Sounds like a good MAPS 4 Project to me.

Sounds like a good MAPS 4 Project to me.

First, doesn't the article say the state is looking to help fund it and then turn it over? And wouldn't using MAPS 4 funds delay movement on AICC 6 to 7 more years? That doesn't seem like a good plan.

The list literally begins with the Atoka Confederate Cemetery. It is a long list:

OHS Museums & Historic Sites (http://www.okhistory.org/sites/index)

Since this is OKC Talk, I guess I should apologize for referring to Confederates as hicks...

What you should do is get your facts straight. While the State may own the sites listed, many of them receive $0 in state funding. Due to budget cuts over the past 20 years, many of them (including the ONLY one in OKC) have been turned over to local groups to operate. I would hardly refer to Henry Overholser as a hick. Sequoyah a hick? Have you even been to any of the sites?

First, doesn't the article say the state is looking to help fund it and then turn it over? And wouldn't using MAPS 4 funds delay movement on AICC 6 to 7 more years? That doesn't seem like a good plan.

The money to secure the site probably pales in comparison to the cost of actually operating it, which why the State is saying they will finish it but someone else has to own and operate it.

What you should do is get your facts straight. While the State may own the sites listed, many of them receive $0 in state funding. Due to budget cuts over the past 20 years, many of them (including the ONLY one in OKC) have been turned over to local groups to operate. I would hardly refer to Henry Overholser as a hick. Sequoyah a hick? Have you even been to any of the sites?

Congrats on finding a few palatable ones to mention. Most are not. My point is not to argue what is good culture with you or any other Internet poster. I would actually argue that rural white is an important culture to include.

The point is whether the state should include something new in its mission of cultural outreach. It already does this. Just as you said that due to budget cuts the state runs many of these with local partnerships - we just had a $60 million local partnership here that they weren't interested in.

Anyone who disagrees at this point is either a hypocrite or a hypocrite apologist. The state "is involved in running" (just so we're all on the same page) a confederate cemetery as a cultural attraction, and yet conservatives in this state look at this situation and ask whether the state has a role in promoting culture. The irony is two-part: 1, everyone irrespective of politics used to agree that the public sector does things; and 2, OKC is a bastion of support for the OKGOP whose sole purpose in life is to harm OKC. Metro Republicans need to start asking their candidates whether they will support the city council's objectives, or fight them (mostly moderate conservatives) over sheer ideological purism.

If you love OKC, you shouldn't be an apologist for politics that are fundamentally anti-OKC. This shouldn't be political, you can easily put your vote toward a pro-OKC conservative if you're into that sort of thing.

Come on, Spartan. That totally crosses the line.

Have you ever seen the politics forum on here? lol

First, doesn't the article say the state is looking to help fund it and then turn it over? And wouldn't using MAPS 4 funds delay movement on AICC 6 to 7 more years? That doesn't seem like a good plan.

I am merely referring back toy the previous statement of the City of OKC taking it over. How else would the city fund it? Maps 3 is over next year. I don't see anything happening any faster that all

Congrats on finding a few palatable ones to mention. Most are not. My point is not to argue what is good culture with you or any other Internet poster. I would actually argue that rural white is an important culture to include.

The point is whether the state should include something new in its mission of cultural outreach. It already does this. Just as you said that due to budget cuts the state runs many of these with local partnerships - we just had a $60 million local partnership here that they weren't interested in.

Anyone who disagrees at this point is either a hypocrite or a hypocrite apologist. The state "is involved in running" (just so we're all on the same page) a confederate cemetery as a cultural attraction, and yet conservatives in this state look at this situation and ask whether the state has a role in promoting culture. The irony is two-part: 1, everyone irrespective of politics used to agree that the public sector does things; and 2, OKC is a bastion of support for the OKGOP whose sole purpose in life is to harm OKC. Metro Republicans need to start asking their candidates whether they will support the city council's objectives, or fight them (mostly moderate conservatives) over sheer ideological purism.

