I agree.

I just don't think Devon will dump a lot of space that would just sit there unused, that's all. We know there is demand downtown for Class A space, this will ONLY increase as we get the NBA and more events happening downtown, and more housing (and people inside them).

Im not saying we're going to see a whole slew of skyscrapers per say, but as Larry said - this should be the beginning and he's setting the bar high (literally).

Like I said, OKC got the Sonics - I think if the city/Chamber got to marketing OKC to companies; OKC could surely and easily pick up some offices; and one or two might even consider relocating altogether.

It all works hand in hand, the airport, downtown housing, downtown office space availability, downtown happenings, this creates the urban vibe which makes people want to be downtown. And when companies see this, they want to be there too if they desire to get the knowledge class working for them.

In all honesty, I wish OKC could get a college downtown. I knwo OBU is there, but im talking about a major university or even OCCC. I don't know why there is only one location - and its in SW OKC. Usually, Community colleges/2 year univs have more than one location. Here in Seattle, Sea Comm College has at least three branches that Im aware of (no downtown branch but does have capital Hill, which is close to downtown and very urban).

We need OCCC in downtown. (sorry, now back to highrises).

I do think Midfirst might construct a tower, but it would be leasible (which is great). They're our best hope imo - as an immediate/most likely followup to Devon Tower.

Regarding getting colleges downtown, I know the Price Business School (OU) offers downtown classes. There's also OBU.

I'm not sure why a university would want to offer undergrad courses downtown though. In other places like Seattle or Austin, the cities were planned with a university close to the central business area and the areas just grew together. With the rising cost of education and the problems related to these huge tuition hikes of late, I don't see much wisdom in opening up a hugely expensive downtown campus when one 15 minutes away will do the same job for a fraction of the money.

I would assume that most of the current downtown work force already has at least a bachelor's degree in something. Offering associate's degrees downtown doesn't seem to make much sense at all. If a private school wants to take a chance and bet on downtown, hey.. it's their money. But a public institution? No thanks.

The OU Health Sciences Center is only a mile away and the far southeast edge is only about half a mile from the western edge of the CBD.

I think the best plan is to build easy transportation between the two areas (along with the Capitol and St. Anthony's/Midtown) and all the areas would continue to feed off each other.

The HSC is massive and in the process of rapid expansion. We need to keep looking for ways to tie it together with downtown. And the more the area between is developed (Flatiron, The Triangle, Deep Deuce) the more they will come together.

In all honesty, I wish OKC could get a college downtown. I knwo OBU is there, but im talking about a major university or even OCCC.

hot rod, being an OBU alum... i'm a little puzzled by the above quote. what does OCCC have on a full fledge private university? OBU and OCU rival OU and OSU. it's just smaller and private.

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.
different, but depending on what your degree is in... they are more comparable than a state college! you can't deny that one who attends a private university gets a whole lot more attention from the faculty and a degree that is just as impressive. OU or OSU could not have given me what i got from OBU.

No offense to OBU and OCU, but OU and OSU are comprehensive national universities with a greater variety of courses and majors and deeper Masters and Doctoral programs. They have comparatively huge research programs and hundreds of thousands of alumnae. OBU, St. Gregs, OCU are all great schools, but they are a different kind of school.

I'd put OCU or OBU ahead of OU or OSU in terms of the quality of their bachelor's programs.

As far as their Masters and Doctoral programs, that's also debatable. A J.D. at OCU is regarded as on-par with a J.D. from OU. OCU also offers several Masters programs which are not offered at OU (music management, for example).

We don't choose colleges based upon their extensive offerings of courses. We choose our colleges based upon the particular course of study we're interested in.

different, but depending on what your degree is in... they are more comparable than a state college! you can't deny that one who attends a private university gets a whole lot more attention from the faculty and a degree that is just as impressive. OU or OSU could not have given me what i got from OBU.

I did my undergrad work at UCO. I got basically the same faculty attention I would have received if I had attended OCU. Class sizes were great as well as opportunities for campus involvement.

I did my undergrad work at UCO. I got basically the same faculty attention I would have received if I had attended OCU. Class sizes were great as well as opportunities for campus involvement.
uco is a 4 year university. i'm simply saying that a community college is a notch below any 4 year university and private universities can be comparable in many ways to the "major" universities.

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings. However, apparently it might surprise some on here to know that just because a school is private and small that it isn't necessarily better. OU has become an excellent university in many areas and offers experiences and opportunities smaller schools rarely can. OU's extensive research experiences allows many students opportunities to work extensively on cutting edge activities in many fields. Many scholar programs there allow for small classes with world class professors. There are many opportunities both culturally and socially, as well as academically that are available that are not at most small schools. And though it is not necessarily essential for an "academic" experience, the level of other activities such as athletics makes for a well rounded development of individuals and groups.

