all requests, has had multiple clean drug tests, attends AA daily and works her steps and is helpful and a good influence on others. The day she showed for jury trial, DHS caseworkers, the DA and those concerned all allowed her one more chance based on her performance. We are ecstatic, because she is truly a good person who deserves a good life, and is really on track.

I just wanted to share these good experiences with our processes. Well it is nice to here about the good ones that are out there unfortunately I am not dealing with one of those. With the bad ones that are out there we need to be reminded about the good ones so we don't become jaded and think they are all bad.

angel27
12-15-2008, 08:05 PM
Thanks ECO. I know there are always two sides, and am glad to report on a positive side. I'm sure with all of them if you are involved in the system you need to be wary and meet your service plan to a tee. I've seen some syrupy sweet workers turn in some devastating reports or opinions. Tho these cases are looking positive, you can be sure we are not taking anything for granted or letting our guards down. Whenever possible, we jump start the service plan and then if we have to do it twice, so be it. Leave nothing to chance if you can help it. Good luck to you Dana.

Dana
02-17-2011, 02:55 PM
You haven't proven corruption, just that federal funds are awarded to state agencies which disburse federal aid. You have also shown that in 2004, because DHS was efficient at doing their jobs, they had a surplus of money which was spent by giving all full time employees a $1,000 bonus.

Other than that, your allegations of "corruption" seem based upon your bad experience with the system and that you experienced a poor result. No system will ever be perfect and DHS is probably one of the most chronically underfunded systems which our state has to manage.

You shouldn't be seeking legal advice on a message board, you should be seeking the advice of an attorney who handles juvenile matters. If you can't afford an attorney, you should be able to get one through Legal Aid.

MALICIOUS PROSECUTION IS LEGAL IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA ACCORDING TO THE BAR ASSOCIATION. I JUST GOT A LETTER FROM THE BAR ASSOCIATION CONFIRMING IT. YET WE WONDER WHY OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS SO CORRUPT. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

anyafanya
02-17-2011, 03:43 PM
Oh my. This is right up my alley when it comes to conversation but this is a little too intimidating to post in the first time!
I am a sociology student and I will graduate in May. I worked for DHS as a case aide almost three years ago. I presently am interning at Boys Ranch Town in Edmond. But let me just say, with or without DHS there is going to be abuse, neglect, and mistreatment of children that may even result in death. The DHS case workers are not to blame for any court decisions regarding custody. I didn't read every post up until now but I will say that the judge responsible for returning Kelsey Briggs DID step down after her death. Nobody is perfect.
I'm not defending DHS as a whole because having worked there I know that things happen and children's lives and safety get overlooked. But who is to blame for that? Under-trained, underpaid, and overworked case workers? I don't think so.

OKCMallen
02-17-2011, 04:23 PM
Just noticed the thread was super old.

Midtowner
02-17-2011, 05:02 PM
MALICIOUS PROSECUTION IS LEGAL IN THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA ACCORDING TO THE BAR ASSOCIATION. I JUST GOT A LETTER FROM THE BAR ASSOCIATION CONFIRMING IT. YET WE WONDER WHY OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS SO CORRUPT. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

What does one thing have to do with the other?

This is the first I've heard of malicious prosecution from you.

Malicious prosecution is a tort. It arises when the plaintiff can prove: (1) the defendant's institution of the former action; (2) its termination in the plaintiff's favor; (3) the defendant's want of probable cause for pressing the former suit against the plaintiff; (4) the presence of malice in the defendant's conduct; and (5) damages.

It can't be used against a state agency or employee (as a state actor, but it can be used against one personally) because if a defendant acts intentionally and with malice, it is going to be outside of the scope of their employment, and therefore the state agency won't be able to be held liable. At any rate, it is not "legal," and if you're going to quote the Bar Association, at least be accurate.

Malicious prosecution wouldn't be your cause of action anyhow if you even had one.

