Don't you think that at this point with at much PR as has been done on this, if the public actually supported it, there would have been plenty private financial backing already? It seems like after all this time, commercials, pushes, etc. that if the people wanted their money used on this thing, they would have given it already. Using tax money on this when there are so many things that need it for better things, just doesn't jive with me. Personally, I think the project was a bad idea from day 1. When tribes don't even contribute, you've got someone pushing something that no one wants.

$40 million in private donations have already been raised but they still need another $40 million to finish.

The same designers that designed this project and the buckling skydance bridge designed the Central Park? I wonder how many issues it will have?

I think the Skydance bridge was designed by locals - Hans Butzer, who also designed the Memorial, the Central park is from Hargraves, a national firm ? IIRC

It failed by a handful of votes. It'll pass next go around.

This is not accurate, unless you referring only to the internal republican only headcount.
The Gov. was on board to sign if it reached her desk.
The Senate approved the funding plan if memory serves.
There were enough votes in the House to pass the plan.
The Speaker decided he would not allow a vote. Although a majority of the membership would vote aye, that majority of the House did not include a majority of the republican members.

So, even though the people's elected representatives in the Senate had already voted aye, and the majority of the people's elected representatives had already said they would vote aye if the bill came to a vote in the House, because it wasn't going to also be a majority of the Republicans in the House, the Speaker decided to play politics and not exhibit leadership.

It is not unfair to point anyone who thinks spending 3/4 million on the site with zero progress directly to the Speaker's front door. The most powerful republican in the state which claims they are all about smaller government decided to blow 3/4 of a million for purely partisan showmanship, in complete disregard to the will of the majority; not just the majority of the house membership, but the majority of Oklahomans. If there was truly a clamor to shut this down as something the people do not want, would that many people be on board? Would that many seats go uncontested in the elections this year? I suggest not.

Not the man's finest hour as Speaker.

I think the speaker's actions go directly to his character and those of his supporters. To them, it is not the "will of the people', is the will of those who can get it however they can. These same tea party leaders claim they want to make government less powerful. What they mean is that they want to make their opposition less powerful.

This is not accurate, unless you referring only to the internal republican only headcount.
The Gov. was on board to sign if it reached her desk.
The Senate approved the funding plan if memory serves.
There were enough votes in the House to pass the plan.
The Speaker decided he would not allow a vote. Although a majority of the membership would vote aye, that majority of the House did not include a majority of the republican members.

So, even though the people's elected representatives in the Senate had already voted aye, and the majority of the people's elected representatives had already said they would vote aye if the bill came to a vote in the House, because it wasn't going to also be a majority of the Republicans in the House, the Speaker decided to play politics and not exhibit leadership.

It is not unfair to point anyone who thinks spending 3/4 million on the site with zero progress directly to the Speaker's front door. The most powerful republican in the state which claims they are all about smaller government decided to blow 3/4 of a million for purely partisan showmanship, in complete disregard to the will of the majority; not just the majority of the house membership, but the majority of Oklahomans. If there was truly a clamor to shut this down as something the people do not want, would that many people be on board? Would that many seats go uncontested in the elections this year? I suggest not.

Not the man's finest hour as Speaker.

I'm talking about the internal head count and one of the drivers against it won't be around next session. It'll pass.

Oklahoma House members meet to discuss way forward for OKC's American Indian Cultural Center and Museum | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-house-members-meet-to-discuss-way-forward-for-okcs-american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum/article/5344927)


Key members of the Oklahoma House met recently with top backers of the half-finished American Indian Cultural Center and Museum in Oklahoma City to discuss the way forward for the long-stalled state project.
“It’s a state asset,” House Speaker Jeff Hickman said Tuesday. “We have to do something with it, either complete it or transfer it to somebody else.”

Hickman, speaker of the caucus rather than Speaker of the house, is apparently still on his only the majority caucus matters kick.

OKC, please go take back your land. The state left you some nice pressies on it.

My 2 Cents: American Indian Cultural Center Still Sits Unfinishe - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/26622123/my-2-cents-american-indian-cultural-center-still-sits-unfinished)

A rare moment when I actually agree with this guy. This museum needs to be finished. OKC needs a new world class museum that can showcase our states Indian heritage.

here here

Let's say that the state doesn't act to finish the AICCM, Oklahoma City will. There's a lot invested in this project. Much like the city did with the Skirvin; we may have to overtake completion of this project.

