Frontier is holding tight. They secured DIP financing, they got their credit card processing issue fixed (which forced them into Chapter 11). The biggest hurdle now is how to address Southwest wanting to come in and kill them off. I don't see Southwest doing to them what they did to ATA. Frontier has a strong product, a great following in Denver, and has really corrected some dumb decisions made in the past.

Of course people can say Frontier is going to die. A report was put out today that United is better off folder and liquidating than continue their rebuilding. Then you have people that said USAir would be gone...I think there was a story a week from the early 90s through last year...and still are.

Southwest will be eliminating one of the 3 daily flights to Phoenix from OKC starting this fall. This will take the airline down to 2 daily flights. The market overall will fall from a high of 5 daily flights currently down to 2 once US Airways pulls out as well.

The early morning flight was replaced by a "direct" flight with 2 stops en route.

Frontier is likely going to fold entirely before too long. But Southwest is now flying from both OKC and Tulsa to Denver.

American has had a daily 757 to Tulsa from Dallas for years, but it's there to a large extent to move planes to and from the airbase. They unveiled a 757 with the Race for the Cure ribbon painted down the side here yesterday as a matter of fact.

Tulsa World: Jets go pink to aid Komen (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080812_11_A9_CUTLIN982665 )

Swake, Im not surprised that AA flies 757's to Tulsa, since it is their maintenance center. Just like Im not surprised to see Alaska Airline's planes in OKC even though they don't provide pax service to OKC.

But for United to fly 757 to OKC, that's saying something. United already has quite a number of daily flights between Den and OKC, for one of them to be in a 757 that's saying something, since OKC is not a mtc base or focus city for UAL.

Tulsa is a American Airlines corporate city, OKC is not one for United (but it is the largest ops in the state), hence the 757?.

Frankly, I am getting a little irritated at the airlines and/or airport management. Year over year OKC is STILL showing gains in passenger traffic, yet the airlines continue to cut back. I hope that airport management is not sitting back and letting it happen. Are they showing the airlines how good things are in OKC? Maybe the airlines are just assuming things are bad here like the rest of the country?

Frankly, I am getting a little irritated at the airlines and/or airport management. Year over year OKC is STILL showing gains in passenger traffic, yet the airlines continue to cut back. I hope that airport management is not sitting back and letting it happen. Are they showing the airlines how good things are in OKC? Maybe the airlines are just assuming things are bad here like the rest of the country?

This has nothing to do with the airport, all it can do for now is try as best as it can to keep the service it has right now. If you've seen the news, you'll know that even with the falling price of crude oil, jet fuel's price isn't falling as much, and so the airlines are still going to cut back whereever they see unprofitable service.

Airports all over the U.S. are seeing cut backs/eliminations, it's not just OKC. Heck, LAX is getting whacked right now, DL and UA are both eliminating around 20-25% of their daily schedule at LAX, and international carriers are also either cutting back sharply or eliminating service altogether. For LAX, the cuts are significant.

San Jose Airport has lost all but one of its transnational flights. That's gotta be bad especially for Silicon Valley business travelers. Overall, OKC's in pretty good shape for now.

I suspect that if crude oil prices continue to fall though, then slowly you'll see jet fuel's price start falling more as well, and airlines may start adding flights back.

The cut backs are going to happen as airlines try to raise load factors and increase fares. Easiest way to increase fares, cut available capacity.

Southwest is expected to actually post its first overall loss next quarter...first time ever for them. Lately they have been able to avoid this by balancing their operational (airline) losses with the profit made by their Oil Hedging Business fund/arm. Things will continue like this for awhile...at least until passengers are able to pay more to fly. I would also expect any long nonstop flights to be under the gun from OKC...especially from Southwest. So PHX, already 1 cut, and next may be LAS and BWI.

at least until passengers are able to pay more to fly.


Which may be a while given the inflation we're projected to experience in the next couple of years based on the Fed's rate cuts.

The cut backs are going to happen as airlines try to raise load factors and increase fares. Easiest way to increase fares, cut available capacity.

Southwest is expected to actually post its first overall loss next quarter...first time ever for them. Lately they have been able to avoid this by balancing their operational (airline) losses with the profit made by their Oil Hedging Business fund/arm. Things will continue like this for awhile...at least until passengers are able to pay more to fly. I would also expect any long nonstop flights to be under the gun from OKC...especially from Southwest. So PHX, already 1 cut, and next may be LAS and BWI.

BWI flights I can see being dropped. I don't think WN will drop the only-remaining between here and LAS. Vegas is still a good destination for us and last I heard that flight is doing quite well.

