View Full Version : Classen Curve



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bluedogok
03-30-2010, 09:47 PM
But thats the thing, this is a strip center. Just because its designed by a hip architect and built with fancy finishes doesnt change the fact that its still a strip center. It has no depth and no parking. You guys must not get the realities of real estate development. You cant hope that customers will want to park far away from their destination and stroll along the store fronts on their way. If you dont offer relatively close and convenient parking, you will lose customers. Plain and simple. I have a worse feeling about parking once all 4 restaurants are open.
They should have waited and tried to acquire another row of houses for more parking and depth. Something more of a square or plaza would have been better, think Spring Creek Plaza in Edmond. That would have helped with getting desired national tenants. I think they will end up with more mom and pop tenants, that in the end, will struggle to survive.
There are multiple parking garages at The Domain and the main level fills up everyday around noon and pretty much stays that way until I leave for the day. The Hill Country Galleria is the same way. That is pretty much how all the "lifestyles" centers in the past few years have been built, it forces people to get out and walk on the "street". If you want a wide open mass of asphalt Belle Isle Station is right around the corner.

Classen Curve was built in the mold of what retail development is currently doing, not what it was doing. Some people won't like it but if they get the right tenant mix in there those few people won't matter, but then they are the same type of people who gripe about having to pay for parking in Bricktown or gripe about "no parking" because they can't pull up at the front door and park. They probably love Bass Pro though....

jbrown84
03-31-2010, 12:44 AM
Don't get me wrong. I would love to see parking added as part of a larger structure to the south with retail and residential concealing the parking garage (a la Mockingbird Station).

betts
03-31-2010, 09:05 AM
If there are stores to stroll past, people will be fine with it. There's some strolling in the Nichols Hills Plaza although not extensive and I like doing it when I'm in the area. If Classen Curve is primarily restaurants, then people will complain. I drove through last night and noticed there were a lot of cars and people had to park a fair distance away to go (I presume) to Republic. If I were Aubrey, I would think about acquiring more land in the neighborhood behind, although I don't know how the residents would feel about it. It was his plans for parking north of the Nichols Hills Plaza that got the largest number of people upset, when he was proposing improving it, IIRC.

OKCTalker
03-31-2010, 09:34 AM
When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).

OKCMallen
03-31-2010, 09:51 AM
When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall.

Shhhhhhhhhh, don't tell Utica Square! They haven't gotten the message and they're doing REALLY well!

brownb01
03-31-2010, 10:56 AM
When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).

maybe you should visit Utica Square.

metro
03-31-2010, 11:03 AM
OKCTalker thats the old way of thinking, you must be a suburban OKC builder that hasn't been following national trends.

bluedogok
03-31-2010, 07:41 PM
When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall. Unless it's one of the few days we have in Oklahoma where it's 72 degrees and calm. The only strolling that I've seen at local strip centers is in their architectural renderings (where, amazingly, it appears to be 72 degrees and calm).


OKCTalker thats the old way of thinking, you must be a suburban OKC builder that hasn't been following national trends.
Evidently it works because that is all that is being built now coast to coast (as metro stated) and I can guarantee you that it gets hotter down here in Austin than in OKC, it has consistently been that way for the past 6 summers that I have lived here moving from OKC. Just last year we had 69 or so days of 100+ temps and the "cool days" were in the high 90's, we had the highest average temperature on record last year, meaning even lows weren't very low, it would be 88 at 7 in the morning. They have also been building these in places like Minnesota where the winters are much more brutal. The cycle for enclosed malls is done for quite some time but if you enjoy them there should always be a few around in most any city but it will be only the strong that survive.

Why is a big-box mall any different than a strip center? They have more asphalt to create an even greater heat island effect and I see those pretty full in OKC on a hot summer weekend day and in most cases you aren't going to park much closer to the stores than in a lifestyle center.

tehvipir
03-31-2010, 09:18 PM
the residents south of the classen curve filled a request or whatever you call it to have no parking signs added in their neighborhood along the curve so that the shoppers cant park and crowd their neighbor hood. also the councilmand said they have done a great job getting that neighborhood to a nice looking place. i doubt they would do much as far as selling it for more parking.

jbrown84
03-31-2010, 09:37 PM
It wouldn't be for more parking. It would be for a larger structure that included retail and parking garage and hopefully residential.