So don't be so elitist and assume because your school was smaller it was better. The are indeed programs and activities which may be better at some smaller schools, but to deny what is going on at OU is just narrow mindedness.

Rover, many majors do not require extensive research experiences. Students will only interact with a few faculty members out of the hundreds or thousands on the university's payroll. It is that particular interaction and the quality of that interaction which matters.

Sure -- if I'm a biotechnology major or biostatistics major, OU would be the obvious choice.

If, however, I intend to major in something which is not a research degree, why settle for being in a class of 200+ when at other schools (and in UCO's case, for less money), I can be in the same class with 30 students, tops?

heh, rover, i was in no way dissing OU. just saying that it is comparable to the "major universities" when my alma mater was compared to a community college. OU couldn't give me the in depth scripture studies and ministry training i was seeking and i simply used that fact to further the argument that in some ways they are on the same footing.

Guess you just can't break some from believing in their old stereotypes. People need to wake up to what is happening TODAY and not 30 years ago. Just like OKC is moving into more elite status, so is OU. Class size, professor quality, endowed chairs and programs, elite facilities, outstanding competition, comprehensive programs and other improvements have helped OU improve its standing as a quality institution of learning. Again, not demeaning any other university, but failure to recognize quality there is just ignorance of the facts.

Some want small school feel and some want what is available at larger, more comprehensive schools. Each has its advantages. But back to topic, the attraction of a major involvement in downtown by OU or OSU would be much more influential than that of a small private school with limited financial means and fewer alumnae. Sometimes bigger IS better, and being a magnet is one of those times. Tell me who has helped Austin more, UT or St. Edwards. Both are excellent schools, but one is much more important to the Austin and Texas economy and development.

Didn't OCU's law school nearly lose accreditation recently? It's certainly not highly rated. My sister went there and found the undergrad courses to be unimaginatively taught, and the student body not all that impressive. Her overall impression is that it is overpriced and overrated, but it doesn't seem to rate very high in most surveys. Not picking on OCU, but it is not considered an elite university by any stretch.

hmmm... that's interesting. i'm a neighbor (i live behind kamp's), so i like to keep up.
i hope that OBU isn't suffering the same fate. it was highly acclaimed when i attended, but haven't kept up.

all successful major cities have significant university presence in or near their downtown. Sorry, but Oklahoma Health Science Center doesn't qualify - since it has a very restrictive acceptance and target. Also it is far enough away that there is really no connection to downtown (nor do students go downtown in a visible mass).

Im talking about a general university or even community college, where young people will take classes close to or IN downtown. OCU is close, but so far their enrollment is not large enough nor do they partake in downtown enough to make a difference. and once again, OCU's students are HARDLY visible, if at all in downtown. In fact, Im sure there's more OU (Norman) students in downtown on a regular basis than ANY university or college ACTUALLY based in OKC - which is sad.

For example of what Im talking about, look to Denver. Their Auraria Campus is a collage of community colleges and universities - to create a downtown education resource that appeals to both business workers and young people alike. Portland is an even greater example (with Portland State University - the largest university in the state of Oregon, which happens to be in downtown Portland and accessible via the Portland Streetcar).... What this sort of campus did is create an urban vibe that when you visit Denver or Portland; you think of it as a happening and successful city because of all of the young people IN DOWNTOWN.

MidTowner, I beg to differ - I would say MOST downtown workers in OKC don't have an advanced degree but would be willing to stay later after work a night or two to accomplish such.

OBU is a great start, but it is a small one at best, to me much like Devry. Im talking about an actual campus (small, but still). It could be part of Core 2 Shore and tie in with the Central Park - but I think a great move would be to have a 2nd Oklahoma City community college and locate it downtown in C2S.

Again, we need downtown and OKC to be appealing to more than JUST families (especially when the median age of OKC is actually very young by comparison - and we want these young people to stay)!

With the Edmond-Norman commuter rail line you have the opportunity to directly connect both UCO and OU to downtown OKC. While it's not the same as having a campus directly downtown it is better than what we have now. The station in downtown Edmond would be about 5 blocks from UCO while the station in Norman would actually be on the OU campus by the Duck Pond and stadium at Brooks (in addition to the station in downtown Norman). Light rail/streetcar would connect the OUHSC to downtown. If we ever end up rebuilding the streetcar line down Classen that would better connect Oklahoma City University to downtown and vice versa. With rail OKC has the unique opportunity to connect three major universities and the OUHSC together and to downtown. Connecting to OU and its 25,000+ students and UCO with its 10,000+ students could potentially be one of the best things for downtown's future growth. It's only a train ride away...

