Just for fun I have started drinking the Seattle kool-aide on the Seattle Times web site. I started agreeing with them on everything and they are eating it up like sugar coated corn flakes. You guys should try it. It is hard to deny reality but it is really fun to watch them get their hopes built up only to see it all come crashing down Thursday.

I think the Sonics win this case. Keller had a good line in his closing argument about the city using the lease as a weapon to oppress and not a shield to protect the tax payers. The city clearly is using the lease as part of the plan to get to the team sold to local owners.

Kerry can I assume you are OKC2008?

Kerry can I assume you are OKC2008?

Kerry, if I were you I wouldn't tell either way. There are all kinds of spy's lurking.

As for the Sonics, there were mistakes made on both sides of this story, but this Judge seems to be pretty level headed.

Two key facts she seem to be looking at:

1)The two sides don't get along, they might be back in court to settle problems.

2)No one seems to win if they stay. (Continued loses by both the City and PBC)

IMO, she will allow the Sonics to move, and will put a limit on how much the will have to pay during the next stage. She may even make both sides pay their own legal bills.

Worthy Cook - yes I am OKC2008. I am not worried about spies Saberman. I have spent the last 10 months on that web site defending the OKC position and then switched my stance on everything yesterday after closing arguments and not a single person has questioned the switch. They seem to think I am somehow enlightened now. I just want to give them as much confidence as I can going in to 3:59 PM Thursday and then watch them all go bananas after 4PM.

The only thing I am worried about from an OKC perspective is this idea that the case would set a precedent that any team can move whenever they find a more profitable situation. Now, that's what any other business can do, just about, but the court may not want to set such a precedent and I really don't even think the NBA would want it read that way.

Of course, the other precedent would be that a lease can force you to operate your business in a specific location, even if that means significant losses. IMO, that's scarier, but it just depends on how much she buys into the idea that the Sonics mean so much to the area that it shouldn't leave two years early. I think that she can play both sides in this situation and say "yes, the Sonics do provide an intangible benefit, but we know they are leaving in just two years and that fact alone greatly mitigates the intangible benefit, since that benefit is greatly reliant on the perception that the organization is synonymous with the community for the long term".

Yeah I have been on there since last may. If you see richardlee06 lurking around thats me. I usually have good conversations and see both sides of the story. Unfortunately those are few and far between because they see I am from OK and therefore everything I say is void.

BTW the ruling comes out Wednesday, not Thursday, at 6pm OKC time. I dunno how its going to go though, like I said in a previous post, I felt great up until the closing arguements. I don't know what, they just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Just for fun I have started drinking the Seattle kool-aide on the Seattle Times web site. I started agreeing with them on everything and they are eating it up like sugar coated corn flakes. You guys should try it. It is hard to deny reality but it is really fun to watch them get their hopes built up only to see it all come crashing down Thursday.

I think the Sonics win this case. Keller had a good line in his closing argument about the city using the lease as a weapon to oppress and not a shield to protect the tax payers. The city clearly is using the lease as part of the plan to get to the team sold to local owners.


you're my hero. :congrats:

The only thing I am worried about from an OKC perspective is this idea that the case would set a precedent that any team can move whenever they find a more profitable situation. Now, that's what any other business can do, just about, but the court may not want to set such a precedent and I really don't even think the NBA would want it read that way.

Of course, the other precedent would be that a lease can force you to operate your business in a specific location, even if that means significant losses. IMO, that's scarier, but it just depends on how much she buys into the idea that the Sonics mean so much to the area that it shouldn't leave two years early. I think that she can play both sides in this situation and say "yes, the Sonics do provide an intangible benefit, but we know they are leaving in just two years and that fact alone greatly mitigates the intangible benefit, since that benefit is greatly reliant on the perception that the organization is synonymous with the community for the long term".


Worthy Cook - yes I am OKC2008. I am not worried about spies Saberman. I have spent the last 10 months on that web site defending the OKC position and then switched my stance on everything yesterday after closing arguments and not a single person has questioned the switch. They seem to think I am somehow enlightened now. I just want to give them as much confidence as I can going in to 3:59 PM Thursday and then watch them all go bananas after 4PM.

