They should have taken a little more time and tried to buy a block or row of houses along the north side of the neighborhood that borders CC. This would have also helped with increasing the depth of the buildings, which would in turn help with attracting popular national tenants.

Yeah if they could acquire that north block that they are currently wrapped around, they could add a large middle building with some structured parking beneath it or above it. That would allow for much larger stores and would connect the two ends better for pedestrians.

Maybe they will eventually. I noticed there's a Midwest Wrecking machine at the building adjacent to the recently demolished funeral home. That will be a fair amount of land, and Aubrey owns the whole block anyway.

Whole Foods and Crescent Market are completely different animals. St. Louis, where I live, has Whole Foods and also supports at least a dozen Crescent Market-type stores.

Whole Foods is a destination grocery where people travel to get a large selection of a wide variety of hard to find items. Crescent Market is a convenient, somewhat upscale neighborhood place for those in Nichols Hills. Someone in Edmond or Quail Creek is not going to drive to Crescent Market to buy Cheerios. They may very well drive to a Whole Foods to buy organic foods, prepared foods, specialty meats, cheeses, etc.

It's two different audiences.

So you're saying that all Crescent Market sells is Cheerios?

we are not getting a whole foods. i have a good friend who is the director of marketing for WF and there is more talk of closing WF stores than opening new ones at this point. disappointing.

I'm not buying this as a reason that they're not opening here. There has been sufficient evidence that there is good odds they are building here. Even the Tulsa store manager has confirmed "we're on the list." Chesapeake has enough capital to lure a WF here if need be. I'd more more anxious to here what their real estate team has to say than the Dir. of Marketing.

I'm not buying this as a reason that they're not opening here. There has been sufficient evidence that there is good odds they are building here. Even the Tulsa store manager has confirmed "we're on the list." Chesapeake has enough capital to lure a WF here if need be. I'd more more anxious to here what their real estate team has to say than the Dir. of Marketing.

Until and unless there's a press release, we're all quoting the same second cousin's uncle's best friend who knew a guy who sat next to a stock boy from Whole Foods who think he overheard some talk in the executive wash room that...

nope, insiders that know high ups as Chesapeake is what I'm holding onto.

whole foods is considering closing stores and not opening new ones at this point (due to the economy). disappointing.

Right now, Whole Foods is in the process of opening THIRTY new locations -- all over the U.S. -- and I haven't heard of any closing:

Stores in Development | WholeFoodsMarket.com (http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/newstores.php)

Republic is only about two weeks from opening... Here are some photos from their Facebook page:

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs426.ash1/23574_360203137545_247549692545_3784548_2507943_n. jpg

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs366.snc3/23574_360203422545_247549692545_3784552_7456744_n. jpg

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs366.snc3/23574_360486562545_247549692545_3785130_5467754_n. jpg

Right now, Whole Foods is in the process of opening THIRTY new locations -- all over the U.S. -- and I haven't heard of any closing:

Stores in Development | WholeFoodsMarket.com (http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/newstores.php)
Now now, let's not let facts get in the way of a good third-person wet blanketing...

But, Whole Foods is only opening 16 of those stores this year (they opened 15 in 2009) so that list should take them all the way through 2011 with Oklahoma City still not even on the list.

Whole Foods boosts outlook - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/whole-foods-boosts-outlook-2010-02-16?reflink=MW_news_stmp)

If an Oklahoma City store was the very next one announced, it likely wouldn’t open until 2012, at the earliest.

That said, the same article also talks about how well Whole Foods is doing now and nothing at all about closing stores.

An OKC location wouldn't necessarily be behind all the others already announced.

Often the timing has more to do with the developers/development than it does with the retailer. If CHK has their act together and wants to get them in sooner, that could easily happen in about a year.

The best, 100% way to find out if Whole Foods is entering the OKC Market is to wait for the "Grand Opening Sign".

I tend to think this rumor will eventually come true. Why? Well I think Aubrey wants one so bad that he will probably throw enough money at it that Whole Foods couldnt turn it down. With that said, Im going to sit back and wait to hear an official announcement and not try to speculate when/where/how it will happen.