Spartan
04-02-2010, 12:35 AM
If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking. It obviously meets code minimums for parking places - even including the many restaurants - but this shows the dangers of achieving only the minimum. I envision that the leases do (or will) require tenant employees to park off-site, and that will have to be enforced.

Maybe (gasp) people will have to park in the mixed-use neighborhood planned across Grand. Maybe they'll do structured parking if it is such a problem. But I have a feeling AMC isn't about to let his project fail because of not enough parking, just like he won't compromise the design to too much parking.

bluedogok
04-03-2010, 12:26 PM
I do think parking regs for restaurants are woefully inadequate, any restaurant in an open air mall or strip center tends to dominate the spaces and makes it more difficult for the retailers. I think outside of business districts like downtown or historical areas with a combination of street/garage parking the ratio needs to be higher. I know that in the site planning that we have done many of the lenders require a higher ration than codes do which helps some. I know garage parking is used a lot down here, it is typically not driven by land costs but by impervious cover restrictions. I see a future garage out in that area, maybe by the "planned" WF.

OKCHerbivore
04-05-2010, 09:35 AM
I am a resident of Meadowbrook Acres (the hood just behind Classen Curve), and perhaps the lessons many of us here have been trying to work into each new development in OKC about walkability can serve as a firm reminder to the folks talking about the parking issues for Classen Curve.

Obviously, having a better blend of dense housing near such goods and services adds a built in crowd of "regulars" to the right kind of shops. So far, Classen Curve is a mixed bag, the more "upscale" and specialized the shops from workaday needs of nearby residents, the more it is going to be a "drive-in" type of area. That is to say, I am a vegetarian, thrilled to have an actual vegetarian restaurant 5 min's walk from my door, except that 105 Degrees is fantastically expensive as a frequent place to eat (except for their smoothies), so there for it remains a special occasion place. Though, it is delicious and very well-made food.

So a better blend of common shops and services with the higher-end shops that can make the place special is one needed goal.

The next is a reminder of AMC's goal of making the Chesapeake area a "second downtown" as he said in a Gazette interview awhile back. While initially, I snickered at this, when my wife and I moved intro a rental house in the area (from Jefferson Park/Paseo), I grew a vested interest in seeing this area become denser. And it can happen in an interesting way, especially since the streets just West of the CHK campus are all triangle-forming, interactive streets.

Yet glaring basic infrastructure needs exist here: sidewalks, streetwall, dense housing, some basic neighborhood identity and cohesion.

If the city and CHK can work in collusion on these basic (and not so basic, i.e. housing) pieces, the area can actually become a larger neighborhood, holding out a last vestige of mixed-use property before Nichols Hills occurs just north of here.

As for the parking issue on Classen Curve, for sure RePUBlic has shown that it can vastly own the lots, versus the other shops, and as it fills, I sincerely hope the Curve will be so full of quality shops it will need the parking.

Yet there might be a need for more parking, and perhaps a bit more interesting solution than "just build a garage there" (especially if that garage is meant to be in my neighborhood or near my dog supply store Central Park), is to perhaps build in a local form of shuttle or even (gasp!) trolley that can lead from a main parking garage on the outskirts of the area, not wasting valuable land in the midst of the neighborhood/area. Or even a garage that has a bit of a walk built in, as this will incentivize local housing/and the slight work that walkable neighborhoods inevitably have. OKCers might have to learn to walk a bit.

Yet the main lesson remains: nothing replaces proximity, and nothing solves parking problems like pedestrians. My wife and I are glad to have a place like Classen Curve (and Lord willing, Whole Foods) near enough to walk, and not contribute to the problem parking that is already happening.

The mindset we must change in OKC is that we need better neighborhoods to walk, not more garages.

jbrown84
04-05-2010, 09:56 AM
Hopefully any garage would be underneath/behind more retail and/or housing.

BDP
04-05-2010, 10:25 AM
When people want to stroll/walk/windowshop at an Oklahoma retail location, they do it in a climate-controlled regional mall.

Not me. I hate those places. Unfortunately, when my family wants to stroll/walk/windowshop, we get on a plane first.

