Ok here goes lets see if I can do this. I found this site from a friend who thought this site could maybe help me. I am a grandmother who's only grandchild has been kidnapped and I am desperate for help. He has been taken by DHS for the Adoption Incentive Bonus program. He was not neglected, abused or anything else but loved. They are mad at me because they tried to take him twice before and I knew they were breaking the law so they didn't get him. So they waited for me to go to work and then knocked on my door when my daughter answered they came in chased her through the house and ripped him right out of her arms. Since then they have lied to the judge(Larry D. Shaw) they doctored a drug test which I can prove. Now they want her to go to drug counseling for a drug problem they fabricated all this to keep us from Evan(my grandson). I never thought they could come in your house and just take children and put them up for Adoption just cause they want to I now know that is not true. DHS can do whatever they want and nobody will stop them because they are all scared. I am not scared I just don't have the law degree it will take to stop them. I did manage to fine one person in this town who wasn't scared and she agreed to put a piece of my story on T.V. if you follow this link you can see it.
YouTube - Oklahoma DHS Corruption (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLIRFtZ1m64)

I am not a lawyer or anything, but I have a little experience down there.

They can't adopt out the child without terminating the rights of the parents and they can't do that without a jury trial.

My advice is to not try to win the short term battles cause you can't, they have too much power. Play for the long haul and get an attorney who understands the process and put your family in a situation where they can't terminate the rights.

You may have to deal with them for over a thosand days and spend thousands of dollars like we have, but eventually they have to answer to the law. However, they can pull some really nasty tricks on you in the meantime that you need to watch out for.

Oh ya, and you should remind yourself that you are not dealing with DHS. There is no panel of people that are discussing your case. There is no oversight or something that will double check to make sure things are going well. The juvenile oversight commite will only make sure that specific policies were followed, they will not and can not determine if the right decision was made.

You are dealing with one person, the case worker. You won't get a second one unless that one quits. No one else will ever listen to anything you say until the termination hearing.

Good luck.

I tell you that because you need to know that there is nothing wrong with the "system" because there is no "system" to have a problem. You are dealing with an individual who has a lot of power.

Dana faces the same situation that many in Oklahoma County face...no money means no legal representation. Without adequate legal representation, essentially you are left without any means to enforce your rights.

What can she do?

Dennis
Oklahoma City

Here is some advise from a retired DHS caseworker (who is angry with current DHS procedures) that I recently received in a case I am trying to help with.

I would suggest you include those drug tests in a letter to the judge supporting your daughter and tell the judge of this incident. Any letters to the judge needs to be notarized with 2 witness' sigs and submitted to the court clerk a week or so before the next court date. I have found out this is the best way to have the judge hear your side. I didn't know just anyone could do this until recently.

Its my understanding 2 things happen up front: the first is the referree hearing where a temporary judge makes the judgement that CPS had grounds to take your child. I've only known once when a hired lawyer was able to go in & get the judge to rule the "kidnapping" didn't have grounds. I know of one other case where the caseworker supervisor didn't want a particular mother to lose her baby (3 other children in custody) so she circumvented the referee hearing and by talking to the DA with her support, they allowed the mother to keep her baby with her while declaring her to still be in DHS custody. But normally right up front a judgement has been made that CPS had grounds to remove the child - and they've normally never let you or a witness say a word.

The next thing they get you to do at your first court appearance, I believe, is to stipulate to the charges. This means you (the mother) admits to being guilty to the charges. They don't say that and I've watched them brush it off like its nothing, "just sign here." But thats whats happened. So if your daughter has "stipulated" then you can forget saying it was unjust because she's said she's guilty. I understand if you don't stipulate you get a "bench trial." I don't know what that is or what to expect from that. It sounded like a threat.

In return for stipulating, hopefully the judge will order the caseworker to give you a case plan, a plan of action to regain custody of your own child and assign you an atty that normally doesn't care and doesn't want you to take up much of their time.

If you are poor it can be very difficult to make it to classes when you don't have a car. I know a truckdriver who normally makes good money but he can't do that now because he wouldn't make the classes. So now he works at Walmart and brings in about $200./wk or 2wks - I don't remember - and his bills and rent that he has to have before kids can return are more than he brings in. But he can't go to work because he needs to be there for the classes. And another mother who was terminated when she got sick and didn't make it to her court date, but
DHS says they don't want to hear excuses or that its anybody elses fault.

The retired caseworker's advice is to do everything that is on the case plan as soon as possible. Include letters from supportive people to the judge before every court appearance, notorized with 2 sig. Sponsors. relatives. employers. Anyone that can serve witness. Ask for copies of the court records that are distributed to all the players at every court appearance, so you know what is being said. Make sure that the judge is getting true information.

It seems, at those hearings, that everyone is against the mother. There is an atty for the child, for the father, the DA, DHS, sometimes CASA or Guaridan ad litems, and most everyone is generally against the parents. You really have to work hard to overcome this. If you are poor, it can be almost impossible.

The solution the case worker proposes is that it should be a felony for anyone to lie in a juvenile case, especially the DHS caseworker. She thinks that no parents rights should ever be terminated if no harm ever came to that child. But it happens every day. If contempt of court is a crime, I think they should probably just come lock me up.