I'll need to check, but I think BWI is higher yeilding than LAS...and would be the logical first cut.

Look at the way airlines are dumping nonstop from LAS and a lot of Florida cities in markets that people through would be strong, and are load wise - just not yeild wise.

There are announcements off/on here in Austin about losing direct service connections as well. I wish JetBlue would pick up OKC, we fly them direct from Austin to Boston and JFK and it is great....except for the two hour delay out of JFK last Wednesday night but every other airline was running the same type of delays at both JFK, LaGuardia and Logan that night. If we were to move to Boston a direct flight home to see the family in OKC would be very nice.

Yeah...JetBlue and AirTran would be the two I would want to see in OKC. Alaska a close third.

I flew out of OKC yesterday afternoon and saw a Northwest Airlines 747 parked east of the terminal near the cargo planes. Anyone have an idea what it was doing here? Could it have been a college football charter plane for the OU game or maintenance?

charter, for Nebraska I bet

I flew out of OKC yesterday afternoon and saw a Northwest Airlines 747 parked east of the terminal near the cargo planes. Anyone have an idea what it was doing here? Could it have been a college football charter plane for the OU game or maintenance?

I saw it sitting on the tarmac Friday afternoon (closer to the passenger terminal) and was wondering the same thing. Didn't see anything on the news about it, so I'm guessing it wasn't a critical situation.

Nebraska charter. Northwest has had that contract for years...Nebraska has money. :)

Nebraska charter. Northwest has had that contract for years...Nebraska has money. :)

Hmm...then I hope Mrs. AAC forgets that I mentioned the plane being there. If she finds out that money was spent on SPORTS, especially collegiate football, she'll freak and rant...again.:numchucks

(She's not anti-sports per se, she just has this crazy idea that money should be spent on education and law enforcement, not building a new, ugly covered stadium next to a perfectly good domed one, i.e. Indianapolis and others, or chartering a jet for a bunch of fat cats)

Holy crap, a 747 for a football team? Damn...

I will check into it, but it was more than likely a repo that was diverted due to wx (weather), or it could have been a scheduled maintenance stop. AAR has some pretty major aircraft overhaul services here and they win an impressive amount of contracts. (DL has aircraft sitting out there on a regular basis...MD-88s and some comair CRJ-100/200s as well)

A couple months ago, we got an AA 777 that diverted to OKC from japan, I think. Blown engine. Had to offload the pax at gate 24 because it was the only gate positioned where it would cram in without hitting anything or blocking the taxiway. AAR had the engine torn apart out on the remote pad on the ramp. Got some pics somewhere here...

Unfortunately sgray, you are 100% incorrect and it was the Nebraska charter.

FlightAware > Live Flight Tracker > Northwest Airlines Inc. #9974 (http://flightaware.com/live/flight/NWA9974)

Date Type Origin Destination Departure Arrival Duration
02-Nov-2008 B742/Q Will Rogers World (KOKC) Lincoln (KLNK) 12:51AM 01:43AM 0:52

Also, Northwest also hasn't flown the 747-200s on schedule services for years. They are dedicated to charter operations.

So, where did it get parked at the terminal? It didn't go there. We have no ability to service widebodies at OKC. For any airline...although on the cargo side it is possible.

While it is likely that it was indeed a charter, a flight aware log does not indicate the purpose of the visit. Even if it was a charter, for a widebody it was likely handled by AAR. I know NWA, I work for them. =)

sgray - I happened to be out and about and saw the flight land. In my curiosity, I drove over to the terminal to see what it was doing here. I noticed a group of 5 charter buses on the tarmac next to the plane. When the buses drove out I noticed signs saying "Nebraska" on each bus. Therefore, it's quite safe to say that yes, it was the Nebraska charter. Also, they just parked it next to UPS and used portable stairs to deplane in the open air.

AAR = All American Rejects??

Yeah, more or less...ha ha...no really, most of the mechanics at AAR are cool to work with.

No, no, no.

http://www.xtremets.com.au/store/images/aar12%20logo.jpg

It was parked on the cargo ramp next to the UPS 75 that was there.

If you keep up with what is going on out there, you have a good idea on why a plane would be there. AA widebodies - look at DFW and see if there are storms. NWA 742 that is flying to Lincoln after a football game, pretty self explanatory. :)

Sgray - meant to ask, how are things going to be handled out there for you guys with the merger? Have they progressed that far in what they are doing with the station operations, or is it in the air? I can't remember if NWA is union or not for the ground and gate crews.