Dustin
04-19-2010, 03:08 PM
Just drove through CC for thefirst time. It's very nice! I had no idea it was that large. Although it's a huge place, none of the buildings are big enough to support a WF even if they were to locate here..

metro
04-19-2010, 04:38 PM
WF isn't rumored to go in there, but across the street on Grand where they recently tore down a funeral home and office building. That's why most are saying WF in Classen Curve "area".

Dustin
04-19-2010, 06:10 PM
WF isn't rumored to go in there, but across the street on Grand where they recently tore down a funeral home and office building. That's why most are saying WF in Classen Curve "area".

oohhhhhhh gotcha

fromdust
04-19-2010, 08:17 PM
i finally got to go check out the republic.....and red coyote. i actually think the curve is kinda ugly.

jdcf
04-21-2010, 09:11 AM
Although a street separates the two sections of the development, there does not seem to be good pedestrian access from the Balliet's section into the large, main section to the north.

One would have to walk along Grand or go to a stair step that is located at the far western end of the development that goes from the residential area into the develoopment.

To go between sections by car, one would have to go out on Grand.

Seems like there should be better access between the two sections, particularly for pedestrians.

Have I missed something?

Thanks.

metro
05-05-2010, 08:38 AM
I thought I'd do a summary of tenants to date:

Classen Curve tenants thus far announced:

Balliets
Cafe 501
Upper Crust Wood Fired Pizza
Red Coyote Running & Fitness
Winter House Interiors
Metro Shoes
Uptown Kids
RePUBlic Gastropub
105 Degrees Restaurant & Academy

Spartan
05-05-2010, 03:06 PM
Thanks for the list metro.

metro
05-05-2010, 03:12 PM
Welcome, and hopefully we'll add Whole Foods to that list (although not technically in CC) after today's confirmation, BUT if I'm wrong and the new rumor is right it will be downtown which is even better, now all we need is an H&M, Armani Exchange, IKEA and Urban Outfitters and I have no need to shop in Dallas anymore.

jbrown84
05-05-2010, 06:04 PM
I saw the sign for Uptown Kids the other night, but what is it?

skyrick
05-05-2010, 07:19 PM
I just started looking at this thread, not about to read the whole thing though. After Googling it and looking at a few of the websites featuring it, I have to say I'm not impressed with it architecturally. It reminds me of the DART light rail stations in Dallas. Steel and glass is so '70s, or even '20s if you consider Bauhaus (which I don't). Sounds like you'll have some decent restaurants and shops though, so that's cool.

Rover
05-05-2010, 07:50 PM
The Curve is not going to satisfy the "old world" let's make everything look like Tuscany crowd. It is refreshingly urban cool, though I must admit, still a strip center...on steroids. It invites window shopping and walking along the store fronts.

I predict that Elliot will be applauded by the architectural and style communities and may well again win awards.

With Balliets and now with Whole Foods across the street, and with the style of restaurants it is attracting, the Curve will be a fun upscale place to be. It will not be a traditionalists hangout, nor is it intended to be.

bluedogok
05-05-2010, 10:31 PM
The Curve is not going to satisfy the "old world" let's make everything look like Tuscany crowd.
I am so tired of doing that faux-Tuscan crap all over Austin/San Antonio, it seems to be the only style most developers like for anything other than downtown buildings. There is a whole other world of possibilities out there and some don't get it, at least they did with CC.

skyrick
05-05-2010, 10:52 PM
I am so tired of doing that faux-Tuscan crap all over Austin/San Antonio, it seems to be the only style most developers like for anything other than downtown buildings. There is a whole other world of possibilities out there and some don't get it, at least they did with CC.

Yeah, Arlington Highlands, just east of Parks Mall, has some great shops and restaurants, but it looks like a cheesy Tuscan-town set in the middle of a 50 acre parking lot. Still don't like Classen Curve either, it's too cold and sterile. Frank Lloyd Wright's designs from the 1910s look more modern and warm than anything today. Where are the architects with imagination and vision?

Rover
05-05-2010, 11:00 PM
The crowd that likes that faux Tuscan style will love the new lifestyle center being developed just north of Quail Springs mall. But it is a tired style in many parts of the country. They've been there, done that. At least Rand Elliott is trying to do something distinctive and more what you would see developed in San Francisco or Vancouver instead of Austin or Amarillo.