If there ever is a groundswell of people that want to change this scenario and want to preserve the dignity of motherhood and family, count me in. Poverty should not be a crime. children shouldl not be removed from their parents when they have come to no harm. The punishment should fit the crime and this is way out of line. Its almost like a death sentence for the parent when they take these kids away, and its none too good for the kid. I've seen plenty of kids from DHS custody repeat this cycle and lose their kids to the system that formed them. Can't you sue DHS for what happened to your son? But who would take it on.

Its my understanding 2 things happen up front: the first is the referree hearing where a temporary judge makes the judgement that CPS had grounds to take your child ... But normally right up front a judgement has been made that CPS had grounds to remove the child - and they've normally never let you or a witness say a word.

It isn't a temporary judge, it is just a referee. They call it a "show cause" hearing. The parents do not even have to be notified about the show cause hearing and have no rights to testify, speak, or even attend. They merely just show that they had cause, and by show.. they just have to state a reason. They don't have to show any evidence or even prove a point, it isn't before a judge anyway.



The next thing they get you to do at your first court appearance, I believe, is to stipulate to the charges. This means you (the mother) admits to being guilty to the charges. They don't say that and I've watched them brush it off like its nothing, "just sign here." But thats whats happened. So if your daughter has "stipulated" then you can forget saying it was unjust because she's said she's guilty. I understand if you don't stipulate you get a "bench trial." I don't know what that is or what to expect from that. It sounded like a threat.

Well, first it depends on what we are talking about. If DHS is trying to terminate your rights, you don't get a bench trial.. you get a jury trial. You should not admit to anything, talk to anyone, or do anything but speak to a lawyer in that instance.

If they are not terminating rights, than they are going to try and make the child a ward of the state by trying to get the child adjudicated deprived. You get a bench trial, and the point of that trial is simple. It is not to determine if you did anything wrong, it is to determine if the allegation against you is supported by evidence.

The sick irony is that it is important to disprove something that can not be proved. If they have a weak case against you, you won't be able to prove that you are innocent. If they have any evidence against you at all, they will win this bench trial. The theory(which is different than reality) is because they are not trying to punish you, only help provide services to the family of the child and fix whatever was wrong. Your chance of winning at a bench trial is next to nothing, especially with a judge like Shaw who is terrified to make any waves and go against DHS.

Well, there is a difference between admitting guilt and stipulating to the evidence. There might be times where it is best to admit that the evidence exists, but never admit to doing anything wrong.

Regardless of the outcome.. you will either stipulate or lose your bench trial and after that is over the court will order you to take a "strengths and needs" analysis. You sit down and tell DHS about your life, they judge you and write mean things up in a report, and they assign you an "ISP" (Individualized Service Plan)

The ISP will state why the child was found deprived and what needs to be corrected. It will included sections like different risk factors and what the parent needs to do to address them. Perfect example will be like...

Risk Factor: Child Well Being - Developmental
To Do: Will enroll with a DHS and court-approved parenting program. Will participate fully in the recommended courses and activies. Will successfully complete the recommended courses and activities with full attendance. Will follow all recommendations of the parenting instructors. Will be able to display learned parenting techniques during parent/child visitation and discuss these parenting skills with DHS. Will provide the case worker and the court with a copy of all certificates and completion.

You'll see that on every single ISP, but the other ones will depend on the details of the case. Once you complete everything on your ISP, the judge will close your case and everyone can go home. The catch is that they can modify your ISP at any time. If you get mad at any point, they can have anger management added for example. They can order you to do things that are impossible or even unconstitutional.

If you fail to complete your ISP in a certain amount of time, they will move to terminate your rights. That will be a jury trial and at that trial the original allegation will not be up for discussion. The two things they have to show the jury is that you failed to correct the condition that caused your child to be deprived(you didn't complete the ISP) and that there is no bond between you and your child.

Don't be too excited about that, the only person that will testify about the bond between you and your child is the caseworker. If the jury sees is their way, you never get to see your child again.



It seems, at those hearings, that everyone is against the mother. There is an atty for the child, for the father, the DA, DHS, sometimes CASA or Guaridan ad litems, and most everyone is generally against the parents. You really have to work hard to overcome this. If you are poor, it can be almost impossible.

Haha, even when you are rich it is impossible. They can and will say anything too! They pretty much just go off of what the caseworker tells them and parrot it like fools. None of them actually look into anything themselves. Not one of those people above have contacted my brother at any time to discuss his case to talk to him about any of the issues.


The solution the case worker proposes is that it should be a felony for anyone to lie in a juvenile case, especially the DHS caseworker. She thinks that no parents rights should ever be terminated if no harm ever came to that child. But it happens every day. If contempt of court is a crime, I think they should probably just come lock me up.

You hit the nail on the head. The biggest complaint I hear about caseworkers is that they lie. They are not officers of the court and they are not under oath like a witness so it isn't illegal or wrong for them to lie. They legally can say whatever they want and they know it.