I agree completely BG and the best way for OKC to grow is to attract and retain young, creative entrepreneurs and start-up technology and bio-tech firms.

And that all begins with very good universities in the area. It's the reason I've said over and over again that OKC & OU need strong ties as it would help both. And better connections between both OCU and UCO and downtown -- both transportation and business -- would help even more.



I was just in Milwaukee and walked about an 8-mile loop from south of downtown (their historic Third Ward) all the way up to UW-Milwaukee. Their entire downtown is vibrant with tons of retail, condos (both warehouse conversions and high-rises) art museums and great little neighborhoods. Lots of young people down there yet Marquette is a mile west and UWM is about 2-3 miles north.

What's different is that the students there can move freely downtown and to what is effectively their Bricktown and Midtown areas.

I grew up in Chico, California and we had Chico St. University directly adjacent to our downtown. It was a pedistrian heavy area. When I lived in Tampa the university of Tampa is located downtown. Here in Atlanta, Georgia Tech and Georgia State are located downtown/midtown.

I think OKC would be much better if there was a university located in or adjacent to downtown. I would like to see Oklahoma City Polytechnic or something. Even it it only had a few hundred students to start out with it would make a huge impact.

how about OU/OKC campus downtown

Didn't OCU's law school nearly lose accreditation recently? It's certainly not highly rated. My sister went there and found the undergrad courses to be unimaginatively taught, and the student body not all that impressive. Her overall impression is that it is overpriced and overrated, but it doesn't seem to rate very high in most surveys. Not picking on OCU, but it is not considered an elite university by any stretch.

Actually, OU's law school almost lost accreditation a little more recently. OCU did as well, but not so recently as OU. OCU still rejects 57% of their applicants, no it's not "elite," but "eliteness" in the law school world is based upon how many and the quality of the students you reject. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the professors, the ties to government and local law firms, the quality of the facilities, etc.

Law school accreditation is a funny thing. It has more to do with the quality of the library (which no one actually uses the books in since everything you need is online), the quality of the facilities, the amenities, etc. than the credentials of the professors, the actual classroom experience, bar passage rates and job placement.

The main thing that's holding OCU back in terms of attracting more elite students is that they charge (this semester, I believe) $970/credit hour which is about $200 higher than TU and almost double what they're charging at OU.

US News & World Report always has OU in it's top tier of law schools -- this year at #68.

OCU is considered a tier 4 school.

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Search - Law - Best Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/state+OK)

We are way off topic here but US News & World Report always has OU in it's top tier of law schools -- this year at #68.

OCU is considered a tier 4 school.

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Search - Law - Best Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/state+OK)

If OU hadn't already built a big expansion to its law center in Norman I'd say they should relocate to downtown OKC, in a new tower (back on topic!). OU's medical school is in OKC after all. But it's in Norman to stay even though its location is not that great away from the heart of campus by apartments and the baseball stadium.

BTW, OCU has about 3,600 students split almost equally between undergrads and grad students.

OUHSC has about 3,800 students, with 800 undergrads and 3,000 grad students.

It would be great to have another school (or a branch of an existing one) directly in downtown but considering all the current students within a couple of miles, it would make a lot of sense to concentrate on integrating those campuses with the downtown districts.

That is something the community can do now, rather than waiting for someone to put in a new school.

I don't think you'll find any objective ranking where OU is not rated significantly above OCU and Tulsa.

Like I said, the quality of the education received has absolutely zero to do with the ranking of the school. The school's ranking is determined mostly by the LSAT score and GPA of the people the school rejects. Ranking has zero to do with the quality of professors, etc. Ranking is more of a "prestige" thing than a quality thing.

BTW, OCU has about 3,600 students split almost equally between undergrads and grad students.

OUHSC has about 3,800 students, with 800 undergrads and 3,000 grad students.

It would be great to have another school (or a branch of an existing one) directly in downtown but considering all the current students within a couple of miles, it would make a lot of sense to concentrate on integrating those campuses with the downtown districts.

That is something the community can do now, rather than waiting for someone to put in a new school.

Whatever would happen would probably have to be private. Our state's higher ed system is suffering from a major budget crunch.

Consider: If the richest school in the state (OU) has had to institute a hiring freeze, where do you think they will find the money to open up a downtown extension?