Kerry, I've been reading your quote for many months over there, love the way you get the going, like throwing gas on a fire, it drives them crazy.


BDP, I don't think this will set a precedent for sports teams over all. There will be to many points involved in the decision, it would make it hard from any other team to match the situation as it has unfolded in Seattle. They would't be able to pick certain situations and use them as grounds to break their lease.

Just my though.

Let's not forget too, that the Grizzlies recently left Vancouver with four years left on their lease. The city didn't play hardball with them. So, precedent has already been set, and this is a much more toxic situation, with a shorter lease.

Kerry, I've been reading your quote for many months over there, love the way you get the going, like throwing gas on a fire, it drives them crazy.


I've tried my reverse psychology bit and it didn't work. Pretending to be on their side doesn't work. They still stabbed me in the back. Which told me a lot about who goes on those forums.

I've tried my reverse psychology bit and it didn't work. Pretending to be on their side doesn't work.

That is because you tried it to soon. You probably started with the reverse psyc stuff and then slowly tried to switch sides. Something along the lines of I'll agree with you 100% this week, 90% next week, and so on. All the time probably hoping you can get a small percentage of them to take the trip with you.

I am not doing that. I am taking them where they want to go. The problem is I am not drving the bus. The judge is. We are going where ever she is going. Imagine as a child your parents told you they were taking you to Disneyland. The whole trip they keep telling you about the rides, shows, and food. Your hopes just keep getting higher and higher and higher and then when you pull into the parking lot you are at Wally World and it is closed 2 weeks for repairs (alla Vacation).

If I can leave Krazy, Sportsayer, and the others just one step short of buying a bb gun and taking security guards hostage then it will be mission accomplished.

Link to the forum?

The Seattle Times: View Forum - Sonics (http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=44)

Check logic and comon sense at the door. Be careful. You need a thick skin if you are going to engage in any "debate". It is kind of like groundhog day over there. They believe quasi-fact A on Monday, you disprove it on Tuesday, and on Wednesday they believe quasi-fact A again.

OMFG, it's awful.

OMFG, it's awful.

Yeah, I used to read posts over there, but it takes a strong stomach. It's been months and months since I looked at it, and I don't miss it.

It's just so wrong, there's not even anywhere to start.

Those Seattle fans are so evil. They support their team but the city doesn't give a sh*t. Do you blame them?

There are some very angry people in that forum.

I think that a lot of them are operating under the strange, but observable belief/phenomenon of some message board posters (most of whom seem to be about fifteen, either in age or maturity level) that if you post it often enough and "loud" enough, it will come true.

I think that a lot of them are operating under the strange, but observable belief/phenomenon of some message board posters (most of whom seem to be about fifteen, either in age or maturity level) that if you post it often enough and "loud" enough, it will come true.

I want $1 million. I want $1 million. I want $1 million.

It isn't working. Let me try yelling it.


I want $1 million! I want $1 million! I want $1 million!

Nope, nothing yet.

Kerry, Kerry,

You're doing it all wrong. Doncha know that you have to scream it aloud in all caps and throw in at least one modified curse word in order for it to come true?

I WANT 1 MILLION @#$*&ING DOLLARS! I WANT 1 MILLION @#$&ING DOLLARS!
I WANT 1 MILLION @#$*&ING DOLLARS! I WANT 1 MILLION @#$&ING DOLLARS!
I WANT 1 MILLION @#$*&ING DOLLARS! I WANT 1 MILLION @#$&ING DOLLARS!
I WANT 1 MILLION @#$*&ING DOLLARS! I WANT 1 MILLION @#$&ING DOLLARS!

....well, darn. Guess that doesn't work, either. Guess those folks will have to get back to reality someday. Maybe next Wednesday at 4pm PST.

If you really want people to give you millions of dollars, try yelling this:

I'M CLAY BENNETT! I'M CLAY BENNETT! I'M CLAY BENNETT!

