I would not call the Winstar high-quality.

Big yes, high quality no.

I've now stayed at both Caesar's Palace and MGM Grand, and my room at WinStar was nicer than both.

Have you been there lately? Have you been inside the new hotel tower? It is very nice.

I've now stayed at both Caesar's Palace and MGM Grand, and my room at WinStar was nicer than both.

Have you been there lately? Have you been inside the new hotel tower? It is very nice.

Neither Caesars or MGM grand are really nice.

I've now stayed at both Caesar's Palace and MGM Grand, and my room at WinStar was nicer than both.

Have you been there lately? Have you been inside the new hotel tower? It is very nice.

I should have been more clear, the exterior seems to be very poorly designed. I'm sure the interior is fine.

Neither Caesars or MGM grand are really nice.

Not the point. The point is the Winstar offers nice rooms.

I should have been more clear, the exterior seems to be very poorly designed. I'm sure the interior is fine.

What's wrong with the exterior design?

This thread has devolved badly

Yep.

I actually have to laugh at the thought that gambling will solve the problem. What financial problem has gambling EVER solved?

Yep.

I actually have to laugh at the thought that gambling will solve the problem. What financial problem has gambling EVER solved?Seriously? Who said gambling will solve the problem? The problem would be solved be allowing a casino or two to be built along the river in the vicinity of the AICC. The tribes would make money on this, the AICC would get, and the city of OKC would get more tax dollars. New hotels would be built for the casinos. There would be a gift shop, new tourist shops, eateries inside and around the casino, new life would be brought to the area, our skyline would be extended along the river.... I can go on and on.

Yep.

I actually have to laugh at the thought that gambling will solve the problem. What financial problem has gambling EVER solved?

The casino owners usually do pretty well. :)

The casino owners usually do pretty well. :)

Actually, in the long run even they don't.

Oklahoma's gaming tribes are on target to pay about $120 million in fees to the state. When the first tribal compact was signed five years ago, it was estimated tribal gaming fees could fetch about $70 million a year.

Tribal gaming fees continue to grow for Oklahoma | News OK (http://newsok.com/tribal-gaming-fees-continue-to-grow-for-oklahoma/article/3465693)


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

There is zero chance this site will become a casino.

Lets throw out some names just in case it does one day become a casino shall we....
Ill begin....
Cha-Chinga
Bricktown Casino
Takadamoolohouttaytspocket.

There is zero chance this site will become a casino.

Can't argue this. Well, I could but it would sure be silly to do so.

2000-2010


Who would have ever thought that the 2000-2010 decade we would see:

1. New 13,090-seat ballpark in the Bricktown area
2. Bricktown Canal River Walk
3. New 18,200-seat NHL-NBA arena in downtown Oklahoma City
4. NBA (Thunder) or an NHL franchise in Oklahoma City
5. A new 50 story (850 ft.) Tower in downtown Oklahoma City
6. Development of Bricktown Entertainment District
7. Remington Park purchase & renovations (Global Gaming RP Chickasaw Nation)
8. Oklahoma Riverfront development
9. New downtown/Bricktown hotels, residential apartments and restaurants


2010-2020


Future looks bright for Oklahoma City:

1. Modern Transit Street Car System in downtown Oklahoma City
2. Downtown Central Park
3. New Downtown Convention Center
4. American Indian Cultural Center & Museum:
5. . . .


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSXH53Dm-cie9pwPwDsm7mYeAu1sBJIgVlbL1gMYhxoOsdJtUG9-Q

http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

5....4 probably won't happen.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5

Lets throw out some names just in case it does one day become a casino shall we....
Ill begin....
Cha-Chinga
Bricktown Casino
Takadamoolohouttaytspocket.

William J. Le Petomane Memorial Gambling Casino For The Insane

NzbhbetwYFU

Yep.

I actually have to laugh at the thought that gambling will solve the problem. What financial problem has gambling EVER solved?

Proving that gambling doesn't solve financial problems.