If you love OKC, you shouldn't be an apologist for politics that are fundamentally anti-OKC. This shouldn't be political, you can easily put your vote toward a pro-OKC conservative if you're into that sort of thing.

You didn't answer my last question. How many of the sites listed on your link have you visited? To quote you, "...most are not (palatable)...". Not palatable in what way? Your gripe seems to be with one in particular that doesn't fit your views, yet you tar most if not all of the other sites with the same brush you used on Atoka.

Have you ever seen the politics forum on here? lol

No, I haven't. And I won't. I assume it's like every other politics forum and mostly involves the same dozen people sniping at each other's extreme views and generally being ****ty to one another and to the world in general. There is a reason politics has its own board, and there is a reason posts there don't show up in "latest posts" searches; most of the posters here would prefer not waste their time and energy on it.

That forum in no way represents the prevailing sentiments of posters on this board, and if you think it does you have been spending too much time there and have allowed your mind to be poisoned. I'm going to restate myself: you suggesting in your previous post that this board is essentially populated with people who are protective of Confederate values is Insulting, over the line and completely offensive.

I would imagine that the cultural center might actually address the Native American tribal members who participated in the civil war on both sides. It is easy to look at these things in an extreme view of judgement, but we did not live back then. There are bad guys on both sides. Most were just doing what they thought was best for their reality.

Truth be told, If OKCTalkers on Facebook are any indication, I think most people would prefer living under Articles of Confederation. But I digress and back to thecAICCM.

If the State is willing to fund completion then why wouldn't the City want to take it over? We have been told repeatedly that this place will generate over $270,000 a day (A DAY) in economic impact. OKC shoud be jumping all over this - if they believe that number.

In an earlier interview with The Journal Record, Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said the state dropped the ball several times on funding the museum.

If state officials continue to balk, Cornett told the newspaper, “I think that at some point, the city should exercise its claw-back (clause) and take the land back.

“You would like to think that someday, somehow, something that resembles an American Indian Cultural Center would take place there,” Cornett said. “But there wouldn’t be any guarantees and we don’t feel that we would be tied to that mission.”

Is this cause for concern?
The only way to get the matching funds from the private sector is to make it a cultural museum.

You didn't answer my last question. How many of the sites listed on your link have you visited? To quote you, "...most are not (palatable)...". Not palatable in what way? Your gripe seems to be with one in particular that doesn't fit your views, yet you tar most if not all of the other sites with the same brush you used on Atoka.


The reason we aren't reconciling our terms is bc you're trying to take this away from the AICC, whereas that's all I'm talking about. There is politics that factored into the lack of support for this project, specifically some "Okie politics" that happened. I am not here to debate Okie politics, rather than just point out that exists and is the deciding factor in this situation.

I am not here to make people feel bad for Okie politics, I just wish we could get past self-denial about its existence. Not only do Sally Kerns run our state, but they are elected by OKC ITSELF to do so, and this is what they do.

Commence AICC (and state support for metros) disaster...stop trying to square this circle to make us feel better about our politics. That's a pill that, if you like OKC and want it to thrive, you just can't swallow no matter what.

Spartan, you do realize the plan now appears to be to finish the place but hand ownership back to the City.

This sounds promising and makes a lot of sense:

Plan unveiled to finish funding of American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/plan-unveiled-to-finish-funding-of-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum-in-oklahoma-city/article/5418097)


State House Speaker Jeff Hickman unveiled a plan Monday to finally finish the long-delayed American Indian Cultural Center and Museum along the Oklahoma River in Oklahoma City.

Hickman said the state could provide another $25 million through a bond issue, to be paired with matching funds, to complete the project along Interstates 35 and 40.

The state already pays nearly $2 million a year on upkeep, salaries, insurance and other expenses at the center. Going forward, that money will be used instead to pay for an additional $25 million in bonds, so essentially the yearly state expenditure on the project would not grow. The authority that will run the museum will pick up the yearly operational costs.