Also, I wouldnt put much stock into what a manager says from a Whole Foods in another city. They arent exactly in the meetings with the real estate team.

An OKC location wouldn't necessarily be behind all the others already announced.

Often the timing has more to do with the developers/development than it does with the retailer. If CHK has their act together and wants to get them in sooner, that could easily happen in about a year.
Exactly


I tend to think this rumor will eventually come true. Why? Well I think Aubrey wants one so bad that he will probably throw enough money at it that Whole Foods couldnt turn it down. With that said, Im going to sit back and wait to hear an official announcement and not try to speculate when/where/how it will happen.

Also, I wouldnt put much stock into what a manager says from a Whole Foods in another city. They arent exactly in the meetings with the real estate team.

Agreed, I think this is the biggest factor into us getting one. If CHK broke ground on a building soon, we'd see one a heck of a lot earlier than 2012.

Republic has their new website up:

REPUBLIC (http://www.republicgastropub.com/#republic)

Pretty impressive beer list:
http://www.republicgastropub.com/Republic%20Beer%20Menu.pdf

Republic has their new website up:

REPUBLIC (http://www.republicgastropub.com/#republic)

Pretty impressive beer list:
http://www.republicgastropub.com/Republic%20Beer%20Menu.pdf

Also the food sounds yummy also. Looks neat, can't wait to try it out!

Beer list looks great! Love how they proudly feature a great selection of OK brews. And they have my favorite import, Young's Double Chocolate Stout. Food looks delicious...smoked salmon sliders, yum (not paired with a YDCS though...).


Can't wait!

Ah, they have Coop Zeppelin. There aren't many places you can get it, and it's one of my favorite beers. That's exciting.

If an Oklahoma City store was the very next one announced, it likely wouldn’t open until 2012, at the earliest.

It's not like there is an actual physical line forming. I'm not in the camp that wants a Whole Foods, but the order in which they open stores will be determined more by economic factors and development opportunities than an order on some list. In fact, if they were limited by resources they would probably rather open in new and emerging markets before saturating another.

nope, insiders that know high ups as Chesapeake is what I'm holding onto.


There has been sufficient evidence that there is good odds they are building here.

Metro, you're grammar has gone to pot. :poke:

The CC website now shows Building K (at the far south end of the complex) leased to:

Winter House Home Furnishings & Interior Design (http://www.winterhouseinteriors.com/)

Not sure if this will be in addition to their Northpark Mall location or if it will be moving.

That building is about 9,000 square feet.

I bet they'll move. I don't think they have the kind of business that would justify two stores. I don't know how good an idea the move is for them, as I see their furnishings as being more "Edmond" in style than "Nichols Hills" or "Classen Curve" but perhaps they're evolving their style.

According to their Facebook page, Republic will open this coming Monday.


As I've said all along, this will be a smash hit.

Yep. I'm going to a taste testing this week and will report back. Looking forward to this place opening, as Pete said i think it's going to be a smash hit. Good work tuck!

Ah, they have Coop Zeppelin. There aren't many places you can get it, and it's one of my favorite beers. That's exciting.

U can get it at Bolero and Musashi's

Classen Curve reintroduces window-shopping to Oklahoma City
Center is intended to be upscale shopping, entertainment destination
BY STEVE LACKMEYER
Published: March 28, 2010


For months, retailer Bob Benham drove the gentle curve of Classen Boulevard toward Grand Avenue and wondered who was clearing out a handful of old houses, and what might be planned for the stretch.

It wasn’t until a November 2008 visit by Aubrey McClendon, chief executive officer of Chesapeake Energy, that the owner of the legendary Balliet’s got his first hint of what was to come — Classen Curve.

"He came in looking for something for his wife and he had a photo from a New York Times fashion magazine,” Benham said. That in turn led into a conversation about the store, Benham’s career and his future.