William J. Le Petomane Memorial Gambling Casino For The Insane

NzbhbetwYFU

I apparently I need to watch blazing saddles a lot more than I thought I did...

They need to show that move once a year (or more often), like The Ten Commandments, The Wizard of Oz and It's a Wonderful Life.

They need to show that move once a year (or more often), like The Ten Commandments, The Wizard of Oz and It's a Wonderful Life.

They do. I see it on TV regularly.

That movie could not be made today.

I apparently I need to watch blazing saddles a lot more than I thought I did...

You have not seen it??? It is a classic.

One could argue that investing in the stock market is a gamble as well.

I apparently I need to watch blazing saddles a lot more than I thought I did...

Yes - you do.

Private donations could go away due to the ineptitude of our legislature.

Because a deal that leveraged tribal and private donations with state support never made it out of the House of Representatives, private donors have given the AICCM staff until only June 30 to develop a plan to keep the project alive.
Just a few weeks remain to secure a way to fund the center’s completion, said Blake Wade, executive director of the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority, which is developing the museum.
“Our donors said they will wait until June 30 to look at a plan, but that’s about as far as they will go,” Wade said Tuesday. “Right now we’re doing everything possible to come up with a way to save the center.”
Also, the city taking it back is a possibility.

On Tuesday, Wade confirmed that he had been meeting with members of the Oklahoma City Council about assuming control of the project. He said the city owns the land the facility sits on and the deed allows it to take back the land in the event the center isn’t built.
“It’s certainly an option,” Wade said. “The deed states that if the state doesn’t fulfill (the task) of putting the cultural center there, it reverts back to the city. The only thing the land can be used for is the cultural center.”

Full article: ?We?re running out of time?: Donors set deadline for Indian museum plan | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/06/03/were-running-out-of-time-donors-set-deadline-for-indian-museum-plan-capitol/)

OKC ... take back your dirt and all the stuff Speaker Hickman decided the state no longer wants.

Why did the private (and I use the term 'private' loosely) donation drive stop when they got to $40 million? Maybe if they had gotten $60 million the state might have been willing to give $20 million more.

You have not seen it??? It is a classic.

No, was raised by a single mother who is technically a foreign national and thus with no understanding of "classic" in the American cultural context. Cultural icons like Star Wars or MTV or what have you I got from TV, school, or neighborhood friends and such, but none of those outlets during my upbringing got this particular movie in front of my eyes for whatever reason.

I was taken to see Blazing Saddles -- scratch that: The first 10 minutes or so of Blazing Saddles in the movie theater with my parents.

Why did the private (and I use the term 'private' loosely) donation drive stop when they got to $40 million? Maybe if they had gotten $60 million the state might have been willing to give $20 million more.

Just as many on here claim that private companies have gotten addicted to incentives, we have also become addicted and take for granted sometimes all that private individuals and companies have done for the public. This is a state initiative, not a private one. It benefits all citizens of the state in a cultural sense and some would argue in a fiscal sense. I think we keep going back to Devon, Chesapeake, et al and then the same people who ask them to keep giving criticize that they are reckless with their money. They offered to put up tens of millions of dollars and have had great patience in waiting for the state to make the right moves, and now we expect them to pony up more?

Come on Rover. Sooner or later you have to start playing with facts.

That comment confuses me, Kerry. What facts do you have that he is not currently playing with?

That comment confuses me, Kerry. What facts do you have that he is not currently playing with?

The fact that half the funding for this project was supposed to come from private donations. The State has already given $20 million more than the agreement called for. The State fulfilled its financial obligation in 2005. Rover knows this; he just chooses to ignore it.

The state's obligation was also to finish the museum or the city could take the land back. If the original funding was insufficient, then I would argue that the spirit of the financial obligation was not fulfilled.

The state's obligation was also to finish the museum or the city could take the land back. If the original funding was insufficient, then I would argue that the spirit of the financial obligation was not fulfilled.