Use the state rainy day fund and then fill it back up with the earnings before anything else.

nm

nm

A majority of the majority is pretty common in all politics. Same thing happens nationally. Keystone XL will never be brought to the senate floor even though it'd pass.

A majority of the majority is pretty common in all politics. Same thing happens nationally. Keystone XL will never be brought to the senate floor even though it'd pass.

And that's why people hate politicians. They don't believe in democracy, they believe in power.

^^^^^^^^
Truer words have never been spoken on this forum.

We should rename this thread to Boondoggle

We should rename this thread to Boondoggle

If you're referring to the state legislature, that would be correct.

Tribal tax could help finish building cultural center - The Edmond Sun: Local News (http://www.edmondsun.com/news/local_news/tribal-tax-could-help-finish-building-cultural-center/article_717a3b7a-691e-11e4-afe0-033c319f3159.html)

I've lost my faith in the Legislature to resolve the matter. OKC, go reclaim your land, change the locks and use it as you see fit.

Not that I wouldn't like to see the project completed, I think it would be pretty cool to see, however that land would be perfect for an enclosed NFL stadium. Perfect to drive more tourism to OKC and would get a lot of money into the state, especially when it is our turn to host super bowls. I can't think of any other location close to the urban core that would fit a super bowl quality stadium and parking.

Not that I wouldn't like to see the project completed, I think it would be pretty cool to see, however that land would be perfect for an enclosed NFL stadium. Perfect to drive more tourism to OKC and would get a lot of money into the state, especially when it is our turn to host super bowls. I can't think of any other location close to the urban core that would fit a super bowl quality stadium and parking.

I doubt this happens in the next 30 years.

I doubt this happens in the next 30 years.

You are right, but a man can dream can't he?

Oklahoma panel examines Indian museum funding | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-panel-examines-indian-museum-funding/article/5365404)

If an NFL Stadium were built, that is one of the sports venues I would like to see in the suburbs. I would prefer a soccer stadium downtown however.

Lawmakers grill museum officials on money spent for multi-million dollar project | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/11/10/lawmakers-grill-museum-officials-on-money-spent-for-multi-million-dollar-project/)

I guess I have never seen what the full plans are but is there no way we could at least do a phased approach to get something open soon, it seems like a lot of site prep has been done where events could be held and there are a few buildings and then expand on offerings once they get the funding to do so.

Oklahoma City, Crossroads America

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608015138652030599&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608044541996370572&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607999844278275257&pid=15.1&P=0

Once this museum is finished; it will become a showcase, a genuine Smithsonian.

Glad they gambled and built something that will become a tourist attraction. We're the true crossroads 'interchange' city of the United States where I-35/I-40 intersect, that is something we should recognize and take full advantage; get that ZOOM CITY moniker off our backs.

We have a ton of development planned for the future. You will see our city become a 'boomtown' as we enter the decade of 2020.

There needs to be long-term planning & development for the 2020-30 stretch in which our state & city collectively addresses 'public safety & infrastructure.'

Oklahoma's hope for cashing in on heritage becomes a debacle (http://news.yahoo.com/oklahomas-hope-cashing-heritage-becomes-debacle-064807970.html)

MADE YAHOO Front page
:Smiley122:lol2::Smiley199

Out of everything going, this has made me so mad I can't even think straight when I think about this issue.

There is a good chance this will be resolved in the next legislative session.

If it doesn't get the $40 million in matching funds, then I'll be really worried.

Had the Speaker acted as Speaker of the House instead of senior majority whip last session, this would already be resolved. Sadly, a minority of the House has all but killed this project. The Senate was on board the solution,the governor was on board the solution and a majority of the House said they would be on board if only give the chance to vote.

Such is partisan leadership vs. true leadership.

OKC, take back your property already. The state appears incapable of going forward.

There is a good chance this will be resolved in the next legislative session.

If it doesn't get the $40 million in matching funds, then I'll be really worried.You mean next year? So we're going to be waiting another year before a decision is made than how many years from that will funding be in place to start construction then how many years until it opens?

This is such a horribly done project. Projects that aren't fully funded should never start. They almost always have problems. When you can barely get the funding for what you have, how do you deal with cost overruns? They should have taken a 300 million dollar bond issue from the start and did this right so it could have opened 4 years ago.

None the less, I am still excited for this. Other than the whitewater facility, I think this will be a huge tourist draw.

No, I mean next month.

No, I mean next month.
Awesome!