Oklahoma City has pledged to provide $9 million in matching funds, and project proponents have said they have a total of $40 million pledge to match a state expenditure.

This article says the bond plan also involves signing over ownership and financial responsibility to the City of OKC:

OK Speaker To File Legislation That Could Give Native American C - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/29035612/ok-speaker-to-file-legislation-that-could-give-native-american-cultural-center-to-okc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)

Skeptically hopeful. Getting the House to sign off for (gasp) bonds seems iffy. But if it gets it off high center and as a bonus gets the state's claws out of it, then c'mon okc, take back your dirt and all the assorted prizes that go with it!

Please please please please please...

A good article by the Tulsa World:

Plans unveiled to finish American Indian center in Oklahoma City - Tulsa World: Capitol Report (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/plans-unveiled-to-finish-american-indian-center-in-oklahoma-city/article_84bac710-9021-5f23-a993-9394bff693ae.html)

Here is the JR article:

Bill to finish AICCM, transfer land to OKC expected Tuesday
By: Dale Denwalt May 11, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – After almost three decades of political wrangling, promises and millions of dollars that have left only the husk of a half-finished building, the people in charge of the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum may have a solution.

A multifaceted bill, which is expected to be introduced in the Legislature on Tuesday under the name of House Speaker Jeff Hickman, would turn the AICCM over to the city of Oklahoma City, according to an outline of the plan obtained by The Journal Record.

It also provides for a $25 million construction bond.

Handing the museum to the city became an option as budget hawks in the Legislature grew tired of funding requests from the agency set up to finish construction. In April, the House filed a legal notice indicating someone might file legislation to abolish the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority and transfer all the museum’s property back to the city.

“This is the final chapter,” said Hickman, R-Fairview. “This is it.”

The bond won’t cost the state any extra money, Hickman said. About $2 million of annual operating costs would go toward paying off the new bond debt.

According to the plan, state funds would not be appropriated after June 30, 2016, to operate the museum. The state would turn over 143 acres around the museum to Oklahoma City as soon as possible for commercial development. Revenues from the development would go toward funding the museum’s operations.

As a bonus to the state, the plan requires a deal with the city that would kick back half of the museum’s revenues over $7 million, until the state has been paid $25 million. It also asks for consideration from the city in the amount of $9 million.

I wonder if Hickman is going to require that a majority of Republicans are in favor before bringing it to a vote.

About damn time.


I wonder if Hickman is going to require that a majority of Republicans are in favor before bringing it to a vote.

I'm guessing he already has those ducks in a row or he wouldn't be introducing the legislation himself.

About damn time.



I'm guessing he already has those ducks in a row or he wouldn't be introducing the legislation himself.

Surely you're not suggesting that a politician might say something that isn't entirely true.


Hickman said the legislation is the result of a House GOP Caucus request that a plan be developed to finish the facility. Hickman said he does not know if the votes are present to pass the legislation.

There are a lot of possibilities with 143 acres of land.

Surely you're not suggesting that a politician might say something that isn't entirely true.

Yeah, I might be.

I highly recommend anyone seriously interested in this plan and wants to see this project through to contact your representative ASAP.
The legislature closes May 30th, so this will probably be pushed through quickly, if at all.

Of course, if you stand on the other side, same advice. Regardless, interested parties need to be contacting their reps and senators about this project. This either needs to be taken over by OKC ASAP or it needs to be finished, no more sitting there making the rest of us wonder what could have been and eating up $2 million in yearly maintenance costs.



There are a lot of possibilities with 143 acres of land.

Definitely... Which, worst case scenario, OKC gets the land back, demolishes this, and the land could become prime real estate for anything.

Bill Crum's interview with Jim Couch about the latest proposal.

Plan unveiled to finish funding of American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City (http://m.newsok.com/video/4232949116001)

OKC city manager reacts to state plan to complete, turn over AICCM
By: Dale Denwalt May 12, 20150

OKLAHOMA CITY – Oklahoma City Manager Jim Couch gave a lukewarm response to the House of Representatives’ plan to finish the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum.