Some of the things they lie about they have no reason to lie about, it is really sick. This may seem like a small deal, but it is cut and dry and a perfect example. I remember when our caseworker told the court that the father purchased the child a video game with the word "damn" in it, but if go online and look at the script for the game the word simply isn't in the game. Why would they make something like that up? Cause they can.

Many of them are of the philosophy that the ends justify the means, so if they think you are evil they are justified in lying.

Stop and think about why someone would want to be a caseworker in the first place. You have a lot of people who were horribly abused as children who are going out to right the wrongs in the world. Due to the fact that they never received the psychological treatment that they needed they are unable to correctly perceive reality and their bias just comes through and hurts the child.


If there ever is a groundswell of people that want to change this scenario and want to preserve the dignity of motherhood and family, count me in. Poverty should not be a crime. children shouldl not be removed from their parents when they have come to no harm. The punishment should fit the crime and this is way out of line. Its almost like a death sentence for the parent when they take these kids away, and its none too good for the kid. I've seen plenty of kids from DHS custody repeat this cycle and lose their kids to the system that formed them. Can't you sue DHS for what happened to your son? But who would take it on.

It isn't easy to sue DHS, but it is happening.

There will never be a groundswell though. All of the information people need to make informed decisions about DHS is confidential. We have no way to know if Dana is accurately describing what her situation really is, many people in the system are so confused about what is going on that they make really bad decisions. If I could look at her case file I could probably give her a good idea of where she is at, but it is illegal for me to do so.

Objective third parties can not point out errors in the systems or abusive caseworkers, because everything is confidential.

Why were they trying to take your grandson in the first place? You say that he wasn't abused or anything but they tried twice before to take him. What is the reason that they had targeted you to take this child?

Dana, have you tried to procure legal services from Legal Aid?

Legal Aid Services of Oklahoma, Inc. (http://www.legalaidok.org/)

Best of luck.

The first time they said it was because she fell asleep with him on her chest they call it co-sleeping and said it is against the law since then they have made up 7 more reasons and even doctored a drug test to try and say she is on drugs. I had another independant test run at S.O.S. and she was negative for everything an 1 1/2 hours after they did theirs.

yes tried legal aide nobody will touch DHS

yes tried legal aide nobody will touch DHS

Have you tried contacting the local media to tell them your story?

Have you tried contacting the local media to tell them your story?

Yes she posted this link in her first message.
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Yes she posted this link in her first message.
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Thanks, I overlooked that.

The bench trial is set for Sept. 30, 2008

BTW Toadrax, thanks for clarifying so much of my post. Your response was really helpful to me. I don't know that it makes much difference but thanks.

The bench trial is set for Sept. 30, 2008

Dana, I'm so sorry about what you and your family has gone through. I've been thinking about what I would do in a situation like yours. Here's some thoughts that come to mind. First of all, if you cannot afford an attorney you might consider getting on the phone and call some prominent attorneys in OKC to see if any of them would be willing to take your case pro bono. You absolutely need an attorney, you simply cannot fight this on your own.

In addition to getting yourself a good attorney, you might also consider contacting these three people at the Fox News network in NYC.

Greta Van Susteran at Ontherecord@foxnews.com

Megan Kelly at americasnewsroom@foxnews.com

Kimberly Guilfoyle Lineup@foxnews.com

All of these women are attorneys and they have their own program on Fox News. These women are all very sharp attorneys and very possibly one of them might take an interest in your story. If you decide to contact them, be sure to include the link to the local Fox news report and give them a very brief summary of your story. Include your phone number, email address, mailing address, fax, etc. There is a chance one of them will contact you and possibly air your story. If your story gets aired on Fox News, there might be an attorney who hears of this and offers to take your case pro bono. I know it's a long shot, but what do you have to lose?

I am no expert at this, I'm just sharing what I would do if I were in your shoes. Perhaps others on this forum will weigh in and share their ideas as well. I hope this helps. You are in my prayers.

I just read all this and I am absolutely sickened.

It's absolutely ridiculous that huge life shattering decisions are based on one little case worker's opinion. Absolutely asinine.

So, what part does the Oklahoma Commission on Children and Youth play in all this? The news piece mentioned it at the end. Do they provide some sort of oversight? I mean where is the accountability?

I am going to call and ask about procedures because this is asinine.

Send that video to every newspaper and news agency in the state and country.

I'm curious though, other than the co-sleeping, what reason did they give to take the baby from your daughter? Did I miss it?

The faked drug test seems like the other reason.

Dana, what makes you think that they targeted your grandson for the Adoption Incentive Bonus program?

Why did they try to take him twice before?

Just curious. I really want to help here.

Typically, even when the biological parent screws up DHS usually gives the nearest and next relative temporary custody while the parents get their act together.

It's usually a last resort to adopt a child out and they usually put a child with a relative before they put a child into foster care from my experience.

So, what part does the Oklahoma Commission on Children and Youth play in all this? The news piece mentioned it at the end. Do they provide some sort of oversight? I mean where is the accountability?

I said it in my post above, but it was kind of long so it might not have stood out. They merely make sure that DHS policy is followed. OKDHS.org - Policy Online (http://www.okdhs.org/library/policy/) If DHS policy is not being followed, than they can complain and point it out.