Had the Speaker acted as Speaker of the House instead of senior majority whip last session, this would already be resolved. Sadly, a minority of the House has all but killed this project. The Senate was on board the solution,the governor was on board the solution and a majority of the House said they would be on board if only give the chance to vote.

Such is partisan leadership vs. true leadership.

OKC, take back your property already. The state appears incapable of going forward.

Yeah; the Speaker caught "a little bit of manure" for that one. I think is from a small town out West. Even the Minority
whip complained to him. It's kind of like restoring a 65 Mustang and everything is perfectly done, but oh, we forgot the motor. In too deep not to finish now.

From the JR:

Oklahoma’s hope for cashing in on heritage becomes a debacle

By: Sean Murphy Associated Press January 23, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – Like many states, Oklahoma wants to be a tourist destination. And leaders here believe they have an ideal attraction: Oklahoma’s heritage as the U.S. Indian Territory in the 1800s and as home to 39 tribes.

But after nearly 10 years and $90 million spent, what was to be the centerpiece for a tourism magnet, a Smithsonian-quality museum of Native American culture, has become a costly debacle that had yet to lure its first visitor and is stirring sour feelings among the Indians whose traditions would be portrayed.

Strategically located at the crossroads of two major interstates, and next to Oklahoma City’s glitzy redeveloped downtown entertainment district, sits a modernistic complex of C-shaped buildings that is large enough to fit 30 football fields but only half finished and out of money.

Another $40 million is needed for the project, but the Legislature is balking at paying, in a head-on collision between the state’s tourism ambitions and its increasingly conservative, anti-spending politics.

“The state was too aggressive here and bit off more than it could chew,” said Republican Rep. Jason Murphey, one of many legislators in the GOP-controlled House who opposes more state money for the museum. “And we’re paying for that mistake, but this isn’t the time to double down.”

Even the support of the state’s Republican governor, Mary Fallin, and the state Senate and an earlier pledge of $40 million in mostly private funds haven’t broken the stalemate, which will confront the Legislature when it reconvenes next month.

In another twist, the recent swoon in oil prices may now make any appropriation harder to get, even though the price drop has underscored the need to diversify the state’s energy-dependent economy.

“Our caucus has brainstormed on some different ideas, and I don’t have an answer today about what that looks like,” said House Speaker Jeffrey Hickman.

The vision for the Indian attraction began in the 1980s when oil prices collapsed from more than $35 per barrel to below $10. Oil and gas production taxes accounted for more than one-third of the state-appropriated budget at the time.

Studies projected that a Native American cultural center could bring in up to 225,000 visitors and $190 million annually. The Legislature approved a series of bond issues to pay for it.

The museum would weave together the stories of the dozens of tribes forced by the U.S. government to move out of the path of white expansion in other regions to the remote prairies of what is now Oklahoma. The forced removals included the notorious “Trail of Tears,” in which more than 17,000 Cherokees were marched overland from their ancestral home in Georgia. An estimated 4,000 died during the trek.

About 120,000 Indians overall were resettled here before the territory itself was gradually opened to white settlers in a series of land runs beginning in the late 1880s.

Oklahoma – named after the Choctaw word for “red people” – has a story ripe for presentation to visitors, according to historians and museum experts.

“Because of the unprecedented and unequalled assemblage of Indian nations in Oklahoma, it’s a very unique story and one that is national in scope,” said Kevin Gover, director of the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian in Washington, D.C.

The Smithsonian has offered a major loan of artifacts from its huge Native American collection.

The museum’s ambitious design features several huge galleries, a multipurpose theater and a gathering space dubbed the Hall of the People. Towering stone walls at one entrance were built with thousands of individual stones that symbolized the tribes’ journeys to Oklahoma. The site includes a 90-foot-tall earthen mound visible for miles, inspired by the mound-building Native American cultures.

But the project didn’t get the federal funds its backers expected, and the Legislature, which grew more conservative in recent elections, wouldn’t approve another bond issue.

Although the Indian history portrayed is one of struggle and loss, many Native Americans in Oklahoma welcomed the tribute and have been put off by the political fight, especially suggestions that the tribes themselves put up the needed money – beyond the $20 million they’ve already kicked in – to finish what was always a state project.

“I don’t understand why it hasn’t been completed,” said Kelly Haney, a renowned Native American artist and former chief of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma. “I’ve never lost my faith in the fact that the cultural center will be built. I still think it will. I just don’t know how.”

We need to get it done. Now, not in 10 years.