The plan, which is outlined in a 36-page bill introduced Tuesday, gives detail to how the state could hand over construction and operation to the city.

“We weren’t involved with the development of this proposal,” Couch told a group of reporters at City Hall. “We did not negotiate this. This was their plan they presented to us.”

Couch said he first learned about the plan on May 7 in a meeting with the speaker of the House of Representatives.

House Bill 2237, filed by Speaker Jeff Hickman, R-Fairview, would allow the state to sell $25 million in bonds, but also provides a framework for an agreement with the city. The agreement would have to be approved by Jan. 15.

Couch said it now falls on the City Council, staff and possibly an outside consultant to evaluate the bill.

“One of the things we need to do is determine whether the $25 million that they’re offering is enough to finish the facility properly,” he said.

Hickman has said the most recent construction estimate had fallen from $80 million, which was the figure given to lawmakers at the end of last year’s legislative session.

“Meeting with the construction company, they were able to identify an additional $5 million in items they could either defer or not do, or open without,” Hickman said.

The bill will be heard Wednesday in the Joint Committee on Appropriations and Budget.

According to the bill, the cost of operating the AICCM would be offset by revenue from the city leasing 143 acres around the building to commercial interests and money earned from admissions, event income and other enterprises. The state plans to start handing over that land as soon as possible.

Couch said running a museum is not the city’s core responsibility. Still, one of the options written into the bill allows the city to contract with a private firm to run all or part of the AICCM.

Except for money authorized in the next budget and bond service, the state would not be responsible for spending money at the AICCM after June 30, 2016.

If the museum brings in more than $7 million in a year, half of the extra revenue will be given to the state’s general fund, up to $25 million. The $7 million amount will be adjusted every five years based on the Consumer Price Index, starting in 2020.

The bill would put into statute the land’s current deed restrictions, which include a prohibition on gambling. According to the bill, ownership of the land cannot be handed over to the city until after the bonds are fully paid off. Hickman said the state still owes $54 million and pays about $5 million each year to service that debt. The new bond would cost about $2 million annually. The state can avoid spending extra money, though, because the cost of the new bond would be offset by the city taking over maintenance and operations at the AICCM.

The city has already committed to sending $9 million to the museum’s completion fund. A provision of the bill requires that expenditure to be a part of the agreement. Other nonstate contributors have promised money for the museum, and Couch said the city will have to verify if those promises will be kept.

A new trust authority is created in the legislation to replace the current oversight agency; it would have 11 members. Seven will be from federally recognized tribes located within the state. Three of those tribal members would be appointed by the governor, with two each tapped by House and Senate leadership.

The other four members of the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum Trust Authority would be from the business community. One of the two gubernatorial appointees, however, can be someone with at least three years of outstanding leadership and involvement in recognized Native American organizations and activities.

Members of the trust would be exempt from a state law that forbids public officials from holding another office.

Within five years of all the bonds being retired, the trust would be terminated.

Couch praised Hickman and his staff for working on a solution to the 3-decade-old idea, and he said he believes it’s important to finish the project.

“There’s no place else that really tells the whole story like this facility will have the opportunity to do,” he said.

Couch also commented on another museum plan introduced Monday – the $25 million bond to build the Oklahoma Museum of Popular Culture in Tulsa. The Oklahoma Historical Society would oversee OKPOP.

“I find it curious the state is willing to run a museum in Tulsa that has not even begun construction yet, but the one that’s two-thirds of the way completed in Oklahoma City, they’re not willing to run,” Couch said. “I find that curious.”

"Lukewarm" is about right. The proposal is actually fairly creative, but I have a problem with the state coming to the City with the original idea for the museum, talking the City into spending millions in the form of resources, then frittering and leaving the project twisting in the wind for years over a shift in political ideology, and THEN dropping it at the City's feet to deal with from here on out, as if any of this mess is the City's fault. Frankly the whole situation is immoral.