Whatever would happen would probably have to be private. Our state's higher ed system is suffering from a major budget crunch.

Consider: If the richest school in the state (OU) has had to institute a hiring freeze, where do you think they will find the money to open up a downtown extension?

Exactly, OU isn't opening up a new branch anywhere when they are trying to expand the Norman campus, OUHSC, and the one in Tulsa while the state continues to CUT their funding. OSU-OKC is fine at the campus they have off NW 10th with room to expand. OCCC could open a downtown campus, like TCC's Metro campus in downtown Tulsa, but is there a need?? I think there are higher priorities that need to be addressed first, the first of which could link the existing (and growing) universities to downtown: RAIL.

I doubt OCCC will put a branch campus in downtown OKC anytime soon, they just expanded the school with a new Health center, Science & math center, and liberal arts/theatre. Three new buildings in the past three years.

Everyone is forgetting that the Ron Norrick Library downtown hosts classes. Besides, we really don't need a university presence downtown when OCU is within 5 mins, and OCCC in 10 mins. It's not like there are NO universities around.

the quality of the education received has absolutely zero to do with the ranking of the school. The school's ranking is determined mostly by the LSAT score and GPA of the people the school rejects. Ranking has zero to do with the quality of professors, etc. Ranking is more of a "prestige" thing than a quality thing.

I'm not trying to argue that OCU doesn't have a good law school or that rankings mean everything.

But they do matter... Helps schools attract better students and professors, get lots more applicants, etc. And they matter enough that every school is consciously trying to raise their score/ranking.

And there are lots of things that are taken into consideration in addition to what you mentioned:

Law Methodology - US News and World Report (http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/26/law-methodology.html)

To further my point about the Health Center, here are some aerials and diagrams from their master plan.

Shows you how close it is to downtown (actually directly borders it) and how they hope to tie it all together with a streetcar / light rail system.

Also, here's some numbers to impress upon you how huge this complex is:

The CDB has 5.5 million square feet of space (6.6 if you add in Devon's current building and the SandRidge properties) but the HSC has 7.7 million with another 1.7 million either under construction or to be completed within the next five years.

That means even after Devon Tower is finished, the HSC will have more square footage than the CBD. It's like we have two downtowns that are far too disjointed!

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/ouhsc.jpg

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/ouhsc1.jpg

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/ouhsc2.jpg

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/ouhsc3.jpg

http://www.pc78.com/images/okctalk/ouhsc4.jpg

The main problem with a univeristy being downtown is land prices. If you want a D1 campus, that means you're creating a research university. That means you need a HUGE campus. The only reason why OU and OSU are as large as they are, is beacuse they were able to grab those big chunks of land and then grow later. If you put something downtown, it's basically NOT going to be a research university. It's going to be just like Xavier in NOLA. You get a little mid-rise and a few other buildings and that's it. It's not exactlly impressive and doesn't really help downtown. Schools like that generally control their student population so they don't cause issues downtown as well. It's just not the same type of university environment.

The Downtown College Consortium (http://testweb1.occc.edu/okccc/Downtown/) offers classes from Oklahoma City Community College, Oklahoma State University-Oklahoma City, Redlands Community College, Rose State College, and University of Central Oklahoma. I took an Art History class offered by the consortium and held at the Museum of Art and was very impressed with the quality of instruction.

The main problem with a univeristy being downtown is land prices. If you want a D1 campus, that means you're creating a research university. That means you need a HUGE campus. The only reason why OU and OSU are as large as they are, is beacuse they were able to grab those big chunks of land and then grow later. If you put something downtown, it's basically NOT going to be a research university. It's going to be just like Xavier in NOLA. You get a little mid-rise and a few other buildings and that's it. It's not exactlly impressive and doesn't really help downtown. Schools like that generally control their student population so they don't cause issues downtown as well. It's just not the same type of university environment.

I beg to differ.

Columbia University Office of Undergraduate Admissions - An Introduction to Columbia (http://www.studentaffairs.columbia.edu/admissions/university/)
Georgia State University Georgia State University Core Foundation (http://www.gsu.edu/about.html)

and those are just 2 that I know of. If you look at Europe, many of the Universities hold class in office buildings.

My husband received his Masters in Taxation from Depaul's graduate school which is located in downtown Chicago. His professors were mostly practicing Partners with the big firms and the students were like him working downtown where he worked. If these classes were held at DePaul's main campus it is highly unlikely he would have ever had the time to finish his degree.