However, DHS caseworkers have incredibly leeway in making decisions.. There is not even a policy that says that they have to tell the truth. In many places it is all about the "best interest of the child", but there are no policies that determine what the "best interest of the child" means. It is kind of like saying "the will of God".

Perfect example. They were able to help us one time when we have video evidence that my niece was being physically beaten by the people that they had placed her with. It was against policy for the caseworker to ignore our evidence and not even look at it, so they were able to make her watch the tape. Once she watched the tape it was within her policy to decide that our claim was bogus and that is what the caseworker did.


I am going to call and ask about procedures because this is asinine.

Well, the actual theory behind it all is sound. The reality of what actually happens is kind of sick. Parents that did nothing wrong are all going to say that the caseworker lied, but parents who did a lot wrong are all going to say that the caseworker lied. No one is charged with keeping them honest, and since all of the records are confidential no one volunteer to keep them honest.

We have no way to tell if Dana is telling the truth or not.. She might be or she might not. Since you can not even go to court with her and see what goes on(they won't let you in unless you are a party to the case), you have to take her word for it.

People have a hard time just taking peoples word for outrageous claims, so not many people fully believe you when you complain. You'll never know for certain until it happens to you, and it can happen to anyone. No child has grown up without something happening that DHS could get involved in, and if you end up with a bad caseworker it could turn into another tragedy.

They didn't take him twice they tried but I was here and knew they were breaking the law so they waited for me to go to work and then came back. Then they took advantage of my daughter not knowing anything about the law and of course once they got him they weren't about to give him back.

Channel 25 is the only one who will touch this story everybody else is afraid of DHS there are even lawyers who won't touch them. I do know of one lawyer that tried and while he was in court proving DHS lied they went to his house and took his child from his wife.

Why do you think DHS target you to begin with?

Yes I informed them of that policy but they still won't give him to me either. They put him in shelter and he is now in foster care waiting for them to find a way to terminate. I went to the DA and was able to stop their first attempt to terminate. I also don't think that a person with a criminal history should not be allowed to work in a position that makes decisions concerning children. I figure if you can't handle your own affairs you should not be allowed to make decisions concerning other peoples affairs. I have a clean record I can prove this because I am a volunteer for Red Cross and it is mandatory to have a background check run to volunteer for them. However the caseworker has a currant warrant for her arrest unfortunately not in Oklahoma county if it was I would have already had her arrested. She also has had felony charges brought against her and 2 misdemeanors all for writing hot checks. I have never written a hot check in my life. She has been sued twice because she owed people money and wouldn't pay so they sued her and were able to get her wages garnished. I normally am not the kind of person who judges anybody but I figure if you are going to dig around in my life and make up lies I have the right to dig in your life and see what I can find. Her record is easily accessible on OSCN which is where I found most of the charges that I found. I on the other hand have never been arrested, no criminal record, and I own my house free and clear which proves I can handle my finances. This whole thing just doesn't make any since to me other than the fact of the money they are going to make off of him so far I have not been able to find any other reason why they are doing this. I know the worker also doesn't like white people but that is not reason enough to steal a child so I am still at a loss as to why my grandson.

How did DHS find him in the first place? Did somebody call them? Did they just randomly stop by?

yes tried legal aide nobody will touch DHSHave you contacted your State Representitive and/or State Senator?

She was at the Home for Unwed Mothers after the father of her baby came to my house and tried to kill her. I moved her there for protection because I couldn't stay home with her because I have to work. The home is the one who made the first call they turn her in for falling asleep while burping him after a feeding. I know it sounds insane but that is truely what happened.

Yes I have contacted 3 senators 3 representatives and the governor. I have also contacted Howard Hendricks the administrator for DHS. I have also contacted OCCY, the childrens rights association and several other associations. I have been told by some they will investigate I can only hope they are not lying too. I have also given copies of the doctored drug tests and the workers criminal history to all these people.

Yes I have contacted 3 senators 3 representatives and the governor. I have also contacted Howard Hendricks the administrator for DHS. I have also contacted OCCY, the childrens rights association and several other associations. I have been told by some they will investigate I can only hope they are not lying too. I have also given copies of the doctored drug tests and the workers criminal history to all these people.It's good to have hope. Good luck, and I hope you get justice.

Dana,

I am so proud of you for getting on here and sharing your story with everyone. I hope others will follow your lead and speak up as well.

I'll be in touch with you soon.

Dennis
Oklahoma City

Dennis and Jacob's Page - Children Need Both Parents (http://cnbpinc.ning.com/profile/Dennis)

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff290/jacodenn/NO20cps.jpg

Oh good lord. Why would ANYONE believe this ridiculous story? She knew they were breaking the law so hid the child, twice? Oh, come on. Don't be gullible.

I am so lost on this story...

1) Mom falls asleep while burping the baby and DHS automatically deems her unfit and tries to remove the baby?

2) DHS drug tests the mom to bolster their case and Grandma determines it's a false test so that DHS can get funds because of an adoption fee?