There were 3 entities that were supposed to fund this: The State, the federal government, and private donations. The State has spent $20 million than they agreed to and the federal government and private donors are way behind. The $40 million in private donations are enough to finish the facility - so why don't they just take the $40 million already pledged and finish it, or better yet, see if they can raise the additional $40 million from other private donors?

Option 3 from the audit report recommends taking the $40 million pledged and finishing it.

http://www.sai.ok.gov/Search%20Reports/database/NACEAWeb%20Final.pdf

Come on Rover. Sooner or later you have to start playing with facts.

The JTF translated facts? No, I got those.

"Just as many on here claim that private companies have gotten addicted to incentives, we have also become addicted and take for granted sometimes all that private individuals and companies have done for the public. This is a state initiative, not a private one. It benefits all citizens of the state in a cultural sense and some would argue in a fiscal sense. I think we keep going back to Devon, Chesapeake, et al and then the same people who ask them to keep giving criticize that they are reckless with their money. They offered to put up tens of millions of dollars and have had great patience in waiting for the state to make the right moves, and now we expect them to pony up more? "

In my statement you are referring to, what facts are wrong? That you weren't asking private investors for more money? That it isn't the state's responsibility to finish it? That the state, not the donors, is responsible for any early mismanagement? That we don't sometimes take for granted the amount of money that has been donated by companies like Chesapeake and Devon?

Options being weighed. This whole thing really sucks.


OKLAHOMA CITY - The push to fund the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum intensifies as organizers work to come up with the remaining $40 million.
The state originally agreed to match the $40 million the center raised in private donations, but legislators failed to agree where to get the money from last month.

The outside of the cultural center looks complete, but the inside is far from it, and construction won't continue until all of the money is there. Sitting tall and wide, the framework for the project is hard to miss from the freeway.

It's been half-finished for several years, in need of $80 million to open its doors, but the state didn't make a move.

"When the state government creates an agency, we should fully fund it," said Senator Kyle Loveless. "We've already put so much into it. That would be a bad investment to just stop now."

"The consensus is we need to do something," added Senator Loveless. "I just hope that we can do something before the private dollars go away."

Loveless said the reasons why the state probably chose not pay up the $40 million is because most people think the tribes have not contributed, and that the state has already done its fair share.

"Tribes have given more that $20 million, so the only thing left to do is to figure out what other pots are available and if any more private money can be raised, and if the city of Oklahoma City wants to step up," said Senator Loveless. "Those are basically your options, or basically, plow it under."

House Speaker Jeff Hickman said in a statement:

"With almost $200 million less for the Legislature to appropriate this year, and with critical needs in state employee pay, adequate funding for our schools and the State Capitol Building literally falling down around us, the members had to set budget priorities just like every Oklahoman and completing the Native American Cultural Center was not able to be addressed in this tight budget."

Oklahoma City can choose to take back the land it agreed to give the state if the center is never completed. The cultural center's team is working around the clock to make sure the support is still there.

"We will ask all 100 percent of our donors whether they will stick with us or not, but as of today, 90 percent of them said, 'yes, we'll stay with you,'" Chief Executive of the Native American Cultural and Education Authority, Blake Wade, said.

"We're waiting on direction from state leaders with how we want to proceed, while working with our donors," said Wade. "This center is going to be the Smithsonian of the west."

Former state senator and Seminole Nation Chief Enoch Kelly Haney is confident the center will open, and the sales tax it generates will more than pay back the state's investment.

"There's always a way, and we're exploring some different ways right now," said Haney. "We started with a dream with nothing, and look where we are now. I think we've made a lot of progress."

"We raised our end of the deal, but the state didn't hold to their word," added Haney. "In my opinion, just another broken promise, and we're kind of used to that."

- Groups Weigh Funding Options For American Indian Cultural Center - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/25707905/groups-weigh-funding-options-for-american-indian-cultural-center)

American Indian Cultural Center and Museum is working to keep donors on board | News OK (http://newsok.com/american-indian-cultural-center-and-museum-is-working-to-keep-donors-on-board/article/4884524)

Actually, in the long run even they don't.