Dana
02-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Oh my. This is right up my alley when it comes to conversation but this is a little too intimidating to post in the first time!
I am a sociology student and I will graduate in May. I worked for DHS as a case aide almost three years ago. I presently am interning at Boys Ranch Town in Edmond. But let me just say, with or without DHS there is going to be abuse, neglect, and mistreatment of children that may even result in death. The DHS case workers are not to blame for any court decisions regarding custody. I didn't read every post up until now but I will say that the judge responsible for returning Kelsey Briggs DID step down after her death. Nobody is perfect.
I'm not defending DHS as a whole because having worked there I know that things happen and children's lives and safety get overlooked. But who is to blame for that? Under-trained, underpaid, and overworked case workers? I don't think so.I am so sorry that they only let you see the side of their organization that they wanted you to see. I myself have documents of illegal actions done by DHS workers and criminal records of DHS workers who attack people who have no record at all. I would invite you to read the book "Who Killed Kelsey" and then see if you think they all did their jobs properly. To add insult to injury they had to exhume Kelsey's body twice guess that means the ME didn't do his job right. How many other children who died under the watchful eye of DHS who also had their deaths misdaignosed but they are DHS kids so nobody really cares.

Dana
02-17-2011, 05:27 PM
What does one thing have to do with the other?

This is the first I've heard of malicious prosecution from you.

Malicious prosecution is a tort. It arises when the plaintiff can prove: (1) the defendant's institution of the former action; (2) its termination in the plaintiff's favor; (3) the defendant's want of probable cause for pressing the former suit against the plaintiff; (4) the presence of malice in the defendant's conduct; and (5) damages.

It can't be used against a state agency or employee (as a state actor, but it can be used against one personally) because if a defendant acts intentionally and with malice, it is going to be outside of the scope of their employment, and therefore the state agency won't be able to be held liable. At any rate, it is not "legal," and if you're going to quote the Bar Association, at least be accurate.

Malicious prosecution wouldn't be your cause of action anyhow if you even had one.

I am guessing by your response that you are a lawyer? If you had a case where a prosecuting attorney maliciously prosecuted a person to keep the truth about abuse done by DHS workers would you take the case? As far as quoting the Bar Association according to the report in the Bar association, children and parents rights are regularly violated. Check the 2007 ABA report on the OKC juvenile court system.

Midtowner
02-17-2011, 05:31 PM
I am guessing by your response that you are a lawyer? If you had a case where a prosecuting attorney maliciously prosecuted a person to keep the truth about abuse done by DHS workers would you take the case? As far as quoting the Bar Association according to the report in the Bar association, children and parents rights are regularly violated. Check the 2007 ABA report on the OKC juvenile court system.

How many lawyers have already had your case? I'm aware of at least one who took your case pro bono. Not everyone who gets a bad shake has their rights violated. In my experience, people who deal with DHS get screwed because of their own lack of knowledge about the system, their failure to go get legal help, etc. Through their own inaction or lack of action, or even willing cooperation in getting their rights violated, people screw themselves.

The system isn't set up very well, and honestly, I've seen caseworkers make some absolutely astoundingly stupid determinations.

Dana
02-17-2011, 05:35 PM
How many lawyers have already had your case? I'm aware of at least one who took your case pro bono. Not everyone who gets a bad shake has their rights violated. In my experience, people who deal with DHS get screwed because of their own lack of knowledge about the system, their failure to go get legal help, etc.My case has nothing to do with lack of knowledge I have the abuse on tape but can't find a judge who will let it be heard in court. I also have a tape of an attorney admitting that everybody knew I was innocent of the bogus charge but they couldn't dismiss it because it would make DHS mad if they dismissed my case.

Midtowner
02-17-2011, 05:41 PM
My case has nothing to do with lack of knowledge I have the abuse on tape but can't find a judge who will let it be heard in court. I also have a tape of an attorney admitting that everybody knew I was innocent of the bogus charge but they couldn't dismiss it because it would make DHS mad if they dismissed my case.

Dana, I'm not going to offer specific advice as to your situation because I don't know much if anything about it.

Did your daughter voluntarily relinquish her rights?

Dana
02-17-2011, 05:43 PM
Dana, I'm not going to offer specific advice as to your situation because I don't know much if anything about it.