3) Grandma feels DHS has a vendetta ( why ) and hides the baby?

Am I missing some crucial pieces to this puzzle?

This just doesn't make sense to me.

I was a certified foster parent for years in the state of California for abused and neglected children. I know OK is a little different than CA, but even still, this is a huge stretch of my imagination to believe that a state agency would dream of taking a baby from it's biological parent for any reason other than great suspicions of neglect or abuse.

Grandma, you might have to admit that your daughter may have been negligent in some areas that you may not know about.

The key is to get DHS on your side so that you can get temporary custody of your grandson while your daughter gets it together.

My nephew was taken from my sister when he was one year old.. I was distraught, devastated and did everything humanly possible to get this baby back. I told the case worker what he needed to hear and made no excuses for my sister or his father. I would do anything and everything in my power to take care of this baby, my sister could go to jail for all I cared, I wanted the baby home with people who loved him and she needed to get her crap together.. in the meantime, I'd take my nephew and take care of him. I, and my mom, were at every meeting, court appearance etc and we got temporary custody of my nephew while my sister went to rehab.

She has been clean and sober close to 20 years and my nephew is still one of the great loves of my life.

So, my story is this, I would and did what I had to do to protect my nephew and get him out of the system and I've never regretted it.

If I had gone in complaining about how they handled it and took the baby away, blah, blah, I would have never have gotten him back. It was the right thing to do.

It's a horrible place to be in... even so many years later, I'll never forget the horror of imagining my nephew with strangers even for a few days, it was the most heartbreaking thing I've ever gone through.

Good luck to you, if it's not too late, try to get someone at DHS on your side.

2) DHS drug tests the mom to bolster their case and Grandma determines it's a false test so that DHS can get funds because of an adoption fee?

To be fare she did have her daughter retested an hour and a half later that showed her negative for any drugs.

But I agree that taking custody of the baby would have been a wiser choice.

I believe she said she was ineligible for kinship placement because her son had been taken into DHS custody previously.. or I've read so many supposed DHS horror stories in the last few days that I may have her confused with someone else.

Oh good lord. Why would ANYONE believe this ridiculous story? She knew they were breaking the law so hid the child, twice? Oh, come on. Don't be gullible.I guess it's because us real Okies are just not as smart as you East Coast Okies. You state that "she knew they were breaking the law so hid the child, twice?" I feel like such a fool. I don't want to be gullible. Questions. Who is she? Who are they? Who is breaking the law? Which law did they break? Who hid the child? Was it the tears that gave her away? Do you have actual knowledge this is all nothing but a lie? Do you have the facts that prove this ridiculous story to be untrue? Please share with us your insight and your vast wisdom.

[QUOTE=GuyB;168332]To be fare she did have her daughter retested an hour and a half later that showed her negative for any drugs.

QUOTE]

You don't know anything about the second drug test or if it was valid.

I guess it's because us real Okies are just not as smart as you East Coast Okies. You state that "she knew they were breaking the law so hid the child, twice?" I feel like such a fool. I don't want to be gullible. Questions. Who is she? Who are they? Who is breaking the law? Which law did they break? Who hid the child? Was it the tears that gave her away? Do you have actual knowledge this is all nothing but a lie? Do you have the facts that prove this ridiculous story to be untrue? Please share with us your insight and your vast wisdom.

"She" is Dana and SHE is the one who said DHS tried twice to take the baby but she "knew" it was against the law. Did you listen to the video or read her posts? I have no idea what law she is claiming DHS was breaking that justified her hiding the child. You'd have to ask her. I am only going on what she is claiming in the post that you apparently didn't read.

You've got someone who already had a son in foster care. Why? She doesn't say. She claims he committed suicide after being sexually abused in foster care - she describes it in pretty gory detail and with relish, on the video. Did she file a lawsuit? She doesn't mention that. Were there criminal charges? She didn't say. Did she describe what steps were taken to prosecute the foster family that llegedly abused her son? She didn't say.

She had a daughter in an unwed mother's home. These days. An unwed mothers home. huh. She says DHS came up with 7 additional reasons to take the grandbaby in addition to the mother sleeping with him. She claims they did a drug test (why????) that came up positive and that she did one an hour later with a different result. Has it been validated? Are you aware that the reason they do random and surprise drug tests for kids in foster care and on probation is because they take steps to dilute them if they know they are coming? One done an hour and a half later when she knows it is coming is not worth the paper it is written on. Oh, the only conclusion is that DHS and the lab faked the original report. Why would they do that? Oh, and she claims the father of the grandbaby tried to murder the unwed mother.

Maybe this sounds like a typical day in your world, but in mine, even on the east coast, all that sounds pretty suspect.

Are we to conclude East Coast Okie, that you are suggesting that the first piece of paper held up by Dana in the video is a "valid" drug screen (the one conducted by DHS), and that the second piece of paper held up by Dana in the same video, the second drug screen is not "valid" because it was not conducted by DHS?

How do we even know that you are a GAL as you claim to be?