Spartan
05-05-2010, 11:42 PM
I don't think I've ever seen more Tuscan-motif construction anywhere in the world than in Midtown Tulsa. Not even Tuscany can match the faux-Tuscan buildings and homes in Tulsa lol. I don't know how I feel about it either..it was nice for the first ten million projects I guess.

skyrick
05-06-2010, 06:14 AM
I don't think I've ever seen more Tuscan-motif construction anywhere in the world than in Midtown Tulsa. Not even Tuscany can match the faux-Tuscan buildings and homes in Tulsa lol. I don't know how I feel about it either..it was nice for the first ten million projects I guess.

I blame Diane Lane.

BG918
05-06-2010, 08:40 AM
I don't think I've ever seen more Tuscan-motif construction anywhere in the world than in Midtown Tulsa. Not even Tuscany can match the faux-Tuscan buildings and homes in Tulsa lol. I don't know how I feel about it either..it was nice for the first ten million projects I guess.

I think that's a result of several prominent developers really liking that style or trying to emulate Philbrook or KC's Country Club Plaza. I've noticed Grand Lake has quite a few new 'Tuscan-style' homes too.

Spartan
05-06-2010, 12:16 PM
Ah yes, the typical "Blame Bumgarner" approach. LOL jk.

betts
05-06-2010, 12:46 PM
There seem to be themes in construction and Tuscan style should be on it's way out, based on how long its been popular. At least I hope so, as I'm pretty tired of it. Who knows what the next will be? If it's done well, it's not the end of the world. We've got all the lovely Tudor houses from the 20s and 30s when it seemed to be the rage, and they've stood the test of time. Someday people will look at Tuscan houses and say, "Those must have been built early in the century."

Spartan
05-06-2010, 12:54 PM
That's incredibly true, Betts. I actually like individual faux-Tuscan buildings, I just don't like anything en masse. What if we had one neighborhood or development where each unit or home was a different motif, Tudor, Tuscan, German, Russian, and so on.. and wouldn't that be cool if Russian arch caught on? lol

I think it's telling how Italian Renaissance architecture was actually incredibly popular in some of OKC's earliest neighborhoods, I wonder what they thought of it then. During the 1990s, right before Tuscan became so popular in Dallas, Houston, Tulsa (and other cities that aren't OKC).. when you saw an Italianette home you typically assumed it was from the 1910s or 1920s.

CuatrodeMayo
05-06-2010, 02:07 PM
Someday people will look at Tuscan houses and say, "Those must have been built early in the century."

They will be long gone by then. They are not built to last.

bluedogok
05-06-2010, 09:47 PM
Frank Lloyd Wright's designs from the 1910s look more modern and warm than anything today.
Wright had many clients much like Rand does, ones who like and trust his "vision", it takes that kind of client who is willing to take a risk on something different and is able to finance it themselves. The majority of the financiers like to build what everyone else is, in their mind it reduces the risk when it should be the opposite.


Where are the architects with imagination and vision?
They are out there, "imagination and vision" projects are very far and few between. Most of the time we aren't allowed to have any "imagination and vision", we have to crank out what the paying customer (the developer and/or the group financing it) wants....and for the most part it is more faux-Tuscan crap....


They will be long gone by then. They are not built to last.
That may be the only saving grace...as you well know no one wants to pay for anything "lasting" and when repair/maintenance costs get too much they will just tear it down.

cindycat
05-08-2010, 10:37 AM
i finally got to go check out the republic.....and red coyote. i actually think the curve is kinda ugly.

My husband and I lived in the OKC area for over 40 years before moving to NW Washington state. (We're trying to move back now.) We were in OKC last week for a visit. I had read on newsok.com about Classen Curve. My young hip cousins mentioned it at brunch, so we decided to drive by. I haven't read this whole thread, but I did see someone call it "urban cool." Maybe it's our age and "uncoolness" but we think it's more than "kinda" ugly - it's downright ugly.

Reminds me of that building at Western and Wilshire (I think) built by someone in the Kirkpatrick family 10-ish years ago. Big black thing.

