Yeah we did. That bodes well for us.

The evidence which was kicked out was good news for the PBC. If the City's aim was to argue along the lines of the Minnesota Twins case, where "civic pride" was what led to the grant of the equitable remedy, its case took a few huge hits. The sports radio personality as well as other evidence of the 'hurt feelings' which might occur should the Sonics be allowed to buy out the lease will not be heard. This narrows their argument quite a bit.

I was a little worried about that Minnesota Twins case. Now, that's much less the case.

I actually don't think there will be a settlement now for this reason. I fully expect the Sonics are going to win the case and they are going to walk away and owe less than $5 million. If there is a settlement it would have to be initiated by the City and I don't see that happening with their current crop of leadership.

Man, I hop eyou're right, Kerry.

Some people will never get the "cow" dung off their boots. They wear it with a "badge" of honor. It really is time to move past the cowboy image of our city and strive to be a "more" cosmopolitan, progressive city that I know we can become. What is wrong with being modern, open minded and exploring new ideas. I for one, embrace OKC being the modern, cosmopolitan city that it truly deserves to be. Believe me there is more to country and western and horses!!

can't we have the best of both worlds; a little of each, and continue to grow with a great heritage and glowing future...without the past OKC would not be what it is today...and without innovative minds the future and outlook would be very glum. A little bit country and a little bit cosmo suits me just fine..
:tiphat:

Y'all are showing your insecurity regarding the topic by just talking about it.

Repeat after me:

"The--cowboy--image--is--no--big--deal."

Better?? A city's image is what it is. You can no more change that than you could change the topography of the city. National perception isn't going to be what we will it to be, but rather it'll be whatever it'll be.

What any of this has to do with the Sonics lawsuit, I'll never know.

On their web-page the OKC C of C touts OKC as being "The Horse Capitol". How backwards is that. No wonder all those people up in NYC and out in L.A. think we still ride our horses to work.

The only people who think we ride horses to work are the morons who are too ignorant to help anyway. I don't think everybody in New York is a baseball obsessing, Italian, who has connections to the mob. Nor do I think that all Californians own surfboards and speak in "valley" slang. Only the idiots believe the stereotypes about us too, and who cares about them.
We are who we are.

OK i have never seen such a bunch of cry babies in Seattle , get over it.

You lost the team. Your "loyal owners' sold it to Clay. You had your changes to keep them.

Your area is falling apart. the "loyal" city cant pass any taxes to build another one.

Where are all the "loyal" fans, oh yea on ok city's BB complaining and whining,

Drop it already. They will soon be okc 's team. be it this fall or after 2010.

I doubt the judge will rule to force an owner to keep the team there. At most she will rule some monatary settlement to get out of the last 2 yrs contract.

If the team does have to stay there for 2 years, are all of you 'loyal fans' going to go to the games and give your money to Clay????

I doubt it.

The Tulsa 66ers of the NBA Developmental League will become the minor-league affiliate of the Sonics for the 2008-09 season, the NBA announced Wednesday as part of extensive changes made to the D-League’s affiliation system.

The NBA made changes to the D-League’s affiliation system to accommodate league expansion. The D-League will add two new franchises in Erie, Pa. and Reno, Nev. for the upcoming season, bumping the number of teams in the league to 16.

Despite the Sonics impending relocation to Oklahoma City, the NBA in a release on Wednesday didn’t make any mention of the 66ers potentially playing just 90 miles away from the Ford Center or provide any reason for the change.

Since 2005, the Idaho Stampede in Boise, Idaho had been the Sonics’ D-League affiliate along with the Portland Trail Blazers. The Sonics will now share their Tulsa affiliation with the Milwaukee Bucks.

NBA rules allow teams to send first or second-year players to their D-League affiliates up to three times each season. The 66ers were the D-League affiliate of the Hornets during their two-year stay in Oklahoma City.

The Sonics are scheduled to begin a six-day federal court trial Monday with the city of Seattle to determine when the team can relocate. The Sonics’ Oklahoma City-based ownership group is seeking to buyout the remaining two years of their KeyArena lease and move to Oklahoma City in time for the 2008-09 NBA season. Seattle officials are looking to bind the team to the remaining two lease years.

