To Kerry...
You're right... "expecting too much" was the wrong way to say it... We should expect the best. You provide a great argument as to why we seem constantly left behind around here... hopefully with more diversifying in our economy that will change.

I'm surprised noone has ever proposed converting the Chase Tower into an enormous parking garage... that would be like a Redneck dream (maybe include an R.V. Park on top!!).

It seems to me it's not the rednecks wanting parking it's the spoiled Edmondites from Steeplechase, Coffee Creek, Oak Tree etc. that want to be able to park right at the front door of whatever establishment they're going to. Unless you consider them rednecks, and if you do, I'd like to see what you think wealthy is.

It seems to me it's not the rednecks wanting parking it's the spoiled Edmondites from Steeplechase, Coffee Creek, Oak Tree etc. that want to be able to park right at the front door of whatever establishment they're going to. Unless you consider them rednecks, and if you do, I'd like to see what you think wealthy is.

I'm not familiar with Steeplechase, Coffee Creek, or Oak tree... (spent the last 10 years in Brooklyn)... But if you want my honest opinion (and I know this steps on a lot of toes) I do consider much of Edmond pretty redneck. Having money and a big house means nothing. Edmond has its qualities, but it hasn't escaped the horrors of rednecks with money. That being said... I DO NOT hate rednecks... I actually find them very fun (often) and I appreciate their sometimes brutal honesty... We just have to try and make sure the Redneck influence stays where it belongs and an urban influence develops OKC.

I agree completely with Downtowner. Money (or a lack of it) does not automatically qualify someone as either sophisticated or "rednecky." You can drive a Jaguar and live in a million dollar house but still think narrowly. You can be a struggling artist or non-profit staff member and see the world in a sophisticated way. Of course the opposite is true as well.

Well this has quickly gotten off topic.

Somehow a thread about a proposed development in Bricktown now has turned into sweeping stereotypes of a city & people.

downtown20 - Its good to know you don't hate rednecks and you find them fun to play around with. Kind of like a pet? Just so long as they know their place, right? LOL


Of course it wouldn't be a bricktown thread without Randy Hogan, Bass Pro and the Gaylords.

Sorry. Just hope it gets back on topic

I agree completely with Downtowner. Money (or a lack of it) does not automatically qualify someone as either sophisticated or "rednecky." You can drive a Jaguar and live in a million dollar house but still think narrowly. You can be a struggling artist or non-profit staff member and see the world in a sophisticated way. Of course the opposite is true as well.

Sounds like you're even more narrow minded than the rednecks that you portray to be so narrow minded. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, as often tends to be the case.

Plus the people that live in Oak Tree for example do tend to be the sophisticated type. I seriously doubt that you'd catch someone who lives in there at a NASCAR race, rodeo or monster truck rally. But, I guess I stand corrected. Let me qualify my statement, those people are sophisticated by Okie standards and hey, what do us dumb ole Okies know anyway. I think someone like Toby Keith would more fit into the redneck-with-money mold that you're talking about instead of your typical Oak Tree residents.

And Downtown, I'm surprised your on an OKC site and seem to be familiar with the metro but have not at least heard of Oak Tree. They've even held a few PGA events there. Even if you're not an avid golf fan (myself included) I'd think that if you're even vaguely familiar with the OKC metro you would've heard of some of these places. I lived in Connecticut about 15 years ago and still remember enough about it to have a conversition about the area with someone from Ct.

It seems to me it's not the rednecks wanting parking it's the spoiled Edmondites from Steeplechase, Coffee Creek, Oak Tree etc. that want to be able to park right at the front door of whatever establishment they're going to.


sheesh, I've never seen more silly stereotypes and ridiculous assumptions.

You want to compare obesity rates to the 'spoiled' Edmondnites to the 'rednecks' that supposedly walk everywhere?

I've only been here 6 years but I can guarantee you there are far less obese people in Edmond than I've seen elsewhere. So, they must not have the serious aversion to walking that you are assuming they do.

And how about you replace 'spoiled' with hard working people who are educated, paid their dues and their bills and worked hard to have the lifestyle they have?

It's getting so tiresome for people to continually put down our city because their residents have a somewhat decent life.