See the rest of Steve's article at:

NewsOK (http://newsok.com/classen-curve-reintroduces-window-shopping-to-oklahoma-city/article/3449701?custom_click=lead_story_title)

classen and grand avenue? sounds upscale... that intersection has a mcdonalds *and* a taco bell.

-M

/yes, i'm being a wiseacre.

It has neither a McDonalds nor a Taco Bell;) In fact, the only fast food within a reasonable distance of Nichols Hills are the Sonic and Subway on Western.

Nope, MMM got me. Damn, damn, damn.... Grand Boulevard, not Grand Avenue. Yes, big difference. Couldn't believe it when I read it this morning. Getting fixed online this morning.

Exactly



Agreed, I think this is the biggest factor into us getting one. If CHK broke ground on a building soon, we'd see one a heck of a lot earlier than 2012.

You've been talking about this now for five years, how it's about to happen.

I won't say that Whole Foods won't come to Oklahoma City, but it won't be here. I looked at the demographics for the three surrounding zip codes (it's about 50 square miles) to Classen Curve and only 73116 has good demographics and it only has a population of 7k people. The other two zips, including the one the site is in (73112) have pretty dismal numbers.

Only 28% of adults in the 73112 zip have a degree, the per-capita income of the zip is under 21k and the median home value is only 73k. They also can't like that the site is 4 blocks from a Wal-Mart Supercenter.

Whole Foods says they want a densely populated area with good wealth and a high percentage of college educated people in the area. Classen Curve doesn't sound like a place that Whole Foods would locate to, especially without liquor.

Sorry, Chesapeake may be trying to get them, but those numbers don't look to equal Whole Foods agreeing to come. That's even more true in the current economy. Someone needs to find them another location. Probably further up north.

....

Sorry, Chesapeake may be trying to get them, but those numbers don't look to equal Whole Foods agreeing to come. That's even more true in the current economy. Someone needs to find them another location. Probably further up north.
I will say it mostly depends on the terms that Chesapeake agrees to in regards to the property, not all their stores meet every piece of their criteria. A friend worked for WF a few years ago in their real estate department and OKC was on the radar then as a "future market" (no particular timetable) and that was before the Wild Oats acquisition. If Chesapeake gives them enough incentive to locate a store in Classen Curve, it will happen. It will never be as quickly as some would like but it will happen. Quite a few of their locations are "incentive-ized" by developers who want WF as an anchor tenant. The Quarry location in San Antonio was one of these from what I have been told, WF got a sweet deal from the developer.

OKC is also a bit different dynamic, most people are used to traveling further to a specific destination than in most other markets. I know people here in Austin who whine and cry about something going on in the side of town they don't live in, we are talking about a less than 10 mile trip in most cases, Austin has around the same population as OKC but would probably fit in the area that most consider NW OKC. Most of the people that I know in OKC would drive 20 or so miles to a place like Whole Foods, most of them do it already for other stores they like to shop at that are already located there. It will be a regional attraction in OKC (OKC Metro region) and not a localized one, that has traditionally been the case in OKC and a different market dynamic than most other markets. I can bet weekends would be nuts there, I know they are at the two locations here.

You've been talking about this now for five years, how it's about to happen.

I won't say that Whole Foods won't come to Oklahoma City, but it won't be here. I looked at the demographics for the three surrounding zip codes (it's about 50 square miles) to Classen Curve and only 73116 has good demographics and it only has a population of 7k people. The other two zips, including the one the site is in (73112) have pretty dismal numbers.

Only 28% of adults in the 73112 zip have a degree, the per-capita income of the zip is under 21k and the median home value is only 73k. They also can't like that the site is 4 blocks from a Wal-Mart Supercenter.

Whole Foods says they want a densely populated area with good wealth and a high percentage of college educated people in the area. Classen Curve doesn't sound like a place that Whole Foods would locate to, especially without liquor.

Sorry, Chesapeake may be trying to get them, but those numbers don't look to equal Whole Foods agreeing to come. That's even more true in the current economy. Someone needs to find them another location. Probably further up north.