So are we seriously comparing downtown OKC to CHICAGO AND NYC!!?!??? I think we're about 6 million people short to be starting that one folks. No crap they have to do it because otherwise where else are they going to put a school. That's not how OKC works.

Well, this an interesting topic for me, having graduated from OBU in 2004 and OCU Law in 2007.

I appreciate OBU's presence in downtown, however it is a niche graduate program focusing only in nursing and business.

I would anticipate a move downtown by OCU, more specifically the law school, before any state-funded university.

In regards to quality, I would say that my undergraduate work made me feel more prepared for law school than many of my state school peers. Additionally, which school you choose is a choice one makes based on many factors. I was accepted into the OU College of Law but opted for OCU because of the smaller class size. Tier 1 2 3 or 4 was not a part of my decision making process. I wanted the JD and to pass the Bar. Now that I have been in practice for almost a year, where I went to law school becomes less and less important to me and to those I come into contact with at the courthouse.

I received my MBA from OCU in 1997 (yes, I'm old). At that time, classes were offered off-campus on NW Expressway. I went to a function at OCU lately and saw one of my professors who said that the Meinders school is only offering classes in their beautiful new building. I think that is wise because although I am an OCU alum, I am not at all familiar with campus. The only time that I visited the campus was to pay my tuition. :ohno: You definitely miss part of the experience by taking off-campus classes exclusively.

This is probably our best chance for getting a real streetcar system going. At a minimum, once this loop is constructed, we could expand out from there but maybe it would be decided to just expand it from the getgo.

I'm guessing whoever at the health center is making these recommendations has some muscle.

I would anticipate a move downtown by OCU, more specifically the law school, before any state-funded university.

That won't be happening. I understand plans have been in the works for awhile to build a new law library and expand the existing law school. I think the plan is to give Gold Star back to the University.

Especially since so many are opting for the JD/MBA route these days, I don't think the law school is likely to move off campus.

This is probably our best chance for getting a real streetcar system going. At a minimum, once this loop is constructed, we could expand out from there but maybe it would be decided to just expand it from the getgo.

Agreed!

At least this way you have lots of private business behind the idea.

Seems like it would be easy to run it up the Lincoln median to the Capitol complex and then onwards to the Adventure District. Would be nice to tie in OCU at some point, too.

If we could make that happen -- especially with the tie in to the emerging Midtown / Deep Deuce / Flatiron / CBD residential districts, I think the whole area would explode with infill developments.

BG, I agree RAIL is and should be the #1 priority for the city - but having a school in downtown 'helps' build momentum for the downtown streetcar, that along with the new rooftops and corporate jobs in the CBD and surroundings.

I think we could do both, or at least develop a master plan for downtown which has a large public or private school campus in downtown (ala Portland State University) or a consortium of schools with a single large campus (ala Denver's Auraria campus).

I also think we should do what we can to get OCU and OU students INTO downtown OKC! Like I said, there's more Norman students in downtown than EITHER OKC schools - which is sad. Why is OCU so lame when it comes to partying/showing school colours in the city/downtown?

Like it or not - KIDS (young adults) in downtown is indicative of VIBRANCY! And that is something we need in downtown OKC way more than just concentrating on families.

Okay, thinking about this a little bit more. I would be in favor of a downtown college. It stinks commuting from South OKC to Edmond for school. It would be nice to have a downtown college campus to cut down commute times for people. But also, it would be a nice addition to the growing downtown/bricktown community.

Then again, we already have the Downtown consortium, OBU Master's program, and OUHSC so a college or university would have to carve another niche into the market.

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.



Okay so maybe we need a bricktown Barnes and Noble/outdoor mall near a campus. I'd be all for something facing the canal that looks classy.

I wish OCU would focus on what the University of Tulsa has been doing. I mean Tulsa is THE top ranked school in the state! This shocked me and when I saw this but it is true. OCU and Tulsa re really similar in terms of demographics but in terms of perception and rankings, it is no contest.

I also noticed OU sinking like a rock in the latest law school rankings. I believe the dropped from the high 20's to the high 60's. That is a huge drop considering there are only around 150 ABA law schools nationwide. OCU and Tulsa need to figure something out because we need them to get better.

OCU will be building a new law library and adding onto the law school in the next few years. That should help some.

Tulsa is going the other direction to help improve their rankings. They're just going to stop admitting so many students.

OU? Meh.. they'll just continue to charge half what the other two schools get and attract high LSAT scores who don't want to go deeply into debt to get their law degrees.

Okay, thinking about this a little bit more. I would be in favor of a downtown college. It stinks commuting from South OKC to Edmond for school. It would be nice to have a downtown college campus to cut down commute times for people. But also, it would be a nice addition to the growing downtown/bricktown community.