Did your daughter voluntarily relinquish her rights?No and she never will.

W. Moore
02-17-2011, 09:14 PM
How many lawyers have already had your case? I'm aware of at least one who took your case pro bono. Not everyone who gets a bad shake has their rights violated. In my experience, people who deal with DHS get screwed because of their own lack of knowledge about the system, their failure to go get legal help, etc. Through their own inaction or lack of action, or even willing cooperation in getting their rights violated, people screw themselves.

The system isn't set up very well, and honestly, I've seen caseworkers make some absolutely astoundingly stupid determinations.

The entire Childrens Code in the State Statutes had to be rewritten because of the results of the performance audit that revealed children were being removed wrongly, kids are appointed lawyers, so where were they?

Was the lawyer who took her case the same one who kept failing to show up and the judge said in open court should have a bar complaint filed against him?

How does court go on without the defendant having a lawyer present?

Is it peoples lack of knowledge or the frauds and shams in our legal system that screws people?

Think about it people, a well known judge in OKC. was overturned for jailing people illegally in violation of the Constitution and he's still on the bench, so does the Constitution or an oath taken to it really mean anything in our legal system anymore?

W. Moore
02-17-2011, 09:28 PM
The system isn't set up very well, and honestly, I've seen caseworkers make some absolutely astoundingly stupid determinations.

Given the fact that DHS workers are not qualified to make the determinations they do, (decide guilt or innocence, or that abuse occurred without evidence) and the significant record of many of them having criminal and personal problems surely you challenged every determination not supported by a legal standard of evidence right?

PennyQuilts
02-17-2011, 09:34 PM
Given the fact that DHS workers are not qualified to make the determinations they do, (decide guilt or innocence, or that abuse occurred without evidence) and the significant record of many of them having criminal and personal problems surely you challenged every determination not supported by a legal standard of evidence right?

What I would run into is not necessarily incompetent workers, most of the time, rather, some workers were much faster to pull the trigger on a removal on a given set of facts. They usually had facts sufficient to meet their burden but others, on similar facts used their discretion to do something less intrusive, like a protective order or safety plan. It would end up looking pretty arbitrary.

Some workers were better than others. Some were marvels.

W. Moore
02-17-2011, 10:37 PM
What I would run into is not necessarily incompetent workers, most of the time, rather, some workers were much faster to pull the trigger on a removal on a given set of facts. They usually had facts sufficient to meet their burden but others, on similar facts used their discretion to do something less intrusive, like a protective order or safety plan. It would end up looking pretty arbitrary.

Some workers were better than others. Some were marvels.

I didn't even mention incompetent, what about those many cases where it's discovered the worker making the determinations, (judgments) has a criminal history or drinking/substance abuse issues? Should those cases be reviewed?

But qualifications should be considered. A 2 year degree in basket weaving or the history of Mickey Mouse along with 5 weeks? of in house type training makes one a "Child Welfare Specialist". They are not required to be licensed Social Workers.

It also needs to be understood how low their "burden" is, if they had or needed "probable cause" one would think warrants would be obtained for removals, they seldom are.

So in truth we have determinations, (judgments) based on "reasonable suspicion", made by those with questionable credibility, who work for a state agency with a notorious record. That's the "burden" for a "kidjacking", (see kidjacking.com).

PennyQuilts
02-18-2011, 08:50 AM
Judges make the decision regarding whether to remove children from a home. Social workers merely offer the evidence and make the request (beyond the initial time period that must also be approved by the judge).

Swake2
02-18-2011, 12:05 PM
My mother was a DHS Child Welfare child abuse investigative unit supervisor for many years so I know more than a little bit about DHS Child Welfare. The idea that DHS is constantly running around taking away kids from innocent parents with no court supervision is simply stupid. It’s true that DHS is a danger to children, but the danger isn’t from being overzealous or punitive to innocent parents. DHS has huge problems with woefully inadequate staffing levels bad pay and more than a few incompetent and sometimes lazy employees. The danger to kids comes from chronic case overload and pitiful funding levels leading to not enough thorough investigations and too many kids being left in homes that they need to be removed from.