Wow, I've been saying that for 5 years? Please cite specific example.

Metro hasn't been saying this for five years and Shake won't be able to cite an example otherwise. Rumors started in 2009 - about the time that people I've talked to say negotiations were underway between the retailer and Chesapeake. Metro, like many others, seized upon those rumors....
Sources I've got say it's a letter of intent. That's not a lease, but it's certainly proof that whatever the numbers are, they're doing some serious flirting.

Metro, you're grammar has gone to pot. :poke:

Not to quibble, but if you're criticizing someone for their grammar, shouldn't yours be correct?

In this case, the use of "you're" in your sentence is incorrect, and instead should be the possessive "your."

Back to the thread. When are we getting the Whole Foods, Steve?

Shoot! I'm usually so good about triple checking my you/r/'res. ;)

damn, damn, damn.... grand boulevard, not grand avenue.
: ) no big deal, but of course i had to give you a hard time about it!


it has neither a mcdonalds nor a taco bell. in fact, the only fast food within a reasonable distance of nichols hills are the sonic and subway on western.

as you probably know, sheridan ave. used to be called grand ave. classen & sheridan has the mcdonalds & taco bell. as for nichols hills fast food, don't forget city bites!

-M

Wow, I've been saying that for 5 years? Please cite specific example.

I do apologize,

I'm a little off, the first post I could find was from October 2005:

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/4456-whole-foods-coming.html

4 years and 5 months ago:



I know this topic has been talked about numerous times but lately I have been hearing rumors that they have decided on OKC. I dont have enough evidence other than rumors and from people I dont normally get my credited information from, that OKC has been chosen for a new site, particularly Nichols Hills. I was just curious if anyone else has heard anything new. In the meantime, I emailed them and got this as a reply:

Quote:
Thank you very much for your interest in Whole Foods Market and obvious support of our company. We appreciate your desire to have one of our stores located in your area. Your email will be forwarded to the Store Location Development Team for consideration.
Quote:
Unfortunately, we don't comment on potential locations.


Sincerely,

Julie Merrill

Customer Information Coordinator

Wow, I didn't realize we had talked about it for so long. Nonetheless, I didn't make claims that it was coming and clearly stated it was rumors and I posted a reply from Whole Foods, which did not indicate they were coming. Since that time, I have had more credible sources provide new information as has Steve.

About republic, I'm pretty disappointed that it won't have one of the covered patio areas next to it. Hopefully some of the new restaurants opening here will utilize those courtyards/patios, but I would prefer those that do to be more of a drinkng place and not necessarily just a restaurant. Basically, I'd rather be on a republic patio than an Upper Crust patio.

Also, I have a feeling parking is going to be aweful. Even moreso as they get more tenants, especially along the northern strip of CC

Wow, I didn't realize we had talked about it for so long. Nonetheless, I didn't make claims that it was coming, let alone to Classen Curve (which didn't exist back then) and clearly stated it was rumors and I posted a reply from Whole Foods, which did not indicate they were coming. Since that time, I have had more credible sources provide new information as has Steve.

About republic, I'm pretty disappointed that it won't have one of the covered patio areas next to it. Hopefully some of the new restaurants opening here will utilize those courtyards/patios, but I would prefer those that do to be more of a drinkng place and not necessarily just a restaurant. Basically, I'd rather be on a republic patio than an Upper Crust patio.

Also, I have a feeling parking is going to be aweful. Even moreso as they get more tenants, especially along the northern strip of CC

FYI, RePUBlic does have outdoor seating in the rear, and it was pretty killer too, outdoor lounge furniture and weatherproof tv's housed in what I'm guessing is weatherproof entertainment units.

FYI, RePUBlic does have outdoor seating in the rear, and it was pretty killer too, outdoor lounge furniture and weatherproof tv's housed in what I'm guessing is weatherproof entertainment units.

