I'm still waiting on any type of reply from at least one council member. I have called or emailed each one including the mayor in regards to the Skydance Bridge being redesigned, not one reply as of today. Normally I hear back from at least one of them usually through an email.

The Skydance Bridge is a work of art and there must be a way to find the funding for this project. This bridge will be seen by more people than all the other MAPS projects combined. I am holding out hope that something is in the works for the Skydance Bridge to be built as it was intended.

It is a great design, and it must be built the way it was planned.

So, just curious...what do you all like about the MG Hill bridge here in Dallas? Or Dont like?


Maybe the scale is impressive, but it doesn't seem relevant or inspirational. There are some great bridges I've seen in the world. That one just seems out of place and confusing.

So, just curious...what do you all like about the MG Hill bridge here in Dallas? Or Dont like?

I think it's ugly to tell you the truth...

I have to agree. Unless it has a strong design element, its just ...well...Texas like. You know, EVERYTHINGs gotta be big. I'm sure with some lighting element it will be interesting to look at at night, but it lacks design element.
I Remember in an earlier discussion, we discussed the size is important but only if the design is worthy...like a big oil derrick would definitely get attention, but it sure would not bring as positive a reaction as the design element of the pedestian bridge that was proposed in OKC.

just an update this project is do to be let in march

BRIDGE & APPROACHES
I-40 CROSSTOWN: WP 1.4, PEDESTRIAN BRIDGE IN THE VICINITY OF HARVEY
17428(24) FFY 2011 AVE.
OKLAHOMA Div. 4 IS040 0.150 Mi. Let 03/2011 $3,500,000

Forgive my expansive ignorance, but what does "let" mean in this case? Put out for contract?

yes king, i believe that it means let out for bidding.

Any updates?

Any updates?

I don't see this project on ODOT's bid opening list so there must some kind of delay. Alos, they moved a paving project for the I-40 crosstown up two months.

Isn't this a city project, not ODOT?

I saw the latest 3d models the other day.

Very... Extremely, cool.

Particularly considering the design challenges that they faced in forced modification to the structure.

Isn't this a city project, not ODOT?

Yes. The bridge is run through a city contract.

I saw the latest 3d models the other day.

Very... Extremely, cool.

Particularly considering the design challenges that they faced in forced modification to the structure.

Does it look the same? Did they change much to the design?

Does it look the same? Did they change much to the design?

I'm not sure exactly what they would be willing to disclose yet. So I'd best keep my answer oblique.

But yes, the "form" of the structure is virtually the same. I do know that they are working hard to try to "soften" the bridge area itself after the change to a truss design due to ODoT.

I saw the latest 3d models the other day.

Very... Extremely, cool.

Particularly considering the design challenges that they faced in forced modification to the structure.


Links or pics by any chance?

Links or pics by any chance?

No. I do not.

I heard its supposed to resemble a scissor tail flycatcher..

I'm not sure exactly what they would be willing to disclose yet. So I'd best keep my answer oblique.

But yes, the "form" of the structure is virtually the same. I do know that they are working hard to try to "soften" the bridge area itself after the change to a truss design due to ODoT.

??? Reportedly the change from the cable to the truss design was due to escalating cost over runs. I do recall ODOT requirements modifying the width of the bridge so it could handle maintenance equipment or something like that. Is this what you meant?

Any new renderings of the changes?

I just wish ODOT just stay out of this. Its none of their business, really. They might as well overtake all the other projects, such as modifying a small business owner's parking lot. :-/

I don't disagree but the bridge does span the new I-40 and does have to meet certain requirements (even though the City is paying for it).

Any new renderings of the changes?

I just wish ODOT just stay out of this. Its none of their business, really. They might as well overtake all the other projects, such as modifying a small business owner's parking lot. :-/

Surely you realize the apples and oranges of your examples. Real life is a little more complex than your view.

??? Reportedly the change from the cable to the truss design was due to escalating cost over runs. I do recall ODOT requirements modifying the width of the bridge so it could handle maintenance equipment or something like that. Is this what you meant?

That's exactly what I mean. The "forced" cahnges were to make the bridge capable of handling heavy maintenance equipment and emergency vehicles.

A suspension bridge has cables that provide a "semi-enclosed" atmosphere which is "softer" in a way. The change to a truss design is going to require a more detailed assessment on how to maintain a "pleasurable" pedestrian experience over a 12 lane highway since the "sense of enclosure" inherent to a suspension bridge is lost.

I agree with Thunder. While it goes over their highway, they should have left the designers alone.

My memory tells me that ODOT is paying for the bridge. OKC is paying for the scissor tail.

My memory tells me that ODOT is paying for the bridge. OKC is paying for the scissor tail.