Having said all that, I would love to be able to sell our house and move back. Despite our opinion of the design, the Curve does appear to be a great center.

onthestrip
05-08-2010, 06:32 PM
My husband and I lived in the OKC area for over 40 years before moving to NW Washington state. (We're trying to move back now.) We were in OKC last week for a visit. I had read on newsok.com about Classen Curve. My young hip cousins mentioned it at brunch, so we decided to drive by. I haven't read this whole thread, but I did see someone call it "urban cool." Maybe it's our age and "uncoolness" but we think it's more than "kinda" ugly - it's downright ugly.

Reminds me of that building at Western and Wilshire (I think) built by someone in the Kirkpatrick family 10-ish years ago. Big black thing.

You must not be much of a Rand Elliot fan then, considering he designed both Classen Curve and Kirkpatrick Oils building. If you look at his projects, it seems 75% of them have been for Kirkpatricks or Aubrey McClendon.

TeriOKC
05-08-2010, 09:30 PM
I love

TeriOKC
05-08-2010, 09:32 PM
Sorry....I meant to say that I love Rand Elliott's work, even thought I'm more of a traditional, vintage house type of person. I adore the Kirkpatrick building and have fallen madly in love with the look of the Classen Curve project. We live in Crown Heights, so it certainly is a plus for us. Rock on, Rand...

MikeOKC
05-08-2010, 09:48 PM
No disrespect to Mr. Elliott....I've debated telling this story, but here goes...I was with somebody from out-of-town last week and was on our way to the CHK campus and driving up Classen, completely involved in a conversation about computers. The man interrupted me and said, "Hmmm, that's an interesting look for industrial space. Very nice." I quickly told him that wasn't industrial that it was new retail shopping space, see the signs? He said, "Republic means nothing to me. Where's the place?" I went on to explain it's actually very, very nice and they have the greatest A/V setup I've ever seen anywhere. He was shocked it was retail. "It all says industrial to me, though with lines. It looked nice for that, but it's a horrible retail design." I changed the subject back to what a great place Republic is. Today, I drove by and you know? It does look kind of like chic industrial space in places along the strip there on Classen. I had never really thought about it, but is that because I know what it is? I guess I have to admit it's more than just different. I saw it as truly odd on the drive-by today.

Spartan
05-08-2010, 10:10 PM
Classen Curve is very nice for what it is, a suburban retail strip format. It's not a substitute for a legitimate town center or sustainable development.

betts
05-08-2010, 10:34 PM
What do you mean by sustainable development? I think some people may be surprised with the way that area turns out. Let's not forget that we will likely have a Whole Foods adjacent, and Aubrey owns a lot of land in that area. I think ultimately, with it and the Whole Foods block, as well as Nichols Hills Plaza, we will have a major destination shopping area for people. Nichols Hills Plaza is a legitimate town center because it IS a town center, complete with city hall and fire department. If development spreads south from it to Classen Curve, we will have a major area, similar to ones in other cities. It's not as funky, but Little Five in Atlanta comes to mind.

I have no reason on earth to be a homer for this area, as I'd much rather have something like this downtown, but I'm willing to call a spade a spade. I think he's on to something here, regardless of how it looks. Put the stores there and we will shop, industrial in appearance or not.

MikeOKC
05-08-2010, 10:43 PM
What do you mean by sustainable development? I think some people may be surprised with the way that area turns out. Let's not forget that we will likely have a Whole Foods adjacent, and Aubrey owns a lot of land in that area. I think ultimately, with it and the Whole Foods block, as well as Nichols Hills Plaza, we will have a major destination shopping area for people. Nichols Hills Plaza is a legitimate town center because it IS a town center, complete with city hall and fire department. If development spreads south from it to Classen Curve, we will have a major area, similar to ones in other cities. It's not as funky, but Little Five in Atlanta comes to mind.

I have no reason on earth to be a homer for this area, as I'd much rather have something like this downtown, but I'm willing to call a spade a spade. I think he's on to something here, regardless of how it looks. Put the stores there and we will shop, industrial in appearance or not.

I agree, betts. That's why I mentioned the other day that the wide swaths of land without announced plans for them could very well mean a large mixed-use "Town Center/Village-like" lifestyle center.