Then again, we already have the Downtown consortium, OBU Master's program, and OUHSC so a college or university would have to carve another niche into the market.

ssand, those are all top degree programs; nothing for the common person/child/young person. This is what we want to attract to downtown - to develop that critical mass of creative knowledge class; you do it with a school (or consortium of schools with a campus) downtown - but it needs to be 2-year and/or undergraduate level.

I know there are Masters level programs already in downtown, see what vibe it has created? (I know, it's better than nothing, but still --- my point is using the downtown University or Consortium to create an urban vibe of YOUNG PEOPLE!!!).

Again, Portland State University - here's a link Portland State | Experience Portland State (http://www.pdx.edu/video_tour.html) (bonus: Portland Streetcar in the film) and a map Portland State | Campus Map (http://www.pdx.edu/map.html)

Denver Auraria Campus - here's a link Auraria Higher Education Center (http://www.ahec.edu/index2.htm) and a great map Untitled Document (http://www.ahec.edu/campusmaps/maps.htm) (look how close it is to the downtown skyscrapers!

Either of these (or a combination) is what Im talking about. A school (or collage of them) for young people in downtown Oklahoma City! We have the graduate degrees covered already, we need to address higher education IN DOWNTOWN for young people/the knowledge class!

Besides, this will help LIFT the city's education ranks - giving people yet another option AND CAN IT GET MORE CENTRAL THAN DOWNTOWN???

I say it needs to be part of C2S and the new Central Park (I'd be willing to sacrafice Union Station for this in fact). ....

I think some of you are missing the point of a downtown campus. Yes it is nice that people working downtown can get a degree after work hours but the real goal of a downtown campus is to put people on the street. Even if a small school with only 500 students had a campus downtown and the students lived on campus it would go a long ways towards building up downtown.

What good does it do for downtown if Johnny Suburb leaves downtown at 6:30PM instead of 5PM? We need students living downtown that study in a Midtown Barnes and Nobel at 11PM.

Kerry, again - we expats read each other's heads!!! I couldn't have said it better!

hmmm... that's interesting. i'm a neighbor (i live behind kamp's), so i like to keep up.
i hope that OBU isn't suffering the same fate. it was highly acclaimed when i attended, but haven't kept up.

OBU is still ranked very high. They also had their largest freshman class ever this fall.

OBU Named Best in the West by Princeton Review (http://www.okbu.edu/news/2008-08-15/obu-named-best-in-the-west-by-princeton-review)

OBU Named Top Oklahoma College for 15th Year. (http://www.okbu.edu/news/2008-08-22/obu-named-top-oklahoma-best-college-for-15th-year)


Regarding their downtown campus, I expect it to expand in the coming years. They currently offer graduate degrees in Nursing and Business. OBU is likely bringing in William Underwood, the current president of Mercer University and former Baylor Interim President, as their new president with the idea of making OBU more in line with the size and scope of those Baptist universities.

i think the reason most ocu students don't go downtown to "party" is because so many are out-of-towners, many gay students (who would rather go to 39th street) and many of the students just aren't the clubbing type. HELLO Hot Rod the main reason we aren't as visible is because we are so much smaller. also ocu doenst allow students to live of campus until 21 anyway

Pete, lest we not forget - Downtown's 5.5M sq feet is LEASIBLE!!!!!! There is more if you include owner occupieds (which DEVON tower wont be included in the 5.5M total, so either stop including it in the leasible 5.5M number OR include ALL of downtown, which would be about 8M today).

Ed, I wasn't trying to diss OBU in my comment above. I am glad OBU has their MBA and grad programs downtown.

What I meant to say, when i said a major university - I meant, a major undergrad campus. I have given PLENTY of examples and even links earlier. If you guys care to click either link, you would see what Im talking about.

We need YOUNG PEOPLE IN DOWNTOWN, NOT JUST OLD FOGIES who will head for home in Edmond after working hours. Having a UNDERGRAD campus (either university or a collage of 'em) in downtown - will add to downtown's urban vibe and make it so that young people will want to stay in OKC.

It works for Portland, it works for Denver, why not work for OKC?

Denver did NOT plan for a downtown campus in their civic master plan, it was newly constructed in the 1980s and (the biggest construction) 1990's, I lived in Den during the mid 1990's, just when Araria campus was getting big!

Guys, Im not just talking classes or programs, I know downtown already has that. NOOOOO!