Are we to conclude East Coast Okie, that you are suggesting that the first piece of paper held up by Dana in the video is a "valid" drug screen (the one conducted by DHS), and that the second piece of paper held up by Dana in the same video, the second drug screen is not "valid" because it was not conducted by DHS?

How do we even know that you are a GAL as you claim to be?

Well, since you seem to take the word of anyone with a tale to tale, I don't know why you would suddenly get skeptical. :)

I have no idea what sorts of papers she was tossing around. I guess you have to take her word for it.

As I read ECO's post, the suggestion appears to be the first drug test, being a random and unprepped for testing for substances, could reasonably be expected to produce a different result than a planned for test.

That's not an astonishing position all in all. Possibly not applicable to facts at hand, but not astonishing in the generic sense

ahhh, so if I'm reading this correctly, Dana are you saying that DHS is being vindictive because of prior claims that your own son was sexually abused in the system ?

If Dana's son was taken away but then given back once the home was deemed appropiate, there is no reason now why as a biological grandmother she shouldn't have been given the option over a foster home.

Unless, the home was not safe for the baby ( I thought I read a reference regarding cleanliness - can you shed any light on why they would let you ( Dana) keep the baby while your daughter got help.....

I agree that - thats why I always try to go for a hair folicle. There's no doctoring that one and it should provide indisputable evidence going back quite a while.
But here's another something to consider. I investigated this mystical diluted result causing a test to be considered positive by DHS because I knew this mother was not using. I want you to know that you can contest it with SOS. Thats because an expert in this field told me that protocol calls for a diluted to be retested in another manner (any test site should know) to prove whether the diluted actually signifies a positive or not. In the case to which I'm referring the mother asked to be informed if she had a diluted and she would run back up and pay a minimal amount to do the retest. Every single time it proved she was not positive. Maybe about 20 times. This was the difference in her child being returned to her or not! And DHS does not provide this retest or even tell anyone that it is available. How many children have been lost due to this negligence?

I didn't hide the child I just stopped them from breaking the law and that is why they waited until I went to work. Even the policeman who came out here said the same thing that is why he would not take the child. I understand when it comes to any matters dealing with DHS will protect them no matter what even if they know they are breaking the law. For your information the worker is the one with a criminal record not me I have never even had a traffic ticket.

My daughter is not on drugs I proved that and she is not the one with the problem the worker is the one with the criminal history not us. #1 She is motivated by money and #2 I can't prove this but know it she does not like white people. #3 I never said that I hid my grandchild I don't know where people are getting this all I said was I knew they had no reason to take the child and I stopped them. Even the policeman they sent to my house knew they were breaking the law that is why he refused to take my grandson. So they waited until I went to work knocked on my door when my daughter opened the door they chased her through the house and took him out of her arms and off they went.

I don't understand why you think it was a wise choice to take a perfectly healthy child away from a loving home by a worker with a criminal history. She can't handle her own affairs therefore has no right to come in and mess up mine. As long as my daughter and I have clean records I don't think it is right for someone who doesn't to come in to our lives and steal my grandchild just because she can.

I never said I hid the child I don't know who started that story.

Ok let me see if I can finally set you straight I know you think that we Okies are stupid but you are the one that is getting some of the facts wrong. #1 I never said I hid the child. #2 My son went to school with a bruise and the school thought that I did it which I didn't and my son told them so for 3 days. After 3 days they decided my son was telling the truth when he told them my mommy never hits me she puts me in time out. #3 During those 3 days they decided I did not make enough money to support my child even though I had been doing it for 5 years by myself. They told me I needed to apply for Food Stamps so I did. I was told I did not qualify because I made $6 a month too much. I told them fine I didn't really want them anyway. I told CPS what I was told so they could check it out they did and told me that I could not have him back until I got Food Stamps so I went back and told them what CPS told me. When I got to end of my rope I went to the Governors office and told them my story. During this time almost 2 months had gone by and my son had been in foster care with the child molestor. The Governors office called DHS and gave them 72 hours to get me Food Stamps and my son which did happen. After my son came home he was not the same problems arose so I took him to a doctor and they recommended counseling. In counseling he told the doctor what happened but as you know client records are confidential. After he killed himself I went and told his doctor that he was dead I made the comment that I guess he could never get over what happened while he was in foster care. The doctor said I didn't know you knew but your right he could never get over what that man did to him. The doctor never knew that he was telling me all this for the first time. As far as prosecuting the man and his son that did these vial things to my son since DHS won't tell me where he was and who had him that is impossible. I would love to prosecute this man hell I would love to kick his ass myself but since they won't tell me who he is that is kinda hard to do wouldn't you think? As far as the Unwed mothers home I guess you don't know as much as you think it does exist and it is at 6821 Eddie Drive in MidWest City it is run by Catholic Charities. I took her there because I knew she would be safe and the baby's daddy would not know where to find her. That way I could go to work pay my taxes like a good american and not have to worry about coming home and finding my daughter dead. Now the reason there was a delay of time between the test at DHS and the other one is #1 it took 20 minutes to drive to the other place then we had to check in then we had to set in the lobby while all the other people that were there before us got their test. So it sounds to me it is not me that needs to do research it is you. I don't know about you but I can't just walk into a place and say take care of me now and let these other people wait I am more important. I guess that only works in your world you must be special. Seems to me that you are just looking for a way to cover for DHS when it is clear what they did and are doing like a pie in the face. So just wipe it off and keep deluding yourself that everything is wonderful. Now I only have 2 more things to say to you #1 I don't appreciate you calling me a lier when I can prove everything I say and #2 if there is something else that you don't understand or want documentation on just let me know I have it all including a copy of the arrest warrant for the case worker that took my son but nobody seems to care that she has a record while my daughter and I are clean. Hmmmmmmmm