So, help me out with this and correct me if I am wrong. Whenever this first started, it was totally STATE driven? Most of this so far has been produced and paid for by the state. The location was picked by the state. The architect was picked by the state. Planning by the state. Most funding, by the state. Potential employees and upkeep would be by the state. Now, the state wants to hand the entirity of this to the city? So the city, after completion, would foot the bill on all upkeep, employees ect? Despite having very little say so in anything up to this point? Is that right?

^^^^^^
Pretty much sums it up.

So, help me out with this and correct me if I am wrong. Whenever this first started, it was totally STATE driven? Most of this so far has been produced and paid for by the state. The location was picked by the state. The architect was picked by the state. Planning by the state. Most funding, by the state. Potential employees and upkeep would be by the state. Now, the state wants to hand the entirity of this to the city? So the city, after completion, would foot the bill on all upkeep, employees ect? Despite having very little say so in anything up to this point? Is that right?

Yes, but... The City did provide the property.

Also, under this plan the City would keep all the revenue and would also own all the property, so that could be sold off and/or used for future development which would provide more income.

"Lukewarm" is about right. The proposal is actually fairly creative, but I have a problem with the state coming to the City with the original idea for the museum, talking the City into spending millions in the form of resources, then frittering and leaving the project twisting in the wind for years over a shift in political ideology, and THEN dropping it at the City's feet to deal with from here on out, as if any of this mess is the City's fault. Frankly the whole situation is immoral.

This is our state legislature and the tea party way....talk tough but shun any responsibility for the outcome after you have bungled it. What is worse in this case is the lack of spine our local reps to the legislature have. They are more loyal to the tea party and the republican agenda than they are to the citizens of OKC. They are passionate about being able to allow punks to have their loaded guns at kids' parks but could care less about properly providing education and arts.

I think the completion of the museum and the ability to market the considerable excess property are the only things that make this palatable...and you still need to hold your nose while eating.

I think the completion of the museum and the ability to market the considerable excess property are the only things that make this palatable...and you still need to hold your nose while eating.


I think I agree, lol. Just a messy, messy situation. But, if there is a silver lining, it could be going into city hands, with plans to commercially develop that area. I'm okay with that. I'm not sure where the boundaries are for the 128 some odd acres, but it would be neat to see development fronting the river or right next to I-35.

I have always loved the idea of this museum. I desperately want it to be successful, regardless of who operates it. If it were to take off, imagine having a couple of 4 or 5 story hotels right next to it, with some shopping and restaurants. Tie is into the boathouse district somehow. Hell, while we're at it, incentivize the Old Paris people to really upgrade that place. I might be in a total minority, but I love Old Paris. If they could make it into some sort of small Hispanic type fun shopping area, more of a widely known destination shopping, that would be remarkable. Realistically, it isn't happening, just wishful thinking.

I find it strange that the estimate for completion was 80 million. Half state and half private. The state wants to provide 25 million. They will give back the property to OKC. In the interview with Couch the state wants to retain ownership of the building. It also sounded like the state want's OKC to have some sort of financial obligation to the state. I might have interpreted it all wrong. My understanding is that OKC has the legal right to reclaim the land and all improvements. It sounds like a bum deal. I think the city should just tell the state to fund the 40 million to finish it or we will take the land and the building.

OKC is in a unique position in the state in that both rural residents and especially folks in the only other major city all believe that somehow OKC gets disproportionate benefits from state funding. Heck, you can still find many Tulsans who believe that they played a role in funding MAPS improvements through state taxes or somehow paid for the Thunder relocation. Add in an already-populist state politically and the emergence of Tea Party politics and it was a recipe for disaster in this situation. State legislators in general care more about pandering to their ill-informed bases than they concern themselves with doing the right or honorable things, even if they know what the right and honorable things are. OKC is an easy target for them. What chaps me is when OKC-based legislators participate in the madness.