For the umteenth time - IM talking about having a MAJOR CAMPUS (you know, buildings surrounding a lawn; where classes are taught and students contribute to the vibe of downtown). those said students will LIVE in downtown, most likely work in or near downtown, and play in downtown.

Having that mindset as a young person bodes well for OKC, since they will carry the torch and pass it on to other young people (as in, tell everyone they know that OKC is cool/hip; and when they invite their friends from Chicago, NY, LA, ...; those kids will decide for themselves when they would see the downtown campus/vibe).

OCU is OK - I personally would like them to create a better campus vibe/community, but to have a downtown campus - even for OCCC - it would bbe centrally located for the metro area and would be ACCESSIBLE since we need to raise our OKC/Oklahoma education scores!!!!!

See what Im getting at? We kill all birds with one stone - build a downtown campus (for OCCC or a collection of schools; have undergrad and pre-collegiate courses there; the students create a young HIP vibe for downtown; the campus is accessible to the OKC metro and to students who otherwise might not have the goods to get into OCU/OU/OBU main campus or grad programs.

By the way, Seattle doesn't have a school downtown (Portland does, and Portland has a better downtown hip vibe than Seattle) and I can confirm for you that MOST downtown workers in Seattle dont have grad degrees (and many dont have any degree at all!). I assumed the same for OKC, but I could be wrong.

hi okcustu.

sounds like OCU needs to either change their policy OR make the campus more befitting for an urban vibe. OCU's campus is OK, a good start - but, it is lacking.

Maybe over time OCU students will take over downtown, I mean - it is YOUR city and downtown (moreso than OU/Norman, which is a suburb, you guys are 1 mile away!). You guys are OKC citians and so you should 'represent' in your big city downtown with your school letters - regardless of not originally from OKC.

Anyways, I do see what you're saying about many OCU students being foreigners. I think you guys need clubs which do things in the urban environment of downtown OKC! Perhaps with the Thunder now in town, that will help you all get SOCIAL CLUBS started, where you proudly where your OCU colours in your downtown OKC!!!!

Like Mayor Mick would say, PROMOTE OKC - PRONOUNCE OFTEN!!!

The school was trying last year, they had monthly free movie nights at Harkins, but because of cost they've moved it to (gasp) Tinseltown. I'm doing my best to tell some of the idiots here that 23rd street is not that bad and the school is not in the ghetto. But i'm having to deal with a sheltered suburban mallrats like a girl who trying to convince people plano is bigger/better than okc

I am a graduate student at OU-HSC and it would be nice to have traffic between this campus and the downtown area.

However, the problem is that since there are hospitals here and its an open campus, students don't feel as safe walking alone in the dark at times. However, this campus is building a new cancer research center that will come up around 2012/13. If more research money is available from the federal government (from the National Institute of Health or National Science Foundation), then more labs will move to this campus. More labs = more students = more research = higher chance of drug discovery/major science discovery.

And it's pretty exciting here. There's research going here for HIV, Lyme disease, a potential vaccine/cure for Alzheimer's disease, and possible cancer therapies going on. If you want a college town feel, there needs to be more businesses next to the campus along with more coffee shops with study spots.

I know Java Dave's is nearby but its not within walking distance and medical/grad students are simply too busy to bother with. Something like a rezoning of areas near the campus to be retail/restaurants is needed. A trendy and nice campus corner that is next to the HSC campus will not only draw students but also the federal employees around that capitol that is just a few blocks up north.

I agree. I looked at going to the University of Portland and University of Colorado Denver because they were downtown. Portland State University is also in downtown Portland.

The university of Colorado has programs offered at the Denver campus and not in Boulder, such as Urban Planning and Theater, because Denver is better situated for the students to learn in that environment. Denver has benefitted from it too, they have a thriving theater district and their urban planning is a no brainer.

It would be great if OU or OSU would have a campus downtown and offer MS and BS degrees in business, music, theater, art, urban planning, engineering, architecture, etc. degrees that would really attract a good mix and be beneficial to have downtown. Students could have internships and part time jobs within walking distance to their school and homes, which would also keep them downtown. They would not have to leave (except to get groceries).

The OU campus in Norman already has excellent facilities for engineering. However, for architecture, its really shoddy. What you could do is use the downtown area for upper classmen architecture students (ie years 3-5). That would be an excellent idea.

Turn I-235 into a bouvlevard between where the construction was just completed all the was to I-40. Tear down the bridge, raise the roadbed to grade and restore the old street grid. That will go a long way to re-joining the the cut that the expressway made and integrating the OUHSC into downtown.

I do like the idea of a design program DT.

I am a graduate student at OU-HSC and it would be nice to have traffic between this campus and the downtown area.