The courts probably need to take over DHS, but when that happens I don’t think that the people on here calling for the end of DHS are going to like the result. A fully funded and functioning Child Welfare section of DHS is going to suddenly be taking far more kids out of homes than they do now, not less. The reason DHS doesn’t want it’s files opened isn’t because they’ve broken up a bunch of innocent families, it’s because they failed so many times to protect abused kids that they could and should have removed from homes.

PennyQuilts
02-18-2011, 06:29 PM
A fully funded and functioning Child Welfare section of DHS is going to suddenly be taking far more kids out of homes than they do now, not less. The reason DHS doesn’t want it’s files opened isn’t because they’ve broken up a bunch of innocent families, it’s because they failed so many times to protect abused kids that they could and should have removed from homes.

Truth. Can't tell you how many times kids that were being abused where I worked that were left in home simply due to lack of money. The money pie to "prevent foster care" was the one place you could count on getting funds and it was used to pay for services for families that would make your brains explode in terms of dollars and cents. It was throwing money down a hole, for the most part, at the expense of the kids. Kept 'em a pressure cooker. because there was no money to rescue them out of those hellholes and put them with a safe family. And no incentive for the families to get their sh*t together because other than the aggravation of people making periodic visits, they got all kinds of services, financial assistance and the like. Once left with a dysfunctional family, the kids learned, fast, to not say a word, not tell and just try to survive, frequently by avoiding being at home or finding other "safe" places - like older boyfriends and gangs.

Dana
02-18-2011, 06:30 PM
Truth. Can't tell you how many times kids that were being abused where I worked that were left in home simply due to lack of money. The money pie to "prevent foster care" was the one place you could count on getting funds and it was used to pay for services for families that would make your brains explode in terms of dollars and cents. It was throwing money down a hole, for the most part, at the expense of the kids. Kept 'em a pressure cooker. because there was no money to rescue them out of those hellholes and put them with a safe family. And no incentive for the families to get their sh*t together because other than the aggravation of people making periodic visits, they got all kinds of services, financial assistance and the like. Once left with a dysfunctional family, the kids learned, fast, to not say a word, not tell and just try to survive, frequently by avoiding being at home or finding other "safe" places - like older boyfriends and gangs.It sounds to me like the only thing you know about DHS is from your mother. She may be one of the good ones and God bless her for that. However I have documents of so many more bad ones with criminal records etc. and I also have documents that prove where children were taken illegally. I do agree with you last statement about DHS not acting quickly enough to save the truely abused children I will give you that.

Dana
02-18-2011, 06:32 PM
My mother was a DHS Child Welfare child abuse investigative unit supervisor for many years so I know more than a little bit about DHS Child Welfare. The idea that DHS is constantly running around taking away kids from innocent parents with no court supervision is simply stupid. It’s true that DHS is a danger to children, but the danger isn’t from being overzealous or punitive to innocent parents. DHS has huge problems with woefully inadequate staffing levels bad pay and more than a few incompetent and sometimes lazy employees. The danger to kids comes from chronic case overload and pitiful funding levels leading to not enough thorough investigations and too many kids being left in homes that they need to be removed from.

The courts probably need to take over DHS, but when that happens I don’t think that the people on here calling for the end of DHS are going to like the result. A fully funded and functioning Child Welfare section of DHS is going to suddenly be taking far more kids out of homes than they do now, not less. The reason DHS doesn’t want it’s files opened isn’t because they’ve broken up a bunch of innocent families, it’s because they failed so many times to protect abused kids that they could and should have removed from homes.It sounds to me like the only thing you know about DHS is from your mother. She may be one of the good ones and God bless her for that. However I have documents of so many more bad ones with criminal records etc. and I also have documents that prove where children were taken illegally. I do agree with you last statement about DHS not acting quickly enough to save the truely abused children I will give you that.