I guess you didn't watch the video once again you opened your mouth without doing the research. With what you say you do being a GAL I would think that would be a critical part of your work. How can you comment on something if you don't do the research that just proves my point also about DHS they just do what they want and don't do any research to validate their claims thank you so much for proving my point.

Ok neither test was planned as soon as we were told we could leave I called a friend that works with the courts. I asked where can I get a drug test that will be honored by the courts and DHS she told me to take her to SOS so I did. It took 20 minutes to drive there then we checked in and the rest of the time we sat in the lobby waiting for her turn to be tested. It's not like you can just walk in and say see me now and forget all these other people. I hope this clears up any confusion that ECO seems to be making about my case.

Ok my home was never found unclean I don't know where that came from either. I never said I hid the child either ECO seems to adding things to my story that I never said. She works with DHS and used to work for DHS so I can only assume that she wants to cover for them but I am more than willing to answer any and all questions I have nothing to hide. Please remember I am not the one with a criminal history that would be the caseworker. I can prove and have documentation for everything I say.

dana... you have like six posts in a row... if you're responding to other posts it might be easier for others to understand you if you either quote the post to which you're responding or address the person to whom you're responding.

-M

Ok before anymore people say that DHS does not steal children for money please watch these stories and I am only including some stories done by reputable news people that were on T.V.
YouTube - Child Protective System Part 1 - Video - WLKY Louisville
YouTube - Mass CPS corruption P2
YouTube - More CPS Corruption...
YouTube - Oklahoma DHS Corruption (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLIRFtZ1m64)
This last link is what happens to some children while in DHS protective care the key words here so called protective care.
Child Protective Services' News -2008 (http://suncanaa.com/2008)

dana... you have like six posts in a row... if you're responding to other posts it might be easier for others to understand you if you either quote the post to which you're responding or address the person to whom you're responding.

-M

Ok sorry wasn't sure how to do it that way thank you for the help.

Dana, I did watch the video. It was chilling.

I don't work for DHS (as I have posted).

Why didn't the counselor report the foster parent to the authorities?

Are the police investigating the alleged murder attempt the father made on your daughter's life?

Why do you think DHS or the courts would doctor the drug test results?

How would they get the lab to do that?

Did you say that twice the police came to the home and you kept the child from them because you knew they were breaking the law? The third time, you weren't there and they took him? Perhaps I misunderstood. Maybe you could explain, again.

Why was your son placed in foster care?

Was your daughter ever in foster care? Why?

Who paid for the unwed mother's home?

Dana, I did watch the video. It was chilling.

I don't work for DHS (as I have posted).

Why didn't the counselor report the foster parent to the authorities?

Are the police investigating the alleged murder attempt the father made on your daughter's life?

Why do you think DHS or the courts would doctor the drug test results?

How would they get the lab to do that?

Did you say that twice the police came to the home and you kept the child from them because you knew they were breaking the law? The third time, you weren't there and they took him? Perhaps I misunderstood. Maybe you could explain, again.

Why was your son placed in foster care?

Was your daughter ever in foster care? Why?

Who paid for the unwed mother's home?
My daughter was never in foster care
They doctored the test to keep the child I had to call the DA when they were trying to terminate 30 days after pickup which everybody has told me that is just way too fast. They say they have never heard of DHS trying to terminate that fast but yet they were trying to do it to us. To answer about the pickup yes that is close to what I said. The first time the workers tried to take him from the Holy Family Home with no police and no warrant or court order that is illegal.
The 2nd time was at my house the police officer told the worker I can't take him there is no valid reason. The worker got mad and started screaming at him over the phone. He moved his phone away from his ear and I heard the worker say"I sent you out there to pick up that baby now I want they baby picked up. Police Officer "maam I can't there is no valid reason it is illegal. Worker"If you don't pick up that baby I will find someone who will" Police Officer then told me watch your back she wants this baby for some reason and sooner or later she is going to find a crooked cop or a rookie cop that doesn't know the ropes that will do what she wants. He told me then he was making notes of all this in his "CAP notes" whatever those are.
I answered all the other questions in previous posts.

Actually, I don't think you answered any of the questions in previous posts. Why was you son in foster care? Why didn't the counselor report abuse?

Who paid for the unwed mother's home?

Now, why did your daughter to take parenting classes twice? How many children does she have? Is this the first time she has had a run in with DHS?

Did you discuss whether the police are investigating the allegation that the father tried to murder your daughter?

ECO,
You are a lawyer.
Nice round of questioning.
I will hire you if I need someone in DC area.
Keep asking the questions we all want to know.
Greta Van Susteren better watch out.