I did see something on the western side of rePUBlic that looked like a patio, which is good. However, in Oklahoma a patio really needs to be covered to be comfortable and get the most use. We dont get many beautiful days like today. I think there were some tall bushes on the west side of patio that might provide shade in evening times. But with that said, restaurants and bars that want a good patio cant just throw out tables and chairs on a concrete slab and expect people to show up. You got to think of how the sun/wind/elements will effect the patrons.

Four years ago you had three sets of developers chasing after Whole Foods, and that's probably where the rumors started.

Oh? Who else besides Aubrey? I'm guessing one was Humphreys (for the 36th St project).

Quail Springs the third

Had lunch today at RePUBlic. Here's a quick, down & dirty review: The parking wasn’t an issue when we arrived at 11:00 a.m., but it’s always going to be very tight (the employees are expecting to have to shuttle in from a satellite parking lot). Walking in the front door, we were presented with lots of hard, black surfaces and a high ceiling, with beer bottles going all the way up two walls. Along the north bar back, beer taps run for around 20 linear feet under a bank of TV sets, over which is installed the biggest TV screen this side of the Ford Center. (There was an architectural oversight with the placement of cold beer taps adjacent to warm electronics, but I’m sure they’ll keep things under control). Sound levels are partially controlled by acoustic panels among the ceiling beams, so conversation was easy even with rock music playing across the hard surfaces. The kitchen is on the north side of the space, and between it and the bar is where they keep the beer – scores of kegs, hundreds of cases of bottles in bakers racks, in a two-story-high walk-in refrigerator that looks like a Bond villain’s secret lair. Oddly, there was a sign on the walk-in door prohibiting entry to anyone under 21 years of age. Hmmm -I guess if it's big enough to walk in, you've got to install the placard. Indoor seating is in four-person, high-backed booths (22-25 booths), plus a half-dozen outdoor seating areas. The patio area is bordered by a dense, mature hedge row about 8’ high, and each seating area has a large screen TV on top of a cold air blower. (We were told that each seating area had a space heater until last night, when all but one were stolen – look for outside security modifications.) The food was about the least-healthy thing you could imagine, and was fantastic! We had the pulled chicken nachos, a Classen Burger (think of an upscale Theta), and a Coke, and were out for $18.50 + tip. Sadly, only two desserts (including a beer float). The hundreds of beer menu groups by category, and then from light to dark. (They could have fun with a contest to see who is the first to drink every beer they offer.) All food and beverage is on their Web site REPUBLIC (http://www.republicgastropub.com/#republic). And employees come partially from “the family” (other Good Egg restaurants), or have been poached from the competition. All were attentive and pleasant.

Reservations – not right now. And you’ll be asked to wait for a table if either the dining room or kitchen is backed up. Both are good ideas.

FYI there's a RePUBlic thread in the food court section. Oh yes and the outdoor heaters were custom made, pretty neat looking. I guess they'd be easy to spot in someones backyard.

Went last night. Food was great, finally a sports watching replacement for the Varsity.

But about the shopping center. Parking is going to be an even bigger problem than I originally thought. I wouldnt imagine many retailers wanting to locate in the spaces next to rePUBlic as they chewed up all surrounding parking. They will have to find a way for employees to park elsewhere as someone mentioned above. Even with this and Upper Crust and Cafe 501 spaced out evenly throughout the center, it will still be tough to find parking at peak hours.

The only ones that are probably happy are 105 Degrees, who could definitely use the extra traffic.

Hopefully, Classen Curve will not be a single destination type shopping center, in which case parking at the front door of a specific place shouldn't matter. I would hate for it end up being just another strip mall and, to do that, I think t has to be more walkable. And the more people "have" to walk, the more storefronts they walk by. This is actually a GOOD thing for all retailers in the development and is the whole point of doing a targeted shopping development rather than just another hodge podge strip center.

If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking. It obviously meets code minimums for parking places - even including the many restaurants - but this shows the dangers of achieving only the minimum. I envision that the leases do (or will) require tenant employees to park off-site, and that will have to be enforced.

If you read Rand's comments on why he designed it that way, is so that it would give it a "main street" feel internally and to cause walking past storefronts, etc. I think if it were a bigger sea of parking, it would be single destination shopping center only.