An aside, for those of us old enough to remember, the old Penn Square was really ahead of its time.

Spartan
05-08-2010, 10:50 PM
I'm with you Betts, when it comes to the future impending development that we've yet to see..and Whole Foods and Balliet's, while separate from the Classen Curve strip per se, it DOES definitely change the overall development much like the larger scale Chesapeake town center that we have reason to believe may be underway between Classen, Western, Grand, and 63rd.

The problem with this is that all we have to judge it by is Classen Curve + Whole Foods and we have yet to see what Whole Foods will look like although we have reason to believe it will be decent, to say the least! Judging Classen Curve independently.. it's not all that it is chalked up to be. The problem with Classen Curve is that the auxiliary projects are vital to its identity in order for it to have the buzz and venustas that Rand and AMC seem to think it should.

Is the massive Chesapeake mixed-use lifestyle center really on? It's difficult to say and it's driving us all crazy. It's bizarre how AMC expects us to go gaga over the project and acts as though he IS building the lifestyle center that will be the game changer OKC desperately needs, when all he has shown us yet is...Classen Curve. Hopefully there is more to this than what meets the eye..and it's bizarre in my opinion how we've now taken for granted the factors that we can't possibly know, those that do NOT meet the eye. In order for us to "fully appreciate" Classen Curve by the standard of the hype you almost HAVE to take those unbeknownst factors into careful consideration, probably the ultimate fool's proposition when talking about development.

progressiveboy
05-09-2010, 07:02 AM
My husband and I lived in the OKC area for over 40 years before moving to NW Washington state. (We're trying to move back now.) We were in OKC last week for a visit. I had read on newsok.com about Classen Curve. My young hip cousins mentioned it at brunch, so we decided to drive by. I haven't read this whole thread, but I did see someone call it "urban cool." Maybe it's our age and "uncoolness" but we think it's more than "kinda" ugly - it's downright ugly.

Reminds me of that building at Western and Wilshire (I think) built by someone in the Kirkpatrick family 10-ish years ago. Big black thing.

Having said all that, I would love to be able to sell our house and move back. Despite our opinion of the design, the Curve does appear to be a great center. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I personally feel that CC is something different and unique for OKC. I live in Dallas and this type of building would be very hip and urban there. Maybe OKC is finally evolving and is become diverse in many ways. I hope so! Wow. I am surprised you would want to leave the beautiful state of Washington. It is so green, lush and people there are forward thinking.

betts
05-09-2010, 07:59 AM
There's a price to be paid for green and lush. Actually two prices. One literal, with the cost of housing three times what it is here and a difference in income that's not 3x higher. And then there's the constant grey skies and drizzle. They get about the same amount of rain we do annually, but ours dumps from the skies in large volumes and theirs falls gently from the skies in a far greater amount of time.

We were going to move to Seattle once. We spent two weeks there doing all sorts of outdoorsy stuff....biking, rafting, hiking. I spent two days and nights in a tent on Mt. Ranier because it wouldn't stop raining. The first couple of days we were all, "This is a beautiful place, we could definitely live here." By the end, we couldn't wait to leave. And this was coming back to Oklahoma. I understand. I'm a blue sky lover.

Rover
05-09-2010, 08:04 AM
If every building designed was done with traditional European styling and meeting the approval of the masses, then we would get what we have traditionally gotten in OKC. I applaud Rand and Aubrey for stepping out and pushing forward.

Consider that the impressionists like Monet, etc. were highly criticized at their time and now highly prized. It was new and strange and most could only accept the styles that were familiar and commercial at the time. Every new style in art and architecture is met with skepticism or rejection and that which is good or great is finally accepted and treasured. CC may or may not ever be truly appreciated or accepted in OKC, but it will be criticized by those with no vision or willingness to accept anything other than what they currently know or have been told is good design.

I believe Rands peers will and have understood what he has done and he will be appreciated by them. I hope the citizens of OKC follow suit and come to understand that diversity of architecture is what will help make OKC a CITY.

betts
05-09-2010, 08:14 AM
I have no problem at all with the architecture. I think it looks clean and interesting. I do wish, however, that Aubrey could acquire another couple of blocks and open it up more. If there were another street south of the south buildings that was part of the center, it would give it a much less closed-in feel and be much more like an open air shopping center than a strip shopping center. Perhaps if the exisiting spaces were filled, it might be an option. Who knows?

onthestrip
05-09-2010, 12:55 PM
Classen Curve is very nice for what it is, a suburban retail strip format. It's not a substitute for a legitimate town center or sustainable development.