Dana
02-18-2011, 06:33 PM
Truth. Can't tell you how many times kids that were being abused where I worked that were left in home simply due to lack of money. The money pie to "prevent foster care" was the one place you could count on getting funds and it was used to pay for services for families that would make your brains explode in terms of dollars and cents. It was throwing money down a hole, for the most part, at the expense of the kids. Kept 'em a pressure cooker. because there was no money to rescue them out of those hellholes and put them with a safe family. And no incentive for the families to get their sh*t together because other than the aggravation of people making periodic visits, they got all kinds of services, financial assistance and the like. Once left with a dysfunctional family, the kids learned, fast, to not say a word, not tell and just try to survive, frequently by avoiding being at home or finding other "safe" places - like older boyfriends and gangs.Sorry Penny my last quote went to you instead of the person above you sorry about that.

Swake2
02-18-2011, 07:34 PM
It sounds to me like the only thing you know about DHS is from your mother. She may be one of the good ones and God bless her for that. However I have documents of so many more bad ones with criminal records etc. and I also have documents that prove where children were taken illegally. I do agree with you last statement about DHS not acting quickly enough to save the truely abused children I will give you that.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. "I'm innocent, my child was taken illegally, DHS is evil, poor me", give me a break. I don't know anything about your story, but I do know this, my dad was a Psychologist for the state prison system and no one in prison is guilty either. DHS is so bad and so underfunded in Oklahoma that to get an abused child noticed and taken out of a home is so hard that the abuse has to be so bad and so obvious that it would make you sick. I can't tell you the number of dead kids my mother dealt with on a regular basis and it hardly ever made the news. Part of her job was to take the after hours calls from hospitals when they suspected abuse and it was beyond awful. She once had three kids die on her in one weekend. Abuse is rampant in this state and accepted as normal by way too many people. Kids are not being taken from homes just for the hell of it, not at all, they aren't being taken near enough.

Dana
02-18-2011, 07:58 PM
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. "I'm innocent, my child was taken illegally, DHS is evil, poor me", give me a break. I don't know anything about your story, but I do know this, my dad was a Psychologist for the state prison system and no one in prison is guilty either. DHS is so bad and so underfunded in Oklahoma that to get an abused child noticed and taken out of a home is so hard that the abuse has to be so bad and so obvious that it would make you sick. I can't tell you the number of dead kids my mother dealt with on a regular basis and it hardly ever made the news. Part of her job was to take the after hours calls from hospitals when they suspected abuse and it was beyond awful. She once had three kids die on her in one weekend. Abuse is rampant in this state and accepted as normal by way too many people. Kids are not being taken from homes just for the hell of it, not at all, they aren't being taken near enough.Well unlike you I deal in facts not subjective opinions like DHS. I say how about you go read the audit report that was done in 2009 or the ABA report that was done in 2007 or the Children's rights report in 2010 and then we can talk.

Catman
02-18-2011, 08:24 PM
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. "I'm innocent, my child was taken illegally, DHS is evil, poor me", give me a break. I don't know anything about your story, but I do know this, my dad was a Psychologist for the state prison system and no one in prison is guilty either. DHS is so bad and so underfunded in Oklahoma that to get an abused child noticed and taken out of a home is so hard that the abuse has to be so bad and so obvious that it would make you sick. I can't tell you the number of dead kids my mother dealt with on a regular basis and it hardly ever made the news. Part of her job was to take the after hours calls from hospitals when they suspected abuse and it was beyond awful. She once had three kids die on her in one weekend. Abuse is rampant in this state and accepted as normal by way too many people. Kids are not being taken from homes just for the hell of it, not at all, they aren't being taken near enough.

If you listen to the news , not everybody in prison is guilty !

Catman
02-18-2011, 08:28 PM
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. "I'm innocent, my child was taken illegally, DHS is evil, poor me", give me a break. I don't know anything about your story, but I do know this, my dad was a Psychologist for the state prison system and no one in prison is guilty either. DHS is so bad and so underfunded in Oklahoma that to get an abused child noticed and taken out of a home is so hard that the abuse has to be so bad and so obvious that it would make you sick. I can't tell you the number of dead kids my mother dealt with on a regular basis and it hardly ever made the news. Part of her job was to take the after hours calls from hospitals when they suspected abuse and it was beyond awful. She once had three kids die on her in one weekend. Abuse is rampant in this state and accepted as normal by way too many people. Kids are not being taken from homes just for the hell of it, not at all, they aren't being taken near enough.