However, the problem is that since there are hospitals here and its an open campus, students don't feel as safe walking alone in the dark at times. However, this campus is building a new cancer research center that will come up around 2012/13. If more research money is available from the federal government (from the National Institute of Health or National Science Foundation), then more labs will move to this campus. More labs = more students = more research = higher chance of drug discovery/major science discovery.

And it's pretty exciting here. There's research going here for HIV, Lyme disease, a potential vaccine/cure for Alzheimer's disease, and possible cancer therapies going on. If you want a college town feel, there needs to be more businesses next to the campus along with more coffee shops with study spots.

I know Java Dave's is nearby but its not within walking distance and medical/grad students are simply too busy to bother with. Something like a rezoning of areas near the campus to be retail/restaurants is needed. A trendy and nice campus corner that is next to the HSC campus will not only draw students but also the federal employees around that capitol that is just a few blocks up north.

Exactly why the downtown/blvd. to OUHSC light rail should be part of MAPS III. Development along the route between the two will explode even before the first train runs. The 10th Street corridor has the potential to be really cool if there is light rail running from the heart of OUHSC into Midtown and south down Broadway. You also have the potential to build up 10th as a residential corridor with lofts and condos for students, scientists, etc.

On a side note, I've always thought it would be interesting to have OU's 5th Year Urban Design architecture studio in downtown, as the year-long project always focuses on some aspect of OKC's downtown revitalization (at least if you have Hans Butzer as your prof.)

As someone that actually went to OCU, I'd say that I and everyone else there was very happy with our campus environment. We were isolated from the surrounding crap and actually felt safe. How many places can you say you feel safe walking alone at night with crack houses just a stone's throw away? It doesn't fit the neighborhood, and I'd say the student body is glad. OCU is still working on buying everything from Penn to Classen, and from 23rd to 30th. So you'll see a much more broad campus as the school grows...especially athleticlly. I was always very happy having a campus that was very tight, and NOT sprawling. That meant I could treat my car like a locker and walk back and fourth to it between classes. Unlike somehwere at OU where it's just not possible.

Now that being said. You will NEVER get them moving away from where they are. Don't get any ideas about it because it's NOT going to happen. There is a 100+ year tradition and it's not moving. And you're NOT going to get a large university to just pop out of nowhere downtown either. OKC is saturated with universities and another even D2 size school just wouldn't work. There's no need, so why would anyone choose to build it?

As someone that actually went to OCU, I'd say that I and everyone else there was very happy with our campus environment. We were isolated from the surrounding crap and actually felt safe. How many places can you say you feel safe walking alone at night with crack houses just a stone's throw away? It doesn't fit the neighborhood, and I'd say the student body is glad. OCU is still working on buying everything from Penn to Classen, and from 23rd to 30th. So you'll see a much more broad campus as the school grows...especially athleticlly. I was always very happy having a campus that was very tight, and NOT sprawling. That meant I could treat my car like a locker and walk back and fourth to it between classes. Unlike somehwere at OU where it's just not possible.

Now that being said. You will NEVER get them moving away from where they are. Don't get any ideas about it because it's NOT going to happen. There is a 100+ year tradition and it's not moving. And you're NOT going to get a large university to just pop out of nowhere downtown either. OKC is saturated with universities and another even D2 size school just wouldn't work. There's no need, so why would anyone choose to build it?

Absolutely. I currently attend the law school up there, and while we are completely removed from the undergrads, i.e., I have never even spoken with an undergrad in all of my time at OCU, I would tend to agree with you. No way in hell would I want to move the law school downtown.

I'm there for an education, not an 'urban experience,' and certainly not to bring life to the downtown area.

As for another school moving downtown, it's not going to happen unless such a move would actually make the school money. OCU won't do it -- they just built a NIIIIICEEE new business building. The law school won't do it because no one wants to deal with downtown and law school all at once, not to mention the fact that the space requirements for a law school in a sq. ft./student aspect, once you count faculty offices, a law library, etc., would be cost prohibitive for downtown.

OCU is expanding its current campus, look for it to be building a LOT in the next 20 years, maybe even trying to go D-1 in multiple sports (including, quite possibly, football).

With the state slashing budgets for public higher education and double-digit tuition hikes just to pay the bills, don't expect a public university to open anything down there any larger than the current downtown consortium of schools currently offering classes in the Santa Fe Parking Garage area. Oklahoma doesn't value higher education. We'd rather give tax cuts than invest in higher ed, primary/secondary ed, roads and bridges, DHS or anything, really.