Correct me if Im wrong but spartan probably says its not sustainable because this is probably not a money making development. I imagine the cost of construction will take forever to make back in rent, especially with local tenents who probably arent paying as much rent as a national retailer would. Without somenoe with deep pockets and someone who isnt worried so much about the bottom line, this type of development wont be done again. Id like to see the pro forma on this project.

Reggie Jet
05-09-2010, 06:32 PM
I have friends who own a shop. They looked at Classen Curve and found out that the monthly rent for a 1200 sq. ft. space was $3,600. Don't know how this computes into CC being financially sustainable, but thought I'd pass it along.

ronronnie1
05-09-2010, 08:07 PM
Wow. I am surprised you would want to leave the beautiful state of Washington. It is so green, lush and people there are forward thinking.

...because it rains too much perhaps?

Spartan
05-09-2010, 08:42 PM
If every building designed was done with traditional European styling and meeting the approval of the masses, then we would get what we have traditionally gotten in OKC.

Yeah, because OKC is so European..

Onthestrip, that's actually not what I was referring to. I was actually suggesting that this is an underwhelming development when you look at the hype and separate the Classen Curve strip from auxiliary projects...though I share in everyone's hope that there IS more than we're seeing.

Larry OKC
05-09-2010, 10:28 PM
I have no problem at all with the architecture. I think it looks clean and interesting. I do wish, however, that Aubrey could acquire another couple of blocks and open it up more. If there were another street south of the south buildings that was part of the center, it would give it a much less closed-in feel and be much more like an open air shopping center than a strip shopping center. Perhaps if the exisiting spaces were filled, it might be an option. Who knows?


I agree, my main problem with it is it appears sooooooo EMPTY. Yes, I know, there is a list of places that have announced they are going there...but until you see some activity (construction workers inside), store signage or at least "Coming Soon" banners....

Spartan
05-09-2010, 11:40 PM
There actually are "coming soon" banners inside the development. Saw 'em today.

Larry OKC
05-10-2010, 01:11 AM
Great! How long are you back in OKC?

Spartan
05-10-2010, 02:55 AM
Allls summer.

metro
05-10-2010, 08:48 AM
I'm with you Betts, when it comes to the future impending development that we've yet to see..and Whole Foods and Balliet's, while separate from the Classen Curve strip per se, it DOES definitely change the overall development much like the larger scale Chesapeake town center that we have reason to believe may be underway between Classen, Western, Grand, and 63rd.

The problem with this is that all we have to judge it by is Classen Curve + Whole Foods and we have yet to see what Whole Foods will look like although we have reason to believe it will be decent, to say the least! Judging Classen Curve independently.. it's not all that it is chalked up to be. The problem with Classen Curve is that the auxiliary projects are vital to its identity in order for it to have the buzz and venustas that Rand and AMC seem to think it should.

Is the massive Chesapeake mixed-use lifestyle center really on? It's difficult to say and it's driving us all crazy. It's bizarre how AMC expects us to go gaga over the project and acts as though he IS building the lifestyle center that will be the game changer OKC desperately needs, when all he has shown us yet is...Classen Curve. Hopefully there is more to this than what meets the eye..and it's bizarre in my opinion how we've now taken for granted the factors that we can't possibly know, those that do NOT meet the eye. In order for us to "fully appreciate" Classen Curve by the standard of the hype you almost HAVE to take those unbeknownst factors into careful consideration, probably the ultimate fool's proposition when talking about development.

Where are AM's statements saying that he expects us to think all these things? Call me crazy, but I don't recall him coming out very often at all with any statements about their development.

Spartan
05-10-2010, 07:34 PM
Exactly. AMC has said it will be a gamechanger for OKC however, what currently exists that we know of, is not a gamechanger..and wasn't until the Whole Foods announcement last week. Ergo--the bizarre expectation on AMC's part for us to understand something we can not possibly know of, unless going off of RUMORS.