And saying we should keep 'rednecks' out of Downtown or Bricktown is utterly ridiculous. Who are you to determine who is and isn't a redneck ( which btw is a derogatory term) ? It's insulting to make broad sweeping determinations of people without giving them the benefit of the doubt and very narrow minded.

Now can we get back to topic please.

I think you can blame Traxx for this one.

I'm only making one more comment because I am leaving for the weekend and this really isn't the subject of this thread (and I'm sorry for perpetuating it). I grew up in Edmond, and my family used to belong to Oak Tree when I was little. I am not saying that Oak Tree is full of, partial to, or has even one "redneck." On the contrary, Oak Tree and Edmond in general is a very nice community full of people who work hard. My agreement with Downtowner was on the more vague point - that money or lack of it does not define someone as automatically sophisticated or unsophisticated. I would hope that Downtown living draws more of the former because it will make for a more interesting urban landscape.

Soonerguru - One point of objection. I think most of us knew that the Gaylords were part owners of Bass Pro, or at least I knew it and assumed other knew also. We also knew there was not a requirement about Bass Pro shops in the state. The lease says something like a 90 mile radius.

Kerry, I don't see that as an objection. Of course people on this board knew that -- but the general public did not. The point wasn't that it was untoward of them to be partial owners -- or even beneficiaries of public financing (as controversial as it is for tax dollars to subsidize private business). The problem is the basic tenets and ethics of journalism decry the newspaper reporting on a story in which the newspaper's ownership has a financial interest without disclosing that interest to readers.

Even Steve would acknowledge this is an egregious affront to journalistic ethics.

It's the same principle of a judge excusing him or herself from a case in which there may be a bias. It's called ethics.

The problem is that the Oklahoman didn't disclose to readers that it had a financial interest in Bass Pro when it was writing about Bass Pro -- and editorializing in favor of the financing, of course.

Now, that happened when Edward L. Gaylord was still alive, so maybe they wouldn't pull that today, but I doubt things have changed that much.

Regarding the 90 mile radius deal, I just must have missed that. My apologies. That being said, that proves even more how abundantly stupid that good old boy deal was.

Imagine that the city put 17 million bucks toward a downtown retail development to lure upscale retail. Where would that district be today?

Imagine that the city put 17 million bucks toward a downtown retail development to lure upscale retail. Where would that district be today.

The city did. We call it Bass Pro Shop.

The key word there is "upscale".

The city did. We call it Bass Pro Shop.

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. That doesn't fit the mold for "upscale retail development" in my world. Of course, in OKC, that may pass.....

It was partialy sarcastic. While it isn't in the same calss as Sacks Fifth Ave, it is the top of line in hunting and fishing retailers.

Technically "upscale" just means over priced, and Bass Pro is way overpriced.

I went one time when it first opened and they wanted almost $100 for polypro underwear.. I drove my happy back to Academy and paid $10 for the same thing.

How is Academy doing? I remember the head of that place saying he would go out of business if the City funded the Bass Pro building. Anyone know what he is doing now and what is the Academy building being used for now?

By Academy, I assume we are talking about Academy Sports and Outdoors :)

They seem to be doing fine. They beat everyone, even wallmart, in prices for the things that they carry. There are usually a lot of people inside. If you haven't been there in awhile you should check it out. I'm heading out there later to get some new shoes.

How is Academy doing? I remember the head of that place saying he would go out of business if the City funded the Bass Pro building. Anyone know what he is doing now and what is the Academy building being used for now?

Kerry, Academy Sports & Outdoors is not a local store. It's a chain with over 100 stores across the country. Most are in the SE part of the country. Are they not in Jacksonville? I think there are 3 locations here in OKC. In fact, they are one of the top 300 largest privately-owned companies in the country - 1.7 billion dollars in revenue. Academy is based in Houston (Katy actually).

The story behind their fighting Bass Pro was funding consultants to build grassroots organizations to lobby against the government handouts to Bass Pro.

I remember the head of that place saying he would go out of business if the City funded the Bass Pro building.

There was serious hyperbole on both sides of the argument...

not suprised about Cotton not doing the project he announced. From my observation he is all talk no action.After all he owned the Mercantile several years and did absolutely nothing to make it better.

cotton likes to grandstand.

wouldn't this be more appropriate in the Bricktown forum?

Yeah I have my doubts to about Cotton. I'll believe it when I see it. I sure hope he doesn't water it down too much.