I'd be willing to place money on the fact that it's the younger crowd on this forum who is screaming for a new modern cosmo while the older crowd wants to still play cowboys and indians.

Haha, I think a new modern casino is good for OKC AND I still want to play cowboys and indians. I am 27.

Please define old/young. I am 38 and I am not a "cowboy boot" fan. I guess it mean I am young.

Some people will never get the "cow" dung off their boots. They wear it with a "badge" of honor. It really is time to move past the cowboy image of our city and strive to be a "more" cosmopolitan, progressive city that I know we can become. What is wrong with being modern, open minded and exploring new ideas. I for one, embrace OKC being the modern, cosmopolitan city that it truly deserves to be. Believe me there is more to country and western and horses!!You've tweaked my curiosity, could you please expand on how much more of it there is.... and what it is.

Kerry, yes, you can be in the young crowd, we'll put Mallen in the old crowd, lol.

Uh oh.. ANDY's got someone.

I'll take the old crowd. ;)

I think that most people I run into find it interesting (our image) and colorful. I live in Texas now, and have in the past... but I spent close to 40 years in Oklahoma City & Tulsa. The Texans do not worry about part of their image being "Cowboys & Native Americans" at all, they are damned proud of it as they quite proud of all the other parts to their image. They do not see themselves as defined by outsiders, but rather by themselves, i.e., as a mix of the old and new the past and future. When I go out, I have a choice, I can go to Gilleys or some Jazz place, it's America ! Some people will be surprised what they call 'old' one of these days soon --- If you're alive, you're young. Enjoy it !

Well Yee-Haw!

Certainly if Seattle think there is a reasonable chance the Sonics will win, they should be negotiating right now for a big buyout:

Sonics think $10M should buy out Seattle lease
The Associated PressPublished: June 12, 2008

SEATTLE: The SuperSonics' argument for why they should be allowed to move to Oklahoma City next season is succinctly stated in the trial brief for the team's upcoming court battle with the city of Seattle.

"Leases are generally not specifically enforceable," reads the first sentence of the Sonics' brief, obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday night after it was filed in federal court in advance of a trial set to begin here Monday.

The Sonics, Seattle's oldest professional sports franchise with 41 years in town, are seeking to break the final two years of their lease at KeyArena by paying the city a sum of no more than $10, which the team believes would satisfy the rental agreement with the arena. The team's states it lost $30 million this past season, when the Sonics were 20-62, their worst-ever record.

The city, which also filed its brief Wednesday, argues the lease requires "specific performance," that is, the Sonics need to play in KeyArena through the 2009-2010 season.

U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman is presiding over the non-jury trial, expected to wrap up June 26.

"Damages in the form of rent make the landlord whole," the Sonics' brief states. "The facts show it is time to end the relationship (with the city of Seattle), not continue it by force. Both parties will be worse off financially with forced performance, and there is no offsetting benefit."

In a deposition taken in April, Sonics owner Clay Bennett testified he and his co-owners would lose between $61 million and $65 million if forced to play in Seattle for two "lame-duck" seasons. Bennett said the Sonics would make $18.8 million should the court allow the team to play in his hometown beginning this fall.

"While the city relies on the interests of the public at large, the public is not a party to the lease. As nonparties, their interests are legally irrelevant," the team's brief states.

"The great majority of the public has a yawning indifference to the Sonics' departure," the brief adds.

While attendance decreased last season to 28th in the league, the team still officially drew an average of 13,355 fans per game — 78 percent of capacity in the NBA's smallest venue.

The brief counters that the actual in-house attendance per game was 9,146 last season. The team says that 28 percent of ticket holders paid for a seat but didn't go to the game.

"In other words, nearly one-third of those who paid for a ticket did not attend," the brief states. "This is, unfortunately, compelling evidence of the level of disinterest."