I've seen a Garuda Indonesia 737-500, retired Alitalia M80s and other aircraft you normally don't see at OKC. So occasionally, OKC does handle "other" traffic, either for aircraft that need storage space or for aircraft that need service through AAR Corp.

venture79,

Evergreen runs the UPS ramp and likely was handling that charter although DL may have gotten the contract for it. Things are run a little different on the NW side now. Check your PM for answers to your more detailed operations stuff...

Here's additional proof that it was a Nebraska football charter. (http://flickr.com/photos/somethingweird/2996930142/)

Oh my god it's an airplane!

:bright_id

dee³

Tex, so I take it you or someone you know is working for Aramark down on the Delta end?

Tex, so I take it you or someone you know is working for Aramark down on the Delta end?

nope, it was quite funny how i found that picture. after my original posting i did a little google searching and i don't remember what keywords i entered but it linked me to that flick account and the person with that account had just uploaded the pic a few days earlier. great pics though.

I have seen some odd stuff out there, one time I was taking a friend out to the airport and that huge Russian cargo plane was parked on an apron. I know that it had just been on a trip from Rhode Island to Maui deliver two Americas Cup class yachts from the builder in Rhode Island for the Kenwood Cup races around Maui. It was about two days after I saw the pics of them loaded in the plane and being unloaded in Maui. The boat a friend of mine was on had been delivered by freighter from New Zealand.

We've had some crazy charter stuff late this summer. It was like they were digging up old planes from the desert to do charter runs. We had one ugly-a** 737-200 that was painted the ugliest green I've ever seen. It was doing some one-off runs to Gulfport, or should I say Vegas #2...

We used to have all kinds of charters regularly...ATA, champion, allegiant, etc...

In fact, that Allegiant in the background of the pic was the last of the worry-free stuff I worked before they pulled out in October.

----

TEX, I was just wondering about the pics you found. I used to run the ramp down there both before and after Delta made the move to the new gates...after Aramark underbid Delta Global, it pretty much handed over to McDonald's grade workers on the ramp...nearly none of us stayed...a lot went to other states to states with the company...the turnover with Aramark is off the charts. That's supposed to change in January though when the contract comes up for bid.


VENTURE79, did you get that PM I sent you?

It's a fact that SW has increased its service to and from the Oklahoma City area and all of its flights in general.
I know people are taking SW instead of US mainly because they were cheaper. It will works its self out, it always does. We need some major business's to come here, that will attract more airlines. Unfortunately we are still considered small potatoes in the big picture.

I have seen some odd stuff out there, one time I was taking a friend out to the airport and that huge Russian cargo plane was parked on an apron. I know that it had just been on a trip from Rhode Island to Maui deliver two Americas Cup class yachts from the builder in Rhode Island for the Kenwood Cup races around Maui. It was about two days after I saw the pics of them loaded in the plane and being unloaded in Maui. The boat a friend of mine was on had been delivered by freighter from New Zealand.

I believe what you saw was the Antonov AN-124, which is a four-engined plane. Now that isn't the company's largest, the largest plane Antonov has manufactured is the world's largest plane in regular commercial service, the AN-225, which is a six-engine plane.

Btw sgray, you work for AAR? Just curious. :)

No, I work on the ramp over at the terminal.

I believe what you saw was the Antonov AN-124, which is a four-engined plane. Now that isn't the company's largest, the largest plane Antonov has manufactured is the world's largest plane in regular commercial service, the AN-225, which is a six-engine plane.
It was the worlds largest, I had seen it at Will Rogers for the air show about 2 months prior to when I saw it there. I don't think the other plane could handle the two Americas Cup class boats (78 foot long hulls with a 40 or so foot keel to deck height. The boat builder made a big deal out of the biggest plane carrying the boats to Maui on their website. There were only like two of them in existence at that time (around 1994).

I can only find one documented case of when the An-225 was in OKC, the 1990 Aerospace America. Only one was ever finished, a second that was mothballed should be flyable by the end of this year or next year. The current one was used for the Soviet Space Shuttle Buran's transport.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/df/Buran_On_Antonov225.jpg

eDEC66kam34

^Yep, the second airframe is being restored, it is scheduled to be in service late this year or early next year.The AN 225 was at OKC? Man, I really want to see it in person.

sgray, thanks for the reply. I'm guessing you work the DL/DL Conn ramp then?

Btw, for those curious, the daily departure count at OKC as of Dec. 15th. We're down to about 74 daily. Delta has dropped its M88 between here and Atlanta, so it's all Delta Connection now.