Tell that to Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn

Braced for a wait: Indian museum on hold until after elections | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/09/12/braced-for-a-wait-indian-museum-on-hold-until-after-elections-real-estate/)

Braced for a wait: Indian museum on hold until after elections

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 12, 20140

OKLAHOMA CITY – Blake Wade believes enough new politicians will win seats in the state Legislature in the upcoming elections to get the American Indian Cultural Center and Museum open.

Until then, city government officials said their hands are tied. Even though there’s interest in picking up the responsibility for what could be a major tourist attraction and economic boost, they can’t even figure out how much it would cost to operate and maintain.

“We won’t come out of this limbo until we see how the elections shake out,” said Wade, executive director of the Native American Cultural and Educational Authority, which is overseeing the development of the museum. “The 20 positions that are vacant or up for re-election are vital to this process, and we’re confident about the outcome.

“We just met with Speaker of the House Jeff Hickman, and he asked us to wait until November to do a head count,” Wade said. “And Sen. Clark Jolley of the Senate is looking at possible avenues to assist as well.”

The museum, at the intersection of Interstates 40 and 35 near the Oklahoma River, remains a partially complete shell, as it’s been for several years. Its underlying concept is to portray the rich history of the state and its many tribes. Of the museum’s $80 million price tag, half has been pledged by public organizations and private donors, including tribal entities.

Those funds are based on the contingency of matching contributions from the state government, however. In May, the center’s board of directors tried to craft legislative language that would have pinned down that money, but legislators pulled out of negotiations at the last minute.

Wade said he had moved on to the Oklahoma City Council in hopes of finding an alternative solution. After all, the center fits nicely with the Core to Shore development and growth of the Bricktown entertainment district, and the city has proven it can ably manage public facilities such as the Cox Convention Center.

And in 2012, the city government pledged $9 million to complete the museum. Officials were told the city could expect about $4 million in sales tax revenue annually from visitor activity.

“I am an advocate for doing this. If the state isn’t going to move forward, then we need to step up,” Councilman Pete White said. “It’s too important an asset to the state and the city to let it go over some regional bickering.

“I think it’s doable,” he said. “But my concern is getting a handle on operations and maintenance costs, the nut we’d have to crack each month to make it work.”

City Manager Jim Couch agreed with White. He said he can’t even order city staff members to due diligence until state officials provide clearance.

“It’s a little moot at this point because, A, we don’t have possession of the facility, and B, there’s a gap in the funding to finish it,” he said. “Outside of that, it seems like it’s a pretty straightforward deal.

“Will we have to be aggressive with our efforts to get possession of it or will we need to negotiate for something?” he said. ”There’s not answer to that yet.”

Wade said Friday that all of the donors have agreed to be patient and wait out the start of the next legislative session before they withdraw their pledges.

This doesn't look like it will ever be resolved. OKC needs to reevaluate its legislative outreach program, starting with replacing all of its lobbyists (it's astounding that we pay for lobbyists and get nothing but a continuously worse deal from the State) and councilfolk should start actively campaigning for pro-OKC legislators.

Great news the donors are being patient and still committed to their pledges if the matching funds can be found.

It also sounds like the City is prepared to take it over, if necessary. That may be the best outcome.

Great news the donors are being patient and still committed to their pledges if the matching funds can be found.

It also sounds like the City is prepared to take it over, if necessary. That may be the best outcome.

How would that happen? Would the city buy it or something else?

As far as I understand it, when the city donated the land, it included a provision that the land must be used for this museum. If the state doesn't build the museum, ownership of the land and anything on it reverts to the city. As I understand it.

I'd almost rather see the City get this thing back for a reasonable sum, then figure out a way to get the necessary matching funds (city funds, bonds, corporate sponsorship, etc.), finish it right and then pocket all the revenue and have more control over future operations and development.