The brief cited a survey taken by the polling firm Field Research in November, 2007 — just after Bennett announced he was applying to move the Sonics to Oklahoma City for the 2008-09 season. The survey said 66 percent of Seattle's residents believe it would make no difference to them if the team left or they would be "better off."

The brief, filed for Bennett's Professional Basketball Club LLC, also warned that if Pechman rules against the Sonics, she will be creating more work for her court.

"If forced to stay, the PBC may be forced to drastically alter its business methods," the team said. "There is little doubt that this would involve the court in a challenge to the team's business methods."

The team also reiterated its belief the city is trying through "forced bleeding" to push Bennett into selling to more Seattle-friendly investors — such as previously interested Microsoft Corp. Chief Executive Steve Ballmer, who is mentioned by name later in the brief.

The brief also reminded the court that the Sonics under Bennett's ownership will leave Seattle after the lease expires in 2010 anyway, since the NBA has already approved the team's move to Oklahoma City.

Take that "City of Seattle".

Some good news for us until the trial starts on Monday.

That position sounds tenable. :)

are seeking to break the final two years of their lease at KeyArena by paying the city a sum of no more than $10, which the team believes would satisfy the rental agreement with the arena.

It is actually $10 million.

That position sounds tenable. :)

If you were referring to me, I just meant it looks good in our favor, however I'll feel more confident when the trial starts and things leak out of the courtroom.

Nah, I just meant in general that I felt those statements directly and effectively addressed the pertinent legal issues. I can't wait for this drama to be over!

ESPN.com covered the same AP article, however they have a poll to vote when or if you think the Sonics will play in OKC. The Seattle people are trying to skew it in their favor. Let's go rock the vote as well.......


ESPN - Sonics say both sides worse off if they're forced to stay - NBA (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3438868&POLL341=80000000000000)

Voted!

Rock the vote, I voted 2008 of course - because that is what will happen.

HOTROD, what's the latest on the street. I know we read the wires, but whats the mood like, etc. You haven't commented in quite awhile.

I'd be willing to place money on the fact that it's the younger crowd on this forum who is screaming for a new modern cosmo while the older crowd wants to still play cowboys and indians.If all you youngsters want OKC to be more modern and cosmo, then get to it. What's stopping you?

Trial starts today. Glad this thing is almost over.

Me too, although it's the Schultz lawsuit I REALLY want to be over. This one is just about "when", and I've waited a long time for a team and would prefer not to wait any longer, but can deal with it. It's the suit over ownership that I wish we could get past.

No doubt, Betts. I just can't imagine Shultz winning but stranger things have happened, I guess......but even then, that decision would have to survive appeals.

But I'm with you, even if this thing continues to drag on, this will be a lot easier to stomach if we get past the Shultz suit.

Agreed. At least that suit has a decreased chance of succeeding compared to this one.

So does anyone actually think Shultz has a chance to rescende the sale?

He doesn't want to rescind the sale, actually. That would require him taking back the team and coughing up the huge profit he made on the sale back to PBC. What he wants the court to do is make a "constructive trust" which would force the sale of the Sonics from PBC to a buyer in Seattle...which is pretty ridiculous. I don't think he has a chance in hell of getting that remedy, but I think he has a good shot at delaying this crap more...

Here's a minute-by-minute blog of the trial.

Minute-by-minute: Day 1 at Seattle vs. Sonics trial | Special Report | KING5.com | News for Seattle, Washington (http://www.king5.com/specialreport/stories/NW_061608SSB_mon_sonics_trial_minute_by_minute_TP. 2dbc7f52.html)

He doesn't want to rescind the sale, actually. That would require him taking back the team and coughing up the huge profit he made on the sale back to PBC. What he wants the court to do is make a "constructive trust" which would force the sale of the Sonics from PBC to a buyer in Seattle...which is pretty ridiculous. I don't think he has a chance in hell of getting that remedy, but I think he has a good shot at delaying this crap more...

I highly doubt a court would even grant a preliminary injunction to prevent the Sonics from moving in that case.