I went to DC back in October and made a point to go to the American Indian Smithsonian. While there was some cool stuff, there, I just couldn't help but think how it could be better. This museum could be better, maybe even be a Smithsonian partner since they are going to loan artifacts. If I remember right the curator at the museum in DC is an Okie himself.

We need this.

This was one project that really had me excited.
This was scheduled to be one of the "destination spots" for visitors, and a quality one at that.
Whenever we have an opportunity to showcase our history and showcase it in a high quality destination point (such as this one was rendered out to be), it should be pursued. The location, the scope, etc. of this project is too good to pass up on. This project needs to be finished as soon as possible, either by the city "reclaiming" the land, private donations, etc. It would be a shame to just tear it all down at this point, although in it's unfinished state, it's an eyesore, not going to lie.

Hopefully we can get the right people on board for this project to try and get it finished.

Projects that aren't fully funded should never start.

Like highway improvements?

Everything about this facility is wrong - from government selling the history of the people government forced here in the first place to the bat-**** crazy revenue projections. I also am not sure about the claim that the $40 million in private donations are really private donations. If memory serves, a large portion of those private donations were really public dollars. Anyhow, that $40 million is enough to finish the museum. If the people pledging that money would have just written the checks when they pledged it this facility would be open already. The article does under-score one thing though - during the oil boom we should have been taxing oil companies to pay for diversification - but Oklahoma did the exact opposite.

The biggest issue I have with this is this was the state Legislature's idea and they are the ones who are stalling it. If they would deed it to the city, we would get it done.

The article does under-score one thing though - during the oil boom we should have been taxing oil companies to pay for diversification - but Oklahoma did the exact opposite.

Wait.....a republican tea partier wanting to raise taxes? I guess negativity trumps dogma.

Wait.....a republican tea partier wanting to raise taxes? I guess negativity trumps dogma.

You have been listening to fake republicans too much and confusing them for real fiscal conservatives like myself. I firmly believe we should pay for what we ask of government. If we did we would quickly stop asking for so much. It is the people who believe in the growth model as a funding mechanism that are clueless because it doesn't work.

Like highway improvements?
Road and transportation projects are exceptions to that. Yes, that includes your beloved streetcar.

Road and transportation projects are exceptions to that. Yes, that includes your beloved streetcar.

Why should road and transportation projects be the exception?

Why should road and transportation projects be the exception?Because millions of people rely on them.

Democratic Leaders Back Funding For Native American Center - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/27963474/democratic-leaders-back-funding-for-native-american-center)

From the JR:

Indian museum has support, disagreements linger on funding

By: Associated Press January 30, 2015
OKLAHOMA CITY – While key legislators agree that it’s important for the state to complete work on the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum near Oklahoma City, there’s little agreement on how to pay for it.

Going into Monday’s legislative session, it’s not clear whether the state can scrape together $40 million to complete the project near the intersection of Interstates 35 and 40 – especially when Oklahoma faces a $300 million budget shortfall.

“Can we pull a rabbit out of our hat? Yeah, we probably can. But no matter what that rabbit looks like, somebody’s not going to like it,” state Sen. Clark Jolley, R-Edmond and chairman of the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee, said Friday.

Before Oklahoma was Oklahoma, it was Indian Territory, and it remains a home to 39 federally recognized tribes. To recognize its heritage, state officials two decades ago began planning a major attraction dedicated to Native American life.

Construction costs have totaled $90 million and the first patron hasn’t crossed the threshold. Another $40 million in mostly private funding has been lined up, but another $40 million is needed from the state.

Lee Allan Smith, who has helped raise private money, said a fourth year of failures at the Legislature may cause some people to back off their pledges.

“They’re kind of disappointed,” Smith said. “The $40 million is over if we don’t get it done this year, and $40 million is nothing to sneeze at.”

House Democratic leader Scott Inman said at an Associated Press forum this week that his 29-member caucus would support a bond issue, but such a plan would need the backing of at least 22 Republican House members.

The Democratic leader in the Senate, Randy Bass, said, however, that the state should not borrow money. It already is doing so to fix its crumbling Capitol building.

“A bond issue, to me, is kind of a little crazy when you’re $300 million down,” Bass said at the forum. “It’s like taking a pay cut and going in and charging all your credit cards.”

Senate President Pro Tem Brian Bingman said buying now and paying later wouldn’t work. “The will of the Legislature when we’re talking about bonding is not great,” he said at the forum.