As far as I understand it, when the city donated the land, it included a provision that the land must be used for this museum. If the state doesn't build the museum, ownership of the land and anything on it reverts to the city. As I understand it.

The State of Oklahoma (legislators) will probably the funding with the upcoming 2015 legislature. Let's hope our museum private sector donors are still on board and committed.

Maybe there will be some funds left over from the MAPS III's contingency fund to address any shortfalls.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

I trust the city to do this right way more than I trust the state government to do it.

I trust the city to do this right way more than I trust the state government to do it.

Exactly.

And the City has the most to gain or lose.

I trust the city to do this right way more than I trust the state government to do it.

That's not a hard bar to cross. I'd also trust the city more with everything up to and including figuring out how to exit a wet paper bag.

Really, although leadership in OKC is far from perfect, it's light years ahead of everywhere else in the state, including Tulsa (although that seems to be changing a bit).

So, it's almost always best to be able to make our own decisions and stay as far away from all these other political quagmires.

If memory serves, this would already be resolved if Hickman was truly willing to serve as Speaker of the House instead of Speaker for the Republican caucus.
The Senate was on board.
The governor was on board.
The majority of the House members were on board.
The deal did not get done because the Speaker required that a majority of Republican members of the House, not a majority of the House, be on board.

This was the failure of one man to stand up and say today, I am the Speaker of the House, for all of Oklahoma, not just the HRIC.

From a political standpoint, what the Speaker did was fine. Members of both parties engage in this sort of political gamesmanship. That's the benefit of having the Speaker position. From a policy standpoint, I think this is a terrible move. The Speaker is flushing money down the toilet with this move.

The funding will get done next session.

Government by the very nature of its design is slow and messy.

Problem is though, when you purport to be the champion of smaller govt. making political moves that completely waste 3/4 of a million dollars means you should have to wear that hat quite publicly.

From a political standpoint, what the Speaker did was fine. Members of both parties engage in this sort of political gamesmanship. That's the benefit of having the Speaker position. From a policy standpoint, I think this is a terrible move. The Speaker is flushing money down the toilet with this move.

Seriously, "what the speaker did was "FINE"? Maybe legal. Maybe possible. But FINE? I don't care if every party does it, it is why there is such little regard for the integrity of politicians at all levels. There shouldn't be benefits to the speaker's position, but there damn sure should be responsibilities and statesmanship...especially if you yell the tea party mantra about integrity in government. Nobody should give this a$$ a pass on the petty partisanship.

Problem is though, when you purport to be the champion of smaller govt. making political moves that completely waste 3/4 of a million dollars means you should have to wear that hat quite publicly.

It failed by a handful of votes. It'll pass next go around.

Don't you think that at this point with at much PR as has been done on this, if the public actually supported it, there would have been plenty private financial backing already? It seems like after all this time, commercials, pushes, etc. that if the people wanted their money used on this thing, they would have given it already. Using tax money on this when there are so many things that need it for better things, just doesn't jive with me. Personally, I think the project was a bad idea from day 1. When tribes don't even contribute, you've got someone pushing something that no one wants.

The same designers that designed this project and the buckling skydance bridge designed the Central Park? I wonder how many issues it will have?

Don't you think that at this point with at much PR as has been done on this, if the public actually supported it, there would have been plenty private financial backing already? It seems like after all this time, commercials, pushes, etc. that if the people wanted their money used on this thing, they would have given it already. Using tax money on this when there are so many things that need it for better things, just doesn't jive with me. Personally, I think the project was a bad idea from day 1. When tribes don't even contribute, you've got someone pushing something that no one wants.

No, I don't think that. I could turn it around just as easily. If the public was really against this, don't you think there would have been a big public outcry against it, back when it was proposed? Or during any of the periods when the state was actually providing funding? It seems after all this time, commercials, pushes, etc., that if the people didn't want their money used on this thing, they would have spoken out already.