If you listen to the news, some people in prison are innocent !

Swake2
02-19-2011, 06:47 AM
I read your affidavit. That was interesting to say the least and I don't buy half of it, so many people conspiring to get you. You and that FastForward guy should get together.

Dana
02-19-2011, 01:10 PM
I read your affidavit. That was interesting to say the least and I don't buy half of it, so many people conspiring to get you. You and that FastForward guy should get together.My affidavit is the truth and I have the documents to back it up. Also I am not the only one this woman did this to that is why she was fired from DHS. Also I don't know who this other person is you are talking about or anything about their story so there is no need to discuss them. If you want to live in your little world with rose colored glasses that is your choice a lot of other people do. I was raised to always tell the truth which I do. I am not the only one or Children Rights
would not be here doing the same thing to Oklahoma that they did to Michigan and a few others. This is not about me it is about innocent children who need to be protected. I realize I got too close and had to pay the price when I tried to expose a lot of corruption that I found, but a smart man once said "Evil Flourishes When Good Men Do Nothing". I believed it during the civil rights movement and I still believe it now. During those days some people thought it was ok to discriminate and abuse black people just because of the color of their skin and this is no different. These are innocent children who need to be protected whether it be from their own parents, bad foster parents, or bad DHS workers. Child abuse is wrong no matter who is doing it. Unfortunately doing the right thing sometimes means you will have to suffer being ridiculed, beaten, and sometimes even murdered but a good person must keep on just Martin Luther King. God never said life would be easy and doing the right thing never is it is so much easier to go along with the crowd because people these days are too scared to truly stand up for what is right. Some even think as long as nobody knows what they are really doing that it is ok but remember
this God always knows what everybody is doing.

W. Moore
02-19-2011, 01:26 PM
When you consider the Santa Clara $300mil. "Ghost Children " scandal, the ghost children scandal here in the OCCY, the ABA report on the OKC. Juvenile Court, the audit results of DHS, and the many deaths of children in state care, it makes one wonder what the system really is and who the criminals and enemy's of the people really are.
The story below appears to answer that question once again.

W. Moore
02-19-2011, 01:27 PM
Pa. judge guilty of racketeering in kickback case

By MICHAEL RUBINKAM, Associated Press – 31 mins ago Feb. 18, 2011

http://news. yahoo.com/ s/ap/20110219/ ap_on_re_ us/us_courthouse _kickbacks

SCRANTON, Pa. – A former juvenile court judge who sent large numbers of children to detention centers was convicted Friday of racketeering for taking a $1 million kickback from the builder of the for-profit lockups, in what prosecutors said was a "kids for cash" scheme that ranks among the biggest courtroom frauds in U.S. history.

Former Luzerne County Judge Mark Ciavarella, 61, left the bench in disgrace two years ago after he and a second judge, Michael Conahan, were accused of using juvenile delinquents as pawns in a plot to get rich. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court has dismissed 4,000 juvenile convictions issued by Ciavarella, saying he sentenced young offenders without regard for their constitutional rights.

Federal prosecutors accused Ciavarella and Conahan of taking more than $2 million in bribes from the builder of the PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care detention centers and extorting hundreds of thousands of dollars from the facilities' co-owner.

A federal jury in Scranton convicted Ciavarella of 12 counts, including racketeering, money laundering and conspiracy, but acquitted him of 27 counts, including extortion. He is likely to get a prison sentence of more than 12 years, according to prosecutors — who revealed after the verdicts that a reputed mob boss turned informant helped them make their case.

Ciavarella insisted the payments were legal and denied that he incarcerated youths for money — a position he defiantly clung to even after he was convicted of a charge, racketeering, that federal prosecutors often use to go after mobsters.