Daily departures from OKC by airline (as of Dec. 15th):

-American 7; M80; DFW
-American Eagle 3; ER4, ORD (3)
-American Connection (Trans States) 1; ER4, STL
-American Connection (Chautauqua) 1; ERD, STL
-Continental 2; 735, 73G; IAH
-Continental Express (Expressjet) 8; ER4, ER4X; IAH (7), EWR (1)
-Delta Conn (ASA) 6; CR1, CR7; ATL
-Delta Conn (Comair) 2; CR1, CR2; CVG
-Delta Conn (Skywest) 2; ER4; SLC
-Frontier 1; 318; DEN
-Frontier Jet Express (Lynx) 2; DHQ4; DEN
-Northwest Jetlink (Pinnacle) 6; CR2; MEM (2), MSP (2), DTW (2)
-Northwest Jetlink (Compass) 1; E175; MEM
-Southwest 21; 733, 735, 73G; BWI (1), DAL (5), DEN (2), HOU (4), MCI (3), LAS (1), PHX (3), STL (2)
-United 2; 319, 320; DEN
-United Express (Go Jet) 2; CR7; IAD (1), ORD (1)
-United Express (Skywest) 5; CR2, CR7; DEN (3), LAX (1), ORD (2)
-United Express (Trans States) 1; ER4; ORD
-United Express (Mesa) 1; CR7; ORD

Total: 74 daily departures

venture, if you see anything amiss feel free to correct it.

No, I used to lead the ramp for delta up until early '07. I've been floating since, waiting for the DL contract to renew. Worked the UA, F9, and NW ops since then. A great deal of us left when Aramark came in with McDonald's wages and underbid the below-wing DL ops. That is supposed to change again in January, so we'll see... Aramark has lost every contract Delta Global Services had out there so it is likely they are gone in January...some companies should just stick to selling uniforms! =)

Ahh I see.

double post...sorry.

Me again (I think my original post got losted):

This is going back a few months or so, before I knew about OKCTalk, but can anyone explain why there was a PanAm jet parked at WRWA for what seemed like a few weeks? It was parked near what I'm guessing was the cargo area at the northern end of the airport.

^If you mean on the east side of the airport north of the terminal, yeah, that's the cargo ramp. I'm guessing it was parked for storage or something, Pan Am III went out of business in 2004 I believe.

For the last couple of years, I've been seeing those Pan Am planes taxiing to/from the federal xfr center...I think whoever is operating those aircraft must have the federal contract for moving the prisoners...sometimes I will see them parked on the remote pad outside of AAR. The allegiant/champion charters would do the same thing between runs. If they came in on a tues evening and weren't needing to repo the a/c to another airport for a run, we would just push/park it on the remote pad for a couple of days, which was almost always the case.

Well the picture in question is mine. For sgray... would be interesting to find out who had the ramp where I am working now =) but I do kind of resent the term "Mc Donalds grade workers". Let's not talk wages, though. There's a reason why I have to pick up a second job. But somehow I doubt a little that Aramark will be gone come end of January.
As for the location of said plane, it was indeed parked on Delta's remote area, in front of cargo east of the terminal.

No, I used to lead the ramp for delta up until early '07. I've been floating since, waiting for the DL contract to renew. Worked the UA, F9, and NW ops since then. A great deal of us left when Aramark came in with McDonald's wages and underbid the below-wing DL ops. That is supposed to change again in January, so we'll see... Aramark has lost every contract Delta Global Services had out there so it is likely they are gone in January...some companies should just stick to selling uniforms! =)

this guy is full of c@$#. he never once ran any ramp for delta. because he was NOT ever made a lead or supervisor, he did NOT work ops, he was and more than likely still is just a bin b!@#$ for any airline that he has ever worked for. trust the word of somebody who used to work with the little ugly, stupid, lying, fool. you can't trust a freaking word he says. for god sakes he was fired from aramark aviation because he was caught STEALING.

by the way sgray. you freaking bill doltree looking a@@ from king of the hill, did you really think that the agents who are still with delta wouldn't see this?!? we will work circles around you because we know what we're doing. we don't have to worry about getting fired from our jobs (unlike you). and by the way i have it on good authority from some unnamed sources that your still with NWA because they cannot afford the loss in man power. NOT because your a valuable asset. like the hard working agents at delta.

not only that you jack a@@. i have friends who work for UA and F9 who have told me that when you worked for them that you were nothing but a lazy, worthless, "person". and that they were REALLY happy when you left. (or did you get fired from them too?!?)

before you start posting slanderous LIES about people and companies perhaps you should take a minute to think. "what are the chances that some people that i used to work with are going to be able to see this?!?" hmmmm gee i wonder. quit lying to people and stop trying to make it look like you know everything because from where i sit you know everything about NOTHING!!! :boxing2::beaten_fi:fighting3:fighting3:fighting2: laughing_