From the PI:

PBC attorney Brad Keller revealed damning evidence, exposing a meeting between former Sonics president Wally Walker, Microsoft mogul Steve Baller and former senator Slade Gorton in the winter of 2007 to “increase the pain of staying” for Bennett and force him to sell the team to a group led by Ballmer.

In a meeting Keller tabbed “THE PATH FORWARD,” he said Baller and Gorton met at Walker’s house and 1
1) “increase the pain of staying” (financial and reputation).
2) Decide if there is a buyer (for the team)

Keller said on Dec. 12, 2007, the group wanted to push litigation to force the Sonics to stay and forcing bleeding of about $20 million per year. He also said the city was on board with the “bleed them until they sell” philosophy.”

Keller then revealed a Wally Walker email to billionaire John Stanton on July 24, 2007

“I met with the city today and felt better about my message of fighting Clay’s attempt to leave. Make it too expensive and too litigious for him. I get the impression that they were in total agreement and that they (administration) understood the value of buying more time.”

I highly doubt a court would even grant a preliminary injunction to prevent the Sonics from moving in that case.

I agree, esp. if PBC wins this first suit. Doesn't Judge Pechman have both cases on her docket now? Or did i make that up...

From the PI:

PBC attorney Brad Keller revealed damning evidence, exposing a meeting between former Sonics president Wally Walker, Microsoft mogul Steve Baller and former senator Slade Gorton in the winter of 2007 to “increase the pain of staying” for Bennett and force him to sell the team to a group led by Ballmer.

In a meeting Keller tabbed “THE PATH FORWARD,” he said Baller and Gorton met at Walker’s house and 1
1) “increase the pain of staying” (financial and reputation).
2) Decide if there is a buyer (for the team)

Keller said on Dec. 12, 2007, the group wanted to push litigation to force the Sonics to stay and forcing bleeding of about $20 million per year. He also said the city was on board with the “bleed them until they sell” philosophy.”

Keller then revealed a Wally Walker email to billionaire John Stanton on July 24, 2007

“I met with the city today and felt better about my message of fighting Clay’s attempt to leave. Make it too expensive and too litigious for him. I get the impression that they were in total agreement and that they (administration) understood the value of buying more time.”


That seems pretty damning to me. I don't know though I am just a peon.

That is HUGE! I know PBC's attorneys have mentioned that and are to assert an unclean hands argument, but that's terrific to actually see what the evidence is!

That seems pretty damning to me. I don't know though I am just a peon.

In other words...

http://www.pa.msu.edu/~yang/NuclearBomb.jpg

11:45 a.m. - Nickels testifies that he supported a potential sale to the Ballmer/Griffin ownership group, but did not work toward it. Now a video is being shown in earlier testimony in which he indicates he was working toward that.

11:37 a.m. - Defense exhibit 527 presented, which is a letter signed by Mayor Nickels and the Seattle City Council to Gov. Christine Gregoire on April 17, 2006. The letter shows that the mayor and council telling the governor that a new facility should not be built outside Seattle. Nickels agreed that even as PBC was lobbying for a new arena, the mayor and council did not change that stance.

The Sonics lawyers really seem to be blowing some big holes in the cities case today....

11:58 a.m. - Nickels admits under questioning that the last two Sonics games he went to were a playoff game and when Gus Williams' jersey was retired about seven or eight years ago. Keller then goes into a string of questions about the Mayor's efforts to attact business to Seattle and whether any potential businesses said an NBA team was an important reason for coming, to which the mayor basically said no. When asked if Seattle would still be a first class city without the Sonics, the mayor said yes.

11:55 a.m. - Keller presenting evidence showing former Sonics President Wally Walker meeting in July 2007 with a member of Nickels' administration. Keller says it's in regards to a potential plan in making things financially difficult for the PBC through litigation. Nickels admits that when the City hired law firm K&L Gates, it was setting aside $1 million for the case. But, Nickels said there was no agreement with Walker to make the PBC financially bleed through litigation. Nickels says he was just trying to uphold the lease.

Sure seems like it. Nickels says he wasn't in on the "bleed'em" plan, but how could he NOT be aware of it?