"Never took a dime to send a kid anywhere. If that was the case, that would have been in this trial. Never happened. Never, ever happened. This case was about extortions and kickbacks, not about `kids for cash,'" said Ciavarella, who plans to appeal.

He was allowed to remain free pending sentencing, a decision that galled parents of juveniles who appeared before the judge. Ciavarella often ordered youths he had found delinquent to be immediately shackled, handcuffed and taken away without giving them a chance to say goodbye to their families. Some of the children he ordered locked up were as young as 10.

The mother of a former defendant who was jailed by Ciavarella — and who later killed himself — confronted the judge on the courthouse steps, screaming obscenities and even poking him as he and his attorneys held a news conference.

"My kid's not here anymore!" yelled Sandy Fonzo, whose son committed suicide last year at age 23. "He's dead! Because of him! He ruined my ... life! I'd like him to go to hell and rot there forever!"
Ciavarella glanced at Fonzo, then turned his back.

Fonzo's son, Edward Kenzakowski, was a 17-year-old all-star wrestler with no prior record when he landed in Ciavarella's courtroom for possession of drug paraphernalia. She said her son never recovered from the months he served at the detention centers and a wilderness camp.

Tears streaming down her face, Fonzo said she couldn't believe Ciavarella was allowed to walk out of the courthouse.

"There's no justice, there's not. He's never going to get what he deserves," she said. "I just wanted to see him handcuffed and taken out. But when I saw him just being released with that stupid smirk on his face ..."

The jury found Ciavarella guilty of taking a $997,600 kickback from Robert Mericle, the builder of the juvenile facilities — money he was ordered to forfeit to the federal government after the verdicts were announced. He was also convicted of failing to report the payments on his state-mandated financial disclosure forms and failing to pay taxes on the income. Jurors acquitted him of extorting Robert Powell, the facilities' developer and co-owner.

The defense declared victory. "We're amazed. The jury rejected 95 percent of the government's case," said attorney Al Flora.
"I find it interesting, " U.S. Attorney Peter Smith said in response, "that a man just convicted of racketeering is claiming any sort of a victory out there today. I wonder what he would consider a defeat."

continued,

W. Moore
02-19-2011, 01:28 PM
Prosecutors alleged that Conahan, who pleaded guilty to racketeering last year, and Ciavarella plotted to shut down the dilapidated county-run juvenile detention center in 2002 and arrange for the construction of the PA Child Care facility outside Wilkes-Barre.
Ciavarella, who presided over juvenile court, sent youths to the center and later to its sister facility in western Pennsylvania while he was taking payments from Mericle, a prominent builder and close friend of Ciavarella, and Powell, a high-powered attorney.

Luzerne County paid Powell's company more than $30 million between 2003 and 2007 to house juveniles at PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care. The county could have built its own juvenile center for about $9 million, according to testimony.

In dismissing thousands of Ciavarella's convictions, the state high court said he ran his courtroom with "complete disregard for the constitutional rights of the juveniles," including the right to legal counsel and the right to intelligently enter a plea.

Hundreds of youths and their families are suing Ciavarella and Conahan in federal court, but Smith said the judges' handling of juvenile cases did not figure into the federal prosecution for legal and evidentiary reasons.

"We're very sympathetic to the pain to the community that was caused here by the conduct of the defendant as a juvenile court judge, and we're fully aware of the deep anguish that many parents and many juveniles feel. But the federal criminal courts are not the appropriate venue to resolve that issue fully," he said.

Ciavarella, who took the stand in his own defense, acknowledged to jurors that he failed to report the payments on his tax returns and hid them from the public, but he denied any plot to take kickbacks or extort money.

Ciavarella told jurors that he thought he was legally entitled to Mericle's money, calling it a "finder's fee" for introducing Mericle to Powell.

Ciavarella also denied that he extorted Powell, who had testified for the prosecution that he was forced to pay the judges nearly $600,000 after they agreed to send juvenile delinquents to his new lockup. The payments were disguised as rent on a Florida condominium owned by the judges' wives.