Another thing to think about. If it gets built to the high standards planned it will be a plus to OKC. It will have access to the vast collections of the Smithsonian. It will have access to the collections at the Natural History Museum in Norman. It will have access to the Gilcrease Museum in Tulsa. It will get private donations of individual collections. Access to all the tribal museums in Oklahoma. It will also make money from archiving artifacts from various CRM Archaeology projects.

okc is in a unique position in the state in that both rural residents and especially folks in the only other major city all believe that somehow okc gets disproportionate benefits from state funding. Heck, you can still find many tulsans who believe that they played a role in funding maps improvements through state taxes or somehow paid for the thunder relocation. Add in an already-populist state politically and the emergence of tea party politics and it was a recipe for disaster in this situation. State legislators in general care more about pandering to their ill-informed bases than they concern themselves with doing the right or honorable things, even if they know what the right and honorable things are. Okc is an easy target for them. What chaps me is when okc-based legislators participate in the madness.


this ^^^^

I find it strange that the estimate for completion was 80 million. Half state and half private. The state wants to provide 25 million. They will give back the property to OKC. In the interview with Couch the state wants to retain ownership of the building. It also sounded like the state want's OKC to have some sort of financial obligation to the state. I might have interpreted it all wrong. My understanding is that OKC has the legal right to reclaim the land and all improvements. It sounds like a bum deal. I think the city should just tell the state to fund the 40 million to finish it or we will take the land and the building.

This plan as I see it is a better solution for Okc than to just reclaim the land. In that case we have our 9 mil to finish it and still have to upkeep it. And find a future funding source.

In this case we get 25 mil in state funds. And whatever match that brings. (Hopefull with that 25 mil and 9 from OKC it brings 34 mil match ). In return all we have to do is pay the city half of revenue over 7 mil a year until the 25 is "paid" back. While getting the surrounding land for development. And once the bonds are paid we get the land. (I think this is state law they can't give the property while it still has bond debt).

Is this as good in the short term as OK finishing it. No. Is it better than Okc just taking it I think so

Seeing as how the tea party and republicans have screwed so much up, I understand why they have such a disdain for government...they think everyone will mess it up as badly as they have. Heck, it makes me want to privatize everything too...including the legislature. I think we should take bids on that. Corporate greed couldn't be any worse than hick ignorance, could it?

seeing as how the tea party and republicans have screwed so much up, i understand why they have such a disdain for government...they think everyone will mess it up as badly as they have. Heck, it makes me want to privatize everything too...including the legislature. I think we should take bids on that. Corporate greed couldn't be any worse than hick ignorance, could it?

wut?

The current proposal has passed the first hurdle.

Oklahoma House committee approves plan for Indian Cultural Center | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/oklahoma-house-committee-approves-plan-for-indian-cultural-center/article/5418868)

Mick is very cautious in his comments.


If the bill is passed, the state and the city would negotiate an agreement encompassing the main points of the measure.

Mayor Mick Cornett said the city will study the plan.

“We haven’t really had time to look at it,” he said. “We’d like to remain open-minded and respectful as we review the proposal and see if it’s something we want to pursue. None of that starts until it’s passed by the Legislature.”

This plan as I see it is a better solution for Okc than to just reclaim the land. In that case we have our 9 mil to finish it and still have to upkeep it. And find a future funding source.

In this case we get 25 mil in state funds. And whatever match that brings. (Hopefull with that 25 mil and 9 from OKC it brings 34 mil match ). In return all we have to do is pay the city half of revenue over 7 mil a year until the 25 is "paid" back. While getting the surrounding land for development. And once the bonds are paid we get the land. (I think this is state law they can't give the property while it still has bond debt).

Is this as good in the short term as OK finishing it. No. Is it better than Okc just taking it I think so

The problem is that Tulsa is getting a very good deal for some ludacris Hanson and Hinder museum in their downtown, which the state will run. This museum was hatched as an idea in response to OKC getting something. Before that, Tulsa was pushing their rejected proposal for its own AICM (the buildings that resembled a brassiere).