Still feeling the sting of the March vote on the Ford Center ehhhh born? Let it go already your side LOST. Maybe you and David Glover could start a support group?

If you guys think stillborn and DG are having a hard time getting over the March vote just wait until this Wednesday around 4PM PST. There are going to be some POed fans in Seattle.

Worthy Cook - yes I am OKC2008. I am not worried about spies Saberman. I have spent the last 10 months on that web site defending the OKC position and then switched my stance on everything yesterday after closing arguments and not a single person has questioned the switch. They seem to think I am somehow enlightened now. I just want to give them as much confidence as I can going in to 3:59 PM Thursday and then watch them all go bananas after 4PM.

I think you got busted Kerry, I found this little tidbit.

Seattle Times Forum
Thread: ESPN's Lester Munson gives updated opinion

tahoelagna1

Posts: 35
Location: San Francisco, CA

[Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:50 pm] Reply
OKC2008...or do you prefer Kerry? Your comeuppance will be arriving shortly after 4pm PST next Wednesday.

Seattle fans, privy yourself to the doleful mind of our friend OKC2008/Kerry:

http://www.okctalk.com/okc-metro-area-talk/12725-more-news-sonics-lawsuit-25.html


The Seattle Times: View topic - ESPN's Lester Munson gives updated opinion (http://forums.seattletimes.nwsource.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=135677&start=10&sid=750884b641c4e00d66d029e7d5d3b524)

After reading a recent PI article I'm wondering if it would actually be better for us Okies if the city wins this one

That would almost assure that Stern and the NBA would step in and cut a deal with the city leaving the name and history and guaranteeing a future team as soon as they have an arena deal in place...I know he hates Seattle right now but I doubt he can stomach two more years of bad PR

This scenario works out much better for us than the series of inevitable appeals and injuctions delaying the move...Losing this might just be the best chance for us to be watching the Sonics in the Ford this year

It's funny how that poster brings up the "maturity" coming out of OKC relative to the Seattle forums. It seems like there are a lot more "mature" posts here discussing the legal aspects of the case than anything over there. Most of their postings, just like Seattle's litigation, is motivated by spite and resentment towards ownership than any real love for the Sonics. They just want Bennett to bleed for this is all.

Granted, the maturity level does drop here and there when addressing those forums and there is a lot of worthless crap posted from both cities in the newsok comments. Hopefully, we can keep this place a little more sane and ignore all the BS as much as possible.

After reading a recent PI article I'm wondering if it would actually be better for us Okies if the city wins this one

That would almost assure that Stern and the NBA would step in and cut a deal with the city leaving the name and history and guaranteeing a future team as soon as they have an arena deal in place...I know he hates Seattle right now but I doubt he can stomach two more years of bad PR

This scenario works out much better for us than the series of inevitable appeals and injuctions delaying the move...Losing this might just be the best chance for us to be watching the Sonics in the Ford this year

I was prepared for the Sonics to lose this case, and I'm almost sad that we were given a bit of hope. I don't really know if Stern would step in and cut a deal in Seattle. That almost seems like a bit too much to hope for. I really don't mind waiting for the team two years, though. I'd rather they were here, and I know the ownership would rather they were here, but as long as Bennett et al retain ownership of the team, I'm fine with whatever.

Well, I'm cautiously optimistic for a favorable PBC decision on Wednesday, July 2, at 6:00 p.m. CST.

In addition to other more substantial reasons (explained in HornetsCentral.com & SonicsBeat.com Forums :: Index (http://www.hornetscentral.com/forum/index.php) in a thread there), there's another reason, which I'm inclined to take as providential ... July 2 is my birthday! What a birthday present ... Hoo Ahh! :dizzy: :tiphat: :congrats: :kicking: :Smiley077

Doesn't that just about cinch it?

of course the jig is up. okie trolls never get it. sorry to say okc2008 case law trumps you

... July 2 is my birthday! What a birthday present ... Hoo Ahh! :dizzy: :tiphat: :congrats: :kicking: :Smiley077

woah, mine is the 1st!

cancers in the house!

woah, mine is the 1st!

cancers in the house!
While I was buying some groceries at Homeland this afternoon, the cashier told me that TUESDAY was July 2 ... and that made me worried, sufficiently so that I checked my calendar when returning home. The gods were good to me. Wednesday is the 2nd! :dizzy: What would be a good (accurate) statement in this context for the "ides of July?":bright_id

I think you got busted Kerry, I found this little tidbit.