It was Conahan who made the arrangements with Powell, Ciavarella insisted. He said Conahan told him that Powell had agreed to pay them $15,000 a month for 60 months to lease the waterfront Florida property. Prosecutors scoffed at that explanation, questioning why Powell would pay nearly $1 million in rent on a condo he could have purchased outright for less than $800,000.

Officials disclosed for the first time Friday that they were led to the judges by the reputed boss of a northeastern Pennsylvania Mafia family. William D'Elia — who regularly met for breakfast with Conahan — became a government informant after his 2006 arrest on charges of witness tampering and conspiracy to launder drug money.
"D'Elia led us to Judge Conahan," said Assistant U.S. Attorney Gordon Zubrod. "From there we began to focus on them, the financial dealings between Judge Conahan, Judge Ciavarella, Mericle, Powell."

D'Elia won a sentence reduction last year based on his cooperation in another criminal case and could be released as early as next year.
Ciavarella and Conahan initially pleaded guilty in February 2009 to honest services fraud and tax evasion in a deal that called for a sentence of more than seven years in prison. But their plea deals were rejected by Senior U.S. District Judge Edward M. Kosik, who ruled they had failed to accept responsibility for their actions.

A federal grand jury in Harrisburg subsequently indicted the judges on charges of racketeering, fraud, money laundering, bribery, extortion and tax offenses. Conahan pleaded guilty to a single racketeering charge last year and awaits sentencing. Mericle and Powell pleaded guilty to lesser offenses and testified against Ciavarella; both await sentencing.

Ciavarella faces a maximum of 157 years in prison at sentencing, but will more likely receive 12 1/2 years to about 15 1/2 years under federal sentencing guidelines, prosecutors said.

PA Child Care and Western PA Child Care remain open and continue to accept juveniles from many Pennsylvania counties, though Luzerne County no longer sends delinquents to them.

PennyQuilts
02-19-2011, 08:52 PM
The story of the judge sending the kids to residential treatment for a bribe makes me absolutely sick. Positively ill. The judges I have worked with involving kids simply are not like that. I can't imagine how such a psychopath can live with himself.

Dana
02-19-2011, 09:35 PM
The story of the judge sending the kids to residential treatment for a bribe makes me absolutely sick. Positively ill. The judges I have worked with involving kids simply are not like that. I can't imagine how such a psychopath can live with himself.Were those judges in Oklahoma? I would love to find out where there is an honest judge in juvenile court here in Oklahoma. Unfortunately the ones I know I have actually witnessed them breaking the law witholding evidence, dening due process etc.

PennyQuilts
02-19-2011, 09:39 PM
Most judges are honest, Dana. Judges dealing with these types of problems see it all and most of them "get" it. They might make poor calls from time to time but outright dishonesty like this is very rare.

kevinpate
02-19-2011, 11:19 PM
Dana, if you have what you claim to have, you're wasting your time grousing on a forum. You need to place your information with the Oklahoma Council on Judicial Complaints. 'The Council receives and investigates allegations of judicial misconduct and when appropriate can recommend intervention or discipline by the Supreme Court or the removal or mandatory retirement of a judge by the Court on the Judiciary. The Council has jurisdiction to investigate the conduct of all persons subject to the Oklahoma Code of Judicial Conduct, including state, municipal and administrative judges.'

For forms and contact info, see: http://www.okbar.org/public/judges/council.htm
Judges have been removed from office in this state in situations where valid evidence has been produced of wrongful conduct or oppression.


I don't know what you believe you have, nor do I need to. No one on a public forum has the ability to take down a judge for you. If you got the goods on someone, send it where it will do some good. Conversely, if what you have is anger, disappointment and a need to rant and rant and rant, save yourself the postage and have a nice cup of tea instead.

Midtowner
02-20-2011, 08:54 AM
Were those judges in Oklahoma? I would love to find out where there is an honest judge in juvenile court here in Oklahoma. Unfortunately the ones I know I have actually witnessed them breaking the law witholding evidence, dening due process etc.

Dana, that is utter BS. I've been before most of the judges who are in or have been in the DHS courts before and things are nothing like what you're implying.

Good people all the way 'round.