If you read Rand's comments on why he designed it that way, is so that it would give it a "main street" feel internally and to cause walking past storefronts, etc. I think if it were a bigger sea of parking, it would be single destination shopping center only. Agree Metro. This is not meant to be another "cookie cutter" shopping center or destination it is designed to encourage pedistrian walking and looking at window store fronts and displays. This is good for OKC as it is different and unique and not your typical shopping center. I do not think parking will be as big of an issue as some people have mentioned.

and heaven forbid we actually have dense, packed looking shopping centers in the inner ring of the city!

If CC has an Achilles heel it is the parking.

I agree, but not because there isn't enough of it. They obviously had to work within our codes and they certainly made an improvement, but the parking lot is still the center piece of the design. I think that's what holds up a lot of our retail developments, at least in the sense of creating an atmosphere that many of today's top retailers look for, which is a better pedestrian flow to drive more foot traffic past their front door.

Maybe there's not a lot of parking at each storefront, but there is still a ton of parking in this development. In fact, if this fails because of lack of parking, then I think we can forget about attracting developments in the future that more closely mirror more modern developments that attract the "hot" retail stores. Hopefully, the opposite will happen, and CC will show that OKC is ready for a more pedestrian friendly shopping experience that allows for the type of storefront density that many are looking for today.

Without having seen expansion plans or knowing of much else that is going on in the immediate area, I would say that it provides a fairly cool opportunity for a developer to build a structured garage very close by and wrapped with retail at ground level and then residential above. that way the vertical aspect is concealed and it provides a supporting role that would be an income generator and showcase the retail that is closest as people head over to CC.

It will probably take the opening of several more of the anticipated retailers first though to create the demand pressure that we all see is inevitable.

I don't have Rand's quote from Sunday's paper, but I felt his statement about evoking a "downtown" feel was frankly ridiculous. It's a strip center with parking on the back and an industrial design. It certainly doesn't make me think of OKC's Main Street in the 1950s, and when I hear Petula Clark singing "Downtown," Classen Curve won't be one of the images that comes to mind.

To parking specifics: Can anyone find how many spaces they provided, and what was required in their permit?

Hopefully, Classen Curve will not be a single destination type shopping center, in which case parking at the front door of a specific place shouldn't matter. I would hate for it end up being just another strip mall and, to do that, I think t has to be more walkable. And the more people "have" to walk, the more storefronts they walk by. This is actually a GOOD thing for all retailers in the development and is the whole point of doing a targeted shopping development rather than just another hodge podge strip center.

But thats the thing, this is a strip center. Just because its designed by a hip architect and built with fancy finishes doesnt change the fact that its still a strip center. It has no depth and no parking. You guys must not get the realities of real estate development. You cant hope that customers will want to park far away from their destination and stroll along the store fronts on their way. If you dont offer relatively close and convenient parking, you will lose customers. Plain and simple. I have a worse feeling about parking once all 4 restaurants are open.
They should have waited and tried to acquire another row of houses for more parking and depth. Something more of a square or plaza would have been better, think Spring Creek Plaza in Edmond. That would have helped with getting desired national tenants. I think they will end up with more mom and pop tenants, that in the end, will struggle to survive.

You're saying it is a strip center because it has no sea of parking? That makes no sense. Spring Creek is pretty tight on parking as well, especially the newer part west of Bryant that has more restaurants.

You're saying it is a strip center because it has no sea of parking? That makes no sense. Spring Creek is pretty tight on parking as well, especially the newer part west of Bryant that has more restaurants.

I call it a strip center because it is long and narrow. And I'm referring to spring creek plaza which is on the east side and more of a center than a strip. And CC doesn't need a sea of parking but it does need adequate parking. Dallas has several strip centers similar to CC and with similar parking numbers, or even less, but what makes it work is that there are usually hundreds of housing units in close proximity. Not the case with CC, people still will have to drive there and park, if they can find a space.

Not trying to be all negative, just pointing out the realities of it.