According to the eight year work plan ODOT has budgeted $3.5 million towards the cost of the bridge. I think that entitles them to some say in the design along with the city, as partners. Inspection of bridges is a maintenance reality, this bridge will have (or was supposed to have) hard to reach components and they'll need to be accessed, if not internally, from its surface. As opposed to the 10 lane highway below.

Urban Pioneer, in the latest renderings you saw did you see any cables? Have they been omitted completely?

My memory tells me that ODOT is paying for the bridge. OKC is paying for the scissor tail.

Ok, now I am confused, will have to check my stockpile...LOL

No. I did not see cables in the model. It is the sculpture and the truss.

My memory tells me that ODOT is paying for the bridge. OKC is paying for the scissor tail.

This is correct.

Same for the boulevard, if anyone is wondering why they're dictating that project. Maybe City Hall should actually pay for some of the C2S infrastructure??

I found this to be an interesting pedestrian bridge in Omaha. http://www.bostonmuseum.org/images/photos/bridges/kerrey.jpg

Seems like a lot of wasted space

That would be a long walk made longer by the circle. There should be an additional access point as people get off the van.

I found this to be an interesting pedestrian bridge in Omaha. http://www.bostonmuseum.org/images/photos/bridges/kerrey.jpg

If that's a pedestrian bridge, I don't understand it's purpose. It doesn't seem to connect anything in particular if that depiction is correct.

If that's a pedestrian bridge, I don't understand it's purpose. It doesn't seem to connect anything in particular if that depiction is correct.

That's the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge. Its primary purpose is to connect Nebraska trails with Iowa trails. The federal government paid for it thus the reason for the name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kerrey_Pedestrian_Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trails_in_Omaha

That's the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge. Its primary purpose is to connect Nebraska trails with Iowa trails. The federal government paid for it thus the reason for the name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Kerrey_Pedestrian_Bridge
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trails_in_Omaha

OK, it really is an elaborate bridge for just connecting a trail system then. Leave it to the federal government. LOL

If that's a pedestrian bridge, I don't understand it's purpose. It doesn't seem to connect anything in particular if that depiction is correct.
This will help you out:

http://maps.google.com/maps?gl=us&sll=41.252363,-95.997988&sspn=0.268715,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=41.265598,-95.922253&spn=0.009822,0.022337&t=h&z=16

That's the Bob Kerrey Pedestrian Bridge. Its primary purpose is to connect Nebraska trails with Iowa trails. The federal government paid for it thus the reason for the name.


Connecting two trail systems is NOT the primary purpose - hince the name.

Has anyone heard or seen any updates on when this project will begin in earnest? I am curious to see what it will look like in its revised configuation.

Just recently there was an article about the city having to use eminent domain to obtain the junk yard just east of Union Station where this bridge will be placed.

Not sure how long that process will take but I'm sure they won't start until they can get ownership of that land.

I hope the little family that lives north of that junk yard, doesn't try to put up a fight when the city tries to buy them out. I'm sure they won't since they're probably aware of what's going on around them...

I hope the little family that lives north of that junk yard, doesn't try to put up a fight when the city tries to buy them out. I'm sure they won't since they're probably aware of what's going on around them...

I hope they do put up a fight. I hope they get much more $ than that property is worth.

If Mayor Cornett is willing to use eminent domain (if OKC does use it) to force these people to vacate then why can't he use eminent domain to make the utility company vacate instead of promising to pay $30 mil WHICH WAS NOT APPROVED BY VOTERS to move their utility lines.

Stop subsidizing the big multi-million dollar companies and stop screwing the little guy.

I hope they do put up a fight. I hope they get much more $ than that property is worth.

If Mayor Cornett is willing to use eminent domain (if OKC does use it) to force these people to vacate then why can't he use eminent domain to make the utility company vacate instead of promising to pay $30 mil WHICH WAS NOT APPROVED BY VOTERS to move their utility lines.

Stop subsidizing the big multi-million dollar companies and stop screwing the little guy.

wow where to start ...

they won't get much more than the property is worth ... the city will offer them fair value plus relocation expenses more for a business .. less for a family ..

for the oge site the city can eminent domain it .. then they would have to pay fair value plus relocation expenses .. for the sub station ..

again as the city has said more than once the 30mil is a guess on the cost .. it could be less ..

If memory serves, at the time eminent domain proceedings were started, a city rep. noted that negotiations were still underway. The ED was begun because it is not a zip right through process. So if the direct negotiations do fail, they will already be beyond day one for the ED process. They'd be kinda nuts to not negotiate in good faith, and by They, i mean both sides.

wow where to start ...

they won't get much more than the property is worth ... the city will offer them fair value plus relocation expenses more for a business .. less for a family ..

for the oge site the city can eminent domain it .. then they would have to pay fair value plus relocation expenses .. for the sub station ..

again as the city has said more than once the 30mil is a guess on the cost .. it could be less ..