Legislators appeared poised to help the museum in 2013 but diverted money for tornado relief after a deadly EF5 storm devastated parts of Moore late in the session. The budget shortfall may keep legislators from revisiting the question.

“Budgetarily, this is not a good year to try to answer the problem,” Jolley said.

State Rep. Paul Wesselhoft this week suggested Oklahoma dedicate 5 percent of its lottery proceeds to the museum – or $3 million annually based on current sales. If legislators lose interest in the museum, he said he’d introduce a bill to “tie a bow around it and give it to Oklahoma City,” which is amid major municipal development projects.

OKC shouldn't wait on Wesselhoft's bow. It's past time for oKC to take back its dirt, and all the toys the state has left sitting on it in the process.
OKC isn't perfect, but I doubt the place would just sit another several years.

The State was offered 6 different build-out scenarios. The $40 million in non-state money already pledged is enough to fully fund 5 of those 6 scenarios. Just pick one of those five and finish it. If this place is going to generate the $2 billion in economic benefit the supporters claim then upgrading the facility later should be no problem.

The State was offered 6 different build-out scenarios. The $40 million in non-state money already pledged is enough to fully fund 5 of those 6 scenarios. Just pick one of those five and finish it. If this place is going to generate the $2 billion in economic benefit the supporters claim then upgrading the facility later should be no problem.

You claim to be smartest in the room, so why don't you understand that the private pledges match the state money, not supplant it. Your tea party buddies need to just pull their heads out and finish it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is an incredibly important project for OKC's and the state's identity. I have no clue if it will make money, but it's impact will go well beyond finances. Oklahoma is known for its Native history. To not have a centralized museum would be equivalent to Boston not having freedom trail tours. Actually, it would be worse because at least the scattered museums in Boston are within walking distance. The various tribal cultural centers (which I think will see more traffic as a result of this museum) can be quite a hike.

I hope this gets done in a high quality way.

JTF, 40 mil pledge to match 40 mil by the state is only 40 mil in pledges if there are funds to be matched. So far, the state, even when the majority of elected officials were on board to say yes, has said no. Most recently this is because it is not enough for a majority of elected officials to be on board. There must also be a specific makeup for the majority to actually be treated as a majority.

I find myself hoping OKC will take back their dirt this year. I think that is the only way something meaningful happens at this point.

^^^

I agree. I don't think the legislature is going to fund it this year given the budget shortfall. It's time for the city to take back its land and finish the project.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but why doesn't the 39 tribes put up a million each to fund the cultural center?

You claim to be smartest in the room, so why don't you understand that the private pledges match the state money, not supplant it. Your tea party buddies need to just pull their heads out and finish it.

The State half of the matching funds has already been provided. In fact, they have put in 2X what they agreed to pay. You can't change the funding rules after the fact - well you can, but this is what you end up with.

The State half of the matching funds has already been provided. In fact, they have put in 2X what they agreed to pay. You can't change the funding rules after the fact - well you can, but this is what you end up with.

I'm sorry you are struggling with this. You probably need to follow this more closely. I am sure it is confusing.

I'm sorry you are struggling with this. You probably need to follow this more closely. I am sure it is confusing.

It's not confusing. The private match never materialized. The private sector was supposed to raise $80 million. They only got $40 million and then that was contingent on the state spending another $40 million. That is not what the agreement was. The AICC Board was given 6 options, they picked the most expensive. Go back and pick the 2nd most expensive and finish it with the funds already pledged. If they would have done that in the beginning this place would have been opened 2 years ago.

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but why doesn't the 39 tribes put up a million each to fund the cultural center?

Most Native peoples have their own cultural centers. This is a state project. If they want to donate they can, but there is no reason they should be obligated to do so. Western, black, Native, Asian-American history is our shared American history. No single group should be asked to foot the bill. We will all benefit from this museum.

It's not confusing. The private match never materialized. The private sector was supposed to raise $80 million. They only got $40 million and then that was contingent on the state spending another $40 million. That is not what the agreement was. The AICC Board was given 6 options, they picked the most expensive. Go back and pick the 2nd most expensive and finish it with the funds already pledged. If they would have done that in the begging this place would have been opened 2 years ago.

That's an interesting, creative and predictable, but untruthful recounting. In 2012 a bid package was prepared for items to complete the project, at which time the legislature was asked for $40 million as a MATCH to $40 million in pledged private funds that were contingent on the state providing their amount. The legislature failed for approve a bond issuance for the project, and the tea party has orchestrated a rebuff since then.