I sware the only person I told was Slade Gorton.

No problem. There are probably no less than 5 posts on here identifying me as OKC2008. It is not a national secret. I wanted to use Kerry on Seattle Time forum but it was already being used. Oh well.

Kerry....its swear...

Kerry....its swear...

Not in Okie lexicon. lol

Thanks Sea-Town-Sonics. I'll get it right next time, but just to help me out I am going to need you to go through my other 1000+ posts and check them for spelling also. It would be easiest for me if you could just make a list of the most common misspelled words and post it for me.

To all of the others on here, I just wanted to let you know this is how rich people live. Many of you common folk use MS Word or some other software to check your spelling. I have my own personal Seattleite to check mine for me.

Must be nice to know someones got you back.

woah, mine is the 1st!

cancers in the house!

Oh crap. For a second I thought you meant you had cancer.

If you really want people to give you millions of dollars, try yelling this:

I'M CLAY BENNETT! I'M CLAY BENNETT! I'M CLAY BENNETT!

cute :rolleyes:

It probably works better if you actually are Clay Bennett, but it would never hurt to try.

Probably doesn't make any difference but Clay and his group monitor the site.

that seems fair, we monitor their litigation
8^)

They monitor the site? Wow. I figured they probably read it, but monitor the site... well, that's a lot more ominous, don't you think?

"Monitor the site." You just kind of want to pitch your voice a half-octave lower when you say it. "They monitor the site."

Does Bennett do that himself, or do you suppose he has some kind of Mini-me guy who takes care of that stuff?

They monitor the site? Wow. I figured they probably read it, but monitor the site... well, that's a lot more ominous, don't you think?

"Monitor the site." You just kind of want to pitch your voice a half-octave lower when you say it. "They monitor the site."

Does Bennett do that himself, or do you suppose he has some kind of Mini-me guy who takes care of that stuff?

Mini-me guy? Not sure what that is?

I would guess that what is said about the Sonics would be important when thinking about coming to OKC. Just a guess.

Wow I never realized there was this much interest in having the sonics come here pretty cool I must say. After reading everything well thats a lie after reading the first couple of pages and the last page (Hey I would be here all nite reading if i read every page) I have to side with the feeling that three just isnt enough evidence that the bennet group bought the team under false pretense. The went through all the attempts to secure a deal with the city. As for that starbucks dude well I attempted to stage a boycotto of starbucks but I couldnt even get my wife to stop drinking there coffee.

They monitor the site? Wow. I figured they probably read it, but monitor the site... well, that's a lot more ominous, don't you think?

No one expects the Okie Inquisition!

*sings and does the "Inquisition" dance*



I'd imagine that if there's anything that anybody gleans from "monitoring" this site, is that a) there are a lot of argumentative people with an overdeveloped sense of their opinion's value and b) Oh GAWD the Smell likes pie. A LOT.


In other words...They're all going to laugh at you.


Then they'll bring me pie.

Probably doesn't make any difference but Clay and his group monitor the site.

Should we be billing them? Maybe Pete can get the hours by their IP. Of course, 1 hour minimum every time they visit.


sorry to say okc2008 case law trumps you

Well, that should be easy then. Can you site the relevant rulings and corresponding language? Should be very helpful.

Wow I never realized there was this much interest in having the sonics come here pretty cool I must say. After reading everything well thats a lie after reading the first couple of pages and the last page (Hey I would be here all nite reading if i read every page) I have to side with the feeling that three just isnt enough evidence that the bennet group bought the team under false pretense. The went through all the attempts to secure a deal with the city. As for that starbucks dude well I attempted to stage a boycotto of starbucks but I couldnt even get my wife to stop drinking there coffee.