It's cracks me up that we have such short-term memory. It's like state history began when Mary Fallin proclaimed faith, family, and freedom for all...

The bonds for AICM aren’t going to be legal.

The last time bonds for AICM were passed they were tied to bonds for dams on the Arkansas River in the Tulsa area. The bonds for the river were contested in court and found to be illegal since they weren’t for a state project. Local projects can’t be supported by state bonds. Since the plan is to give the AICM to the city of Oklahoma City, it's now a local project and bonding to support construction isn’t going to be legal once it’s contested in court.

The Pop museum in the Brady District in Tulsa, which is a state project from the Oklahoma Historical Society, will be self-supporting through memberships/entrance tickets and also from parking fees generated even when the museum is closed from the parking garage that will be attached to the museum.

The Pop museum in the Brady District in Tulsa, which is a state project from the Oklahoma Historical Society, will be self-supporting through memberships/entrance tickets and also from parking fees generated even when the museum is closed from the parking garage that will be attached to the museum.

Is PROJECTED to be self supporting. Just like AICM is PROJECTED to be. The upside on the AICM is much, much higher with a potential national and international appeal. The Pop Museum will be well supported by Tulsans, a curiosity to others who happen to be in Tulsa for other things, and will do little to generate new revenue. Even if it supports itself and breaks even, it creates no new revenue for the state. It is a place where Tulsans can go pat themselves on the back and everyone else will be outsiders.

Leave it to our legislature to start something good, bungle it, and then look for someone to offload it on and expect them to fix it.

I'm not sold on the pop museum myself. It will be interesting. Not a tourist draw. I can't imagine how it has much educational value. These two projects should not be pitted against each other.

The POP museum seems nice, but this is just greasing the legislative wheel. No rep, either GOP or Dem, outside of OKC is going to vote for the AICC so they have to bribe the Tulsa reps with a carrot and pray that they scrape together a simple majority.

This whole fiasco really shows just how weak the OKC area representation is at the capitol.

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.gzvYM1tZ4Dpon28uDSfEZQ&pid=15.1&P=0
Will the State of Oklahoma wash its hand of this whole affair?


Under House Bill 2237, the state would use $25 million in bonds as final payment on the museum. To date, the state has spent $64.7 million on the AICCM, which had a price tag of $110 million in 2003 but now is in the range of $170 million.

Oklahoma Indian museum legislation making its way through Legislature | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-indian-museum-legislation-making-its-way-through-legislature/article/5419162)

The problem is that Tulsa is getting a very good deal for some ludacris Hanson and Hinder museum in their downtown, which the state will run. This museum was hatched as an idea in response to OKC getting something. Before that, Tulsa was pushing their rejected proposal for its own AICM (the buildings that resembled a brassiere).



Hanson isn't a draw at all anymore

Hanson playing downtown YESTERDAY at their Hop Jam Beer and Music Festival:
http://cache-img1.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/docserver/getimage.aspx?regionKey=4u7OsFxxeQ%2FDxUck2Uqo%2BA %3D%3D&scale=100
Hop Jam music review: Hanson caps off varied day of performances - Tulsa World: Offbeat (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/hop-jam-music-review-hanson-caps-off-varied-day-of/article_381ebecc-3953-5f7d-ba30-7615eb45cec3.html)

A really good turnout for them seeing as Mayfest was going on in the CBD and The Blue Dome Art festival was going on in the Blue Dome area at the same time. But then Hop Jam brings Hanson fans from across the country every year.