That's alright...

But just don't use any MAPS money because it wasn't part of the original plan. Get it from somewhere else.

wow where to start ...

they won't get much more than the property is worth ... the city will offer them fair value plus relocation expenses more for a business .. less for a family ..

for the oge site the city can eminent domain it .. then they would have to pay fair value plus relocation expenses .. for the sub station ..

again as the city has said more than once the 30mil is a guess on the cost .. it could be less ..

Except the original estimate was more IIRC about $70-$75MM. City Manager stated in Council recently that the $30MM does NOT include relocating the transmission lines. May end up being like the I-40 relocation that originally included the tear down and replacement cost for building the Boulevard. As costs escalated, they kept sub-dividing the project (so the cost over runs wouldn't look so bad). Now the Boulevard isn't even included in the cost. But when you add all of the sub-parts back together, the cost as more than doubled. And is a few years behind schedule.

Perhaps the bridge might also be called the Goat-head... named for those thorn-like things that grow oh so well in southwestern Oklahoma (Altus area). OUCH!!!!

Off topic... Goat head? I've always called them Devil's Claws... did you know that when they are smaller and soft they are edible? A lot like okra.

Except the original estimate was more IIRC about $70-$75MM. City Manager stated in Council recently that the $30MM does NOT include relocating the transmission lines. May end up being like the I-40 relocation that originally included the tear down and replacement cost for building the Boulevard. As costs escalated, they kept sub-dividing the project (so the cost over runs wouldn't look so bad). Now the Boulevard isn't even included in the cost. But when you add all of the sub-parts back together, the cost as more than doubled. And is a few years behind schedule.

of course it doesn't include the lines .. they run all across the park ... they are goign to have to be moved or burried if the sub station stays or goes

Except the original estimate was more IIRC about $70-$75MM. City Manager stated in Council recently that the $30MM does NOT include relocating the transmission lines. May end up being like the I-40 relocation that originally included the tear down and replacement cost for building the Boulevard. As costs escalated, they kept sub-dividing the project (so the cost over runs wouldn't look so bad). Now the Boulevard isn't even included in the cost. But when you add all of the sub-parts back together, the cost as more than doubled. And is a few years behind schedule.

I remember an article in the DOK a few months back. $30 million is the low end and will for sure end up costing more. The article stated Cornett was at a council meeting and the powers that be said relocating the substation would cost more (probably the $70+ million figure given). Cornett called that committee into a side office and then, shazam!!!, the committee came out of the side office and was now spouting the $30 million figure we hear now.

Slick Mick sure does want that substation moved very much doesn't he?

of course it doesn't include the lines .. they run all across the park ... they are goign to have to be moved or burried if the sub station stays or goes

I agree the transmission lines definitely are unsightly and not something you want to have running across the new park. The point was that moving them is not included in the $30MM relocation earmark. Am sure the City Manager pointed it out to make sure Council members were aware of it.

and i was pointing out that if we dont' move the substation (box it cover it whatever) we still are going to spend lots and lots of money putting the lines underground. so they are really different costs .. 1 is going to happen either way (the lines) 1 might or might not the substation

the skydance bridge is on the council agenda next tuesday (the 21st) to be let for bid

Is there ever going to be public renderings of this bridge?

I hope so, but it definitely ain't going to be the original.

I hope so, but it definitely ain't going to be the original.

Indeed. Prepare yourself for stylized "feathers".

approved by city council and out for bid...

So, what is the design that is out for bid. That should be public knowledge since it is being bid publicly.

I'm told by a person directly involved in the design (not city side) that the final design is actually better than what was initially presented to the public.

If that's the truth, then great news. I'd still like to see a rendering.

I'm told by a person directly involved in the design (not city side) that the final design is actually better than what was initially presented to the public.

Steve, I know you have journalistic integrity, and your sources are impeccable, but this can't be true. We all know that once the city or any governing body gets involved it gets cheapened, mucked up, and goes out to bid to friends who will cheat us.

Sorry....couldn't resist.

What is amazing to me is that this forum blames the city for the cable not being included when they should be blaming the design team. They were tasked with bringing in a project that would not exceed 5 million dollars in cost and did not. If memory serves they were given extra money to redesign it, when in my opinion that should been covered by the original fees they were paid.

What is amazing to me is that this forum blames the city for the cable not being included when they should be blaming the design team. They were tasked with bringing in a project that would not exceed 5 million dollars in cost and did not. If memory serves they were given extra money to redesign it, when in my opinion that should been covered by the original fees they were paid.

Good point.