That stuff is mostly not relevant in the Seattle v. PBC case.

The question which will be answered, in short is whether the "specific performance" clause (a clause which says that the only way the lease can be completed is by the Sonics playing their home games at the Key) is enforceable.

The court, before answering that question will have to decide whether the city has the ability to use the court's powers in equity (i.e., the court's ability to tell someone to do something or not to do something) to enforce this sort of agreement. In doing so, the court will address the city of Seattle's "clean hands" or lack thereof. The rule being that a court won't use its equitable powers to aid a party who lacks clean hands -- meaning that if the city has helped contribute to the current bad situation, they won't get to use the court's powers to get them out of it.

Also, in answering the specific performance question is whether cash-money damages could possibly compensate the city for its loss of the team. The reason for that is that a court will not use its equitable powers (ordering specific performance) where cash-money damages would otherwise be proper. That's why you saw all of the dueling economic experts.

I offer no conclusions here or predictions (because I already have). I just thought I'd clear up the issues for you.

Should we be billing them? Maybe Pete can get the hours by their IP. Of course, 1 hour minimum every time they visit.



Well, that should be easy then. Can you site the relevant rulings and corresponding language? Should be very helpful.

Too bad there isn't a tongue in cheek emoticon. My humor doesn't precede me.

Wow I never realized there was this much interest in having the sonics come here

Seriously??

Judgemen day. 6 P.M.

Yeah. I wish I were more hopeful about the outcome. I think there's a far better chance the Sonics' win than I did two weeks ago, but I still can't feel optimistic. Hope I'm wrong!

However, even this losing this trial doesn't mean the Sonics will be in Seattle for two years. If Schultz's lawsuit goes away, which it should, I look for the city of Seattle to settle. At that point, they only have something to lose, although it will be trickier with their brand new assessment of almost $200 million in intangible benefits to having the team. They could have paid for a $500 million arena in three years if they really believed that made up figure.

The only outcome that would surprise me is a settlement. I can make arguments for either party being victorious, but I think the personalities, and the politicos of the NW needing votes in the future, make a settlement very unlikely.

The only outcome that would surprise me is a settlement. I can make arguments for either party being victorious, but I think the personalities, and the politicos of the NW needing votes in the future, make a settlement very unlikely.

I feel about this way. NO way settlement, now, or that would have come in the Friday-Thursday trial break.

The only outcome that would surprise me is a settlement. I can make arguments for either party being victorious, but I think the personalities, and the politicos of the NW needing votes in the future, make a settlement very unlikely.

hope you are suprised

You may officially color me me as surprised as the day my spouse walked into my office with a dozen red roses ... her way of telling me, as I had told her with roses a few years prior, "another day, another a"

The press conference will be interesting, but yeah buddy, I must concede I was taken by surprise this time.

another day, another a


What does this mean?

What does this mean?

long long ago, in a lifetime far far away, my spouse and I had been at odds over the name for our second child, gender unknown at the time. She was committed to a name that began with A, irrespective of the child's gender. I was on board for a lad's name, but I was, well, less than committed to the letter A if we had another lass.

When I realized how important it was to her (I am dense, but somewhat trainable), I sent a dozen roses to her at work. The card said simply 'another day, another A.' She was all smiles later as she related her day and the assumption by many this was a bit over the top for a course grade.

Fast forward a few years ...
She learns we're to be blessed with our third child. She walks into my office smiling, carrying a dozen roses, and announces to staff and friends who admire the flowers that these roses are not from me, they are for me.

Our eyes met. No further explanation was necessary, at least between us. We did finally calm our combined laughter and merriment in order to quell the confusion of those around us.

Flowers can lead to a 4th child. Those things should come with a warning label.

Good story by the way. You should post it on Lovingyou.com: Love, Romance and Relationship Resources (http://www.lovingyou.com)

It is clean website for all things romance.