Blue Dome Arts Festival --- Downtown Tulsa, OK --- May 15th - 17th (http://bluedomearts.org/)
Tulsa International Mayfest presented by Midfirst Bank (http://tulsamayfest.org/)
The Hop Jam - Home (http://www.thehopjam.com/)

The problem is that Tulsa is getting a very good deal for some ludacris Hanson and Hinder museum in their downtown

That's an odd combination of musicians.

http://www.kboing.com.br/fotos/imagens/49d3bdd19b64e.jpg
https://kzoz.s3.amazonaws.com/jeff-and-jeremy/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hanson.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Hinder_Without_You.jpg

I didn't even know the first guy was from Tulsa. They should play a mixture of "Mmm-bop" and "Youse a ho" when you walk in the door of the museum.

That's an odd combination of musicians.

http://www.kboing.com.br/fotos/imagens/49d3bdd19b64e.jpg
https://kzoz.s3.amazonaws.com/jeff-and-jeremy/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/hanson.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6b/Hinder_Without_You.jpg

I didn't even know the first guy was from Tulsa. They should play a mixture of "Mmm-bop" and "Youse a ho" when you walk in the door of the museum.
+1

Hanson isn't a draw at all anymore

Hanson playing downtown YESTERDAY at their Hop Jam Beer and Music Festival:
http://cache-img1.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/docserver/getimage.aspx?regionKey=4u7OsFxxeQ%2FDxUck2Uqo%2BA %3D%3D&scale=100
Hop Jam music review: Hanson caps off varied day of performances - Tulsa World: Offbeat (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/offbeat/hop-jam-music-review-hanson-caps-off-varied-day-of/article_381ebecc-3953-5f7d-ba30-7615eb45cec3.html)

A really good turnout for them seeing as Mayfest was going on in the CBD and The Blue Dome Art festival was going on in the Blue Dome area at the same time. But then Hop Jam brings Hanson fans from across the country every year.

Blue Dome Arts Festival --- Downtown Tulsa, OK --- May 15th - 17th (http://bluedomearts.org/)
Tulsa International Mayfest presented by Midfirst Bank (http://tulsamayfest.org/)
The Hop Jam - Home (http://www.thehopjam.com/)

Yeah I was up there yesterday, but based on the crowd I went with and talked to while I was there...most people were there for the beer festival/Mayfest and saw Hanson out of convenience. I'm sure a good amount were there specifically to see Hansen, but the festival itself seemed to be the draw more so than the band. Regardless, it was a great event.

beer ... Hanson ... beer ... Hanson
beer ... Hanson ... beer ... Hanson

however is one to choose?!?

:)

As best as I can tell the current plan being worked on by the Legislature is HB 2237 (http://oklegislature.gov/BillInfo.aspx?Bill=HB2237), and it appears to have passed the House 58 to 36.

Sadly Luda isn't from Tulsa (to my knowledge, but I could be wrong), my generation just thinks that how ludacris is spelled.

I think the Tulsa "culture" thing failed. Couldn't win over enough crusty old Tea Party legislators.

Sadly Luda isn't from Tulsa (to my knowledge, but I could be wrong), my generation just thinks that how ludacris is spelled.

I think the Tulsa "culture" thing failed. Couldn't win over enough crusty old Tea Party legislators.

There is a report that someone is saying the accidentally voted against it and was not able to get it corrected before the vote closed so though some process will be reversing their vote, which will be enough to pass it

They should just accidentally not do that. This is ridiculous, the Hanson Museum will forever be known as the accident. There is no reason for that to exist other than that OKC got something for once. And Tulsa still got a better state project than us.

They could issue bonds to provide subsidized financing for the tornado tower thing (which should be in Moore). That would be better than funding this idiotic idea of the Historical Society.

Tulsa should just continue to not pass anything remotely like MAPS because the state will fill in the void under the common assumption that MAPS was a state project.

Tulsa didn't get a better project than OKC, Tulsa got better FUNDING than OKC.

I think the Tulsa "culture" thing failed. Couldn't win over enough crusty old Tea Party legislators.

This is getting old. Do you even know what the party line vote was? 6 of the 8 Democrats voted against it, and 1 didn't vote. With a $600 million budget deficit, across the board cuts to every department, and one all ready financially troubled museum - the 6 Democrats are right.