That is HUGE! I know PBC's attorneys have mentioned that and are to assert an unclean hands argument, but that's terrific to actually see what the evidence is!

The PBC attorneys have been a lot more professional about this case re: not trying the thing in the newspapers. Smart move to hold things back 'til trial.

Exactly. It was tough reading all the articles and hubbub about the PBC emails, and have them not defend themselves publicly. You had to know the day of defense would come. Mr. Keller, by these accounts, is having a good morning.

So far, so good. GO SONICS!!! Don't let that be the only time I get to say that!

Nickels said there was no agreement with Walker to make the PBC financially bleed through litigation.

I'm sure there was no legal, written agreement but I'm also pretty sure there was a handshake and a wink agreement to do such.

I thought I read somewhere today that should the Sonics win and break their lease, Shultz would have to put money down to stop their move. What I read was that Shultz would have to put a money bond on any potential losses that the Sonics might amass if they are forced to stay by an injunction. Does anyone know if this is true? How likely would Shultz be to put say $50 million down to show his 'commitment'?

I thought I read somewhere today that should the Sonics win and break their lease, Shultz would have to put money down to stop their move. What I read was that Shultz would have to put a money bond on any potential losses that the Sonics might amass if they are forced to stay by an injunction. Does anyone know if this is true? How likely would Shultz be to put say $50 million down to show his 'commitment'?

Generally, and this is in Oklahoma, yes, you have to place a monetary bond with the court that supposedly will cover losses, etc., if the moving party loses.

(moving as in made the motion in court, not as in moving from Seattle to OKC. :))

3:51 p.m. - Singh says when KeyArena was upgraded and reopened in 1995, it got lots of praise from the Sonics and others. The City wants to present the video of NBA Commissioner David Stern in a 1995 interview praising KeyArena. The defense objects as heresay. Judge Pechman asks why she needs to see it since Stern is not here to respond -- it's basically a relevancy question. The interview was done by Mitch Levy of KJR Sports Radio, who was not allowed to be a witness in the trial. The objection is sustained and the video is not played.


It sounds like our lawyers are doing well in court today.

I knew they had to have some sort of Ace up there sleeve. They're silence in the media was just too... thought provoking.

Folks, there will be alot of ups and downs in this case. As far as PBC's accusations about fan indifference in Seattle, it has been reported that anywhere between 3-5K Sonics fans showed up for the rally oustside the courthouse this afternoon. This dispite the traffic nightmare and gridlock that is downtown Seattle. I'll be interested to see if The Oklahoman finds space to communicate this to all of you tomorrow.

PBC Owners to testify tomorrow. Should be interesting.

Saw pics of the crowd on the news and it didn't look impressive at all

Didn't they only hand out 15 of the 44 available passes to the trial for average joes?...That's pretty sad

King 5 reported around 700.

This is a funny line from the Seattle Times

*The group was hoping to attract a few hundred fans, however, one observer said the number could reach 1,000.*

Nice spin on that one...A city of 3 million and they expected a few hundred?

:congrats:

In case this has not already been mentioned, Seattle's King5TV is carrying an on-going-as-the-trial-develops thread or blog, whichever, which isn't half bad ... you may need to register to see it, I don't know (since I'm registered) ..

Link: Minute-by-minute: Day 1 at Seattle vs. Sonics trial | Special Report | KING5.com | News for Seattle, Washington (http://www.king5.com/specialreport/stories/NW_061608SSB_mon_sonics_trial_minute_by_minute_TP. 2dbc7f52.html)

Ted Streuli's Hot Topic Journal Record blog was supposed to be doing something similar but today that didn't happen. Maybe tomorrow.

Link: The Journal Record’s Hot Topic — Blogging what’s on the top of your mind and tip of your tongue (http://blogs.journalrecord.com/hottopic/)

I'm not aware that the Oklahoman has done or attempted to do anything similar, but maybe that will change (I hope).

Something of a recap is also available at the Seattle Times website.
Link: Local News | Nickels said he's attended two Sonics games in the last 10 years. | Seattle Times Newspaper (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008000147_sonitrial16web.html)