Actually, I don't think you answered any of the questions in previous posts. Why was you son in foster care? Why didn't the counselor report abuse?

Who paid for the unwed mother's home?

Now, why did your daughter to take parenting classes twice? How many children does she have? Is this the first time she has had a run in with DHS?

Did you discuss whether the police are investigating the allegation that the father tried to murder your daughter?
Ok here is the post from page two I just did a copy paste don't want to type it all, all over again.

Ok let me see if I can finally set you straight I know you think that we Okies are stupid but you are the one that is getting some of the facts wrong. #1 I never said I hid the child. #2 My son went to school with a bruise and the school thought that I did it which I didn't and my son told them so for 3 days. After 3 days they decided my son was telling the truth when he told them my mommy never hits me she puts me in time out. #3 During those 3 days they decided I did not make enough money to support my child even though I had been doing it for 5 years by myself. They told me I needed to apply for Food Stamps so I did. I was told I did not qualify because I made $6 a month too much. I told them fine I didn't really want them anyway. I told CPS what I was told so they could check it out they did and told me that I could not have him back until I got Food Stamps so I went back and told them what CPS told me. When I got to end of my rope I went to the Governors office and told them my story. During this time almost 2 months had gone by and my son had been in foster care with the child molestor. The Governors office called DHS and gave them 72 hours to get me Food Stamps and my son which did happen. After my son came home he was not the same problems arose so I took him to a doctor and they recommended counseling. In counseling he told the doctor what happened but as you know client records are confidential. After he killed himself I went and told his doctor that he was dead I made the comment that I guess he could never get over what happened while he was in foster care. The doctor said I didn't know you knew but your right he could never get over what that man did to him. The doctor never knew that he was telling me all this for the first time. As far as prosecuting the man and his son that did these vial things to my son since DHS won't tell me where he was and who had him that is impossible. I would love to prosecute this man hell I would love to kick his ass myself but since they won't tell me who he is that is kinda hard to do wouldn't you think? As far as the Unwed mothers home I guess you don't know as much as you think it does exist and it is at 6821 Eddie Drive in MidWest City it is run by Catholic Charities. I took her there because I knew she would be safe and the baby's daddy would not know where to find her. That way I could go to work pay my taxes like a good american and not have to worry about coming home and finding my daughter dead. Now the reason there was a delay of time between the test at DHS and the other one is #1 it took 20 minutes to drive to the other place then we had to check in then we had to set in the lobby while all the other people that were there before us got their test. So it sounds to me it is not me that needs to do research it is you. I don't know about you but I can't just walk into a place and say take care of me now and let these other people wait I am more important. I guess that only works in your world you must be special. Seems to me that you are just looking for a way to cover for DHS when it is clear what they did and are doing like a pie in the face. So just wipe it off and keep deluding yourself that everything is wonderful. Now I only have 2 more things to say to you #1 I don't appreciate you calling me a lier when I can prove everything I say and #2 if there is something else that you don't understand or want documentation on just let me know I have it all including a copy of the arrest warrant for the case worker that took my son but nobody seems to care that she has a record while my daughter and I are clean. Hmmmmmmmm

She took classes once in the home and once after and this is her only child and the reason she took them twice is you do what DHS tells you to do.

Ok the police said they couldn't arrest him because he was not on our property when they got here. Sounds strange to me but that is what they said I guess they think the wound was self inflicted because it wasn't that bad.

The home is non-profit runs off donations which I was doing long before she got pregnant. I am also a volunteer for Red Cross, I also donate to the Jesus House, Citizens Caring for Children, & Positive Tomorrows ( which is also called Neighborhood Services Organization) just in case you wanted to know all the other bad things I do. Some of you people are acting like I am the criminal here and ignoring the fact that the state of Oklahoma let a criminal come into my house and steal my grandchild. If there is anything else I can clear up for you just let me know.

Dana, if a counselor reported sexual abuse, you wouldn't need to know the name of the perpetrator because the police already would have that name. I am not asking why you didn't sue him, civilly. I am asking why he wasn't prosecuted criminally if this took place and the child reported it to a therapist. So did the therapist turn it in? Child abuse is NOT protected by any confidentiality. No way, no how. Are you trying to say that because of confidentiality, the police couldn't prosecute the foster parent? Are you saying DHS refused to give the police the name of the foster parent so the police couldn't investigate? Or did they try to prosecute and nothing came of it? Your story raises more questions than it answers. How old was your son when this happened? How old was he when he died? (I'm very sorry about that, btw - I'm a mom, too).

How many children has your daughter had? How old is she?

What sort of wound did she have when she was attacked by the father? Did she go to the hospital? Was there an investigation? Why do you think they might think the wound was self inflicted? If it was a minor wound, why are you claiming it was attempted murder?

Where was your daughter living when she wasn't living with you or at the home?

Do you have anyone else living in the home?

Oh, and I am an Okie - thus the screen name. I am working out of state and can't wait to get back home, permanently (where I have a home). I certainly don't think Okies are stupid - I think they are wonderful.